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Author Topic: Don't you have a word for...?
Ciara...
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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The title pretty much says it all. Words I know that I can't find a good/proper translation for in English.

I originally had a list of three words but I managed to figure one out by myself (kväljning = nauseated) and the other one decided to part ways with my memory so I guess I'll just post my one remaining word:

Kallsup - My dictionary translates "(I got a) kallsup" to "I swallowed a lot of cold water". Although 'kall' means 'cold' that translation is a bit faulty. My all-Swedish dictionary explains it as: a gulp of water that a bather accidentally inhales/intakes. Mine are usually followed by aching in the back of my head, my left eye and nostril, and in my throat. Is there really not an English word for this?

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Double Latte
Happy Holly Days


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I don't think we have a word for that particular bit of water. We would just say "I swallowed (or inhaled) some water".

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Syllavus
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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I usually say, "Went down the wrong pipe!" meaning went into the lungs instead of into the stomach. Double Latte is right though, there's no specific word for that one particular thing that happens. It sure feels awful though!

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Spam & Cookies-mmm
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Your description of the symptoms sounds more like a "brain freeze" (such as from eating ice cream too fast) than an inhalation of water while swimming. Though I suppose in Sweden, the swimming water is generally colder than in Florida, and maybe you'd get a different effect than we do.

I don't know if there's a more mature word for brain freeze.

article

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Rhiandmoi
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I think medically it is called aspiration, usually caused by a swallowing disorder or accidentally breathing when one should be swallowing. But we don't have an everyday word for that.

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I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

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Morrison's Lament
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Weltsmerz, Zeitgeist, Schadenfreude, Fahrvergnuegen [Big Grin]

They can be defined, but not translated in a word...

--- G.

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Fusca 1976
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Morrison's Lament:
Weltsmerz, Zeitgeist, Schadenfreude, Fahrvergnuegen [Big Grin]

They can be defined, but not translated in a word...

Ah, but Germans cheat.

That should be,

Welt Smerz, Zeit Geist, schaden Freude, and, no, I can't fathom how to parse Fahrvergnuegen, but I am sure it is at least two different words combined.

Luís "justlikethatforinstance" Henrique

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Tokugawa Bakayasu - Shoguns 50% Off
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quote:
Originally posted by LH in a Message Board with a rant:

I can't fathom how to parse Fahrvergnuegen, but I am sure it is at least two different words combined.

Luís "justlikethatforinstance" Henrique

Just FWIW, I'm pretty sure it would be fahr(en - taken out) vergnuegen.

But, yeah, Germans do cheat in this area...

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Morrison's Lament
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Whoneedsspaces? [Big Grin]

--- G.

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the Virgin Marrya
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Kallsup = accidental nasal enema. Reverse of a YOMANK.

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Danvers Carew
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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In this vein, I cannot recommend highly enough The Deeper Meaning of Liff: A Dictionary Of Things That There Aren't Words For Yet by Douglas Adams and John Lloyd.

It's hard to explain and do it justice, but they take place names and use them as words for things/conditions, etc, for which there are not currently adequate words, and is consistently hilarious. One of my favourite books.

Some random examples:

Harbottle (n.) A particular kind of fly which lives inside double glazing.

Harlosh (vb.) To redistribute the hot water in a bath.

Great Wakering (ptcpl.vb.) Panic which sets in when you badly need to go to the lavatory and cannot make up your mind about what book or magazine to take with you.

Delaware (n.) The hideous stuff on the shelves of a rented house.

Dewlish (adj.) (Of the hands and feet.) Prunelike after an overlong bath.

Shifnal (n.) An awkward shuffling walk caused by two or more people in a hurry accidentally getting in the same segment of a revolving door.

Abilene (adj.) Descriptive of the pleasing coolness on the reverse side of the pillow.

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Morrison's Lament
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Liff is absolutely brilliant, iirc parts of it are available legally online, I'll post a link if I find it.

--- G.

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Morrison's Lament
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Hmn, sorry, it won't google atm, but I found a few examples that I like [Big Grin]

ACLE (n.)

The rouge pin which shirtmakers conceal in the most improbable fold of a new shirt. Its function is to stab you when you don the garment.

DIDLING (participal vb.)

The process of tring to work out who did it when reading a whodunnit, and trying to keep your options open so that when you find out you can allow yourself to think that you knew perfectly well who it was all along.

ADRIGOLE (n.)

The centrepiece of a merry-go-round on which the man with the tickets stands unnervingly still.

FRADDAM (n.)

The small awkward-shaped piece of cheese which remains after grating a large regular-shaped piece of cheese and enables you to cut your fingers.


