quote:Originally posted by MaxKaladin: I'm convinced that some of them pretty much thought bullying was a good thing when it was directed against the "wierd" kids (like myself) who stubbornly refused to conform and be "normal" (because being "wierd" is a conscious, deliberate decision, of course).
I think that mentality does exist, maybe not at a conscious level.
quote: I was alway told that I should tell an adult if I was being picked on and they would do something but it almost* never worked. I would tell (being branded a 'tattletale', of course) and they would do nothing. There was always some excuse. Maybe, they didn't see it so they couldn't do anything about it. On occasion, they'd tell me I was exaggerating and I should just get over it. Perhaps they'd tell me that they really weren't being mean to me and I just didn't understand. Sometimes they'd try to turn it around and ask me what I'd done to provoke them.
IME, teachers and administrators are far more likely to see, and punish, the actions that bullied kids take when they're pushed too far.
DD, for several days, put up with another student calling her "psycho bitch" and throwing chewed-up bits of food at her during lunch. The same guy also confronted her once or twice on the way home from school, once threatening to get physical with her. Her appeals to adults had no effect. She finally got ticked off and threw a full water bottle at him. She was suspended. The boy in question (whom the water bottle unfortunately missed) was not suspended for the food-throwing or the threats. He was later expelled for some offense that didn't involve my daughter -- maybe he bullied a kid who wasn't weird.
Pardon my cynicism.
Oh, I have stories like that too. Again, I totally agree.
Like the kid who poked my son with the pointy end of a pencil all year,every single time he walked by to sharpen his pencil (in addition to other stuff)- and the teacher never saw it - and one day my son got fed up and decked that little asshole in the nose. Laid him out flat. (good boy!) ~ and just shows how bad it had gotten - this kid had never said boo to a goose in his whole life. I didn't even know he knew HOW to throw a punch until then.
Well, MY son got out of school suspension, the asshat got in school suspension (which consisted of watching movies and no penalty to the grades), and insult to injury, I sat there the next summer at the pool and saw this kid and his friends taunt my son about how THEY kicked HIS ass. Hello? wtf? And "showing" them that he could stand up to them didn't stop it either.
That was when I took him out and put him in a school that was not run by morons.
I agree that bullies are very good at being sneaky, sly, and able to stay out of trouble. My son was so disingenuous and unable to be sneaky and he was ADD and in outer space. Quite a delightful target. I'm happy to say, one of the kids who was meanest to him ended up in a very strict military school because he got SO awful that his mother finally had to admit to herself that her son was, in fact, a monstrous little cretin who needed some discipline.
edited.
-------------------- "Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit
(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad) Posts: 2397 | From: Texarkana, TX | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by lynnejanet: Welcome, StuckatDeadend. You are so right that bullying continues into adulthood and the "real world". I'm glad yo had the guts to write up your cow-orker. Did it have any effect?
Thank you, LynneJanet (and Al-luring White Canvas too). I refrained from doing anything about the bullying from this co-worker (almost all the bullying came from her) because I didnt want to get on anyone's bad side, and I didnt want to make any enemies at work. But after she asked me that question, I really didnt care anymore, and I realised I let it go on too long. I don't know if writing her up has had any affect yet, since I haven't really seen her since that day (I wrote her up sometime last week). I'll probably know this Saturday. And if I am on her bad side: oh well, I start my nice three week vacation the next day. Posts: 5 | From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
I'm taking an educational psychology class right now. In the text, there was a section on bullying. There was a survey of 8th grade students. 60% of them said they were bullied. Teacher of those students estimated the bullying at only 16%. Interesting to me because it suggests that the teachers really don't see the bullying (either it's done in a sneaky way or they don't realize that the "teasing" they see is really perceived as bullying by the victims).
I know I've posted hear before about my office. I could never fully describe how awful the environment was until I saw something about workplace bullies on one of the morning shows a while back. It led to to this site: www.kickbully.com that pretty much describes what the bosses are like.
-------------------- "My name is the symbol for my identity and must not be lost." Motto of the Lucy Stone League. Posts: 1815 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Jul 2004
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I remember being bullied once in 5th grade. The class "tough guy" had a problem with me. Maybe it was the glasses or the good grades, I hadn't yet become the smartass that I am today, so who knows?
