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Author Topic: How the "Left" Stole Christmas
Simply Madeline
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
I did. In HIGH SCHOOL. That was, like, so late teens! [Razz]

You were in high school in the late teens? You're older than I thought you were.

quote:
Originally posted by Karmyn:
Wal-Mart is now allowed to say Merry Christmas. Funny thing is, my local Wal-Mart said Merry Christmas last year and one employee told me that she had never been told not to say it. Of course I live in a small town with almost no Jewish or Muslim population. Not freeworld, anyway.

Wal-Mart employees were never prohibited from saying Merry Christmas. Last year, Wal-Mart chose to minimize the references to Christmas in their advertising. This allowed them to use the same marketing collateral in multiple locations regardless of the predominant ethnicity or religion of the residents of the area. It was strictly an economic decision. This is an urban legend that really irritates me, as it puts me in the position of defending Wal-Mart!!

Edited because there is no such holiday as Christams, although there should be.

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
Upside-down trees are being marketed as a trendy, and allegedly more practical, alternative to the standard Xmas tree: rather like aluminum trees in the 60s and 70s. Putting the wider part of the tree at the top takes up less floor space, and some marketers claim it makes it harder for kids and pets to knock ornaments off.

Do you do this with just an artificial tree or a real one? Because if you use a real one, how do you keep it watered?
I don't do it with either kind of tree, 'cause it's silly. [fish]

The trees in question are artificial trees with the narrow part at the bottom, just above the stand, and the wide part at the top. They're designed to be displayed "upside down."

Even if you could figure out the watering, it wouldn't work with a real tree, because you'd have to put the point of the tree in the stand.

--------------------
How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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glisp42
I'm Dreaming Of A White iPod


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quote:
Originally posted by Cervus:
quote:
Originally posted by Monza305:
It's now all about spending your money on crap.

No, no. Christmas is all about feeling persecuted, preaching intolerance of everyone who believes something different than you do, and antidisestablishmentarianism.

Oh, and writing bad poetry to exercise your persecution complex.

Cervus, I think I love you. Not just for your points but your use of the word antidisestablishmentarianism.

glisp"English Nerd"42

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What does "Bookachow", "YOMANK" and other lingo mean?

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Cervus
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Thanks. I rarely get to use it in a sentence. [Wink]

--------------------
"There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen
Won't somebody please think of the adults!

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WildaBeast
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
Do you do this with just an artificial tree or a real one? Because if you use a real one, how do you keep it watered?

I don't do it with either kind of tree, 'cause it's silly. [fish]

The trees in question are artificial trees with the narrow part at the bottom, just above the stand, and the wide part at the top. They're designed to be displayed "upside down."

Even if you could figure out the watering, it wouldn't work with a real tree, because you'd have to put the point of the tree in the stand.

Ahhh. I had been picturing it hanging from the ceiling.

ETA: And why did the "author" of this put quotes around the word "Left"? Is he implying that they're not really the left?

I hate it when people put "quatation marks" around "words" that don't need "quatation marks" around them.

Wilda"laser"Beast

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"Unseasonable is an odd word to begin with. It sounds like it's describing something that it's impossible to sprinkle pepper on." -- Nonny

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Mouse
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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I swear it's crap like this that makes me want to send these people to Saudi Arabia so they can experience some real persecution as opposed the "Waah! They said Happy Holidays!" variety.

I frankly think this War on Christmas thing is an effect by the pCms to destroy the holiday because Christmastime makes people happy which makes them very sad, so they have to politicize it, thus sapping any joy out of the holiday.

--------------------
"You see? The mysteries of the Universe are revealed when you break stuff." Coop from MegasXLR

"I distrust who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." -- Susan B. Anthony

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Signora Del Drago
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Happy Everything of which I could think!

 -


Edited to change from "Happy Everything!" to "Happy Everything I could think of!"
Then changed to "of which I could think!" to keep Cervus happy. [lol]

--------------------
"This air we're breathing. Oxygen, isn't it?"~I’mNotDedalus, impersonating Vincent D’Onofrio.|"Sometimes trying to communicate can be like walking through a minefield."~wanderwoman
"Give people a break. It's not easy doing a life."~Joshua Halberstam

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Saint Gryphon
I Saw Three Shipments


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Oh the poor holiday stealing Christians getting back what they did.. what 2000 plus years ago. Taking all the "Pagen" rituals and converting them into Christian holidays.

