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Author Topic: The Truth for Youth
GravyTrain
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Jaime Vargas Sanchez:
Who? The same people who use Carbon-14 to prove the Earth is only about 10,000 years ols - "the age that creation science supports!" - just one page after claiming that carbon-14 is highly inaccurate and of course bunk for dating fossils.

Let's be consistent. Either carbon-14 is to be trusted or it isn't. Don't use it for what promotes the agenda and dismiss it for what you reject, folks!


Jamie,

welcome to the wide wide world of "Creation Science".

It was just like an article in the local paper, where a pastor attempted to use the "Law of Biogenes[sic]" to prove that God created all life.

Science only makes claim to have a whole body of mutually consistent statements. Number theory states, for instance, not that two plus two DOES equal for, but that 2+2=4 if and only if the number that comes after 0 is 1 [Succ(0) = 1].

Once you accept a single, solitary scientific principle in your "proof" of creation, you have to accept them all. They're either all true or all false. In order to use a single piece of science to prove that the earth is 10,000 years old, you have to accept that it is 5 billion years old. Which is why I've always maintained that religion and science are two mutually exclusive means to an end.

M.


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Finite Fourier Alchemy
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Gibbie:
If you're secure in your faith why should a close relationship with an unbeliever damage it? Do atheists recruit? Do they give away toasters too?

Do you think that would work?

If so, I'll bring it up at the next Meeting of Evil.

::sinister laugh::

quote:

Now I didn't mind not going out with him again because frankly I was bored to tears. However religion had nothing to do with it. We were simply different people.

I've found it difficult to socialize with certain devout Christians who define themselves only in terms of their religion and don't seem to know or care about much else. I want to believe the role of Chrisitanity in such behavior is merely a focus point for an already annoying person to obsess over.

But there is a world of difference between avoiding people because they're annoying and avoiding people because I fear their worldview will corrupt me.

At least he didn't try to convert you from a conservative Christian to a bigoted one.

Alchemy

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Thinking about New England / missing old Japan


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Cat Grey
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Gibbie:
If you're secure in your faith why should a close relationship with an unbeliever damage it? Do atheists recruit? Do they give away toasters too?

How about free donuts?

I think Bubba's basically right. While it's possible to have two different-but-compatible faiths - may, in fact, even educate and enlighten you both - most people will find that they have two different (just different) faiths, and their beliefs may not reconcile as easily as the couple expected.

My ex-wife, by way of example, devoted a certain amount of personal angst to worrying about whether I would join her in Heaven once we both died. As a non-Christian, the question was utterly academic to my mind.

Cat "Ne'er the twain shall meet" Grey

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"Beer assuages grief. No one tells you that." ~Arrow-Tech IV


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Gibbie
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Hmm I think a question I was asking got lost. Bubba specifically mentioned a close, as in a business relationship. Now like I said, I can understand why it's a bigger deal in a marriage, but why should you not go into business with someone who is of a different (or even no) faith? Many fundamentalists I know don't even want to associate with "non-Christians". A lot have expressed the same "it would be bad for my faith" reservation. Why?

Gibbie

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If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.


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bufungla
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Gibbie:
Hmm I think a question I was asking got lost. Bubba specifically mentioned a close, as in a business relationship. Now like I said, I can understand why it's a bigger deal in a marriage, but why should you not go into business with someone who is of a different (or even no) faith? Many fundamentalists I know don't even want to associate with "non-Christians". A lot have expressed the same "it would be bad for my faith" reservation. Why?

How 'rigidly' do you (or does anyone) want to interpret the Bible? How about the Amish, who refrain from using commercial electrical power at home so they won't be encouraging people to break the Sabbath? (those plants are open 24/7, you know). Or have the adult women fasten their clothes using nothing but straight pins, in order to follow Paul's instructions to women about not wearing jewelry?

It's like a fractal or a cloud - pick a sufficiently small portion and stare at it closely enough, and you can see anything there you want to see.

buf 'but at least the Amish don't go on TV and tell you you're going to Hell' ungla

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"Pardon him. Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature."

George Bernard Shaw, Caesar and Cleopatra


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Gibbie
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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I saw an Amish couple sitting in the McDonald's at the Super WalMart the other day. Eating burgers and drinking cokes. Was quite the interesting juxtaposition.

