quote:Originally posted by Wintermute: Depends on which article you read. Some articles state he was told to go outside. that is a lawful, legal order he was required by law to follow it unless the laws in Colorado are that much different from the laws in California. At that point he was being detained by the police and is required to follow lawful legal orders.
All the articles linked in this thread say police asked him to step outside to discuss the incident, he refused, and all hell broke loose.
We don't know what police said to him, and we don't know his response. But to leap to the conclusion that he refused a "lawful order" is merely a leap with no basis in what we know.
Pogue
-------------------- Let's drink to the causes in your life: Your family, your friends, the union, your wife. Posts: 11325 | From: Kentucky | Registered: Nov 2000
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If nothing else this is really bad PR. I know that I have no idea of what actually happened in this case but even if he did take the salad without paying (which I find odd since I believe they have seperate salad plates (different salad plates, like giving clear glasses for water or coloured ones for purchased beverages in certain places)... and around here they only give pizza plates for pizza when the pizza arrives). I think there are a lot of people responsible for the mishap in the OP. It should've have been obvious he was using the wrong plate and should've been asked to ask his server who would know from his table number if he had purchased a salad (hey, they know where to take which pizza, they know what people order). They could've claimed health (like the rule about not reusing the same plate) or a host of other reasons without having to call the cops. I'm not saying he wasn't stealing but I do think it could've been handled better than a CEC showdown with the cops.
With that said I have been in resturants where I have helped myself to salad after waiting over 20-30 minutes for my meal. I've always told the server (when I finally saw a server) what I had done (and the majority of the time the salad was still comped but I was more than willing to pay... I don't know if this man was given that chance).
I also think there is some grey areas of theft. At Fuderuckers they sell salads, but they also have a condiment bar. Many people will take the lettuce and other toppings (including maynaise and ketchup to make dressing) and create their own salad. Is that legal? illegal? I honestly don't know since the condiment bar is included with the burger. Ok, it does seem like a bit of an abuse of the policy but I always get a little cup of pickles (I don't like pickles on my burger but I do like pickles with my burger) how much can they dictate how I use the product they say I'm entilted to? I know that's a whole different thing but the variations in policies from place to place are can cause honest confussion and misunderstandings.
While still wrong, could it have been possible he was picking things like a couple of pepperocinnis (sp) peppers off the bar to have with his pizza (Pappa John's serves them with theirs) and while its a bit daft to think one could just help themselves to any food that can be accessed I do understand how someone could be honestly confused.
While I don't care for most stupid people I still don't think they should be tasered. I also can't honesly say I've never been confused by buffet rules at sometime or another... especially out Chinesse resturants. I often have to ask for clarification. If they say crab legs are seperate, that makes sense. If they ask if I going to be eating any crab and I want a generic crab (or more likely crabby crab/crab flavoured cod fish) dish on the buffet the question isn't clear to me. I think I understand what they mean (they have always been refering to the crab legs) but I still ask for clarification. Although, in the past, I always did that for I could enjoy my meal (if I thought people thought I was trying taking something I wasn't entitled to I'd be sick and wouldn't be able to enjoy my meal) but from now on I'll do it for I won't get tasered.
-------------------- "The question for joining the protected forum for real magicians should be:
What is the use of women?" Steve W. from JREF's 'This is no fun' Posts: 7622 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by BeachLife: So what's the alternative? Allow anyone who has kids around to misbehave and steal so long as they aren't stealing too much. The man is every bit as much as fault as the anyone else. If I had my kids around I would have made sure it was handled smoothly.
Law enforcement personnel are supposed to be trained in dealing with the public, especially uncooperative members of the public. What if they did not have a taser on them? How else would the police have dealt with this situation in that case? I seriously doubt for example, given the same set of circumstances, that they would have drawn their guns in a crowded restaurant don't you?
I admit I hold those in law enforcement to a higher standard of behavior than I do the general public. Is that unreasonable? And all I am suggesting is that surely there was an alternative to this excessive use of force.
-------------------- If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr Posts: 18428 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Christie: I admit I hold those in law enforcement to a higher standard of behavior than I do the general public. Is that unreasonable?
It is not unreasonable. After all,
quote:Originally posted by Wintermute: the police officer goes through an extensive background check normally including a polygraph exam.