Where do you think the tree comes from? Hint: It has nothing to do with Jesus.

Dec 25, is not the birthday of Jesus, it was usurped because of the winter solstice rituals.

What comes around goes around.

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Defender of dragons and slayer of fair maidens

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BringTheNoise
Xboxing Day


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And it's barely going around.

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"The United States Government: significantly less cruel and sadistic than the Taliban." - Dara

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Cervus
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Oh the poor holiday stealing Christians getting back what they did.. what 2000 plus years ago. Taking all the "Pagen" rituals and converting them into Christian holidays.

Where do you think the tree comes from? Hint: It has nothing to do with Jesus.

Dec 25, is not the birthday of Jesus, it was usurped because of the winter solstice rituals.

Sadly, there are as many people misinformed about the supposed pagan origins of religious holidays than there are pCms with persecution complexes.

--------------------
"There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen
Won't somebody please think of the adults!

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snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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*applauds Amigone*

that was exceptionally brilliant.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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moonfall86
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by Signora Del Drago:
Happy Everything of which I could think!

 -


Edited to change from "Happy Everything!" to "Happy Everything I could think of!"
Then changed to "of which I could think!" to keep Cervus happy. [lol]

You forgot Arbor Day, you tree-hater!
EDIT: Oh, I see it (I think the trees and sky might be Arbor Day anyway)

Speaking of trees, I second the "WTF is a Dream Tree?" question. I've always heard them called "Christmas Trees" or maybe "NFBSKing tree! I keep stepping on the NFBSKing needles!"

I would also like to say a few other things, but they've already been said- Kwaanzaa gifts are usually handmade, Ramadan isn't always in December, what does Jane Fonda have to do with anything, etc.

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Saint Gryphon
I Saw Three Shipments


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quote:
Originally posted by Cervus:
Sadly, there are as many people misinformed about the supposed pagan origins of religious holidays than there are pCms with persecution complexes.

Here
Unlike Easter, Christmas was not celebrated by the earliest Christians. It began to be observed in the late 3rd century AD as an alternative to pagan winter holidays.

Here
It's no coincidence that the two most important Christian holidays were once two of the most disgusting pagan celebrations, devoted to the blatant exhibition of adultery, gluttony, blasphemy and child sacrifice, behavior specifically forbidden by God.

And here
The traditional customs connected with Christmas have developed from several sources as a result of the coincidence of the celebration of the birth of Christ with the pagan agricultural and solar observances at mid-winter.

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Defender of dragons and slayer of fair maidens

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RLobinske
Deck the Malls


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quote:


Here
It's no coincidence that the two most important Christian holidays were once two of the most disgusting pagan celebrations, devoted to the blatant exhibition of adultery, gluttony, blasphemy and child sacrifice, behavior specifically forbidden by God.


That article contains an important factual error. The name Easter is not derived from Ishtar. The Oxford English Dictionary etymology says that it comes from the Old English Eastre, with the first recorded use by the Venerable Bede using the Northumbrian variant, Eostre in a description of the non-Christian English calender, in which the fourth month, Eostremonađ was named after a goddess named Eostre. No other details of the goddess or observance was given, except that it was abandoned long before, but that the locals continued to use the name for the Christian celebration of the same general time. For most languages, the name for the holiday is not Easter, but a variation on Passover.
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HollowMan
Deck the Malls


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A quick Google search of "Dream Tree" yields a single mention of an actual tree on the first page, and that's a maple tree.

So basically, I'm as lost as you all are.

--------------------
Heisenberg may have slept here.

I got an idea... an idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about.

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TrishDaDish
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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The only "Dream Trees" that spring to mind are the Angel Trees you can see at some malls - that's a bit commercial, what with buying something to help some kid less fortunate than you and all. You commie bastid.

Trish "It's run by a big syndicate, you know" DaDish

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I would prefer not to.
My blog

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Cervus
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Saint Gryphon:
quote:
Originally posted by Cervus:
Sadly, there are as many people misinformed about the supposed pagan origins of religious holidays than there are pCms with persecution complexes.

