quote:A promising young woman British chess player taking part in a chess tournament in the Czech Republic has died after a mystery fall from her hotel room.
Jessie Gilbert, 19, fell Wednesday from the eighth floor of her hotel in the central city of Pardubice amid conflicting reports that she could had been sleepwalking and had suffered from depression.
Now why did CNN feel the need to mention that she was a woman chess prodigy?
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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A - The name is gender neutral and, like giving age, giving gender is pretty typical in news reports
and/or
B - A woman being a chess prodigy is rather unusual. Makes more of a splash and gets more clicks.....
However,
That sucks. Poor girl and poor family. Article said she was planning to go to Oxford to study medicine.....
-------------------- So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus: Posts: 3216 | From: Denver, CO | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
They probably feel it's sadder when a woman dies, and therefore it's more eye-catching to the reader. I doubt they meant because "it's strange that a woman would be a chess champion", if that's what you're thinking. But you never know.
-------------------- I believe I'm growing skeptical of cynicism. MyspaceNWNBoard Posts: 917 | From: Nashville TN | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I should imagine becasue there are few women chess champions, much like if it had been a promising male ballet dancer, they'd have felt obliged to mention gender then. it's what they do, ask Brangelina's adopted son Maddox, former model jools oliver & the 1001 other superflous qualifiers used in the press.
Back to the story, I find this odd, apparently she was playing well, there was no note & no change in mood, and yet she commited suicide. Somethign does not compute.
-------------------- once known as little miss
"I don't Pretend to be an ordinary Housewife" Elizabeth Taylor Posts: 2416 | From: London | Registered: Feb 2002
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Canuckistan
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My problem with it is that it almost make it sounds like the fact that she was a female was more important than the chess champion bit.
Almost like, "Ooh! Look at the woman chess champion! Isn't she special?" Seems kinda demeaning to me.
Ryda: Is Jessie really gender-neutral? Jesse, I could see, but Jessie?
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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Richard W
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posted
quote:Originally posted by wee wifey: Back to the story, I find this odd, apparently she was playing well, there was no note & no change in mood, and yet she commited suicide. Somethign does not compute.
Only one person seems to think she committed suicide - the others quoted apparently think she might have sleepwalked out of the window.
Posts: 8725 | From: Ipswich - the UK's 9th Best Place to Sleep! | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
Are we just talking about the line, "A promising young woman British chess player"? I think you're reading too much into it; they're just being descriptive. You might as well asked why they used the words "promising", "young", or "British".
(edited for spelling)
-------------------- I believe I'm growing skeptical of cynicism. MyspaceNWNBoard Posts: 917 | From: Nashville TN | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Canuckistan: My problem with it is that it almost make it sounds like the fact that she was a female was more important than the chess champion bit.
Almost like, "Ooh! Look at the woman chess champion! Isn't she special?" Seems kinda demeaning to me.
It is. But, then again, I would expect nothing less from mass media.
quote:Originally posted by Canuckistan: Ryda: Is Jessie really gender-neutral? Jesse, I could see, but Jessie?
I actually don't know. Amoung everything else, I do birth announcements for the paper, and I see names for both boys and girls spelled all kinds of weird ways. I wouldn't think twice seeing a boy being named Jessie....In fact, I think I might very well have seen that before...
-------------------- So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus: Posts: 3216 | From: Denver, CO | Registered: Dec 2005
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Richard W
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Nick Theodorakis: I think it's odd that someone mysteriously tumbles out of a window in the Czech Republic and nobody has yet used the word "defenestration."
NIck
It wasn't in Prague, though...
Posts: 8725 | From: Ipswich - the UK's 9th Best Place to Sleep! | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Canuckistan: Ryda: Is Jessie really gender-neutral? Jesse, I could see, but Jessie?
I actually don't know. Amoung everything else, I do birth announcements for the paper, and I see names for both boys and girls spelled all kinds of weird ways. I wouldn't think twice seeing a boy being named Jessie....In fact, I think I might very well have seen that before...
If you're a fan of Rick Springfield, you certainly would have.
-------------------- "Well, it looks we're on our own ... again."--Rev. Lovejoy Posts: 3572 | From: St. Louis, MO | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Canuckistan: My problem with it is that it almost make it sounds like the fact that she was a female was more important than the chess champion bit.
Almost like, "Ooh! Look at the woman chess champion! Isn't she special?" Seems kinda demeaning to me.
But it is unusual, and thus highlighted by the press. It'd be like a three legged dog making the news, do you seriously think they wouldn't highlight the dog's disparity in the limb department?
ETA: is that so, Richard? There was no mention of sleepwalking in the Metro this morning. How tragic.
-------------------- once known as little miss
"I don't Pretend to be an ordinary Housewife" Elizabeth Taylor Posts: 2416 | From: London | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I was just playing around with Google, looking for female chess champions, and found myself reading about the "Women's World Chess Championship".