The cops have apparently been background-checked and psych-tested up the wazoo. They have also been extensively trained on the appropriate use of force, which is why they carry different tools (nightsticks, tazers, guns). Further,
quote:Originally posted by Wintermute: The officer if caught in a lie would not only be punished by the department but could also be criminally prosecuted on local, state and federal laws.
The cops apparently also have more to lose: their jobs, their pensions, they can be criminally prosecuted for their misconduct, etc. It is not unreasonable, therefore, to hold them to a higher standard of behavior.
Four Kitties
-------------------- If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales? Posts: 13275 | From: Kindergarten World, Massachusetts | Registered: Jul 2003
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I am also in the crowd that says we don't know enough to say exactly what happened and who was right. Just a few of my own opinions and observation.
There seems to be multiple witnesses on both sides, some saying the man started the physical portion of the altercation by pushing the officers, some who say one of the officers was thumping him in the chest. I don't know how this went.
If I am questioning you, and you push me, you WILL be arrested and placed into handcuffs, and you WILL go to jail. Your chances of being tased have just increased dramaticaly, depending on your level of compliance at that point. If this indeed was the case, that is an appropriate level of force to use. Pepper spray in a crowded building is a bad idea, batons swinging in a crowded area is not much better. A taser, when deployed correctly is quite capable of being done without risk to bystanders. Get in to a boxing match is not a great option. Once article said he was touched directly with the taser, which I take to mean he was touch tased, which means the air cartrige is removed and the taser is used very similar to those that some people carry for defense.(This is not nearly as effective though). I have been tased I do know what "unbareable" pain it is.
It is not unreasonable for the manager to ask to see his reciept. This is the purpose of reciepts and why that are also referred to as proof of purchase. I get the impression that he was not very cooperative with the manager, and in that case, I could care less that he called the police. Police are trained to deal with disorderly persons.
It is not unreasonable for the police to ask him to step outside and discuss the matter. I find that most people want to do so, as they don't want to discuss matters with the police in front of a bunch of people, especially if its people they know. If they refuse thats fine, but then when it escelates its gonna happen there, not away from the eyes of the children.
I don't care that it was just a salad. It doesn't really matter to me how small the amount is, if you take something that is not yours or given to you then its theft. I have booked people for lesser amounts than this. The fact that it escelated as far as it did is unfortunate, but IF he stole the salad, and IF he was being loud, using profanity, and disrupting the place of business, and IF he escelated the matter by pushing the cop, then I don't have any problem with the way this occurred. Again I say IF because there is not enough information here to say that is what happened, and so far the man is only alledge to have committted these acts.
It does not appear to me that the man was tased for stealing salad. He was tased because of the officers perception that he was becoming violent. Wheter he became violent because he was physically provoked by the police or because he got pissed off at being called on stealing a salad and decided to push an officer I can't say, but he was not tased for stealing a salad.
quote:I admit I hold those in law enforcement to a higher standard of behavior than I do the general public. Is that unreasonable? And all I am suggesting is that surely there was an alternative to this excessive use of force.
It absolutely is not unreasonable but before you judge it as excessive wait until we have all the information. I have never gotten into an altercation that was text book perfect. Often it happens in really bad areas, on a split second, and you just have to kind of wing it, go with the flow, and do the best you can.
I'm not ready to believe just yet, that because somebody said they had to confront the cops about taking care of the kids before it was done that they intended to just leave them there. Often after I have just handcuffed somebody and am taking them away, somebody comes up and say "But you have to do this, this and this, you can't leave yet." Hey I'm taking the guy that wants to fight and putting him into my police car, so we don't have to deal with him anymore. I fully intend to take care of that, that, and that, but right now I'm going to put this person someplace so that they can't hurt somebody. I'll be right back inside.
quote:The cops apparently also have more to lose: their jobs, their pensions, they can be criminally prosecuted for their misconduct
Not to mention prison time. Being a cop in prison would be a really bad time.
quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Desperate Cupcakes:
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wow. In a mere two sentences, the perfect example of the straw man argument. Congratulations.
The "Straw Man" argument refers to creating a more extreme or distorted version of someone's argument to make it easier to attack.
Like this ?
quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Wintermute: Well hopefully the man learned from this experience. When the man with the tazer gives you a lawful command, do it. Do not push him, or try to physically fight him. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, meekly submitting to all forms of authority is always a good way to go through life.
