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RBCal
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Is it true or a conspiracy theory that George Bush, Sr. was in a meeting with Osama Bin Laden's brother when the attack occurred on 9/11?

quote:
The morning of the attack George Bush Sr. meets with members of the Carlyle Group in Washington. Bin Laden's own brother is at the meeting.
Bin Laden Meeting
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hoitoider
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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According to the Washington Post:

quote:
It didn't help that as the World Trade Center burned on Sept. 11, 2001, the news interrupted a Carlyle business conference at the Ritz-Carlton Hotel here attended by a brother of Osama bin Laden. Former president Bush, a fellow investor, had been with him at the conference the previous day.


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No man has a right in America to treat any other man "tolerantly" for tolerance is the assumption of superiority. -Wendell L. Willkie

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Richard W
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A conspiracy theory - surely it's quite well documented that he was reading a book about a goat to schoolchildren in Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Florida?

Bush's movements on September 11th

(edit) Well, OK - not a conspiracy, but it wasn't that day either.

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RBCal
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard W:
A conspiracy theory - surely it's quite well documented that he was reading a book about a goat to schoolchildren in Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Florida?

Bush's movements on September 11th

(edit) Well, OK - not a conspiracy, but it wasn't that day either.

That was GW Bush Junior. His father is Bush Sr.

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"The women who embraced in the wagon were Adam and Eve crossing a dark cathedral stageóno, Eve and Eve, loving one another as they would not be able to once they ate of the fruit and knew themselves as they truly were." - Lynn Cheney, Sisters.

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meanjelly
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Bin Laden has 40 some-odd brothers and sisters spread out among many mothers.

In my opinion, the meeting might be true we must not confused the terms "family" "brother" to the way we use these terms in the west.

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Education... has produced a vast population able to read but unable to distinguish what is worth reading.
G. M. Trevelyan (1876 - 1962), English Social History (1942)

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RBCal
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As far as I know "brother" means the same in English as it does in Arabic.

broth∑er ( brŭ TH ' ər ) n. , pl. -ers . A male having the same parents as another or one parent in common with another.

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"The women who embraced in the wagon were Adam and Eve crossing a dark cathedral stageóno, Eve and Eve, loving one another as they would not be able to once they ate of the fruit and knew themselves as they truly were." - Lynn Cheney, Sisters.

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diddy
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by RBCal:
As far as I know "brother" means the same in English as it does in Arabic.

broth∑er ( brŭ TH ' ər ) n. , pl. -ers . A male having the same parents as another or one parent in common with another.

Except that Bin Laden is widley considered the black sheep of the family. AS far as the family is concerned, hes no longer a member of it. They have condemed everything that he has done.

Hes their brother by relation only.

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But this image of Bush as some sort of Snidely Whiplash tying the fair maiden to the railroad tracks is beyond the pale. - Joe Bentley

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RBCal
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So the story is true, not an urban legend or conspiracy theory.

It still seems a very strange coincidence, however. Even stranger is that the brother was allowed to leave the country 48 hours later when they knew who was behind the attack.

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"The women who embraced in the wagon were Adam and Eve crossing a dark cathedral stageóno, Eve and Eve, loving one another as they would not be able to once they ate of the fruit and knew themselves as they truly were." - Lynn Cheney, Sisters.

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Silas Sparkhammer
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I defer to few, if any, in my hatred for GWB, but this isn't "news." The Bin Laden family is extensive and very rich; they made their pile in construction.

Judging them by Osama would be as unfair as judging the entire McVeigh family by the sins of Tim or the entire Kaczynski family by what Theodore did.

Silas

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hoitoider
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Their official line is that the Bin Ladens are above suspicion - apart from Osama, the black sheep, who they say hijacked the family name. That's fortunate for the Bush family and the Saudi royal household, whose links with the Bin Ladens could otherwise prove embarrassing. But Newsnight has obtained evidence that the FBI was on the trail of other members of the] Bin Laden family for links to terrorist organisations before and after September 11th.

This document is marked "Secret". Case ID - 199-Eye WF 213 589. 199 is FBI code for case type. 9 would be murder. 65 would be espionage. 199 means national security. WF indicates Washington field office special agents were investigating ABL - because of it's relationship with the World Assembly of Muslim Youth, WAMY - a suspected terrorist organisation. ABL is Abdullah Bin Laden, president and treasurer of WAMY.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/newsnight/1645527.stm



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No man has a right in America to treat any other man "tolerantly" for tolerance is the assumption of superiority. -Wendell L. Willkie

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meanjelly
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by RBCal:
So the story is true, not an urban legend or conspiracy theory.