He actually walked right up to my desk during class and said something like "Recess. You & me." I said "What?" and he punched me in the face and went back to his desk a couple of seats away from me. The girl I was sitting next to was shocked, as was I. It took me a few minutes for me to regain my composure (I managed to not let any of the tears fall out of my eyes).
The girl, I think her name was Patty, asked me "What are you going to do?" and I managed (in my best Dirty Harry voice, not an easy impression pre-puberty) to say: "Well, if that was his best punch, I can't wait for recess!" Just loud enough for bully guy to hear.
He came up to my desk again right before recess and said "Forget it. We're not fighting today."
We eventually became friends. I suppose I was a bit more forgiving as a young lad than I am now.
-------------------- Support you local community newspaper! CNN.com probably won't be covering your child's spelling bee. Posts: 609 | From: Rhode Island | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by LikeHeyScoob: The girl, I think her name was Patty, asked me "What are you going to do?" and I managed (in my best Dirty Harry voice, not an easy impression pre-puberty) to say: "Well, if that was his best punch, I can't wait for recess!" Just loud enough for bully guy to hear.
He came up to my desk again right before recess and said "Forget it. We're not fighting today."
Ha! Like, YOMANK Scoob!
-------------------- I've got a pen in my pocket does that make me a writer? Standing on the mountain doesn't make me no higher. Putting on gloves don't make you a fighter. And all the study in the world doesn't make it science. -Paul Weller Posts: 199 | From: Kalamazoo, MI | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by LikeHeyScoob: The girl, I think her name was Patty, asked me "What are you going to do?" and I managed (in my best Dirty Harry voice, not an easy impression pre-puberty) to say: "Well, if that was his best punch, I can't wait for recess!" Just loud enough for bully guy to hear.
He came up to my desk again right before recess and said "Forget it. We're not fighting today."
Ha! Like, YOMANK Scoob!
Never mind a YOMANK ,IOU a beer LikeHeyScoob
-------------------- Focus On The Family- An opinion group who think more about Gay Sex than gay people do- Rick Mercer Posts: 590 | From: Rawdon, Quebec | Registered: Nov 2005
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Reading stories like this, and reflecting on my own experiences being bulled brings to mind the whole "Columbine thing."
Having my daughters in the same school system I attended, I have noticed the administration taking a more active interest in bullying, and trying to thwart it. They have a peer counseling/mediation group that works with other students to try and resolve issues before they get out of hand. I think a lot of school systems have taken more notice of how the students interact with each other with all of the school shootings that have been happening recently, and I think that is a good thing.
Sadly the problems I have seen in my daughters' schools have come more from other parents than the children. One parent in particular has caused a LOT of problems for a little girl that had lice a few times (several years ago)- by telling everyone who will listen that the kid is dirty, has horrible parents, etc. and egging her child on to tease and avoid the girl at all costs. "Yuck cooties!"
Her daughter came down at the beginning of this school year and told my daughter "Ewww "T" is in your class this year- now you will get lice!" I happened to be standing in the door and told her that she was terribly rude and that DD actually thought "T" was a nice girl and looked forward to having her in her class. Thankfully she just left.
Parents like that certainly do not help the problem.
-------------------- "My Very Educated Mother Just Said Uh-oh! No...Pluto..."~ Steven Colbert Posts: 3256 | From: Somewhere in Ohio | Registered: Apr 2004
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I know that I was picked on during 4th, 6th, and possibly 7th, it's not that clear anymore. I did get in trouble, but it rarely stuck, although I don't think that my bullies got in any real trouble. I did file a police complaint, after they stopped me walking home, and spit in my eye. It stings. One of them would ram me into lockers between classes, and I finally got fed up and punched him with my left hand. A teacher who knew and liked me saw this, figured out what was going on, and I wasn't bothered by him again.
But I do think it has contributed to my desire to be well-liked, and a degree of sympathy I have for the nerdiest of kids in high school.
Posts: 121 | From: Charlottesville, VA | Registered: Dec 2005
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I don't know. It's my understanding that modern schools are absolutely petrified of liability these days. You'd think that would put a damper on bullying.