Here
Unlike Easter, Christmas was not celebrated by the earliest Christians. It began to be observed in the late 3rd century AD as an alternative to pagan winter holidays.

Here
It's no coincidence that the two most important Christian holidays were once two of the most disgusting pagan celebrations, devoted to the blatant exhibition of adultery, gluttony, blasphemy and child sacrifice, behavior specifically forbidden by God.

And here
The traditional customs connected with Christmas have developed from several sources as a result of the coincidence of the celebration of the birth of Christ with the pagan agricultural and solar observances at mid-winter.

Let's try for some unbiased cites next time. That means websites that have no affiliation with Christianity. "Ask a Bible Teacher" is not the best source from which to learn about the supposed "digusting pagan" rituals of child sacrifice. You'll also notice a lack of cited information on all three of those websites. GoodNewsAboutGod.com cites the Bible as its only source. Funny, that's not known to include a historically accurate examination of pre-Christian religions. Try again, please.

--------------------
"There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen
Won't somebody please think of the adults!

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Saint Gryphon
I Saw Three Shipments


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Yes I know children don't get sacrifieced or anything of that nature. My point is that most Christians believe the holidays are taken from pagen holidays. And even the poem is talking about the pagen holidays pushing back.

*pagen meaning anything non-christian

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Defender of dragons and slayer of fair maidens

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Pseudo_Croat
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Religioustolerance.org's Christmas articles, including origins, practices, and controversies. Even has an artivle on Festivus!

Another site that gives a balanced look at the pagan origins of Christmas symbols.

Hope these are better.

- Pseudo_Croat

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"At all events, people who deny the influence of smaller nations should remember that the Croats have the rest of us by the throats." - Norman Davies, Europe: A History

God wants spiritual fruits, not religious nuts.

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Minstrel gone caroling
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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The priest from my old church told me that another reason the early Christians set the birth of Jesus in late December was because it was a Jewish tradition. If they didn't know the date of a prophet's birth, they'd set it for 9 months after his death. So 9 months after Passover could quite easily land around the Solstice. I don't have a cite for this tradition, but maybe someone else has heard of it?

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Last year's goat was burned down by vandals dressed up as Santa Claus and the Gingerbread Man. They were never caught.
My blog. The Adventures of the Fish O'Thwacking.
Countdown: 177 days (or less!)

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Yleemjseg
Deck the Malls


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I thought the upside down trees hung from the ceiling also, so as no to take up so much floor space. I just found a picture of one, and it looks more like a stalactite to me, which brings christmas back to its true caveman origins.

I won't be getting an upside down tree because it's not proper Christmas. Jesus didn't have an upside down tree, so neither will i!

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Nonny Mouse, on Santa's laptop
Once in Royal Circuit City


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The thing that bothers me about the upside-down trees is, where are you supposed to put the angel?

Nonny

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When there isn't anything else worth analyzing, we examine our collective navel. I found thirty-six cents in change in mine the other day. Let no one say that there is no profit in philosophy. -- Silas Sparkhammer

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Here's a picture of an upside-down tree. They'd still take up less floor space than a regular tree.

Nonny, maybe the angel hangs upside down. . . [Eek!]

--------------------
How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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Cactus Wren
Jingle Bell Hock


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Which is worse, the upside-down tree (which, someone in the USA Today article points out, has "something sisister, almost bad about it" -- after all, it subverts the symbolism of the conventional "pointing to heaven" tree), or the tree made out of pink feathers that I saw at Michael's Crafts?

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“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.” -- Edward R. Murrow

IOToriSparrowANK!

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Midgard_Dragon
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
I think I threw up a little in my mouth.

Ditto.

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Midgard Dragon
-==UDIC==-
MidgardDragon's MySpace

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Sylvanz
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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I wouldn't get an upside down tree. I think it would make me woozy.

P&LL, Syl

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Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. — Voltaire

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RLobinske
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Non-Aquatic Mouse:
The thing that bothers me about the upside-down trees is, where are you supposed to put the angel?

