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Author Topic: Arm Against 'Katricians,' Gun Dealers Tell Houston
snopes
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When the "Katricians" rise up in violence, Houstonians had better be packing some serious heat.

That's the inflammatory message of a new gun-shop commercial on the radio that gives Hurricane Katrina evacuees a vaguely alien-sounding name, and advises Texans to take up arms to defend themselves against crimes committed by the newcomers.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-guns18sep18,1,6511386.story

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Elkhound
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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I've said it before and I'll say it again, Texas has been more trouble than it has been worth. We should have left it to Mexico, or at least allowed the Lone Star Republic to remain independant as a buffer state.

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"The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch

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Major D. Saster
The First USA Noel


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Don't they have a law against that kind of speech in TX ?

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Desperate, but not serious.

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Griffin at the Maul
Joyeux New Sale


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There is nothing racist in the ad. He recorded it in response to a news report where an "evacuee" said, "if they [the government] stops paying, then the people in this neighborhood had better watch out, 'cuz I'm gonna get mine."

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Where are we going, and why are we in this handbasket?

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Major D. Saster
The First USA Noel


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I know he said nothing that is clearly racist, but I see it as an incitement to violence.

Of course, being a gun dealer, his goal is to spread a feeling of imminent danger so he can sell his goods. But he's going a bit too far, IMHO.

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Desperate, but not serious.

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Elkhound
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Major D. Saster:
Don't they have a law against that kind of speech in TX ?

The US and TX constitutions guarantee a little thing called "Freedom of Speech"; if one is only 'free' to say things that other people find offensive, how free is one? Freedom of speech is all the more important when the speech protected is contraversial or offensive.

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"The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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But we are not free to make speech that is an incitment towards violencs.

quote:
The store [the one with the ad in question] has always sold its gear with a sense of humor: Its website plays "Bad Boys," the theme from the television show "Cops," and advises, "Be polite and courteous, but have a plan to KILL everybody you meet."
I have a twisted sense of humor that is away from the norm, but this does not sound like humor to me. It sounds more like pandering to a "Rambo" attitude.

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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BoKu
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
...It sounds more like pandering to a "Rambo" attitude.

Ooh - I wonder if they'd sell me one of those Cliffhanger bolt guns?

[fish]

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Dreams of Thinking Machines
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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Guns don't kill people. The I-10 through Houston kills people.

--------------------
Obi Wan: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes!"
Anakin: "Um, isn't your last statement an absolute?"

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Delta-V
Xboxing Day


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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
But we are not free to make speech that is an incitment towards violencs.

But fortunately satire is protected speech...

--------------------
"My neighbor asked why anyone would need a car that can go 190 mph. If the answer isn't obvious, and explaination won't help." - Csabe Csere

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Major D. Saster
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Elkhound:
quote:
Originally posted by Major D. Saster:
Don't they have a law against that kind of speech in TX ?

The US and TX constitutions guarantee a little thing called "Freedom of Speech"; if one is only 'free' to say things that other people find offensive, how free is one? Freedom of speech is all the more important when the speech protected is contraversial or offensive.
We have freedom of speech, too, but if a swiss gun dealer made a similar "call to arms" (which BTW wouldn't be necessary in a country where almost every male citizen has his military weapon at home), he would have some trouble (we voted a law against incitement towards violence, hate speech, discrimination, holocaust denial and that kind of thing - it was basically aimed at neo-nazi groups). Freedom of speech should not be the right to spill gasoline on the fire... but OK, it would be too long a debate.

Get me right - I myself am a gun owner, and I have some serious iron at home (everything fully legal and registered). I'm also against banning weapons in general. But this yahoo is the kind of guy who gives gun people a bad reputation, and, texan-Wild-West-style humour or not, someone should tell him that the days of the Regulators are over.

If I was in Texas, you surely could meet me at some gun club, but I wouldn't be one of this dealer's customers.
[Wink]

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Desperate, but not serious.

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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quote:
Originally posted by Delta-V:
quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
But we are not free to make speech that is an incitment towards violencs.

But fortunately satire is protected speech...
Are you suggesting that this ad was satire? Or just making a general comment?

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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Elkhound
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Major D. Saster:
We have freedom of speech, too, but if a swiss gun dealer made a similar "call to arms" (which BTW wouldn't be necessary in a country where almost every male citizen has his military weapon at home), he would have some trouble (we voted a law against incitement towards violence, hate speech, discrimination, holocaust denial and that kind of thing - it was basically aimed at neo-nazi groups). [/QB]

So, you have free speech as long as your speech isn't offensive to anyone? What kind of freedom is that?

--------------------
"The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch

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Doug4.7
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by dreams of thinking machines:
Guns don't kill people. The I-10 through Houston kills people.