A school in our area recently went into lockdown because a student SAID the word "gun" on the campus. You hear about kids being suspended or expelled for wearing black clothing or drawing pictures or writing stories that some substitute interprets as threatening. Schools are banning games of tag because they consider them contact sports. Every time, when called on the deep stupidity of their zero-tolerance policies, administrators bring up liability issues.
But from reading this thread, it's starting to look like a student can have the crap beaten out of him in front of three teachers, a principal, and the superintendent, and nothing will happen.
So, if this is true, what is it about schools that makes the administration freak when they hear the word "gun", but do nothing about ACTUAL violence and abuse? Wouldn't actual violence open the door to far worse liability issues than imagined threats?
posted
Ben Who, that's a good question. All I can figure out is that some schools - like that one my son went to - is simply run by morons.
Who were probably bullies themselves and dislike kids who go around getting picked on, on purpose, cause of course it's entirely their own fault.
-------------------- "Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit
(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad) Posts: 2397 | From: Texarkana, TX | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
I imagine the schools see a liability in putting a stop to bullying too. If there's an actual fight going on, or one brewing, a parent could raise a big stink if the teacher tries to pull the bully away ("you have no right to TOUCH my son!!1"). Or if it's simple taunting, like spitballs and pencil pokes, and there isn't enough evidence, then the teacher is "just picking on my son."
Or in the case of New Miami near Cincinnati, where one of my friends taught for a year, plenty of the students could easily beat up the teachers, and they knew it. He actually told a few of the smart kids to ask their parents if they could transfer to another school, because they clearly couldn't work to their full potential in such an environment.
What I observed in junior high and high school was that otherwise pleasant kids could become pseudobullies as a defense mechanism. They may generally be nice people, but so as to avoid being picked on themselves, they'll pick on the next lowest person on the food chain. I was always amused when I'd be mocked by a fellow band student for getting good grades, only to see that same band geek get mocked in another class for the same reason.
I think the best was when a kid tried out for our academic team and proceeded to mock the captain of the team for being a brainiac. Uh... dude... this is the academic team. What did you expect, exactly? Thankfully, that was the only meeting he came to.
When I was in school, I had more psychological bullying than physical, and it's safe to say that it's given me a pretty generous paranoia in my adult life. I subconsciously start with the assumption that anyone I meet is judging everything about my appearance right down to my very cell membranes until I can sufficiently prove otherwise. And if that weren't bad enough, sometimes I'm right too.
-birdman
Posts: 1104 | From: near Cleveland, Ohio | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Ben Who: But from reading this thread, it's starting to look like a student can have the crap beaten out of him in front of three teachers, a principal, and the superintendent, and nothing will happen.
At my old middle school if you were the victim in the fight (you hadn't raised a finger in your own self defense) you would receive the same punishment as the bully. They assumed you provoked it, naturally.
-------------------- Obi Wan: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes!" Anakin: "Um, isn't your last statement an absolute?" Posts: 166 | From: San Antonio, Texas | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by dreams of thinking machines:
quote:Originally posted by Ben Who: But from reading this thread, it's starting to look like a student can have the crap beaten out of him in front of three teachers, a principal, and the superintendent, and nothing will happen.
At my old middle school if you were the victim in the fight (you hadn't raised a finger in your own self defense) you would receive the same punishment as the bully. They assumed you provoked it, naturally.
That may not have been the assumption. More likely it was that "it takes two to tango". Also stupid and unfair I grant you.
-------------------- If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr Posts: 18428 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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Let me just say this. I was in high school when Columbine happened, and a small dark corner of my mind was dancing a jig of glee about it. I'm not proud of it, but I fully understand the impotent rage one feels after one has been to everyone who is supposed to help in situations like that only to be brushed off.
I was bullied extensively, physically and mentally every day. It was an unusual day that I didn't receive hate mail. When the teachers on up to the principal tell you that there is nothing they can do and then punish you for lashing out a terrible rage begins to boil. I will be totally honest and admit that had I had access to guns at that point in my life, I probably would have been a newspaper headline. It's not something I'm very proud of.
quote:Originally posted by glisp42: Let me just say this. I was in high school when Columbine happened, and a small dark corner of my mind was dancing a jig of glee about it. I'm not proud of it, but I fully understand the impotent rage one feels after one has been to everyone who is supposed to help in situations like that only to be brushed off.
