posted
At least 15 young people dragged a motorist out of his car and kicked and punched him, causing severe head trauma, after he honked his horn to get them to move out of a street,
posted
I honk at people who get in the way all the time. Is there anything I can do to keep myself from suffering the same fate? Aside from not honking, that is.
- Pseudo_Croat
-------------------- "At all events, people who deny the influence of smaller nations should remember that the Croats have the rest of us by the throats." - Norman Davies, Europe: A History
God wants spiritual fruits, not religious nuts. Posts: 4578 | From: Sunrise, FL | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
In high school I was riding with a friend of mine. We approached a group of kids (guessing they were 7th/8th grade age) who were in the middle of the street on their bikes. He gave them the ol' double honk-honk to move aside. They stood their ground and threw their arms out in a "what are you going to do?" gesture. He backed up about 3/4 of the block and laid on the pedal to get the tires smoking...they moved to the sidewalk and let us know what we could do to our mothers.
I DO NOT suggest that was his BEST course of action, but in high school one doesn't consider that death for either party could occur. (Incidently, about a month later this same friend ran us into a tree after he lost traction taking a corner too quickly)
Mod mentallity is a scary thing.
-------------------- As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. Posts: 1679 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
That is crazy and scary! I honk at people for this all the time. For some reason it seems like a lot if kids like walking or playing in the street around here.
There is a little girl about 9 years old on the street behind mine who will purposely veer onto the street while riding her bike if she sees a car coming. I used to just honk, which graduated to honking and yelling out the window. I would have just not taken that street, but the way my block is, it's easier to get to work that way.
Anyway, one day she did this and I had had enough so I parked my car, got out and asked her if her parents were home. She said yes (and looked terrified, though I was acting and speaking calmly, not threatening her) so I asked her if she would have them come talk to me. I was surprised that she actually went and got her mom. I told her mother, very calmly and politely, what her daughter had been doing, and i said "I'm telling you this because if I had a child I would want to know if they were doing something this stupid. She's going to getherself injured or killed if she keeps this up." The mother thanked me for telling her and the girl has been riding her bike on the sidewalk whenever I see her now.
-------------------- Me: "He's 19? Uh oh, I bought him a beer." A: "You contributed to the deliquency of a minor in drag!" "Sweet spell check: keeping drunks off the radar since 1995."- IND GodRe-AnimateGreenPorkBush Posts: 3986 | From: Illinois, jealous? | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
What would happen if a motorist, threatened in such a manner, ran over a couple people in order to get away (assuming the doors were locked but the crowd was beginning to break the windows, etc.)? I wonder if a jury would see it as self defense?
-------------------- The technical term is narcissism. You can't believe everything is your fault unless you also believe you're all powerful.--House Posts: 2684 | From: Budapest | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Thanks Dogwater, I was worried it would end that way too .
-------------------- Me: "He's 19? Uh oh, I bought him a beer." A: "You contributed to the deliquency of a minor in drag!" "Sweet spell check: keeping drunks off the radar since 1995."- IND GodRe-AnimateGreenPorkBush Posts: 3986 | From: Illinois, jealous? | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by monkey: Lock your doors.
Good advice.
However, it's not difficult for 15 people of average strength to flip a car on it's back. They just have to get it rocking. Or they can just smash your window and get the doors open. Or slash your tires.
The point is that if you encounter a group of people who are determined to harm you, and they have you trapped, there is nothing you can do. Besides calling the police.
-------------------- Nico Sasha In between my father's fields;And the citadels of the rule; Lies a no-man's land which I must cross; To find my stolen jewel. Posts: 4912 | From: VA | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Little Pink Pill: What would happen if a motorist, threatened in such a manner, ran over a couple people in order to get away (assuming the doors were locked but the crowd was beginning to break the windows, etc.)? I wonder if a jury would see it as self defense?
I can't speak to the legal ramifications, but in reality remember what that motorist was faced with. Here is a 50 y.o. man with enough life and driving experience to know that if he gunned the motor there is a very good chance that he would KILL a young person. How many of us are prepared to kill someone, much less a child/teen?
I suspect that by the time that became a reasonable solution, it was too late to do anything. He must have been filled with utter disbelief.
-------------------- As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. Posts: 1679 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Mad Jay: The point is that if you encounter a group of people who are determined to harm you, and they have you trapped, there is nothing you can do. Besides calling the police.