It still seems a very strange coincidence, however.

Why? Rich people hang out with rich people, how is that shocking. Unless someone assumes that all A-rabs are terriorist.

Look at it this way, there are very few people in the world as rich as the Bush or Bin Ladin families. So why is it so shocking that a Bush would work with a Bin Ladin when there are over 40 of them in Osama's imedate family.

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Education... has produced a vast population able to read but unable to distinguish what is worth reading.
G. M. Trevelyan (1876 - 1962), English Social History (1942)

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RBCal
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quote:
Look at it this way, there are very few people in the world as rich as the Bush or Bin Ladin families. So why is it so shocking that a Bush would work with a Bin Ladin when there are over 40 of them in Osama's imedate family.
Sorry this is not correct. George W. Bush has a net worth of "only" $9 to $26 million.

GWB Net Worth

George Bush Sr. had a net worth of about $4 million when he left office. He is much richer now and makes at least that much per year.

Bush Senior Money

While this is definitely rich it doesn't rank anywhere near the billions that the richest people make.

The reason that Bush Sr. was meeting with Bin Laden's brother is that he was a senior advisor for the Carlisle Group. Bin Laden's family invested a lot of money into this company. Thus he "likely" was giving investment advice and using his influence as a former president for their gain (and thus the Bin Laden family's gain).

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"The women who embraced in the wagon were Adam and Eve crossing a dark cathedral stageóno, Eve and Eve, loving one another as they would not be able to once they ate of the fruit and knew themselves as they truly were." - Lynn Cheney, Sisters.

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Jason Threadslayer
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by RBCal:
As far as I know "brother" means the same in English as it does in Arabic.

broth∑er ( brŭ TH ' ər ) n. , pl. -ers . A male having the same parents as another or one parent in common with another.

"Brother" and "sister" also apply to children of one's wet nurse. Not a usage we have in English.

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All posts foretold by Nostradamus.

Turing test failures: 6

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meanjelly
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by RBCal:
quote:
Look at it this way, there are very few people in the world as rich as the Bush or Bin Ladin families. So why is it so shocking that a Bush would work with a Bin Ladin when there are over 40 of them in Osama's imedate family.
Sorry this is not correct. George W. Bush has a net worth of "only" $9 to $26 million.

GWB Net Worth

George Bush Sr. had a net worth of about $4 million when he left office. He is much richer now and makes at least that much per year.

Bush Senior Money

While this is definitely rich it doesn't rank anywhere near the billions that the richest people make.

The reason that Bush Sr. was meeting with Bin Laden's brother is that he was a senior advisor for the Carlisle Group. Bin Laden's family invested a lot of money into this company. Thus he "likely" was giving investment advice and using his influence as a former president for their gain (and thus the Bin Laden family's gain).

Yeah, but if you look at it in percentages, I bet my left nut, that less than 1% of the world population has over 1 million US dollars. Hell, I bet it is more like .1% and this .1% talk to each other.

--------------------
Education... has produced a vast population able to read but unable to distinguish what is worth reading.
G. M. Trevelyan (1876 - 1962), English Social History (1942)

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RBCal
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--------------------
"The women who embraced in the wagon were Adam and Eve crossing a dark cathedral stageóno, Eve and Eve, loving one another as they would not be able to once they ate of the fruit and knew themselves as they truly were." - Lynn Cheney, Sisters.

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RBCal
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There are over 6 billion people in the world, thus the chances that George Bush Sr. would be in a meeting with one of Osama's 40 brothers are

40/6 billion = 6.66666667 ◊ 10-09

This is a very small number and thus highly unlikely.

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"The women who embraced in the wagon were Adam and Eve crossing a dark cathedral stageóno, Eve and Eve, loving one another as they would not be able to once they ate of the fruit and knew themselves as they truly were." - Lynn Cheney, Sisters.

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Richard W
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quote:
Originally posted by RBCal:
That was GW Bush Junior. His father is Bush Sr.

Oops, I misread the OP - sorry.
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chillas
Coventry Mall Carol


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quote:
Thus spake RBCal:
There are over 6 billion people in the world, thus the chances that George Bush Sr. would be in a meeting with one of Osama's 40 brothers are

40/6 billion = 6.66666667 ◊ 10-09

This is a very small number and thus highly unlikely.