ABERBEEG (vb.)

Of amateur actors, to adopt a Mexican accent when called upon to play any variety of foreigner (except Pakistanis - from whom a Welsh accent is considered sufficient).


ABERYSTWYTH (n.)

A nostalgic yearning which is in itself more pleasant than the thing being yearned for.


ABOYNE (vb.)

To beat an expert at a game of skill by playing so appallingly that none of his clever tactics or strategies are of any use to him

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CannonFodder Global Trotter
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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Morrison's those are hilarious! I must have this book!

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"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die."

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Ciara...
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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Thanks for the responses. I think rhiandmoi's suggestion comes closest to what I'm trying to explain (although aspiration is rather a general term).

Marrya, do you know any site that describes a nasal enema (or an enema for that matter)? Searching for the term I only found some surfer site.

quote:
Originally posted by Spam & Cookies - with no annual fee:
Your description of the symptoms sounds more like a "brain freeze" (such as from eating ice cream too fast) than an inhalation of water while swimming. Though I suppose in Sweden, the swimming water is generally colder than in Florida, and maybe you'd get a different effect than we do.

Yes, swimming in Sweden is a hassle, what with all those icebergs floating around. [Wink] Seriously though I only really experience severe kallsupar in indoor pools. I'm starting to think that the aching of the throat can be attributed to my allergies (that include clorine). But it's still nothing like a brain freeze. When I get brain freeze the front and sides of my head aches, not the back.

quote:
Originally posted by Danvers Carew:
Abilene (adj.) Descriptive of the pleasing coolness on the reverse side of the pillow.

[lol] I would love it if this caught on. I'm a compulsive pillow twister.

Speaking of "no adequate words" I might also toot a horn for Oxford's Questions of English that bring up some words that have been suggested to them but haven't gotten into public usage yet.

Deceed: To be less than, the opposite of exceed.
Troth: All three, equivalant to both, but used of three things or people.
Loobry: The collection of books kept in the lavatoty for idle browsing. [Big Grin]

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Rhiandmoi
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Is it caused by jumping in and the water shoots up your nose? Or when you are surfacing to take a breath and you start breathing a nanosecond too soon?

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I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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Traveller
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by who wants to MARRYA millionaire:
Kallsup = accidental nasal enema. Reverse of a YOMANK.

So I'd guess that makes the experience a knamoy.

No? Ok. So then I tried to take a page out of Liff and invent an English word for Kallsup. I'm going for the onomatopoetic: sskkkkrrriiumpp!
But it's missing something. I am finding it very difficult to spell the experience of having your upper lip try to curl up under your nostrils.

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Ciara...
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by rhiandmoi for a limited time:
Is it caused by jumping in and the water shoots up your nose? Or when you are surfacing to take a breath and you start breathing a nanosecond too soon?

It's difficult to explain since I've never had to do it before, every Swede automatically knows what it is. [Wink] Plus, I haven't had one for years.

Hm, it's... It's accidentally swallowing/inhaling water when you don't mean to. Say you're swimming, keeping your head above water to breathe and just as you're about to take a breath of air a wave hits you and you end up with water instead. Nose and/or mouth.

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Billy Biggles
Deck the Malls


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Babbacombe: An idle or nonsensical rumour, “It’s just a lot of babbacombe.”

Barnstaple : Mainstay, keystone. “She is the barnstaple of our committee.”

Bawtry : Windy and rainy cold weather. “It’s bawtry today.”

Beccles : Ailment of sheep, cf the staggers, the twitches.

Bovey Tracey : Headstrong, wilful. “None of your bovey tracey ways here, please.”

Cromer : A mistake, bungle. “You made a cromer there.”

Erith : Obsolete third person in old proverb “Man erith, woman morpeth.”

Glossop : Dolt, clot.

Holyhead : Hangover.

Ilkley : Having large elbows.

Lowestoft : A subterranean granary.

Thirsk : A desire for vodka.

Wembley : Suffering from a vague malaise. “I feel a bit wembley this morning.”

Woking : Present participle of the verb to woke (obsolete). Daydreaming.


Not from The Meaning Of Liff, but from a newspaper column by Paul Jennings (1919-1987) around 1958. Adams and Lloyd were funny, but the idea and execution weren’t new. Everybody reveres Douglas Adams, which is fair dinkum, but more people should read Paul Jennings. And they don’t, which is a pity.

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the Virgin Marrya
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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*nostalgic sigh.

I used to have a copy of Liff, years ago.