[lol] [lol] [lol] [lol]

--------------------
And now for something completely different...

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Major D. Saster
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Elkhound:
So, you have free speech as long as your speech isn't offensive to anyone? What kind of freedom is that?

It's the freedom of saying : "Mr. Jones is a piece of shit !" if you feel like it, but not: "Death to Mr. Jones ! Let's go and kill the bastard !"

Do you see the difference ?

I know Europe and the US differ on that, but I tell you it's quite easy to live with such laws.

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Desperate, but not serious.

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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Actually, you couldn't say "Death to Mr. Jones! Let's go and kill the bastard!" in the US either.

What you could say in the US is: "Mr Jonewitz was never in a concentration camp because the Holocaust is made up by the Zionist-cabal and their Jew-loving banker buddies to take over Palestine."

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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Delta-V
Xboxing Day


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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
quote:
Originally posted by Delta-V:
quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
But we are not free to make speech that is an incitment towards violencs.

But fortunately satire is protected speech...
Are you suggesting that this ad was satire? Or just making a general comment?
Of course it was satire. Do you really think he was suggesting you should have a plan to kill everyone you meet? He's playing the gun crazy paranoid for show, and it seems to be a sucessful advertising strategy in a state that takes it's firearms seriously.

And he's not telling you to kill everyone you meet...just to have a plan. So it's not inciting violence any more than making quips about hunting liberals...

"Welfare! Solar Power! No Nukes!"...."Blam"

--------------------
"My neighbor asked why anyone would need a car that can go 190 mph. If the answer isn't obvious, and explaination won't help." - Csabe Csere

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Major D. Saster
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Actually, you couldn't say "Death to Mr. Jones! Let's go and kill the bastard!" in the US either.

What you could say in the US is: "Mr Jonewitz was never in a concentration camp because the Holocaust is made up by the Zionist-cabal and their Jew-loving banker buddies to take over Palestine."

Ah . I see. I thought Iran was the only place where Nazis can express themselves freely...

BTW, the said law was accepted by popular vote. It wasn't forced on us by the government. Call this self-censorship if you want.

Back to our texan gun dealer. In Switzerland, he might say :

"Criminality is on the rise - let's put a gun in every home".

That is totally subjective, but perfectly legal. Although we *already* have a gun in almost every home. And one the highest suicide-by-gun rates worldwide. Not mentioning the occasional family tragedy. But then again, our crime rate is one of the lowest. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.

The parliament is currently discussing this. Some day, the swiss soldier may have to leave his gun (or only the ammo) at the arsenal between two periods of service. That will be the end of a legend.

Oh well.

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Desperate, but not serious.

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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quote:
Originally posted by Delta-V:
Of course it was satire. Do you really think he was suggesting you should have a plan to kill everyone you meet? He's playing the gun crazy paranoid for show, and it seems to be a sucessful advertising strategy in a state that takes it's firearms seriously.

And he's not telling you to kill everyone you meet...just to have a plan. So it's not inciting violence any more than making quips about hunting liberals...

"Welfare! Solar Power! No Nukes!"...."Blam"

Satire has the intent of convincing you of the opposite point that it seems to support on the surface. Satire is not about using existing attitudes or ideas to profit off them.

If this is indeed satire, then the gun store owner intends to convince people to not buy guns. While he might be doing that as an attempt to get people to not buy guns for Rambo-reasons, it doesn't seem to be working.

quote:
But at Jim Pruett's Guns & Ammo, in a strip mall on the northwest outskirts of town, the staff said business was booming, thanks in part to Pruett's ad.

[snip]

During the lunch hour on Friday, Pruett, 62, played a recording of his radio spot and sounded quite pleased with himself. "God, that's great," he said.

1) He wrote a satircal ad to try to get people to not buy guns for the wrong reasons.
2) More people are buying guns at his store because of the ad.
3) He is really happy with this result.

If he intended this ad to be satire, it failed. But he is pleased, so it is likely that the ad did exactly what he wanted it to do.

--------------------
IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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quote:
Originally posted by Major D. Saster:
Ah . I see. I thought Iran was the only place where Nazis can express themselves freely...

Nope. Nazis can express themselves freely here too. And those against the Nazis can express themselves freely as well. It is explained in the quote, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

quote:
BTW, the said law was accepted by popular vote. It wasn't forced on us by the government. Call this self-censorship if you want.

All popular vote means is that at least 50% + 1 of the population that voted wanted it. Self-censorship is when you prevent yourself from saying something. General you preventing others from saying something is full-on censorship. We believe that the 49.999% should be able to say something even though the 50% + 1 don't want them to.