To the best of my knowledge, most meetings include attendees who are selected for a particular reason, and not simply people selected at random from the population.

--------------------
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Richard W
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quote:
Originally posted by RBCal:
There are over 6 billion people in the world, thus the chances that George Bush Sr. would be in a meeting with one of Osama's 40 brothers are

40/6 billion = 6.66666667 ◊ 10-09

This is a very small number and thus highly unlikely.

Multiplied by the number of people at the meeting (or conference). This could be thousands depending on the nature of the conference.

But like meanjelly said, you're not selecting people at random from the entire population of the world for this conference, as your calculation assumes. You're selecting from the group of people who have business interests in the Carlyle Group. This is a much smaller group of rich and powerful people. If the group has investments in Saudi Arabia (which it presumably does) and the Bin Laden family are powerful investors and businessmen in Saudi Arabia (which they are) then it's not such a coincidence that there was a Bin Laden at the conference.

(edit) Spanked by chillas...

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RBCal
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by meanjelly:
Yeah, but if you look at it in percentages, I bet my left nut, that less than 1% of the world population has over 1 million US dollars. Hell, I bet it is more like .1% and this .1% talk to each other.

0.1% of 6 billion is 6 million. Thus:

40/6 million = 6.66666667 ◊ 10-06

or ~7 chances in a million

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"The women who embraced in the wagon were Adam and Eve crossing a dark cathedral stageóno, Eve and Eve, loving one another as they would not be able to once they ate of the fruit and knew themselves as they truly were." - Lynn Cheney, Sisters.

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chillas
Coventry Mall Carol


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Wait, let me check...

hmm

No, still not relevant.

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Come on, come on - spin a little tighter
Come on, come on - and the world's a little brighter


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Silas Sparkhammer
I Saw V-Chips Come Sailing In


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Almost none of us actually exist...since the odds of our mothers meeting our fathers is only one in several billion...

Silas

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Dive_Cecil
I Saw Three Shipments


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Well of course (by those odds) we do not exist and this whole 9/11/Osama Bin Laden thing is just a ruse by the computers so we will quit looking for the ONE.
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RBCal
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Sorry, but mathematical that's not correct. Since there are about 3 billion men and 3 billion women, your father or mother had a 50% chance of meeting someone of the opposite sex.
Why they chose that particular person to marry, no one knows.

--------------------
"The women who embraced in the wagon were Adam and Eve crossing a dark cathedral stageóno, Eve and Eve, loving one another as they would not be able to once they ate of the fruit and knew themselves as they truly were." - Lynn Cheney, Sisters.

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chillas
Coventry Mall Carol


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quote:
Originally posted by RBCal:
Sorry, but mathematical that's not correct. Since there are about 3 billion men and 3 billion women, your father or mother had a 50% chance of meeting someone of the opposite sex.

Faulty logic. The issue is not if they each met someone, it's that they met each other. The odds of any two people chosen at random meeting each other approaches zero. Therefore, as Silas points out, the odds that each of our fathers met our mothers is so low that it's pretty much impossible for any of us to exist.

And it still is not relevant.

--------------------
Come on, come on - spin a little tighter
Come on, come on - and the world's a little brighter


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RBCal
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Sorry, wrong again. You are estimating the odds of one person meeting another AFTER they already have met and having a child. The odds of this happening are 100% since it has already occurred.

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"The women who embraced in the wagon were Adam and Eve crossing a dark cathedral stageóno, Eve and Eve, loving one another as they would not be able to once they ate of the fruit and knew themselves as they truly were." - Lynn Cheney, Sisters.

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Richard W
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Yes, and you're estimating the chances of Bush Snr. and Osama Bin Laden's brother being at the same conference AFTER they've already been at the same conference.

Plus, like chillas said, it still isn't relevant because the people at the conference weren't randomly selected.

If anything, the unlikely thing is that a member of a rich and powerful Saudi family with business links to an American company that employs Bush Snr. should become the world's number one most wanted terrorist, not that a member of a rich and powerful Saudi family with business links to an American company that employs Bush Snr. should happen to be at the same conference as Bush Snr.