-------------------- I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. -- On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs by LTC. Dave Grossman, USA (Ret) Posts: 675 | From: Arizona | Registered: Jun 2003
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reading through the articles I thought of something, maybe he was getting the salad for his kids. Say he was just trying to save money, so he got a salad. Just one for his two kids and himself to share. Hell I share with my daughter all the time. Or say he got with kids and got only the pizza, after the kids (or himself) had a salad craving, went to the salad bar with the intent of paying on the way out. Brain farts, it happens. And if other customers offered to pay for the, what $2.00 salad, why did the incident escalate?
-------------------- Hey, check out my dads website -- www.eastcountyhwy.com He grooms dogs too. Posts: 1593 | From: Bedias, TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:I thought of something, maybe he was getting the salad for his kids.
There are a lot of maybes, which is why we can't determine what actually happened.
quote:if other customers offered to pay for the, what $2.00 salad, why did the incident escalate?
IF he did steal the salad, and he or someone else offered to pay after the fact, it doesn't change that it was stolen.
suspect:Hey sorry I stole that car I was test driving, I'll pay for it though.
Officer: Oh well as long as you pay for it its all ok.
Doesn't make it any different that it was a salad. Dollar amount is just less.
-------------------- I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. -- On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs by LTC. Dave Grossman, USA (Ret) Posts: 675 | From: Arizona | Registered: Jun 2003
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-------------------- If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr Posts: 18428 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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Anybody know what the use of force rules are for Aurora? Here, the use of a taser is on the same level as deadly force. In other words, it would be used in the same circumstances that an officer would use his gun. This would be well above the levels he would subdue a suspect unarmed or use his baton.
Posts: 69 | From: Orlando, FL | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:"They beat this man in front of all these kids then Tased him in my sister's lap," Mayo told the newspaper. "They had no regard for the effect this would have on the kids. This is Chuck E. Cheese, you know."
I know this is a serious situation but I just can't stop laughing at this statement. Only in America.
Edited to add: After reading this yet again it sounds like Chuck E. Cheese was in her sisters lap!
-------------------- The views expressed in the above Post does not necessarily reflect those of snopes,The Infopoop Corporation,the Internet or most of society for that matter. Posts: 2474 | From: Scranton, PA | Registered: Apr 2003
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Raven brings up a good point. I don't think many weapons are considered "non-deadly" just "less deadly". I'm a 110 lb (soaking wet) weakling with a few minor health problems (like anemia... not sure if that counts as a medical condition). I worry what the use of such force (which would probably be strong enough to bring down I large male) would do to me. What if the salad theif had heart problems and died from the incident? While I hate theifs (if that's what he is) I don't want to see someone dead due to a non-violent crime... I know I wasn't there but there seems like there should be safer ways to subdue an unarmed suspect. My problem is the law now says that one can not shoot a fleeing felon (even if caught in the act) but it seems one can taser a posible/suspected salad theif inside a childrens area.
-------------------- "The question for joining the protected forum for real magicians should be:
What is the use of women?" Steve W. from JREF's 'This is no fun' Posts: 7622 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Anybody know what the use of force rules are for Aurora? Here, the use of a taser is on the same level as deadly force. In other words, it would be used in the same circumstances that an officer would use his gun. This would be well above the levels he would subdue a suspect unarmed or use his baton.
I don't know what they are there, but here they fall just above athe use of soft hand. Department sets their own policy. Raven if you could provide your information that puts them on the same level as lethal force there I would be most interested to see that. That seems quite different than most agencies that I have seen. Not trying to say your wrong, just really would be interested to see that policy.
quote: Raven brings up a good point. I don't think many weapons are considered "non-deadly" just "less deadly". I'm a 110 lb (soaking wet) weakling with a few minor health problems (like anemia... not sure if that counts as a medical condition). I worry what the use of such force (which would probably be strong enough to bring down I large male) would do to me. What if the salad theif had heart problems and died from the incident?
I have seen people as small as you tased, people with various heart problems tased, people with a wide variety of medical problems tased, people with pacemakes and other similar inserts tased. None of them that I have seen are any worse for the wear. I suspec that it would do to you exactly what it does to the large male, cause you to lock up, go down to the ground, and wait for the 5 seconds to end.
quote:I don't want to see someone dead due to a non-violent crime
Again at the point that the taser was used, it seems that it was no longer a non violent crime. Where provoked or unprovoked it had turned phsical at this point, which changes the escelation of force and the rules about what level of force can be used to change. He wasn't tased for stealing a salad, he was tased because it had become a physical altercation.
quote:I know I wasn't there but there seems like there should be safer ways to subdue an unarmed suspect.