Gibbie

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If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.


Posts: 3993 | From: Indiana | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Midway Bilbo
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Gibbie:
I saw an Amish couple sitting in the McDonald's at the Super WalMart the other day. Eating burgers and drinking cokes. Was quite the interesting juxtaposition.

My co. has a couple plants in Lancaster PA, one guy told us he has a rule:
Never tell an Amish guy you have a pickup truck.

Midway "be ye careful with them english" Bill


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christmas tree kitapper
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Gibbie:
I saw an Amish couple sitting in the McDonald's at the Super WalMart the other day. Eating burgers and drinking cokes. Was quite the interesting juxtaposition.

Are you sure they weren't Mennonites? They use electricity, and drive cars, and go to Wal-Mart.

ki"I saw a Mennonite girl in the eating disorders unit at UW Hospital once"tap


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Gibbie
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Good question, I don't know. Can someone explain the difference? My husband and I were talking about this at dinner with our daughter. I was relating the Wal*Mart incident and she asked what Amish was. I said that it was a religion, and one of their beliefs was not using modern conveniences such as cars and electricity. My husband thought that Amish was the culture and Mennonite was the religion. So how does it work anyway? This couple was dressed in the manner I've always ascribed to Amish. She in a plain, long dress and white cap. He in a slacks and a plain shirt, wide brim hat. He also had the beard around his chin but no mustache. So what is the difference? Are Amish fundamentalist Mennonites?

Gibbie

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If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.


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Goes Hmmm
The Red and the Green Stamps


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From Yahoo Reference:
Mennonite:
quote:
Member of a Protestant church named for Menno Simonsz. They trace their origins to the Swiss Brethren (established 1525), nonconformists who rejected infant baptism and stressed the separation of church and state. Persecution scattered them across Europe; they found political freedom first in the Netherlands and N Poland, and from there moved to Ukraine and Russia. They first emigrated to N. America in 1663. Many Russian Mennonites emigrated to the U.S. Midwest and to Canada in the 1870s when they lost their exemption from Russian military service. Today Mennonites are found in many parts of the world, especially in N. and S. America. Their creed stresses the authority of the Scriptures, the example of the early church, and baptism as a confession of faith. They value simplicity of life, and many refuse to swear oaths or serve in the military. The various Mennonite groups include the strictly observant Amish and Hutterites as well as the more moderate Mennonite church.

Apparently the Amish are a orthodox group of Mennonites. There are Mennonites in Oklahoma that are like the Amish and there are others that live a relatively modern lifestyle. However, I doubt any of them will be reading this.

Goes-hmmm"The English... hmmph!::said with folded arms and a nod of the head::"


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Hairyfairy
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Arrrgghh! The evolution comic was horrible. I've never seen a greater example of the
"Scientists have proof without any certainty. Creationists have certainty without any proof" quote.

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First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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If you folks will be so kind as to elect me Dictator in 2008, I make the solemn campaign promise that I will gather together all the people who think along the lines of the people who created that page, and will kindly and gently escort them to their new Heaven on Earth, a small, lush island in the South Pacific.

Then I'll 'forget' about having done that, and redesignate the island as the US Navy's new munitions testing range.

Think of it as Evolution in Action. [Laughing out loud]

--------------------
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle


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Mouse
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by First of Two:
If you folks will be so kind as to elect me Dictator in 2008, I make the solemn campaign promise that I will gather together all the people who think along the lines of the people who created that page, and will kindly and gently escort them to their new Heaven on Earth, a small, lush island in the South Pacific.

Then I'll 'forget' about having done that, and redesignate the island as the US Navy's new munitions testing range. [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

Think of it as Evolution in Action. [lol]

For that alone, you have the support of one unrepentant liberal.

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"You see? The mysteries of the Universe are revealed when you break stuff." Coop from MegasXLR

"I distrust who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." -- Susan B. Anthony

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Dog Friendly
Carol of the Bills


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Make that two unrepentant liberals, although I'm actually a bit further to the left -- I generally consider myself "progressive" rather than "liberal".

But yeah, to misquote Barry Goldwater (I think?): "Tolerance in the face of intolerance is no virtue".

Dog (Can I bite him now?) Friendly

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"Nobody ever got stoned and beat up his old lady" -- Spence, snapdragonfly's friend

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