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Author Topic: I am a racist plantation owner who wants to kill all blacks
AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
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quote:
Originally posted by Elkhound:
Consider this--if whites really wanted to exterminate blacks, we probably would have done it a long time ago.

I think a case could be made that the evidence points to the extermination happening right now.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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TurquoiseGirl
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard W:
I was almost with him on the "global plantation" business - I started to think, OK, people are just overreacting because they don't want to acknowledge that there might have been a point buried there. Then it suddenly all went a bit insane...

Me, too. I was with him with the cigarettes (and in my mind, booze and the mass marketing of "gangsta" culture), but then things went seriously awry.

I also think he is playing into the hands of the very forces he is trying to fight-- not the mythical white cabal that is trying to kill off black folks-- but rather the corporate entities who don't care who dies or is miserable as long as they make a profit and keep us addicted to things rather than engaged with each other.

He does touch on some issues that are important in minority communities, but they are twisted into some sort of monstrous strange Hitleresque parody.

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Damian
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I am sick of this victim mentality. Surely the fact that he is allowed to say these ridiculous things in public and has not been lynched proves that what he says about "The Man" is pure BS.

In Australia, he could be prosecuted under anti-vilification laws. (Ironically, the only two people to be prosecuted so far are white guys.)


That's for my forty acres....I'll be back for the donkey

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"I always tell the truth. Even when I lie." - Tony Montana

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
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quote:
Originally posted by Damian:
I am sick of this victim mentality.


Care to expand on this? At what point does discussing history become espousing a "victim mentality?"

quote:
Surely the fact that he is allowed to say these ridiculous things in public and has not been lynched proves that what he says about "The Man" is pure BS.

Well, lynching isn't really something that "The Man" ever did as a matter of policy. But, yeah.

quote:
In Australia, he could be prosecuted under anti-vilification laws. (Ironically, the only two people to be prosecuted so far are white guys.)

I'm very glad we don't have such laws here. It would be the entire right wing hate establishment out of business. And they're damn entertaining.


quote:
That's for my forty acres....I'll be back for the donkey
It's actually 40 acres and a mule.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Damian
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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
quote:
Originally posted by Damian:
I am sick of this victim mentality.


Care to expand on this?



When people blame the condition of their life on things that happened many generations ago. There are how many million black people that live successful, fulfiling lives in America. They don't seem to harp on about injustices from 100 years ago. They got on with their lives.


quote:
That's for my forty acres....I'll be back for the donkey
It's actually 40 acres and a mule. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Damn. Keep the mule.....give me my 40 acres.

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"I always tell the truth. Even when I lie." - Tony Montana

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
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quote:
Originally posted by Damian:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
quote:
Originally posted by Damian:
I am sick of this victim mentality.


Care to expand on this?



When people blame the condition of their life on things that happened many generations ago. There are how many million black people that live successful, fulfiling lives in America. They don't seem to harp on about injustices from 100 years ago. They got on with their lives.


I agree that the century-old injustice is probably too far in the rear-view mirror to lament now, but what about injustices of, say, 40 years ago? Are those too old?


quote:
quote:
That's for my forty acres....I'll be back for the donkey
It's actually 40 acres and a mule.
Damn. Keep the mule.....give me my 40 acres. [/QB][/QUOTE]
By the by, Aussies weren't made that offer. If you want it, there is something you'll have to trade for it first. Think it's worth it?

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Damian
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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
If you want it, there is something you'll have to trade for it first. Think it's worth it?

200 years ago, my ancestors were clapped in irons, put on ships, and spent 8 months sailing here from Britain. They were made to work clearing the bush, making roads and buildings in some of the harshest conditions on Earth. The lucky ones were freed after about 10 years of this.

Am I entitled to anything? No, but I am enjoying the fruits of their labour.

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"I always tell the truth. Even when I lie." - Tony Montana

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
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See, the difference is, your ancestors were freed. Slaves' descendants were treated to another 100+ years of institutionalized discrimination until, just 40 years ago, they were finally able to, at least as the law was concerned, enjoy the fruits of their ancestors' labor.

I don't think the two are comparable, really. Do you?

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Damian
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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
I don't think the two are comparable, really. Do you?

Not really, no. You see, my ancestors were enslaved by the British, whereas the Africans were enslaved by Americans. [fish]

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"I always tell the truth. Even when I lie." - Tony Montana

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
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quote:
Originally posted by Damian:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
I don't think the two are comparable, really. Do you?

Not really, no. You see, my ancestors were enslaved by the British, whereas the Africans were enslaved by Americans. [fish]
Er, not exactly.