I don't understand why we divide things between male and female that way. I understand with really physical sports (football, basketball), because men do have some natural advantanges in the strength department. But any time I'm flipping through the channels and come across something like "Women's Bowling" or "Women's Pool", I can't understand why we even have the division.
(edited to remove link that wouldn't work)
-------------------- I believe I'm growing skeptical of cynicism. MyspaceNWNBoard Posts: 917 | From: Nashville TN | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by 1958Fury: I don't understand why we divide things between male and female that way. I understand with really physical sports (football, basketball), because men do have some natural advantanges in the strength department. But any time I'm flipping through the channels and come across something like "Women's Bowling" or "Women's Pool", I can't understand why we even have the division.
But People are differently abled due to gender in other departments. In the two examples you use, spatial awareness would be a major pre-requisite, and as women are generally deemed to have better spatial awareness, they are actually at an advantage to the men.
-------------------- once known as little miss
"I don't Pretend to be an ordinary Housewife" Elizabeth Taylor Posts: 2416 | From: London | Registered: Feb 2002
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Forgotten Fay
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales
posted
quote:Originally posted by Canuckistan: Ryda: Is Jessie really gender-neutral? Jesse, I could see, but Jessie?
I've known a lot of male Jessie's.(And vice versa) It's a netural spelling I think. When I work with patients with this name, male or female, I always ask them to spell their name.
And I agree with her gender being placed because there are few women chess champions. Such a sad and questionable death... I hope they are REALLY looking into this Forgotten "Watches too much CSI and Law & Order" Fay
-------------------- "Smile for me when I cannot Smile anymore..." ~ Myself Posts: 174 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by wee wifey: But People are differently abled due to gender in other departments. In the two examples you use, spatial awareness would be a major pre-requisite, and as women are generally deemed to have better spatial awareness, they are actually at an advantage to the men.
Maybe, but I've bowled with mixed groups of friends before, and I've not noticed any real advantage that one sex has over the other. And chess? One sex *might* have a better brain for the job, but I'd like to think that the real champions earn it through practice and learned behavior. But I could be wrong.
(...and edited to fix quote brackets. Nothing is working right today!)
-------------------- I believe I'm growing skeptical of cynicism. MyspaceNWNBoard Posts: 917 | From: Nashville TN | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by 1958Fury: Maybe, but I've bowled with mixed groups of friends before, and I've not noticed any real advantage that one sex has over the other. And chess? One sex *might* have a better brain for the job, but I'd like to think that the real champions earn it through practice and learned behavior. But I could be wrong.
part of me agrees with you, and part of me also says, "well surely then there'd be no need for the para-lympics if one can overcome nature to compete against those more qualified to do so"
-------------------- once known as little miss
"I don't Pretend to be an ordinary Housewife" Elizabeth Taylor Posts: 2416 | From: London | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
As far as the spatial awareness, and other abilities like that, nurture is the culprit in ability, as is individual talent. there isn't a native gender difference in spatial reasoning ability or other mental reasoning tasks.
-------------------- So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus: Posts: 3216 | From: Denver, CO | Registered: Dec 2005
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Canuckistan
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posted
quote:Originally posted by wee wifey: But it is unusual, and thus highlighted by the press. It'd be like a three legged dog making the news, do you seriously think they wouldn't highlight the dog's disparity in the limb department?
Except that in this context, gender is irrelevant. It makes no difference whether she was a woman or man. The news is that a chess prodigy fell off her balcony and died. Not that she was a woman chess champion.
If she were the first woman to win a championship, or the first in X years, or the youngest woman to do so, I could live with it. Here, I just think it's trying to sensationalize the story, because, apparently, a chess prodigy falling off a balcony and dying isn't sensational enough.
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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Canuckistan
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quote:Originally posted by Jayguar Temple: If you're a fan of Rick Springfield, you certainly would have.
Touché. I'd completely forgotten about that, since I never wished that I had Jessie's girl.
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Ryda Wong: As far as the spatial awareness, and other abilities like that, nurture is the culprit in ability, as is individual talent. there isn't a native gender difference in spatial reasoning ability or other mental reasoning tasks.
Is that so? most articles I have read (including Spatial ability as a predictor of math achievement: the importance of sex and handedness patterns by Casey MB, Pezaris E, Nuttall RL. Boston College & A longitudinal study of predictors of spatial ability in adolescent females by Newcombe N, Dubas JS. Department of Psychology, Temple University) are still investigating as to whether it's nature or nuture- in fact (what with left/right handedness affecting spatial awareness & congnitive abilities) most appear to be coming down on the side of inate difference.
-------------------- once known as little miss
"I don't Pretend to be an ordinary Housewife" Elizabeth Taylor Posts: 2416 | From: London | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Ryda Wong: As far as the spatial awareness, and other abilities like that, nurture is the culprit in ability, as is individual talent. there isn't a native gender difference in spatial reasoning ability or other mental reasoning tasks.
