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Author Topic: The Professor from Hell
BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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All schools treat garduate students entirely different from undergrads. You can't use the treatment of MBAs as a comparion against anecdotes related to undergrads, in many cases underclassmen at that.

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Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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David
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Don Gato, so you're in business school and think a private university is a for-profit company? A private university is non-profit.

Do you think people and corporations would donate all of that money that private universities get so someone could make a bigger profit?

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The Spider in the Ointment
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Is the Professor from Hell any relation of the Demon Headmaster?

JK "Infernal Education" Will

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Don Gato
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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OK, this is what I get for posting so close to bedtime.

First of all, BeachLife, you're right that undergrads and grads are in a very different situation. The part I left off was that b-school is the most extreme example of a trend that's going on throughout academia.

quote:
Originally posted by David:
Don Gato, so you're in business school and think a private university is a for-profit company? A private university is non-profit.

[dunce] (me wearing the dunce cap)

Yes, I do know (or did know, at times other than 1 a.m.) that universities have non-profit status. The point I meant to make was that it was ridiculous to claim that said universities are uninterested in making a profit. (Try this: Apply for a university president job, tell them you have great academic credentials, care deeply about furthering the school's educational mission, but have zero fundraising skills. Then wait by the phone for them to call you back.)

And even more preposterously, you cited "useless" liberal arts classes as evidence that universities don't have a profit motive. First of all, I would dispute the fact that liberal arts degrees are useless. I was a history major, and I know that the critical thinking, communication and problem-solving skills I developed in college have definitely helped me in the business world. But one can reasonably disagree on that point.

What you can't argue is that the preponderance of liberal arts classes is somehow an "anti-market" phenomenon. I went to a major university with undergraduate business, engineering and nursing programs, all of which had a strong pre-professional bent and were extremely well-regarded. Yet the combined enrollment in all of those schools was less than half that of the liberal arts program. The reason colleges offer liberal arts classes is because people want to take them. You can say that the market is misguided, but you can't say that colleges aren't meeting demand.

Good luck with that for-profit university of yours. I'm sure it will be zooming to the top of the US News rankings any day now.

Don Gato

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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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I have an associates degree in Liberal Arts before my BA in Business Administration. I like to say, "I have a degree in Liberal Arts; do you want frys with that?"

--------------------
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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David
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Don Gato, I think the issues of liberal arts classes and for-profit schools are two different things. I just tossed in the no liberal arts idea as another feature of my for-profit school concept. There's no reason why a for-profit school couldn't also offer liberal arts classes.

My idea was that the for-profit school would only teach what you need to know to do your job when you graduated.

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Elkhound
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by David:


My idea was that the for-profit school would only teach what you need to know to do your job when you graduated.

An institution that only does that isn't a college or university; it is a trade school.

Liberal arts courses teach you how to reason, analyse, extrapolate, draw analogies, research, recognize patterns, form and test hypotheses, defend a proposition, refute a fallacy, and other intellectual tasks which are as valuable not only to making a living but to making a life as specific technical skills.

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"The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch

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Don Gato
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by Elkhound:
An institution that only does that isn't a college or university; it is a trade school.

Exactly. And while such schools certainly have their place, there is clearly not as much market demand for them as for liberal arts schools.

Don Gato

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Ace_of_Sevens
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Elkhound:
Liberal arts courses teach you how to reason, analyse, extrapolate, draw analogies, research, recognize patterns, form and test hypotheses, defend a proposition, refute a fallacy, and other intellectual tasks which are as valuable not only to making a living but to making a life as specific technical skills.

Not really. In my experience, those things tend to get you fired.
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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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As someone who just graduated, I will tell you that professors have not changed. Something about ten years in academia warps their brains. Although they were all undergraduates once, they seem to think that their class is the most important one you will ever take.
I will say that being a student at a technical university, in a technical major, I was glad to only have about 10 total liberal arts classes. I found them, for the most part, to be a huge waste of time, mainly because of the attitudes of the professors (most of which were not Ph.D.s) that they were somehow imparting wisdom upon me.
However, I did have some profs (full tenured Ph.D types) that had a passion for their subject, and an understanding that everyone in the class (besides the old man who gets to take the classes for free) was taking this class because it satisfied some GEB requirement. In those classes I learned and liked it.(and had snopes.com as a lecture aid)
What is my point?
I wouldn't get rid of GEB because there is so little of it that it barely hurts to take it, and I am not the only one who used GEB to pad my GPA.

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I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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Sister Ray
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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I am an English major. Therefore, I am the prime example of uselessness in academia. Liberal arts accomplish very little. They might be best called "entertainment." At best, they give amusement to a number of people. At worst, they are dissected in the hopes of finding some inner truth. This goes for film arts, theater, music, dance, and English.

The fields with real use to society are science, math, various technical and trade things, psychology, anthropology, sociology, philosophy, and history. Each one is unique and important. Science teaches us how the world works. Math is heavily entwined, because it powers science. Technical, trade, and buisness all help fill vital roles in society. If done properly, the final five also have smaller usages. Psychology tells us how people think. Anthropolgy tells us how cultures work. Sociology tells us how groups of people work. History can tell us facts of the past and present. (For convienince, I have grouped together history and political science/current events.) Philosophy can tell us how to live our lives.

Other fields are basically intellectual patting on the back.

Sister Ray

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The Organization. Adam Haseeb Memorial Pages. My library.

"There can't be a war on Christmas. Even Cambridge has decorations up!" - an observation I made

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Archangel
Spider Cider


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quote:
Originally posted by Sister Ray:
I am an English major. Therefore, I am the prime example of uselessness in academia. Liberal arts accomplish very little. They might be best called "entertainment." At best, they give amusement to a number of people. At worst, they are dissected in the hopes of finding some inner truth. This goes for film arts, theater, music, dance, and English.

The fields with real use to society are science, math, various technical and trade things,

rant warning

Palpably untrue. I scored my better legal jobs in large part on the basis of a good English degree.

More importantly The Head of my English Department was invited to speak at the graduation of my friends in the Commerce Department. Giving a speech on Dickens speech about "facts; facts are what must be learnt" (inexact quote) the general response was that this was the most valuable lecture in 4 years.

Personally and from observation the skills of critical reasoning, articulating an argument and written expression are practical skills that enrich life, utility and health.

By contrast, those with overdeveloped trade school qualifications almost invariably have thwarted and catastrophic personal lives.

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Elkhound
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by archyangel and sevastabel:


Palpably untrue. I scored my better legal jobs in large part on the basis of a good English degree.

[/QB]

I can't track down the source, but I remember reading in some lawyer's magazine that English is now the preferred pre-Law major.

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"The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch

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Archangel
Spider Cider


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lucky coincidence in my case [Big Grin]
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Don Gato
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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More importantly: Why should a decision you make before your 20th birthday determine your long-term career? I know lots of people who had so-called "useless" majors who went on to careers in law, medicine, business, etc.

Liberal arts is not vo-tech. College is a chance to study something interesting and exercise your brain. You have the rest of your life to be useful.

Don Gato

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