Does it make any difference to you that the two young killers were not bullied? Or at least not bullied in any way that would make sense of the rage they exhibited? They really were the ultimate bulliers themselves in the end.
-------------------- If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr Posts: 18428 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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quote:Originally posted by dreams of thinking machines:
quote:Originally posted by Ben Who: But from reading this thread, it's starting to look like a student can have the crap beaten out of him in front of three teachers, a principal, and the superintendent, and nothing will happen.
At my old middle school if you were the victim in the fight (you hadn't raised a finger in your own self defense) you would receive the same punishment as the bully. They assumed you provoked it, naturally.
That makes me think of a list of school woes by Mad magazine. One of them was "getting the same punishment as the hulking mongoloid who just cheerfully collapsed your kidney."
Irritates me to no end because even the cops recognize the difference between assault and self-defense. In real life, if some guy starts pulverizing you and you fought back, he would be busted for assault. Apparently the school thinks the only thing you're supposed to do is stand there and get beat up.
In real life, if people demonstrated the kind of bullying behaviour displayed at school that they do at work, then they would be fired, if not arrested. Yet it's allowed to go on in schools because apparently it builds character.
I was tormented throughout my schooling career. I don't know what the teachers thought about it--I was on fairly good terms with most of my teachers, because I've always got along better with adults than people my own age--but I think mostly they chose to be willfully ignorant. People have the remarkable gift for denying what is right smack in front of their eyes. Teachers are overworked enough as it is, having to play psychologist, cop, preacher of all religions without prejudice, and parent to a bunch of lazy surly kids all for a pittance.
Needless to say, when we read Lord of the Flies, I wasn't the least bit shocked by it. I didn't need to be told that kids were just as evil as adults; I saw it everyday, just by going down the hall. Anyone who weeps nostaglic for the idyllic time of childhood, was obviously never a child.
-------------------- "You see? The mysteries of the Universe are revealed when you break stuff." Coop from MegasXLR
"I distrust who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." -- Susan B. Anthony Posts: 2246 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by dreams of thinking machines: At my old middle school if you were the victim in the fight (you hadn't raised a finger in your own self defense) you would receive the same punishment as the bully. They assumed you provoked it, naturally.
That may not have been the assumption. More likely it was that "it takes two to tango". Also stupid and unfair I grant you.
To add another wrinkle to this, at my old school it was official policy that if you were attacked, you wouldn't get in trouble as long as you didn't hit back. (Or, more exactly, as long as an adult didn't see you hit back.) You see, when the bully is pinning you down against the locker and knocking the wind out of you, you're supposed to calmly walk down the hall and notify a teacher. Theoretically, as long as you didn't hit back, you'd get no punishment while the attacker would be suspended for five days.
That was bad enough, since it punished self defense and was ridiculously unrealistic about a victim's ability to get a teacher's attention until after s/he'd been beaten up. What's worse was that in reality, the victim almost always ended up getting suspended too, even if s/he had followed the rules and not hit back. It was just too much trouble for the folks in charge to, you know, listen to both sides of the story or talk to other kids who'd seen it happen and could have let them know that only one person was in the wrong. Besides, it was invariably assumed that both people were responsible. It didn't even matter if the teacher who broke up the fight knew both kids and knew - or should have known - that one of them wasn't a troublemaker. To this day, I'm amazed at how many people are attracted to teaching as a career when they have no respect at all for children.
Christie, about Columbine...that's a good point, but remember that when most of us first heard the news, we didn't know that the attackers weren't bullying victims. My first thought was that they probably were, when I heard the first reports of the massacre on the radio at work. And I recalled all too well that on occasion in high school I had felt like doing the same thing. I'm not proud of it either. But recalling what so many of us were expected to live with right under the adults' noses, I definitely recall thinking anyone who was surprised must have either been an unreformed bully or remembered nothing about his or her own childhood.