Oh me oh my! maybe I should just carry a dagger - or better yet, a sword - with me whenever I'm in the car. That way, if something like that does happen, I could just start dismembering them.
- Pseudo (scared) Croat
-------------------- "At all events, people who deny the influence of smaller nations should remember that the Croats have the rest of us by the throats." - Norman Davies, Europe: A History
God wants spiritual fruits, not religious nuts. Posts: 4578 | From: Sunrise, FL | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Mad Jay: The point is that if you encounter a group of people who are determined to harm you, and they have you trapped, there is nothing you can do. Besides calling the police.
Oh me oh my! maybe I should just carry a dagger - or better yet, a sword - with me whenever I'm in the car. That way, if something like that does happen, I could just start dismembering them.
- Pseudo (scared) Croat
They could wrestle your weapon out of your hands, or you might hurt an innocent passerby
-------------------- Nico Sasha In between my father's fields;And the citadels of the rule; Lies a no-man's land which I must cross; To find my stolen jewel. Posts: 4912 | From: VA | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Think I've told this story somewhere her before, but this reminds me a lot of when my father worked at a school and got basically beat up by almost every 6th and 7th grader in the cafeteria at the time because he scolded a student. The little boy swung at him and caused the rest of the kids to jump in on it. Of course my father had to defend himself and ended up losing his job. I mean, I know my dad, and though he is harsh sometimes, he wouldn't hit a kid; in my 24 years he's never hit me. But kids today are kind of of the mindset that they can do whatever and think about the consequences later, I think.
-------------------- Licorice of the Lord! This is classy stuff...Should I be wearing a tie? Or, at least, pants? ~I'mNotDedalus Posts: 975 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Little Pink Pill: What would happen if a motorist, threatened in such a manner, ran over a couple people in order to get away (assuming the doors were locked but the crowd was beginning to break the windows, etc.)? I wonder if a jury would see it as self defense?
What a jury would see would be pretty tough to guess so I'll go with what the law says.
In Arizona law, the rule is that you can use deadly force on someone who is causing a severe threat to you. But if in using deadly force against a threat, you hurt/kill a bystander, justification is not a defense. So in law, you could probably be justified in running over those who were beating on the windows or hood. But if you ran over someone who was just in the way while other people did the beating, you could be in trouble.
-------------------- IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan Posts: 3694 | From: Arizona | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mad Jay: They could wrestle your weapon out of your hands, or you might hurt an innocent passerby
Not if I secured it tightly to my hand so the thugs couldn't disarm me. Besides, who would be dumb enough to try to wrestle a knife or sword out of someone's hands? They'd have to grab it by the blade, which would be extremely dumb (not to mention painful).
Besides, in the heat of battle, I'd still have a pretty clear idea of who my opponents were. An angry mob would be pretty easy to distinguish, eh?
So I'm still going with the sword.
- Pseudo_Croat
-------------------- "At all events, people who deny the influence of smaller nations should remember that the Croats have the rest of us by the throats." - Norman Davies, Europe: A History
God wants spiritual fruits, not religious nuts. Posts: 4578 | From: Sunrise, FL | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Little Pink Pill: What would happen if a motorist, threatened in such a manner, ran over a couple people in order to get away (assuming the doors were locked but the crowd was beginning to break the windows, etc.)? I wonder if a jury would see it as self defense?
This is sometimes referred to in southern California as the "Reginald Denny Oughta-Have-Done." He was driving a large truck, and got pulled out of the cab during the "Rodney King" riots. Nearly everyone I've ever talked to has said that they feel he would have been totally justified in just putting it into low gear and pushing right through them.
I'm not totally sure if it is "legal" -- but a prosecutor would have a heck of a time convincing a jury, at least in these parts.
Silas ("Snow tires? Those are for weenies; I have Flesh-Blood-and-Bone tires.")
Posts: 16801 | From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
On hearing of incidents like that, I always wonder what the effectiveness of paraphrasing Douglas Adams would be:
"Do you know how much damage my truck would suffer if I was simply to run over you?
"None. At. All."
Seriously, if a mob were beating on my vehicle in such a way that it was clear they meant me bodily harm and might well break through the windows, I don't think I'd have much hesitation about pushing through them. I'd probably try it gently at first, gunning the motor and honking to give them a chance to get out of the way, then rolling slowly...but if they stood their ground, well, I guess I'd find myself in court.