But weren't your ancestors actually imprisoned, as opposed to enslaved?

But, also, thanks for neglecting the important point of my post.

So, please, what about the victim mentality? At what point does being victimized become "having a victim mentality?"

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Damian
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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
But weren't your ancestors actually imprisoned, as opposed to enslaved?

They were exploited. The punishment did not fit the crimes, and only the fittest people were transported. Not one historian has ever said that those wretched souls deserved their punishment, and quite clearly, they were only sent here to build a new country. Sounds like slavery to me.


quote:
So, please, what about the victim mentality? At what point does being victimized become "having a victim mentality?"
When all the bad things in one's life are blamed on the injustice. Most people are at least aware of the terrible things that have happened in the past, but at some point, we all have to put these thing behind us.

Dr King, Rosa Parks, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela.....they all suffered injustice, but are remembered and revered for lifting themselves and "their people" out of the shit and pushing for a better future.

quote:
Originally posted by Martin Luther King:
But there is something that I must say to my people who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice. In the process of gaining our rightful place we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred.

We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence.

This is from a truly great man, trying to take control of his own destiny. [Smile]

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"I always tell the truth. Even when I lie." - Tony Montana

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
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quote:
Originally posted by Damian:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
But weren't your ancestors actually imprisoned, as opposed to enslaved?

They were exploited. The punishment did not fit the crimes, and only the fittest people were transported. Not one historian has ever said that those wretched souls deserved their punishment, and quite clearly, they were only sent here to build a new country. Sounds like slavery to me.

Meh...slavery was forever.

Please understand that I don't think either were just; I just also don't think that they are equal.


quote:
quote:
So, please, what about the victim mentality? At what point does being victimized become "having a victim mentality?"
When all the bad things in one's life are blamed on the injustice. Most people are at least aware of the terrible things that have happened in the past, but at some point, we all have to put these thing behind us.

With the exception of the individual in the OP, do you really know or know of people who do that?

quote:
Dr King, Rosa Parks, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela.....they all suffered injustice, but are remembered and revered for lifting themselves and "their people" out of the shit and pushing for a better future.

quote:
Originally posted by Martin Luther King:
But there is something that I must say to my people who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice. In the process of gaining our rightful place we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred.

We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence.

This is from a truly great man, trying to take control of his own destiny. [Smile]
Again, I think there are very many people who do the best they can to get along. Few people are really trapped in that "victim mentality" you are railing so against.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Canuckistan
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quote:
Few people are really trapped in that "victim mentality" you are railing so against.
I think you're right overall, Angl.

But I have met a few people similar to what Damian is describing. All in my university days.

These were the kind of people who were so oppressed that they considered me to be a homophobe. Why? Because I dared to disagree with them. They were the victims of an oppressive establishment, and if you dared disagree with them, then obviously you were part of the problem.

They were really annoying.

Really, really annoying.

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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Damian
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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
With the exception of the individual in the OP, do you really know or know of people who do that?

The overwhelming majority of Palestinians seem to be average people, going about their lives in a normal fashion, but a few of them keep blowing stuff up because of things that happened to their ancestors.

The same with Australian aborigines. A few of them seem to spend their whole lives trying to get back what was lost 200 years ago.

Northern Ireland....Feminists....Communists.....

quote:
Again, I think there are very many people who do the best they can to get along. Few people are really trapped in that "victim mentality" you are railing so against.
I totally agree. Unfortunately, it is the dickheads like the guy in the OP that seem to get all the media coverage. Any message that really needs to be spread gets drowned out by the crap.

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Steve
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quote:
Originally posted by Damian:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
With the exception of the individual in the OP, do you really know or know of people who do that?

The overwhelming majority of Palestinians seem to be average people, going about their lives in a normal fashion, but a few of them keep blowing stuff up because of things that happened to their ancestors.
No, they don't. I find Palestinian suicide bombers sickening, but we should be honest about them. They aren't blowing themselves up because of what happened in 1948.
quote:


The same with Australian aborigines. A few of them seem to spend their whole lives trying to get back what was lost 200 years ago.

Northern Ireland....Feminists....Communists.....

Communists live 200 years in the past? Feminists want to live then? People in northern Ireland want to live then? Huh?


quote:
I totally agree. Unfortunately, it is the dickheads like the guy in the OP that seem to get all the media coverage. Any message that really needs to be spread gets drowned out by the crap.
Actually the guy in the OP doesn't get much media coverage at all. I mean, I'd never heard of him before this. Had you?

Is the Australian media so bad that only guys like the one in the OP get media coverage? I have lots of trouble believing that.