Liff words still in use: (IIRC)
Ozark - the person who offers to help just as the job is finishing

Burwash - the cooling sensation of puddles washing over the toes of your gumboots

and is it HUMBER? that describes the jiggling of your cheeks as your car drives over one of those cattle stop grids....

aaahhh - happy memories, all that matter

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Felessan
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by WWTraveler's Check:
quote:
Originally posted by who wants to MARRYA millionaire:
Kallsup = accidental nasal enema. Reverse of a YOMANK.

So I'd guess that makes the experience a knamoy.

No? Ok. So then I tried to take a page out of Liff and invent an English word for Kallsup. I'm going for the onomatopoetic: sskkkkrrriiumpp!
But it's missing something. I am finding it very difficult to spell the experience of having your upper lip try to curl up under your nostrils.

If it's out of Liff it has to be a place name, not a wholly made up word. For example, perhaps it's a Wenindee (to use an Aussie example).

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You fool! That's not a warrior, that's a banana!
- a surreal moment in a role-playing game

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Traveller
Deck the Malls


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Ah, of course! Really have to start thinking first, posting second. [dunce] On the other hand, how often do you get to use the word onomatopoetic in a sentence? Wenindee, IMO, comes pretty close. Do the rules allow compound words? Like an Aussie/New Yorker compound? Staying true to the whole nasal enema thing (apt description of my own mis-cued breathing while swimming laps!) I'm thinking Flushingwenindee.
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Danvers Carew
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Billy Norman:

Not from The Meaning Of Liff, but from a newspaper column by Paul Jennings (1919-1987) around 1958. Adams and Lloyd were funny, but the idea and execution weren’t new. Everybody reveres Douglas Adams, which is fair dinkum, but more people should read Paul Jennings. And they don’t, which is a pity.

That's very interesting - I did not know about Paul Jennings. Thanks! [Smile] To be fair to Adams and Lloyd though, I'd argue they are doing something significantly different in Liff.

Their preface says:

quote:
In Life*, there are many hundreds of common experiences, feelings, situations and even objects which we all know and recognize, but for which no words exist.

On the other hand, the world is littered with thousands of spare words which spend their time doing nothing but loafing about on signposts pointing at places.

Our job, as we see it, is to get these words down off the signposts and into the mouths of babes and sucklings and so on, where they can start earning their keep in everyday conversation and make a more positive contribution to society.

* And, indeed in Liff

Jennings, however, is really only looking at funny-sounding place names and saying "This sounds like it could almost be a synonym for...", which is all funny and good, but doesn't sustain interest for very much longer than a newspaper column.

Liff has the same wordplay joke, but layers it with the additional joke of 'words for things which there aren't words for yet'. You could cover up the place names in Liff and just read the definitions and it would still be funny, where you couldn't do the same with Jennings.

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Morrison's Lament
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Indeed, for me the magic of Liff is the fact that everyone knows exactly what the definition is talking about without having to look at the word, a great example is that cool side of the pillow thing! [Smile]

--- G.

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Frenchy
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
I think rhiandmoi's suggestion comes closest to what I'm trying to explain (although aspiration is rather a general term).
Isn't 'to snort' exactly what you're after? [Roll Eyes]
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Ciara...
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Frenchy:
quote:
I think rhiandmoi's suggestion comes closest to what I'm trying to explain (although aspiration is rather a general term).
Isn't 'to snort' exactly what you're after? [Roll Eyes]
Nope.

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Richard W
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quote:
Frenchy said:
Isn't 'to snort' exactly what you're after?

"I snorted water" is close, and I guess it would lead to Kallsup, except it specifically implies the water went up your nose, whereas from what I gather Kallsup means that the water went into your lungs (or your windpipe, at least).

Just "I choked on water" must be pretty close as well. I'm surprised nobody's mentioned 'to choke' yet.

(This is where somebody points out the post that I somehow missed consisting entirely of repetitions of the word "choke", of course...)

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Morrison's Lament
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"Insufflation" - might suit your purposes better. It's pretty much the same as snort but it sounds all medical and scientific, it's what doctors say when they talk about nasal cocaine use [Big Grin]

--- G.

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Da Kine
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Here's one I found in More Sniglets :

loggium -- water that drips from one's nose hours after swimming. [Big Grin]

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Oh, so they have internet on computers now?

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Billy Biggles
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Originally posted by Danvers Carew
quote:
That's very interesting - I did not know about Paul Jennings. Thanks!
Danvers, I am delighted to introduce you to Paul Jennings. I hope you discover him and enjoy him as I do. Look in second-hand bookshops and you shall find.
quote:
To be fair to Adams and Lloyd though, I'd argue they are doing something significantly different in Liff.
Indeed they are, and I don't want to suggest otherwise. I just wanted to point out that even geniuses get a kick start from somebody else.