Is that so? most articles I have read (including Spatial ability as a predictor of math achievement: the importance of sex and handedness patterns by Casey MB, Pezaris E, Nuttall RL. Boston College & A longitudinal study of predictors of spatial ability in adolescent females by Newcombe N, Dubas JS. Department of Psychology, Temple University) are still investigating as to whether it's nature or nuture- in fact (what with left/right handedness affecting spatial awareness & congnitive abilities) most appear to be coming down on the side of inate difference.
I should have said "there isn't a proven native difference." Problem with those studies is that they are done on individuals who have already been socialized, hence you can't make a nature-nurture distinction. The brain has already been shaped by socialization, and one of the strongest socializations is gender. You couldn't prove nature unless you did a study on humans reared in a completely gender-neutral environment.
-------------------- So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus: Posts: 3216 | From: Denver, CO | Registered: Dec 2005
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She was four years below me in school. I didnt twig it was her till I saw her picture in the paper. She was always going up in assembly to collect certificates and cups when she competed in tournaments.
-------------------- I am not taking lectures on physics from a man in tights. Posts: 236 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
I can't think of the last local news lede that didn't inlcude gender. It's always "An Elkins man was killed today in an accident," or "a Clarksburg woman was arrested for drug possession last night." I don't think there is much to read into a mention of gender. It would have been listed either way.
-------------------- "If I didn't see it and didn't know it was a real news report, I wouldn't believe it. I mean, how nutty can you get?"-Pat Robertson Oct 26, 2006. Posts: 2936 | From: Mean Streets of West Virginia | Registered: Feb 2003
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Canuckistan
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Elwood, I think there's a marked difference between saying local man/woman and man/woman chess prodigy.
Local chess prodigy would have sufficed. (The reason it's an issue is because chess prodigy is normally enough of a distinguisher that a mention of gender is not needed.)
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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Sara at home
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quote: Police were continuing to investigate the teenager's death amid reports that she had been taking medication for depression, the UK's Press Association said.
Either way, the medication could have been a factor.
-------------------- Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread. Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Canuckistan: Elwood, I think there's a marked difference between saying local man/woman and man/woman chess prodigy.
Local chess prodigy would have sufficed. (The reason it's an issue is because chess prodigy is normally enough of a distinguisher that a mention of gender is not needed.)
Yes, it would have sufficed, but different writers write different ways. I've seen a lot of examples of people diminishing women through phrasing, but I just don't think this is one of them. When you report the news, you're painting a picture. I think they did a good job in putting an accurate image in my head, right in the first line of the article.
Now, if it had been the headline rather than just those first "bold" lines of the story, I might agree. But the headline itself reads, "Chess prodigy death plunge mystery"... if they were going for sensationalism, don't you think they would have put it there?
-------------------- I believe I'm growing skeptical of cynicism. MyspaceNWNBoard Posts: 917 | From: Nashville TN | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:A woman being a chess prodigy is rather unusual. Makes more of a splash and gets more clicks.....
Perhaps, given the circumstances, the phrase "Makes more of a splash" might not be the most apropriate.
-------------------- /Troberg Posts: 4360 | From: Borlänge, Sweden | Registered: Nov 2005
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Canuckistan
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quote:Originally posted by 1958Fury: Now, if it had been the headline rather than just those first "bold" lines of the story, I might agree. But the headline itself reads, "Chess prodigy death plunge mystery"... if they were going for sensationalism, don't you think they would have put it there?
I would still accuse the writer (or their editor, depending on who inserted the reference) of sensationalism. Keep in mind that writers don't write their own headlines.
Oh, and Troberg:
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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Dara bhur gCara
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quote:The father of a child chess prodigy who plunged to her death from an eighth floor hotel window is facing trial accused of raping her.
Jessie Gilbert, 19, downed a cocktail of drinks with a friend before apparently throwing herself from her room, police in the Czech Republic said.
-------------------- This wrinkle in time, I can't give it no credit, I thought about my space and it really got me down. Got me so down, I got me a headache, My heart is crammed in my cranium and it still knows how to pound Posts: 2794 | From: London, UK | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
As a competitive chess player myself: far more males than females play chess. IMHO the jury is out on whether men are inately better at chess, but the numbers of female players is so much lower that almost inevitably the top women are not as strong as the top men (Judit Polgar being the one exception). Women's only championships, at the very least, give the women extra encouragement to play (and a less threatening environment), so are generally seen by the chess community as A Good Thing.
As for "female" in the article (it wasn't in the CNN headline): since far fewer girls play chess, saying "chess prodigy" would almost automatically imply a male, so saying "female chess prodigy" is fair enough.
In any case, it's terribly sad.
Posts: 225 | From: Adelaide, Australia | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
But the article was about her dying, not about her career. I'd understand "girl dies after plunge from balcony" or something like that, but saying "woman chess prodigy" makes it sound like that's more important than what happened.
Do you have any wine? All of this would go a lot smoother in an altered state of reality. Posts: 779 | From: Southampton, England | Registered: Nov 2005
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