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Author Topic: Accused killer was 'disgusted' that transgender teen was male
SkyeTisTheSeasonWynters
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News story here

For a little back story:

quote:
One of three men accused of killing a 17-year-old Newark transgender nearly three years ago testified today that he participated in the attack after learning that Gwen Araujo was not the woman he thought he'd had sex with.

This is the part I don't really get:

quote:
"I thought it was impossible to derive pleasure from a man unless you were gay," he said. "I was having serious questions about my sexuality."
Sometimes, it's hard to believe I walk around on the face of the earth with these people.

Skye


ETA: Can anyone "understand" this point of view / logic ?

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Advocatus Diaboli
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I can understand the logic though of course I believe it to be totally and completely flawed. The man in question Jose Merel believes in this equation.

enjoy hot man sex = teh gay !

Of course it abosolutely does not. Simply having a gay experiance doesn't make you gay or even bisexual. Just because a women who is being raped or a child who is being molested feels physical pleasure from the act does not mean that is what they like or wanted. It's somewhat the same thing. They didn't have a choice, Jose did not have an informed choice. Gwen never should've have hidden the fact that she was of the biological and genital sex male but that doesn't justify of course any overly violent reaction, certainly not murder.

I'm reminded of a line in the movie Kissing Jessica Stein that goes something like this:

Gay Man to Gay Boyfriend: If you were blindfolded and I blew you and then Helen blew you blew you would you even be able to tell the difference?

The real question here is not whether he could but would the difference matter to him mentally, to his sense of being. Obviously in this homophobic culture we have the difference does matter. Most people have a hard time believing that someone who was straight could like the physical sensations of a gay experiance.

Now of course some of these people professing to be straight but having gay sex are probably queerer than a three dollar bill, most of the probably but not all would be.

I too feel sad and disgusted that we live in a world that would have a society and parents that would raise such people.

Ok interesting first post I think, hope it's a good one [Big Grin]

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Priestley's Mouse
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I'm confused. I thought "transgender" referred to people who have had a sex change operation, or are going through the process to have one. The article seems to imply that the victim was male.

Am I reading something wrong, did the article mis-use the transgender term, or is my defintion incorrect?

PM

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Rhiandmoi
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This is a huge local case. IIRC She lived as a female but was still anatomically male. Her mother even petitioned the court to have her gender changed on her records posthumously.
She was also IMO very pretty.
http://www.blazepro.com/gwen/
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/05/26/BAG246RHQQ19.DTL

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Advocatus Diaboli
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I just looked up the definition on google and this is what it gave from the online Webster dictionary as

exhibiting the appearance and behavioral characteristics of the opposite sex

But this is of course opening a whole can of worms even with in the community of what exactly a transgended person is. We love to pigeonhole and label as much as any other person at times which is why you end up with ridiculous acronyms like so GLBTTTQQ, 10 points to anyone who can guess them all without looking it up. It could probably even be longer.

In other words I think it is a fair description.

AD

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BASHIR: It's not your fault things are the way they are.

LEE: Everybody tells themselves that... and nothing ever changes...

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Bored and Dangerous
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quote:
Originally posted by Priestley's Mouse:
I'm confused. I thought "transgender" referred to people who have had a sex change operation, or are going through the process to have one. The article seems to imply that the victim was male.

Am I reading something wrong, did the article mis-use the transgender term, or is my defintion incorrect?

PM

Transgender can sometimes refer to someone in this situation: they feel that they were born the wrong sex, and live that identity in some areas of their life, but stay the same sex, and don't necessarily want to get surgery for many reasons. A man I met once had a successful career, a wife, three sons, and a writing career on the side, but he went by a woman's name in private and to his friends. Otherwise, he went by his male name. Obviously, his family was very understanding.

--B&D

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blucanary
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I believe in the case Gwen was a pre-op Trans-Woman who couldn't nessesarily afford to have the operation.

GLBTTTQQ, Um Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender, Transexual, I give up what are the Q's?

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sherri_lu
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quote:
Originally posted by blucanary:
I believe in the case Gwen was a pre-op Trans-Woman who couldn't nessesarily afford to have the operation.

GLBTTTQQ, Um Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender, Transexual, I give up what are the Q's?

Eddy could not get the operation because he(sic) was only 17
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Kev
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Priestley's Mouse:
I'm confused. I thought "transgender" referred to people who have had a sex change operation, or are going through the process to have one. The article seems to imply that the victim was male.

Am I reading something wrong, did the article mis-use the transgender term, or is my defintion incorrect?

PM

Actually that would be transexual because they have or are planning to actually change their sex. Some people's definition of transexual is a little more broad to include people who primarily live as the oppostite sex even if they have no intentions of having an operation. Transgender is closer to what B&D describes above...though there is a whole spectrum and no real agreed upon definitions.

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