I'm probably one of the few people on this board who was actually listening to Radio 4 when Hitch Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy was first broadcast at 10.30 pm 31 March 1978, and probably one of the even fewer people who leapt out of bed (I had to get up at four the next morning) screaming "Dear God, this is brilliant!"; and postponed appointments in order to be able to hear each episode as it was broadcast.

One of the most salient points about the Hitch Hiker's series for me was its similarity to children's stories - I'm still convinced that Douglas Adams was thinking of Eeyore when he invented Marvin The Paranoid Android.

I think Adams was firmly rooted in English Whimsy, and I wouldn't be at all suprised to discover that his parents had a copy of The Jenguin Pennings where young Douglas could get a look at it; and if he looked at it, he would have remembered the chapter about place names. Twenty years later he improved on it.

I'm being archaeological about this, but as King George says in Alan Bennet's play, I must speak in order to find out what I think.

(Someone on this board has a brilliant sig in Swedish which says (I put this politely) that talking while you're thinking is like wiping yourself while you're defecating; I agree, but sometimes I'm in a hell of a hurry.)

Back to Ciara's original question. I can't think of a single English word which translates kallsup but that doesn't surprise me. Swedish sometimes has words which English doesn't have, and expressions which wouldn't immediately make sense in English. Unless I'm completely skew-wiff, hyggelig (and I might be thinking in Norwegian here) is not quite the same as cosy, and herrgott content is not quite the same as perfectly cosy. As it happens, I misread kallsup as kallsop and I think of gazpacho,which seems to me the perfect word for an involuntary gulp of cold water, and I intend to say gazpacho if that ever happens to me in the near future.

I was hitchiking in Sweden in 1977, and The Stranglers started playing (it might have been Peaches I'm not sure) and the man who was giving me a lift changed stations, muttering " Skvallmusik!" It took seven years, but I discovered that Skvallmusik means somethng like "pointless useless pop songs nowadays when I was a boy we had CHOONS."

Billy "I also have several untranslatable words from contemporary Hindi, mainly to do with sexual mores, but they can wait for another time" Norman

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Cogito ergo sum, non sum qualis eram. Putting Descartes before the Horace every time.

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snopes
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English lacks a lot of words for concepts that are easily expressed with a single word in other languages. For example, since our kinship ties are not as close as other societies', we do not have a way of distinguishing between maternal and paternal relatives with a single word, or of identifying the gender of some relatives (such as cousins) with a single word.

- snopes

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Joe Bentley
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English is missing quite a few useful words that are commonly used in other languages.

French and German have different terms for knowlege that is learned, say from studying, and knowlege that is aquired through experience and different terms for knowledge that comes from recogintion, and knowledge that comes from understanding.

There's a wonderful Danish word "Hygge" that means "Instantly cozy" that I think is wonderful.

Languages, the English language in particular, hold a wonderful fasination with me for one very simple reason. Right-Brained, or cerebral, people think in words and sentences and phrases. I truly believe it's very hard for right brained people to think about things that don't have a word or phrase for it. Left-Brained, or artist people, may be able to think about abstract ideas easier because they think in images and sensation, but they still have to communicate those ideas with other people in langauge. So no matter how intelligent a population is the intelligence of the entire population as a group is only as good as its language, which is why I think verbal skills should be stressed a lot more then they are in schools.

*Slight Hijack* Is it true that Thesauruses are practically unheard of in any language other then English?

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"Existence has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long." - Rorschach, The Watchmen

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Billy Biggles
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Ciara.
Hijack Hijack Hijack

I know the line "Ducks in the morning..." (I was watching my tape last night The Best Of What's Left Of Pete And Dud , recorded from the telly summer 1990 and what a summer it was...) But where do Pete and Dud say "Nothing Like A Nice Reptile House"? Have you got access to tapes I know nothing of? AND...Hijack Hijack Hijack, have you noticed Embra's sig?

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Cogito ergo sum, non sum qualis eram. Putting Descartes before the Horace every time.

Posts: 377 | From: East Anglia, UK | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Floater
Xboxing Day


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quote:
Originally posted by Billy Norman:
(Someone on this board has a brilliant sig in Swedish which says (I put this politely) that talking while you're thinking is like wiping yourself while you're defecating; I agree, but sometimes I'm in a hell of a hurry.)

I bow my head in your general direction, but you've got the translation wrong. Make it before instead of while (in both cases).
quote:

... the man who was giving me a lift changed stations, muttering " Skvallmusik!" It took seven years, but I discovered that Skvallmusik means somethng like "pointless useless pop songs nowadays when I was a boy we had CHOONS."