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RBCal
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I didn't start the statistics comparison, mean jelly did:

quote:
Yeah, but if you look at it in percentages, I bet my left nut, that less than 1% of the world population has over 1 million US dollars. Hell, I bet it is more like .1% and this .1% talk to each other.
I was merely stating that 6 million people is still a lot of people and I am sure they don't all know each other and hang out together.

It's true that rich people do seek out influential people. However, not many have relatives who are the world's number one wanted man (only 40 apparently).

--------------------
"The women who embraced in the wagon were Adam and Eve crossing a dark cathedral stageóno, Eve and Eve, loving one another as they would not be able to once they ate of the fruit and knew themselves as they truly were." - Lynn Cheney, Sisters.

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chillas
Coventry Mall Carol


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If you don't understand the argument, that's fine, just say you don't.

And meanjelly's statement was relevant.

--------------------
Come on, come on - spin a little tighter
Come on, come on - and the world's a little brighter


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RBCal
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quote:
Originally posted by chillas:
If you don't understand the argument, that's fine, just say you don't.

And meanjelly's statement was relevant.

Ok, all 6 million people do know each other? Actually, there are over 8 million people with a net worth of over a million dollars, I guess they all hang out and party together.

--------------------
"The women who embraced in the wagon were Adam and Eve crossing a dark cathedral stageóno, Eve and Eve, loving one another as they would not be able to once they ate of the fruit and knew themselves as they truly were." - Lynn Cheney, Sisters.

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DemonWolf
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quote:
Originally posted by RBCal:
quote:
Originally posted by chillas:
If you don't understand the argument, that's fine, just say you don't.

And meanjelly's statement was relevant.

Ok, all 6 million people do know each other? Actually, there are over 8 million people with a net worth of over a million dollars, I guess they all hang out and party together.
Of that 8, how many have made their money through oil? Would it be likely that people in the same industry might know each other and may potentially end up attending the same conferences? The fact that members of two oil-wealthy families happened to be at the same conference in not surprising.
Not if both had attended the same Star Trek convention, I'd be amazed.

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IMJW-052804

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RBCal
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The Bin Laden family did not make their fortune from oil. The Saudi Binladen Group was founded by Osama's father. It is worth about $5 Billion and nearly all of its money was made from construction.

--------------------
"The women who embraced in the wagon were Adam and Eve crossing a dark cathedral stageóno, Eve and Eve, loving one another as they would not be able to once they ate of the fruit and knew themselves as they truly were." - Lynn Cheney, Sisters.

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DemonWolf
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The family didn't, but do you know what the brother does for a living? Being a citizen of one of the largest oil producing countries on the planet would make certain jobs pretty likely.

--------------------
Friends are like skittles: they come in many colors, and some are fruity!

IMJW-052804

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RBCal
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quote:
Originally posted by DemonWolf:
The family didn't, but do you know what the brother does for a living? Being a citizen of one of the largest oil producing countries on the planet would make certain jobs pretty likely.

Assuming that all Arabs are millionaire oil businessmen or terrorists is as racist as stereotyping all people who voted for Bush as illiterate redneck farmers.
The family's business is the largest construction company in the Arab world, not oil.

The following is from the New Yorker.
quote:
Until late last month, the family had a stake amounting to two million dollars in the Washington-based Carlyle Group, a private equity firm with a large interest in defense contracting. The Carlyle Group is known for its politically connected executives such as former President George H. W. Bush, former Secretary of State James Baker, and former British Prime Minister John Major. In the nineteen-nineties, both Bush and Baker visited the bin Laden family when they were prospecting for business in Saudi Arabia. The chairman of the firm is former Defense Secretary Frank Carlucci, who has been a trusted friend of the current Defense Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, since their days on the Princeton wrestling team. Sources inside the firm suggest that there was a spirited discussion among the partners about whether to sever connections with the bin Ladens, with some believing that to penalize the family for guilt by association was, as one put it, "monstrous." But the prospect of President Bush's father being in business with the half brother of Osama bin Laden was politically untenable, and, when "the irony became too much," as one insider in the firm put it, the bin Ladens recouped their initial investment, plus five hundred thousand dollars.
New Yorker

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"The women who embraced in the wagon were Adam and Eve crossing a dark cathedral stageóno, Eve and Eve, loving one another as they would not be able to once they ate of the fruit and knew themselves as they truly were." - Lynn Cheney, Sisters.

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Republican
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From what I understand, Osama's father is a polygamist, and Osama has many siblings as well as half-siblings.

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I'm a rumour weed.

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