Agencies that use the taser report suspect injuries are down, officer injuries are down, and lawsuits for injuries are down. This guy is not worse for the wear save two small puncture wounds and the memory of what its like to ride the lighting. THe officers were uninjured, he is uninjured, and all bystanders are uninjured. I will take this as a positive result for subduing an unarmed or armed man anyday. All the cute jackie chan movie moves are just that. For the movies. In real life, somebody usually gets hurt if you try and do it hands vs. hands.
-------------------- I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. -- On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs by LTC. Dave Grossman, USA (Ret) Posts: 675 | From: Arizona | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Raven: [QB] Anybody know what the use of force rules are for Aurora? Here, the use of a taser is on the same level as deadly force.
If you live in Orlando, fl it appears that tasers are considered less then lethal force. this places taser in the same group as baton, and chemical agents. I know in Kansas City that tasers can be used for non-compliance of verbal commands as well. Normal these procedures are departmental in nature so they vary city by city, state by state, county by county.
quote:There is no doubt that Tasers, promoted as non-lethal weapons, are an excellent idea. Police reports show numerous incidents in which officers used a Taser, instead of a conventional firearm, to stop suspects. Usually, suspects fully recover within a few minutes after they have been shot with a Taser. The weapon's availability also has greatly reduced the number of times officers have used batons and chemical sprays to subdue suspects.
-------------------- If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales? Posts: 13275 | From: Kindergarten World, Massachusetts | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by vampyrviolia: Haven't there been a few cases lately when a person has died as a result of being tasered?
No. There has to my knowledge never been a single death caused by the USE of the taser.
quote: More than 80 deaths have been reported since 1999 after victims were shocked with stun guns.
and none of the deaths were caused by the taser at least to my knowledge. Other causes were alwayus found to be the real reason for death.
Posts: 4580 | From: Walnut Creek, CA | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by vampyrviolia: Haven't there been a few cases lately when a person has died as a result of being tasered?
No. There has to my knowledge never been a single death caused by the USE of the taser.
quote: More than 80 deaths have been reported since 1999 after victims were shocked with stun guns.
and none of the deaths were caused by the taser at least to my knowledge. Other causes were alwayus found to be the real reason for death.
Are you familiar with the eggshell skull theory as it is applied to criminal prosecutions in the U.S.?
quote:If you are at fault when you injure someone, you are responsible for all the consequences, whether you could have foreseen them or not. For example, if you cause an injury to a hemophiliac who begins to bleed severely, you are responsible for whatever happens to him, even though you had no way of knowing that the injury would be so severe.
If someone tases a person who turns out to have a heart condition and that person dies because the taser triggererd a heart attack, the person who used the taser is responsible for the death. The possibility that the victim might have died next week anyway is legally irrelevant.
Four Kitties
-------------------- If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales? Posts: 13275 | From: Kindergarten World, Massachusetts | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Four Kitties in the arborvitae: theory as it is applied to criminal prosecutions in the U.S.?
Can you show me a cite where the courts determined the cause of death was because of the taser? If not, then my point stands.
Posts: 4580 | From: Walnut Creek, CA | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Wintermute: Can you show me a cite where the courts determined the cause of death was because of the taser? If not, then my point stands.
quote:The Scottsdale-based company created a report detailing 42 cases of people who died after being shot by a Taser. The company claims the stun guns were cleared every time.
"It is not Taser International that says Taser is not to blame," Taser chief executive Rick Smith said in an April news release. "It is the medical examiner's opinion in every single case across the country."
The company, however, didn't have the autopsy reports at the time, and relied on media accounts and anecdotal information from police for most of its analysis, the Republic found.
The Republic reported that Taser's report omitted details that contradict its claims, such as the published findings of a medical examiner who concluded that electrical shocks from a Taser contributed directly to the death of a man in an Indiana jail.
Smith said the report didn't need actual autopsies to prove Tasers are not lethal.
"I know in my heart what the truth is," Smith says. "Taser hasn't killed any of these people."