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Damian
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve:
No, they don't. I find Palestinian suicide bombers sickening, but we should be honest about them. They aren't blowing themselves up because of what happened in 1948.

They seem to be blowing themselves up for perceived transgressions from 2000 years ago, not just 1948.

quote:
Communists live 200 years in the past? Feminists? People in northern Ireland? Huh?
These are my examples of people complaining about things that happened in the past. (Ok, maybe not so much the Commies).

There are a few feminists left that still blame everything on the patriarchal society.

The Troubles in Northern Ireland speaks for itself.

quote:
Actually the guy in the OP doesn't get much media coverage at all. I mean, I'd never heard of him before this. Had you?
No, I have not heard of him before. That is why my quote was :

quote:
Unfortunately, it is the dickheads like the guy in the OP that seem to get all the media coverage.
quote:
Is the Australian media so bad that only guys like the one in the OP get media coverage? I have lots of trouble believing that.
Geoff Clark, Germaine Greer and Sheikh El-Hilaly are three that immediately spring to mind.

--------------------
"I always tell the truth. Even when I lie." - Tony Montana

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Steve
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quote:
Originally posted by Damian:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve:
No, they don't. I find Palestinian suicide bombers sickening, but we should be honest about them. They aren't blowing themselves up because of what happened in 1948.

They seem to be blowing themselves up for perceived transgressions from 2000 years ago, not just 1948.
I've never heard that anyone was becoming a suicide bomber because of events 2000 years ago. I'm not even sure what transgressions you're talking about. What are they? What eveidence do you you have that suicide bombers are acting because of them? And why did they just start a few years ago?
quote:


quote:
Communists live 200 years in the past? Feminists? People in northern Ireland? Huh?
These are my examples of people complaining about things that happened in the past. (Ok, maybe not so much the Commies).

There are a few feminists left that still blame everything on the patriarchal society.

The Troubles in Northern Ireland speaks for itself.

But you specified a time in the past, and it's that specifiticity I was talking about.

Or do you think that people shouldn't complaining about stuff that happens in the past? Which would be kind of funny, because you're complaining about all these people complaining in the past. But hey, no doubt you have a better reason than those pesky women and Catholics.

quote:
quote:
Actually the guy in the OP doesn't get much media coverage at all. I mean, I'd never heard of him before this. Had you?
No, I have not heard of him before. That is why my quote was :

quote:
Unfortunately, it is the dickheads like the guy in the OP that seem to get all the media coverage.
quote:
Is the Australian media so bad that only guys like the one in the OP get media coverage? I have lots of trouble believing that.
Geoff Clark, Germaine Greer and Sheikh El-Hilaly are two that immediately spring to mind.

I really suspect your country's media deals with more than some a handful of people who discuss events from two hundred years ago. Or 2000 years ago. Or whenever it is that the people you complain about are complaining about.
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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
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I guess I never got an answer to at what point does being victimized become "having a victim mentality?"

--------------------
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Damian
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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
I guess I never got an answer to at what point does being victimized become "having a victim mentality?"

Do you even read my posts? [Roll Eyes]

I thought I was quite clear. The people I'm "railing" about are those that cannot move on from the past. The people who blame their shitty lives on what happened to previous generations.

--------------------
"I always tell the truth. Even when I lie." - Tony Montana

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Damian
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve:
They aren't blowing themselves up because of what happened in 1948.....I've never heard that anyone was becoming a suicide bomber because of events 2000 years ago. I'm not even sure what transgressions you're talking about. What are they? What eveidence do you you have that suicide bombers are acting because of them? And why did they just start a few years ago?

So you're suggesting it has nothing to do with them being dispossessed by Israel???

quote:
But you specified a time in the past, and it's that specifiticity I was talking about.

Or do you think that people shouldn't complaining about stuff that happens in the past?

Sure, you can complain, but at some point, you have to move on. Don't blame your condition today on the past. If a African American says his great grand parents were slaves, he can be proud that in 3 generations, his family have succeeded against the oppression to become business owners (or Chairman of the Joint Chiefs).

quote:
I really suspect your country's media deals with more than some a handful of people who discuss events from two hundred years ago. Or 2000 years ago. Or whenever it is that the people you complain about are complaining about.
The people I mentioned get an inordinate amount of coverage. Unfortunately, because of their ridiculous ramblings, they turn everyone off the real message.

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"I always tell the truth. Even when I lie." - Tony Montana

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Four Kitties
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quote:
Originally posted by Damian:
I thought I was quite clear. The people I'm "railing" about are those that cannot move on from the past. The people who blame their shitty lives on what happened to previous generations.