Oh, and Psuedo-Croat -- I have to question the effectiveness of a sword for defense within the confines of the average motor vehicle. A knife, sure, but a sword? Too awkward to manuever.
posted
Also, securing a sword to your hand so as to avoid being disarmed would probably interfere with your ability to properly operate a motor vehicle.
quote:Originally posted by Little Pink Pill: What would happen if a motorist, threatened in such a manner, ran over a couple people in order to get away (assuming the doors were locked but the crowd was beginning to break the windows, etc.)? I wonder if a jury would see it as self defense?
That depends. Are the people who ran over the "angry mob" Tom Hanks and Melanie Griffith?
Edited to laugh at the idea of carrying a sword in your car wherever you go. How many cars today come scabbard-equipped? Is that even an option? And if we're going to be arming car drivers with swords, why stop there? The 2005 Dodge Joust, with optional driver's side lance. Because sometimes traffic doesn't move fast enough without a little prodding.
-------------------- Give big space to the festive dog that makes sport in roadway. Avoid entanglement of dog with wheel spokes. Posts: 4267 | From: Seattle | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Little Pink Pill: What would happen if a motorist, threatened in such a manner, ran over a couple people in order to get away (assuming the doors were locked but the crowd was beginning to break the windows, etc.)? I wonder if a jury would see it as self defense?
It would appear in these parts that the verdict would be not guilty.Posts: 2064 | From: New Brunswick, Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Pseudo_Croat: Not if I secured it tightly to my hand so the thugs couldn't disarm me. Besides, who would be dumb enough to try to wrestle a knife or sword out of someone's hands? They'd have to grab it by the blade, which would be extremely dumb (not to mention painful).
Besides, in the heat of battle, I'd still have a pretty clear idea of who my opponents were. An angry mob would be pretty easy to distinguish, eh?
So I'm still going with the sword.
- Pseudo_Croat
By any chance did you eat a lot of paint chips as a child?
Posts: 524 | From: Metro Detroit, MI | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Echinodermata Q. Taft: Oh, and Psuedo-Croat -- I have to question the effectiveness of a sword for defense within the confines of the average motor vehicle. A knife, sure, but a sword? Too awkward to manuever.
I agree. Your best anti-mob weapon (IMO) would the the gladus, the short (20") sword used by the Romans.
-------------------- IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan Posts: 3694 | From: Arizona | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
There is no need to push the pedal to the metal in a situation like that, just drive through them at a fast walking pace or slightly faster until you are through them, then drive away and get the police. They can easily get out of the way, but it is very difficult for them to get you out of the car or attack you. They may kick the car, but the insurance company will fix that. Best of all, you will not get into problems for killing people, justified or not.
-------------------- /Troberg Posts: 4360 | From: Borlänge, Sweden | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mad Jay: They could wrestle your weapon out of your hands, or you might hurt an innocent passerby
Not if I secured it tightly to my hand so the thugs couldn't disarm me. Besides, who would be dumb enough to try to wrestle a knife or sword out of someone's hands? They'd have to grab it by the blade, which would be extremely dumb (not to mention painful).
Besides, in the heat of battle, I'd still have a pretty clear idea of who my opponents were. An angry mob would be pretty easy to distinguish, eh?
So I'm still going with the sword.
- Pseudo_Croat
There are many ways to get a sword out of your hand besides grabbing the blade . Anyways, if it comes down to a melee, who wins depends on the skill and luck. It's very unlikely that someone who is not trained in using a sword is going to defeat an entire mob by herself.
I think if you are really intent on fighting a mob, get some training in martial arts. Even then, most martial art experts are going to reccommend that you should try to run away from a fight.
-------------------- Nico Sasha In between my father's fields;And the citadels of the rule; Lies a no-man's land which I must cross; To find my stolen jewel. Posts: 4912 | From: VA | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Mad Jay: There are many ways to get a sword out of your hand besides grabbing the blade.
One of the more common is to wait until the blade is stuck into someone, and then push him aside, either wrenching the blade away or causing it to bind against his clothing, bones, etc.
The solution to that is to adopt the Roman Gladius and employ only short direct thrusting attacks. However, that tends to leave one open to attack from the sides; a nice free-swinging Cutlass is better when one is among a throng of enemies.
Actually, in the tactical situation described, grenades would probably be effective.
Silas
Posts: 16801 | From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Silas Sparkhammer: Actually, in the tactical situation described, grenades would probably be effective.
Silas
Agreed. Since this is a multiple enemy attack, any bladed or non-throwing weapon becomes useless if your attackers have access to projectiles (Rocks/bricks/bikes/trash cans). Or a real powerful garden hose.