But autopsy reports prepared by medical examiners (ones who do not have any financial interest in boosting Taser's stock price, ones that do not actually work for Taser International) say differently.
quote:James Borden, 47, Monroe County, Ind., Nov. 6, 2003 On the eve of his father's funeral, Borden was arrested on a minor violation. Although officers were supposed to transport him to a hospital, he was taken to jail instead. Upon arrival at the jail, Borden did not follow commands of jailers. He was first shot with a Taser for initially refusing to pull up his pants. A jailer shocked him repeatedly until he collapsed and died. The autopsy report lists cause of death as a heart attack due to an enlarged heart, pharmacologic intoxication and electrical shocks from Taser. The jailer who shocked Borden has been charged with two counts of felony battery, including battery while armed with a deadly weapon.
From the same source:
quote:William Lomax, 26, Las Vegas, Nev., Feb. 21, 2004 Lomax died after being shocked multiple times during a struggle with police and private security at a public housing complex. A jury at a coroner's inquest ruled that the Taser contributed to his death. The Clark County Coroner says the death raises questions about the way Tasers are used. Lomax was high on PCP, a stimulant known for its ability to spark aggression. The coroner said multiple Taser bursts prevented Lomax from being able to breathe and ultimately contributed to a cardiac arrest.
quote:William Teasley, 31, Anderson, S.C., Aug 16, 2004 Teasley was arrested for disorderly conduct. Deputies say he became violent while they tried to book him into jail. During a struggle, deputies shocked Teasley with a Taser. He stopped breathing. The coroner said Taser contributed directly to Teasley's death, saying it was the proverbial last straw. The coroner said his heart, spleen and liver were enlarged, he had hardened arteries and an obstructed airway. The coroner's office says officials with Taser International asked his office to reverse its ruling and leave the Taser out.
Four Kitties
-------------------- If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales? Posts: 13275 | From: Kindergarten World, Massachusetts | Registered: Jul 2003
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Of course no one ever dies from a Taser. No one ever dies from AIDS, either...
-------------------- Come on, come on - spin a little tighter Come on, come on - and the world's a little brighter Posts: 5595 | From: Columbus, OH : The Soccer Capital of America | Registered: Sep 2002
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So kitties the quick answer is no you can not show me a court case where the taser was shown to have killed a person. The information you provided does not show a court case showing the taser is a dangerous and lethal weapon.
Posts: 4580 | From: Walnut Creek, CA | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Oualawouzou: Since when do judges have authority in the medical field?
Judges have authority over the law of the land. So, if a person died from the use of a taser then taser international could be sued for it. The court system would then determine if the taser caused the death based on experts from the prosecution and the defense.
Posts: 4580 | From: Walnut Creek, CA | Registered: Jul 2003
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This seems a really narrow definition of evidence of tasers causing death, Wintermute. What if the family in question didn't sue? What if the victim had no family to sue for him/her? What if the case got thrown out on a technicality? What if the jury got it wrong? Why not accept the evidence of an autopsy? Or do you feel that medical examiners are biased in some way?
-------------------- ~~Ai am in mai prrrrrraime!~~ Posts: 10111 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Sep 2004
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Isn't that like saying "cigarette isn't dangerous for your health" was true untill Marlboro and cie were sued, regardless of the studies made before?
quote:Originally posted by Chloe: What if the family in question didn't sue? What if the victim had no family to sue for him/her?
Tasers have been around for many years and have been used many times. The chances of a family not suing is pretty slim in this day and age.
quote: What if the case got thrown out on a technicality?
Show me a case with a technicality and we can talk about it. Otherwise we are just grasping at straws on that oen.
quote: What if the jury got it wrong?
They may have but the basic understanding of electricity demonstrates the safety of a taser. They are a high voltage but a low amperage device.
quote: Why not accept the evidence of an autopsy? Or do you feel that medical examiners are biased in some way?
The medical examiner could be biased, or just plain wrong. If a person had certain medical conditions a taser could aggravate certain pre-existing medical conditions. Yet, the taser is a much safer alternative then a baton which WILL cause large amount of physical trauma that CAN lead to death or shooting the person. Now, ask yourself if you were not in the right state of mind a did something that was very dangerous to other would you prefer to be tased or shot? Now, I will admit I have never been tased. I am not doing that portion of my training till May. I have been hit with a stun gun and I thought it was an amazingly useful weapon. The officers I talk to love the taser since it gives them a non-lethal option when dealing with people that use to be eligible for deadly force.