-------------------- Another lifetime I'd have fallen in love with you Swept away by my feelings, ashamed and confused But just now it's enough to be walking with you Let the mystery play as it will! -Lui Collins Posts: 2669 | From: Jouy en Josas, France | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Ramblin' Dave, quietly making noise:
That was bad enough, since it punished self defense and was ridiculously unrealistic about a victim's ability to get a teacher's attention until after s/he'd been beaten up. What's worse was that in reality, the victim almost always ended up getting suspended too, even if s/he had followed the rules and not hit back. It was just too much trouble for the folks in charge to, you know, listen to both sides of the story or talk to other kids who'd seen it happen and could have let them know that only one person was in the wrong. Besides, it was invariably assumed that both people were responsible. It didn't even matter if the teacher who broke up the fight knew both kids and knew - or should have known - that one of them wasn't a troublemaker. To this day, I'm amazed at how many people are attracted to teaching as a career when they have no respect at all for children.
The problem with that is that bullies often travel in packs, while their victims are often alone. So if the teachers decide who to suspend based on who other students say started it, then you will often get the situation where the bully, surrounded by his friends, starts beating the hell out of some poor student. Teacher comes along and breaks it up, and you have 5 kids (bully plus his friends) saying "Stevie started it!" and 1 (the victim) saying "He just came up and started hitting me!".
Generally, most of the crowd around any schoolyard fight wont actually have seen the start. They only noticed it when there was something to notice (ie there was a fight underway), so asking them who started it will either get a whole lot of "I dont know" (whether from genuine ignorance or fear of the bully), or "(victims name) started it" (either because the victim is unpopular or again through fear of the bully).
Not to mention the cases where an entire years worth of schoolyard taunts, petty thefts, vandalism of personal property and so on comes to a head when the victim of bullying turns around and smacks his bully upside the head. In that case, the victim DID throw the first punch, but that doesnt mean he wasnt also the victim.
You also cant go steaming into a fight between 2 kids and go "Right, you are the troublemaker, so you are obviously the one starting the fight. Suspended. You are a good pupil, so you are obviously the victim", because that way lies prejudging kids and splitting them into "Worthwhile" and "Never amount to anything", and lazy/bad teachers further victimising victims of bullying because their personal dislike of the victim has them believing that they MUST be thetroublemaker in every case.
So whats the solution? How do you find out who is the bully and who is the victim and find a way of punishing the bully without punishing the victim? If I knew that I wouldnt be here now, I'd be out making a mint on the lecture circuit or publishing a book on my foolproof way of dealing with bullying. The best a school can do is have an established and enforced anti-bullying policy (for my preference, one that gets the pupils involved rather than being the exclusive domain of the teachers).
There are no excuses for schools who claim "We dont have a bullying problem", because that is just burying your head in the sand. There are no excuses for teachers who think of bullying as just one of those things that happen. But it IS a very very tough thing to deal with.
[edited for spelling]
-------------------- This Space For Rent. Posts: 210 | From: Glasgow, Scotland | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:But recalling what so many of us were expected to live with right under the adults' noses, I definitely recall thinking anyone who was surprised must have either been an unreformed bully or remembered nothing about his or her own childhood.
I wasn't a bully, and I remember my childhood well, but it certainly surprised me. Nothing I remember would lead to me to expect that level of violence.
-------------------- "It's a perfect system...unless it screws up." -Biology Professor Posts: 495 | From: Orange County, CA | Registered: Oct 2005
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On Columbine: I remember a lot of the early media reports that were coming out said they'd been bullied. It was only later that we got a clearer picture of what had happened.
Posts: 716 | From: San Antonio, TX | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by redsnapperdragonfly: Ben Who, that's a good question. All I can figure out is that some schools - like that one my son went to - is simply run by morons.
Who were probably bullies themselves and dislike kids who go around getting picked on, on purpose, cause of course it's entirely their own fault.
Or they were bullied themselves and are threatened by the reminder of their own pain and vulnerability. Which is also a crappy reason not to help a child in trouble.
-------------------- How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black Posts: 8322 | From: Columbus, OH | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I recall that there was some rule or other that theoretically meant you wouldn't get punished if you didn't fight back. I remember putting that to the test one time when it should have been absolutely clear that I hadn't fought back since it was on a playground in front of a teacher but, of course, they said I must have done something to provoke it. It's funny how it was always me that must have provoked something. I got hauled off to the principal's office and given a whipping along with the kid who started the fight.