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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Elkhound
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
We believe that the 49.999% should be able to say something even though the 50% + 1 don't want them to. [/QB]

Exactly. If I think that Mr. 49.99 is a NFBSKing ignorant sack of bullcr@p, I have the right to say so. And if he hauls off and punches me in the nose, I can sue him and leave him on the street in his underwear by the time my lawyer gets through with him. That's the American way.

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"The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch

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Major D. Saster
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Elkhound:
quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
We believe that the 49.999% should be able to say something even though the 50% + 1 don't want them to.

Exactly. If I think that Mr. 49.99 is a NFBSKing ignorant sack of bullcr@p, I have the right to say so. And if he hauls off and punches me in the nose, I can sue him and leave him on the street in his underwear by the time my lawyer gets through with him. That's the American way. [/QB]
Interesting. To a citizen of a country of seven millions inhabitants where the four main political parties (from left to right) run the government together and where the proverbial *helvetic agreement* that will satisfy everyone is the highest political goal, it's quite a fascinating point of view.

This may be why here, we have 1 lawyer per 1'500 inhabitants while in the US you have 1 per 350... and according to some humorists, by the year 2'200, everyone in the USA will be a lawyer. [Wink]

But OK, I'm just pulling your leg. I also generally believe in the phrase "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."... it's just that in most of Europe, *publicly expressing* some opinions is against the law. And I would never fight to defend a guy's right to parade down the streets in a brown shirt shouting "Heil Hitler". We already have enough of those guys who do it in so-called "private events" (generally skinhead concerts) where the law can do nothing.

So, I complete the voltairian sentence : "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it, as long as your goal is not to deprive me of the same right, destroy the democracy that allowed you to speak in the first place, send me to a camp for disagreeing with you and eventually kill everyone who does... Sorry sir, I'm not so dumb - we've been through this before, and I won't be the useful idiot whose passivity will help you make it happen again."

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Desperate, but not serious.

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Mouse
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Elkhound:
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Texas has been more trouble than it has been worth. We should have left it to Mexico, or at least allowed the Lone Star Republic to remain independant as a buffer state.

I've long since wanted to hand Texas back to Mexico but the trouble is, would Mexico want to take it back? Me, I would run as far away from that trainwreck as possible.

I've also wondered about giving Florida back to Spain but no way are the Spaniards going to want to get their fingerprints on that disaster.

--------------------
"You see? The mysteries of the Universe are revealed when you break stuff." Coop from MegasXLR

"I distrust who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." -- Susan B. Anthony

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LadyLockeout
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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I thought people on this board made it a point to not judge the entire bushel by one bad apple, so to speak?

Or am I missing some sarcasm? If so, I apologize.

--------------------
Katesune: We still can't find the way to albuquerque, and glisp won't stop to ask for directions.
Glisp42: Of course not. I know where I'm going, I just don't know where I am right now

Twisted Links

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PallasAthena
Xboxing Day


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quote:
But OK, I'm just pulling your leg. I also generally believe in the phrase "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."... it's just that in most of Europe, *publicly expressing* some opinions is against the law. And I would never fight to defend a guy's right to parade down the streets in a brown shirt shouting "Heil Hitler". We already have enough of those guys who do it in so-called "private events" (generally skinhead concerts) where the law can do nothing.
(emphasis mine)

Psst. I learned recently on snopes that skinhead != neo-nazi. In fact the neo-nazis basically ripped off the skinheads because they were too uncreative to come up with their own music and fashion statements. Skinheads come in all colors and refer to the neo-nazi groups as boneheads. Just to be nitpicky.

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"How do you make chocolate? You take dark chocolate, you mix it with white milk, and it becomes a delicious drink. That is the chocolate I am talking about." --Ray Nagin

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Mouse
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by LadyLockeout:
I thought people on this board made it a point to not judge the entire bushel by one bad apple, so to speak?

Or am I missing some sarcasm? If so, I apologize.

I was being facetious but I apologize if I offended you. I forget that humour doesn't always transfer well over the internet.

--------------------
"You see? The mysteries of the Universe are revealed when you break stuff." Coop from MegasXLR

"I distrust who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." -- Susan B. Anthony

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LadyLockeout
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Mouse:
quote:
Originally posted by LadyLockeout:
I thought people on this board made it a point to not judge the entire bushel by one bad apple, so to speak?

Or am I missing some sarcasm? If so, I apologize.

I was being facetious but I apologize if I offended you. I forget that humour doesn't always transfer well over the internet.
Apology accepted, but yours wasn't the only comment. Elkhound's at the beginning rubbed me the wrong way as well.

--------------------
Katesune: We still can't find the way to albuquerque, and glisp won't stop to ask for directions.
Glisp42: Of course not. I know where I'm going, I just don't know where I am right now

Twisted Links

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