Slight correction: it's skvalmusik with just one l. In case you wonder what the literal translation is skvala means both pour and the sound the pouring process makes. Think of an open tap.

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Små hönor skall inte lägga stora ägg för då blir de slarviga i ändan

Posts: 1334 | From: Sweden | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Ciara...
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Billy Norman:
Swedish sometimes has words which English doesn't have, and expressions which wouldn't immediately make sense in English. Unless I'm completely skew-wiff, hyggelig (and I might be thinking in Norwegian here) is not quite the same as cosy, and herrgott content is not quite the same as perfectly cosy.

Almost. Hyggelig is indeed a Norweigan word (and a Danish one) but remove the 'e' and you get the Swedish word hygglig. [Smile] However the Danish/Norweigan hyggelig and the Swedish hygglig don't quite seem to mean the same thing.

According to Nordskol.org Hygglig translates into 'friendly', 'helpful' and 'pretty good' in Norwegian. Hyggelig translates into 'cosy' and 'pleasant' in Swedish.

Yahooing herrgott (advanced search; Danish/Swedish/Norweigan) only turned up pages in German. And my German/Swedish dictionary translates it to mean (1) Dear Lord, and (2) very early in the morning, ungodly (word?) early.

quote:
Originally posted by Billy Norman:
(...) I discovered that Skvallmusik means somethng like "pointless useless pop songs nowadays when I was a boy we had CHOONS."

Strike the second L and you're absolutely correct. Like you said, it basically means dreadful non-stop pop (music), or muzak.

ETA: You take too long posting and someone beats you to it. Figures...

quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
For example (...) we do not have a way of distinguishing between maternal and paternal relatives with a single word, or of identifying the gender of some relatives (such as cousins) with a single word.

I've always found that a bit confusing and have learned that it can lead to odd translations.

For example: Donald Duck's uncle is Scrooge McDuck. In Swedish an uncle is a farbror/morbror (fatherbrother/motherbrother). The translators subsequently dubbed Scrooge as Donald's 'farbror', only learning years later that Scrooge was actually his 'morbror'. Same with Huey, Dewey and Louie calling Donald 'farbror' when he is really their 'morbror'. They've never bothered correcting it - which is just as well since they've been known as 'farbröder' for so long that changing it to 'morbröder' would just look weird.

It's the same with grandparents:
Maternal grandpa/ma = morfar/mormor (motherfather/mothermother),
Paternal grandpa/ma = farfar/farmor (fatherfather/fathermother).

The greater the grandparents, the longer the word.
Example: (Maternal) Grandma's mother/Great grandma
Mormorsmor (mothermother's mother).
(Paternal) Grandpa's grandpa/ Great great grandpa
Farfars farfar (fatherfather's fatherfather)

But English does have an advantage when it comes to cousins. (If I understand it correctly) My 1st cousin's son is my 2nd cousin; his son would be my 3rd cousin; his son would be my 4th cousin, and so on. Also my mother's 1st cousin is my 2nd cousin and his child is my 3rd cousin etc.

In Sweden only 1st cousins are called cousins (one kusin; several kusiner) and everything else is a syssling/several sysslingar. Gets to be pretty confusing every once in a while.

quote:
Originally posted by Joe Bentley: Basking in the Sun:
*Slight Hijack* Is it true that Thesauruses are practically unheard of in any language other then English?

Here a thesaurus is called a synonymordbok, so we do have them. Can't say how popular they are though.

quote:
Originally posted by Billy Norman:
I know the line "Ducks in the morning..." (I was watching my tape last night The Best Of What's Left Of Pete And Dud , recorded from the telly summer 1990 and what a summer it was...) But where do Pete and Dud say "Nothing Like A Nice Reptile House"? Have you got access to tapes I know nothing of?

"Nothing like a nice warm reptile house" comes from the Pete & Dud sketch 'At The Zoo'. It's available on the DVD 'The Best of Peter Cook and Dudley Moore', which (from what I understand) is just a retitled version of the VHS 'The Best of What's Left of Not Only... But Also'.

Now it's time for me to turn your question around on you. Do you have something that I don't? From what I understand there were a lot of sketches broadcast on telly in the 90's that weren't released commercially. *curses*
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Norman:
AND...Hijack Hijack Hijack, have you noticed Embra's sig?

I hadn't actually, thanks for pointing it out. Had to look it up to get the drift though. I haven't come across a whole lot of Behind the Fringe material. Derek & Clive on the other hand... [Big Grin]

Ci-Is it possible to hijack your own topic?-ara

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-Oh, we'd all like to lick the great Superman, Jimmy.

Posts: 2298 | From: Eastern Scandinavia (Sverige) | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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