Of course, they didn't always punish fighting. I already mentioned the time a PE coach actually told me to beat up another kid. There was another occasion where I had a very public fight and nobody was punished. That happened after years of abuse by a number of bullies. Something happened that was just the last straw and I snapped. I had been eating lunch outside on some bleachers next to the building where the principal's office was. A certain bully and his cronies took my lunch, smashed my sandwich under his foot and poured my drink over my head. Like always, I somehow bottled up all my anger and frustration and went off to tell someone in authority like I'd always been told to -- in this case, I went to the nearby principal's office. I was brushed off, told nothing would be done, refused permission to call home for dry clothing and sent packing. I walked out of the building and the bullies were standing there laughing so hard they could hardly stand because they knew they'd get away with it. I just snapped. I pretty much thought "I've had all I can stands, and I can't stands no more!" and threw myself at the leader and let him have everything I had. I ended up chasing him down the length of the bleachers with all the kids shouting "fight! fight!" as we ran by. I pounded and kicked him whenever I caught up to him. I finally left him lying on the ground where he'd fallen off the end of the bleachers and told him to "leave me alone". He did, too. He found another target. I was never punished despite how incredibly public the whole thing was.
They did punish fighting most of the time, but they seemed to try to ignore things and let the kids just sink or swim on their own as much as possible.
Posts: 716 | From: San Antonio, TX | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
I don't for sure know why schools don't do more about bullying. I suspect in a lot of cases they just don't want to bother for many reasons. Besides the ones mentioned before (difficult to work out what actually happened, difficult parents, etc), I suspect that the whole paranoia about lawsuits might actually contribute to ignoring the problem. I suspect they may fear that acknowledging there's a problem may make them more open to a judgement against them than if they deny any problem exists, brush off complaints as harmless adolescent horseplay and otherwise pretend nothing is going on. I'm sure there's also a fear that acknowledging there is a problem will bring unwanted attention.
Plus, I think that there is a tendency to not believe the problem is really happening or to think it isn't as bad as the victims say it is. In my case, nobody wanted to believe what I was telling them. Everyone seemed to think I was just exaggerating and/or that I was leaving out all the things I was doing to provoke the bullying. It wasn't until one group of bullies made the mistake of pulling their whole routine, complete with pelting me with rocks while I trudged along trying to ignore them, in front of my grandmother (they didn't know she was there or they would have held off until there were not witnesses) that anyone believed me.
Posts: 716 | From: San Antonio, TX | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:As a tortured nerd in high school, the author sought his tough-guy father's counsel. His dad's surprising advice changed his life forever.
"Well, you're going to have to kick his ass."
-------------------- "Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle Posts: 14567 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote: At yesterday's hearing, school headteacher Phillip Wood said teachers had investigated allegations that Paul had been covered in food but found he was not the only one because there had been a "food fight" on the bus.
He added: "I do not think it was aimed at Paul uniquely. The problem is that what is high spirits to some children can appear to be bullying to others."
In other words, "it's not our fault the kid killed himself, honest". That has made me so angry. If *anything* is bad enough to have a child in tears and leaving the bus early and having his parents complain to the school, then something needs to be done, whether adults think it's 'high spirits' or not. That man needs to take a long hard look at himself.
i was bullied a bit. not badly, but a bit. I wasn't 'cool'. i think the only reason it didn't go further was because I was slightly odd- i answered back when they said things, and stood my ground, and i'd defend other people against them. i was quite outspoken and i think it freaked them out- but then it could have gone the other way and made it a while lot worse. What makes me feel better now is that the 'boys' (now men) who bullied me at school now come on to me in clubs, and i can very publicly put them down
Do you have any wine? All of this would go a lot smoother in an altered state of reality. Posts: 779 | From: Southampton, England | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mouse: Anyone who weeps nostaglic for the idyllic time of childhood, was obviously never a child.
Mouse, I don't have a signature yet, may I use this?
Edited because I didn't get it right the first time.
-------------------- "Anyone who weeps nostaglic for the idyllic time of childhood, was obviously never a child." -- Mouse Posts: 3 | From: Manassas, VA | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote: I don't understand this attitude from teachers, where they'd rather just not get involved. Were I a teacher, I know darn well that if I saw a kid being bullied so much that they were crying, I would not just ignore them.