Posts: 524 | From: Metro Detroit, MI | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Pseudo_Croat: Not if I secured it tightly to my hand so the thugs couldn't disarm me. Besides, who would be dumb enough to try to wrestle a knife or sword out of someone's hands? They'd have to grab it by the blade, which would be extremely dumb (not to mention painful).
Besides, in the heat of battle, I'd still have a pretty clear idea of who my opponents were. An angry mob would be pretty easy to distinguish, eh?
So I'm still going with the sword.
- Pseudo_Croat
By any chance did you eat a lot of paint chips as a child?
CryoWalt- YOMANK! You read my mind!
If one can't get away from mob while secured in a car, they won't have much of a chance outside the car- sword or no sword.
Posts: 687 | From: Grand Rapids, Michigan | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by TuFurg: If one can't get away from mob while secured in a car, they won't have much of a chance outside the car- sword or no sword.
How about a light-saber or variable-sword?
("The pen is mightier than the sword." "Show me your pen.")
Silas
Posts: 16801 | From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
My goodness.... what is the world coming to? I can't believe (yet sadly, not surprised) that these things happen.
While the article is not terribly clear as to whether the "honk" was a "beep-beep" or a "HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONK!!!", I still say that the behavior of this group of people was entirely horrible and unjustifiable.
Were I in a similar situation, I would lock my doors. Strike that, my car automatically locks the doors the second I put it into gear. But if a group of people, whatever age, made a motion to surround my car after a friendly "toot" of the horn (my horn sounds like Roadrunner got into some wicked helium, so I don't lay on it ), I would immediately put the car into reverse (if it was safe) and hightail it outta there. If they managed to surround my car and acted like they were going to break the windows or anything like that, I don't think I'd slam on the gas to try to run anybody over, but I would definitely start moving forward slowly, then a little faster, till they got the idea.
If, god forbid, I actually did run anyone over, I'd feel horrible, but such a thing would only happen if I felt a serious and imminent threat to my safety or my life... which is what I think the legal definition of "self defense" is. It definitely wouldn't be my first course of action, but it wouldn't be an option I would deny myself.
-------------------- They just don't make crazed, beserk robots like they used to. --Sheen Estevez, Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius
If I manage to post something swipe-worthy that you would like to make your sig, you may do so with my blessing. Posts: 2486 | From: East Stroudsburg, PA | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Silas Sparkhammer: How about a light-saber or variable-sword?
("The pen is mightier than the sword." "Show me your pen.")
Silas
She'd still have to deal with multiple rocks/bikes/small animals being flung at her.
Not saying it's impossible. But she'd have to be really really good. And fast.
Besides, she needs to check with Florida laws. Blades over a certain size are illegal without permits. Same with the light sabers.
Posts: 524 | From: Metro Detroit, MI | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Originally posted by TuFurg: If one can't get away from mob while secured in a car, they won't have much of a chance outside the car- sword or no sword.
How about a variable-sword?
Silas
Ooh..now that would be cool! That might be the best idea yet...I heard Walmart's going to start carrying those, she may be in luck!
Posts: 687 | From: Grand Rapids, Michigan | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by LEU: It would appear in these parts that the verdict would be not guilty.
That's an interesting case. This kid did what "Reginald Denny Oughta-Have-Done," killed an innocent bystander (presumably, one can never tell with 14 year old girls), and wasn't even convicted of criminal negligence, much less manslaughter.
Why bother with a machete if you have almost 2 tons of metal at your disposal?
-------------------- The technical term is narcissism. You can't believe everything is your fault unless you also believe you're all powerful.--House Posts: 2684 | From: Budapest | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
The problem is, that once the car is free and Junior is squished, instead of self-defense, you have a sudden case of Vehicular Homicide and 14 surviving witnesses who say you just gunned it and drove through the group...
Here's to hoping that at least one of the kids breaks when questioned, and admits the truth!!
The latest reports have the victim in this case doing better.
-------------------- Opinions aren't excuses to remain ignorant about subjects, nor are they excuses to never examine one's beliefs & prejudices...
Babies are like tattoos. You see other peoples' & they're cool, but yours is never as good & you can't get rid of it. Posts: 5622 | From: Jax, Florida | Registered: Nov 2003
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That is crazy and scary! I honk at people for this all the time. For some reason it seems like a lot if kids like walking or playing in the street around here.![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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You read my mind! 