When you can show me that there are no more racists in the US, and that the long-term effects of centuries of racism have been utterly eradicated, then I will concede your point. Although huge strides have been made in the last 40 years, we ain't there yet. But do come talk to me when blacks are represented at all income levels, all educational levels, all housing distributions, and all healthcare quality measures in the same proportions as whites, and we can take up your point again.

Four Kitties

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Steve
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quote:
Originally posted by Damian:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve:
They aren't blowing themselves up because of what happened in 1948.....I've never heard that anyone was becoming a suicide bomber because of events 2000 years ago. I'm not even sure what transgressions you're talking about. What are they? What eveidence do you you have that suicide bombers are acting because of them? And why did they just start a few years ago?

So you're suggesting it has nothing to do with them being dispossessed by Israel???

I didn't mean to suggest recent suicide bombers has nothing to do with the original diaspora. But they wouldn't have happened if not for more recent events. But, of course, I don't think that suicide bombers belong in the same category as guys who complain on C-SPAN. He's harmless. They're not.

But I'm still not sure what you meant by events 2000 years ago.

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Damian
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quote:
Originally posted by Four Kitties:
But do come talk to me when blacks are represented at all income levels, all educational levels, all housing distributions, and all healthcare quality measures in the same proportions as whites, and we can take up your point again.

Four Kitties

We are, I believe, at a point where government policy and laws do not exclude non-whites from any of these things.

Your constitution does not guarantee happiness, only for the pursuit of it.

Desegregation of schools was a huge step towards this.

When I hear black people speak of the past, 99.9% of the time, it is with pride in how far they and their families have come.

I agree that there are big strides needed still, but at least racism seems to have all but disappeared from the government. (Nobody could claim tokenism for Condeleeza Rice or Colin Powell.)


(BTW: from what I know, I would take Ms Rice over Hilary for President any day).

--------------------
"I always tell the truth. Even when I lie." - Tony Montana

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Salamander
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quote:
Originally posted by Damian:
quote:
Originally posted by Four Kitties:
But do come talk to me when blacks are represented at all income levels, all educational levels, all housing distributions, and all healthcare quality measures in the same proportions as whites, and we can take up your point again.

Four Kitties

We are, I believe, at a point where government policy and laws do not exclude non-whites from any of these things.

Your constitution does not guarantee happiness, only for the pursuit of it.

Desegregation of schools was a huge step towards this.

When I hear black people speak of the past, 99.9% of the time, it is with pride in how far they and their families have come.

I agree that there are big strides needed still, but at least racism seems to have all but disappeared from the government. (Nobody could claim tokenism for Condeleeza Rice or Colin Powell.)


(BTW: from what I know, I would take Ms Rice over Hilary for President any day).

Yet black people in the USA are disadvantaged, not because the system disadvantages them now (in theory at least) but because it has in the past.

While there will always be the lucky and/or talented exceptions who manage to make their fortunes from nothing, most of us gain wealth slowly and over generations.

There is typically a lot of "following in our parents footsteps" that goes on when it comes to education & career choices, if your parents had been disadvantaged and limited then it may also end up affecting you, even if you don't suffer the same conditions they did directly.

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Jonny T
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Damian, believe it or not, shit that happened forty years ago, or a hundred years ago, or two hundred years ago, can have a direct impact on the present; equally centuries of prejudice, discrimination, or simply "traditional" values, do not disappear overnight with the signing of a new bill. People are not born a blank slate into a world where everyone is treated equally. And while past problems and social prejudice are not always the sole, or even dominant, reason for inequality, taking the "you're all equal now, shut up" attitude (paraphrased, just to prevent the "I never said that, cite?" routine) is insulting.

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Hello, I love you - won't you tell me your name?
Hello! I'm good for nothing - will you love me just the same?

Greetings from the dark side...

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abbubmah
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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But "previously disadvantaged" and "equal" when applied to a class of people cannot coexist. If the disadvantaged are given incentives to "rise above" the errors of the past, then they are no longer "equal". In some cases, they become "advantaged".

I think the issue here is, yes, a possible generational problem of living with discrimination, then passing the attitudes along. But, at what point does society stop paying for the past? If the "victim" attitude can be eliminated, THEN there will be true equality.

While I think the "you're all equal now, shut up" attitude is extreme, there is some merit to the idea. Some middle ground must be reached, though, between blanket handouts based on race, and doing nothing at all to help people. When there is no longer a need for anyone to say "you're all equal now, shut up" then we have arrived.