Random new member... sorry for a late reply, but I wanted to chime in on a sentiment I saw running through here - "why don't the teachers do anything?" This past summer I worked as a TA in a K-8 school. I saw bullying going on, definitely - making fun of the ESL kids, picking on the effeminate boys, general 10-year-old girl cattiness. And you know what, I think I intervened maybe 5% of the time. This is that I was severely bullied throughout elementary school. On some level even I was afraid of the 14-year-old ringleader of a particular bullying session. The administrator of the school had to step in, and after seeing the way she handled it, I learned a lot more about how effective authority figures can change a group dynamic. It's not that teachers don't want to deal with it, it's probably that they don't know how. The experienced teachers by and large were better at spotting and stopping discipline problems, but I sure as heck wasn't. And we all know that skilled and experienced teachers are hard to come by.
Posts: 2 | From: Chicago, IL | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
There are a small number of kids who manage to get through school as neither bully nor victim. They tend to be popular but shy, but they are really cowards because they tacitly approve of the bullying around them.
I suffered up until 10th grade because I was clumsy, slow, smart (which boys were not supposed to be), and lacked the nice clothes or other cool accessories. That was enough to be the victim - you don't have to be "weird". Children are often petty creatures - why should we be surprised, because adults are worse.
I got beaten up by a total stranger in 9th grade and in the aftermath, when my parents complained to the school, both me and my "attacker" were told that if there was another incident, we would both be suspended.
I was still nursing huge bruises under both eyes and a nose that was very nearly broken. I was 13, and I decided to use my brain. I told the vice-principal that I would be compelled to call the newspaper and talk to the education reporter. This was obviously good material. I also told them that when we got home, I'd make sure that we get some good pictures of how I look, and that I'd bring in my camera just to get some pictures of the other guy. The VP was furious, but he had been squeezed. He retracted his threats, and begrdugingly admonished the bully. Nothing more came of it. Years later, when I was graduating and receiving my Governor General's medal as top achiever, I told the VP, flat out, that he was wrong, and that if it was me in my parents' place, I would not have stopped until he had lost his job. His behaviour was unforgivable, and I let him know that. I let him know that again at a reunion 5 years later.
But I was lucky, because in the years since I grew bigger - big enough to intimidate the bullies on my own. It all stopped. But not everyone is so lucky.
I got even with said bully years later, but not everyone is so lucky.
-------------------- "The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat Posts: 1587 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mouse: Anyone who weeps nostaglic for the idyllic time of childhood, was obviously never a child.
Mouse, I don't have a signature yet, may I use this?
Edited because I didn't get it right the first time.
Go for it. I'm very flattered.
-------------------- "You see? The mysteries of the Universe are revealed when you break stuff." Coop from MegasXLR
"I distrust who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." -- Susan B. Anthony Posts: 2246 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Jul 2003
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When I was a teenager one of my teachers said I'd fit in much better if I made an effort to dress and act like the other kids. I tried, and then the other kids told me that they couldn't accept me because I wasn't being myself. So in some ways you can't win.
I had one teacher in 5th grade who insisted that the girl who bullied me (called me names, kicked and hit me in the halls, and one time wrote "bend over" in my assignment book) had a heart of gold and that I was exaggerating.
I came home most afternoons crying, and was apparently at times suicidal.
I told my mother, and she ended up grabbing the girl's arm one day during a field trip and yelling in her face. This, of course, accomplished nothing but get me a reputation as a tattle tale and a whiner, and they made fun of my psycho mom after that.
During High School art class, my teacher (who was primarily an administrator and who only taught art class because he didn't think the art teacher was capable of managing a classroom with difficult children) spent a good 75% of every class in his office doing paperwork. While he was behind, the other two students in the class would chase me around the room with yardsticks yelling "Beatings and treatings!"
Getting my parents involved didn't help. Getting the teachers involved didn't help. Trying to fit in didn't help. Being myself didn't help. And you know what? Years of bullying have left me with major self-esteem issues. I'm continually convinced that nobody will ever like me. It sucks. Do bullies realize that when they pick on other kids, their words and actions will haunt those people for the rest of their lives?
Posts: 494 | From: Epping, Essex, UK | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:As a tortured nerd in high school, the author sought his tough-guy father's counsel. His dad's surprising advice changed his life forever.