Posts: 4580 | From: Walnut Creek, CA | Registered: Jul 2003
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At the CEC here and also "Major Magic's," when you pay for your salad you get a plate- it isn't like a normal salad bar/buffet. He would not have had his plate unless he paid- usually the plate is like your reciept. I suppose you could snag a plate out of the trash, or share a plate w/ your family members, but I cannot imagine this happens so often that it is causing a hug profit loss.
Most police officers are WELL aware of how "lawsuit happy" our society is these days. In MOST incidents they are careful about following procedure and making things are done the right way, especially in a place that is teeming with witnesses.
We all know how ready the media is to jump on something like this and make a big deal about it.
-------------------- "My Very Educated Mother Just Said Uh-oh! No...Pluto..."~ Steven Colbert Posts: 3256 | From: Somewhere in Ohio | Registered: Apr 2004
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I agree that a taser is better than a gun. However, would an officer pull a gun on a posible salad theif? I was shocked when they were trying to ban (they may have succeeded... I'm not sure) the use of pepper spray by police officers where I live. If I can carry the stuff, trained officers certainly should be able to, IMHO. If they use the spray instead of more deadly force (I say more deadly because I think some people could have a bad reaction to the stuff) I'm all for it. However I don't think stealing a salad should lead to the use of any kind of potentially dangerous force. If the cops ain't going to shoot someone running from my home with my TV set they shouldn't be able to taser someone suspected of taking a bit of letuce (and I do mean the leaf green veggie, not cash) from a kids resturant.
-------------------- "The question for joining the protected forum for real magicians should be:
What is the use of women?" Steve W. from JREF's 'This is no fun' Posts: 7622 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Chimera: I agree that a taser is better than a gun. However, would an officer pull a gun on a posible salad theif?
The situation escalated when he refused verbal comamnds. So, based on the rules of escalation for where I live you have 4 options. 1. Put hands on the person (which failed) 2. Pepper spray (which as dark blue said is not a good option with all the bystanders) 3. Baton (which as dark blue said is not a good option with all the bystanders. Also, it is very likely to cause physical damage to the person). 4. Taser (Personally I would rather be hit by a taser then a baton.) one thing to keep in mind when the police arrive on the scene they must always keep in mind that there is a firearm present. there is never a situation where a firearm is not involved once they arrive.
Posts: 4580 | From: Walnut Creek, CA | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:At the CEC here and also "Major Magic's," when you pay for your salad you get a plate- it isn't like a normal salad bar/buffet. He would not have had his plate unless he paid- usually the plate is like your reciept.
unless you live where this occurred, then we don't really know if that is the same policy they use at the CEC in the article.
quote:I agree that a taser is better than a gun. However, would an officer pull a gun on a posible salad theif?
HE WAS NOT TASED FOR BEING A SALAD THEIF!!!! Whether they are right or wrong about who escelated the situation, the police tased him because the altercation became physical. If the subject in question had pulled out a knife or gun, the officers may well have pulled their guns and tried to manuver to get a clear shot. Once article linked did mention that the officers tried a wrist lock (which often don't work) and in this case it was ineffective, and caused the altercation to end up on the lap of a lady. The use of the taser ended the altercation. IF the man did in fact push one of the officers first then he is no longer just an alledged salad theif, he is now also an alledged suspect of aggravated assault (at least in my state) which is a felony. Please try and understand, he was not tased for stealing a salad. He was tased to end a physical altercation.
I have been pepper sprayed, I have been hit with a baton, and I have been tased. I would rather be tased.
-------------------- I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. -- On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs by LTC. Dave Grossman, USA (Ret) Posts: 675 | From: Arizona | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Dark Blue: HE WAS NOT TASED FOR BEING A SALAD THEIF!!!!
Sure he was. The police would not have been called to Chuck E Cheese in the first place if he were not being accused of being a "salad thief". The police, who should have been trained in how to deal with uncooperative members of the public who are angry because they are being accused of, for instance, being a "salad thief", then proceeded to deal with the situation in such a manner that it led to them tasering an individual **AFTER he had fallen into the lap of a woman holding a 10 month old baby**.
Tasering someone may or may not be the right thing to do if they are actually resisting arrest or trying to attack a police officer (which is yet to be proven in this case) -- but tasering him **AFTER he had fallen into the lap of a woman holding a 10 month old baby**? Inexcusable.
I can't help wondering as well what the management of Chuck E Cheese thinks of all this -- whether they now in hindsight think that calling in the police over something this minor was actually worth it considering what ended up happening?
-------------------- If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr Posts: 18428 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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