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Fundamentally Unfundie since 1975

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Canuckistan
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quote:
But "previously disadvantaged" and "equal" when applied to a class of people cannot coexist. If the disadvantaged are given incentives to "rise above" the errors of the past, then they are no longer "equal". In some cases, they become "advantaged".
[Confused] How does that work?

Rising above the errors of the past doesn't put them in a better position, especially since the errors of the past left them in a worse position to begin with.

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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pinqy
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quote:
Originally posted by Jonny T:
Damian, believe it or not, shit that happened forty years ago, or a hundred years ago, or two hundred years ago, can have a direct impact on the present;

You're not understanding the word "direct" then.

pinqy

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Don't Forget!
Winter Solstice Hanukkah Christmas Kwanzaa & Gurnenthar's Ascendance Are Coming!

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Jonny T
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Agreed, mea culpa. How about:
- identifiable
- measureable
- real
- real-world
- definite

take your pick, or insert your own.

--------------------
Hello, I love you - won't you tell me your name?
Hello! I'm good for nothing - will you love me just the same?

Greetings from the dark side...

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Damian:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
I guess I never got an answer to at what point does being victimized become "having a victim mentality?"

Do you even read my posts? [Roll Eyes]

I thought I was quite clear. The people I'm "railing" about are those that cannot move on from the past. The people who blame their shitty lives on what happened to previous generations.

I did read your posts. And quit with the eye rolling. It's juvenile.

I am asking what constitutes "the past." I am trying to pin you down to a fixed point in time when one stops being a victim to when one starts having a "victim mentality." For example, my friend's father was prevented from attending his home state's university's engineering program for which he was qualified except for the color of his skin; the state's "black" university did not offer an engineering program. Because of that, my friend's father was unable to pursue the college degree he wanted, though he did eventually receive his degree and became a high school math teacher.

Because of the huge disparity in salaries between engineer and high school math teacher, in your estimation can one make the argument that my friend himself was victimized by the racist policies that prevented his father, a member of a previous generation, from pursuing the degree path of his choice?

Events do not happen in isolation; their impact can reverberate down through generations.

So, let me ask a different way: at what point does victimization end?

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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pinqy
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I accept none of them, pending your evidence or argument. Conditions of our parents affect how we start out in life, but other than that the direction of our lives is our own. Our grandparents' suffering is not our suffering.

It's demonstrable that slavery does not have a direct effect on the current status and economic position of African Americans.

pinqy

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Don't Forget!
Winter Solstice Hanukkah Christmas Kwanzaa & Gurnenthar's Ascendance Are Coming!

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pinqy
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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
Because of the huge disparity in salaries between engineer and high school math teacher, in your estimation can one make the argument that my friend himself was victimized by the racist policies that prevented his father, a member of a previous generation, from pursuing the degree path of his choice?

One can make the argument, but it's not a valid argument.

pinqy

--------------------
Don't Forget!
Winter Solstice Hanukkah Christmas Kwanzaa & Gurnenthar's Ascendance Are Coming!

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
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quote:
Originally posted by pinqy:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
Because of the huge disparity in salaries between engineer and high school math teacher, in your estimation can one make the argument that my friend himself was victimized by the racist policies that prevented his father, a member of a previous generation, from pursuing the degree path of his choice?

One can make the argument, but it's not a valid argument.

pinqy

Why is it invalid? My friend's father's income as a teacher was insufficient to be able to put my friend through college. Had my friend's father been an engineer, he may well have been able to afford to send my friend to college (unlike Troodon, I do not think a parent has the responsibility to finance his/her child's education; I am just using this as a for-instance, though the circumstances are all factual).

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Damian
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
I did read your posts. And quit with the eye rolling. It's juvenile.

My apologies.

quote:
For example, my friend's father was prevented from attending his home state's university's engineering program for which he was qualified except for the color of his skin; the state's "black" university did not offer an engineering program. Because of that, my friend's father was unable to pursue the college degree he wanted, though he did eventually receive his degree and became a high school math teacher.
Your friends' father did not sit back and give up. He picked another direction and went for it. He refused to be a victim. This attitude would be passed on to his children.

quote:
Events do not happen in isolation; their impact can reverberate down through generations.

So, let me ask a different way: at what point does victimization end?

When you refuse to be a victim. By never giving up.

Nelson Mandela (for an extreme example) was a victim of a hugely unjust society, and he did alright.

My favourite quote is from Gandhi: "Be the change you wish to see in the world."

Each generation can make a small change to make the world better for their children.

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"I always tell the truth. Even when I lie." - Tony Montana

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
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I guess I don't agree that how my friend's father reacted to the segregation thing made him not a victim. He survived it, and he did well despite it, but he was still a victim of it.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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