"Well, you're going to have to kick his ass."
It took me a long time to learn that lesson. My father -- and pretty much every other adult in my life -- insisted that fighting was never the answer. I spent years putting up with bullying and trying the usual "just ignore them" type advice with little success. One day I just had enough. I'd "had all I can stands and can't stands no more", so to speak. I went berserk on a bully and, strangely, that bully and his buddies never bothered me again. I was bullied less and got more respect after that, especially since that fight was pretty public and there were lots of witnesses. I always It isn't a pleasant fact, but the fact is that sometimes violence really is the answer.
Posts: 716 | From: San Antonio, TX | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Silken Ray: When I was a teenager one of my teachers said I'd fit in much better if I made an effort to dress and act like the other kids. I tried, and then the other kids told me that they couldn't accept me because I wasn't being myself. So in some ways you can't win.
I got similar advice. I wasn't terribly successful at it for quite a while. I broke some of the subtle unwritten rules about how trendy kids were supposed to dress and got made fun of for it. (I hate unwritten rules. They're always the ones that screw me over.) Part of the problem was that my father insisted that my hair be cut short. He didn't insist on buzzcuts or crewcuts, thankfully, but it was far too short to ever be fashionable in the 70s and 80s.
Posts: 716 | From: San Antonio, TX | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:As a tortured nerd in high school, the author sought his tough-guy father's counsel. His dad's surprising advice changed his life forever.
"Well, you're going to have to kick his ass."
It took me a long time to learn that lesson. My father -- and pretty much every other adult in my life -- insisted that fighting was never the answer. I spent years putting up with bullying and trying the usual "just ignore them" type advice with little success. One day I just had enough. I'd "had all I can stands and can't stands no more", so to speak. I went berserk on a bully and, strangely, that bully and his buddies never bothered me again. I was bullied less and got more respect after that, especially since that fight was pretty public and there were lots of witnesses. I always It isn't a pleasant fact, but the fact is that sometimes violence really is the answer.
But my son decked one of his bullies - laid the little shit flat out on the ground with a big shiner - and it didn't stop them. In fact, as I mentioned, they apparently decided to spin the story and retold it as MY son being the one getting his butt kicked. Which, according to the teacher, himself, everyone in the class, and the principal who suspended my son for being the one who threw the punch, wasn't the case.
Honestly, I hate bullies, and I hope there's something quite nasty waiting for them if there's such a thing as judgement day.
-------------------- "Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit
(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad) Posts: 2397 | From: Texarkana, TX | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by redsnapperdragonfly: But my son decked one of his bullies - laid the little shit flat out on the ground with a big shiner - and it didn't stop them. In fact, as I mentioned, they apparently decided to spin the story and retold it as MY son being the one getting his butt kicked. Which, according to the teacher, himself, everyone in the class, and the principal who suspended my son for being the one who threw the punch, wasn't the case.
I also wouldn't be surprised if any given bully went and got a couple of his friends to kick any given child's ass as retaliation for embarrassing the bully in front of the whole school. After all, he's got his reputation to think about; he doesn't want everyone thinking some scrawny nerd beat his butt.
In the story First of Two linked to, the kid lucked out because the bully's 'retaliation' was to yell something about how his friends were skinheads, and apparently the other students weren't too keen on him after that. But in my experience, bullies generally aren't skinheads and rarely work alone. Winning a single fight wouldn't do much other than to make him more mad, much like swatting at a wasp. Is that kid going to carry that roll of nickles in his fist every day after that fight just in case?
-birdman
Posts: 1104 | From: near Cleveland, Ohio | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Unfortunately, oftentimes the worst bullies are those found in the home. They're also the ones among the least likely to have anything done about them.
As I've posted elsewhere, my sister physically and emotionally abused me growing up. My parents still refuse to admit that her behavior was anything more than a sibling rivalry I took too seriously, even after I've told them time and again how she contributed to the depression I still fight.
They're going down to spend Christmas with her family, and I'm staying home. I refuse to have any more to do with her than absolutely necessary until she makes a full apology for how she treated me. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening...she also refuses to admit she did anything wrong.
Posts: 213 | From: Point of Rocks, MD | Registered: Aug 2005
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