Nonny

I'd think an angel standing on the nice, flat top would look a little more dignified than one that has the top of the tree disappering under her skirt...

ETA: correct embarassing typo (yet again)

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Ink Rose
Deck the Malls


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I need an upside down tree! My sister's house is really huge, it has a high ceiling, like 30 feet up, but the family room is getting crowded. Practical! And the cat would stop vomiting (he eats the fake pine needles a lot). The only problem is if it fell it could kill someone, and I don't know how to get it that high up. Hmmmm...

Well we celebrate Christmas just in my immediate family, because we're fairly secular in our celebration wheras the rest of my extended family are all religious nuts. I'm an aetheist, the rest of my family are lapsed catholics. Also my BIL is Jewish, so we like to celebrate various holidays with him and his family sometimes. I haven't seen the death of Christmas. Just consumerism, but then again that's not new.

My family does seem to follow a mysterious religon known as am-erican phootball, but it seems to be msotly the guys.

--------------------
Website: http://stu.aii.edu/~krm184
Comic: http://elfhome.keenspace.com

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Thomas Newton
Tic Tac Dough


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Ryda Wong,

“How the “Left” Stole Christmas.” --great poem, who is the conservative poet author?

Canuckistan,

Your definition of “horrible poetry” is almost as good as someone from San Francisco, so I take that as a compliment.

Ryda Wong,

Conservative poets are not looking for converts. They are looking for other conservative poets!

freshacconci,

“It just took a quick google to find his stuff. pretty much says it all.” --I hope that it doesn’t say it all--I still have a few poems left in me--hopefully enough to finish my second book titled, “The Conservative Poet.”
Google search--I hope you used "Thomas Newton""conservative poet"

Zachary Fizz,

“I believe he is an Objectivist”--I greatly admire Ayn Rand, but I am not an Objectivist, as I am a Christian minister. Ayn Rand worshiped the creation (man) instead of the Creator. Christmas is in April, not December.

Flow Chloe,

“Why doesn't right-wing poetry scan?...Bah. I hate incompetence.”--you must love my poetry then--it scans.

MERRY CHRISTMAS,

--------------------
Thomas Newton
Conservative Poet

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Mistletoey Chloe
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Dear Thomas Newton, Conservative Poet,

If one is writing poetry that is supposed to scan, having it actually scan is necessary to make it good poetry, but sadly, nowhere near sufficient.

Happy Hannukah,

FlowY Chloe
xx

--------------------
~~Ai am in mai prrrrrraime!~~

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Dara bhur gCara
As Shepherds Watched Their Flocks Buy Now Pay Later


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Hey Thomas, how come you aren't writing any more of your, er, unique poems anyway? I had a look at your website, and you haven't posted a new one since that one which said the 9/11 victims were all in hell or something. Which is something I still profoundly take issue with, by the way.

Have you lost your (ahem) muse or something?

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This wrinkle in time, I can't give it no credit, I thought about my space and it really got me down.
Got me so down, I got me a headache, My heart is crammed in my cranium and it still knows how to pound


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Thomas Newton
Tic Tac Dough


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Flowy Chloe,

Shalom.
xx

--------------------
Thomas Newton
Conservative Poet

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Signora Del Drago
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Dear Thomas Newton. Conservative Poet(TM),

Huh?

What else do you do besides get in a conservative huff? Just curious.

Sincerely,

SDD

PeeEss~Happy New Year (on March 21).

ETA: I thought this guy's name looked familiar. Looky here, from June 30, 2006,
quote:
Originally posted by Dara bhur gCara:
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas Newton:
Now you know why I am the only one. No one else would put up with this crap.

Thomas,

You appear to have joined this board purely to promote your own work and to advance your idiosyncratic perspective on what is and isn't proper poetry.

You'll forgive us if we take your complaints about 'put[ting] up with this crap' with a pinch of salt.

From June 6, 2006, but not from the same link. I can't find the thread right now for some reason.:
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas Newton:
Chloe,

"I've been trying really hard to think of good conservative/
rightwing/republican modern poetry ever since."

I'm the only one.

Thomas Newton
Conservative Poet

And take a look at his profile. [Razz]

--------------------
"This air we're breathing. Oxygen, isn't it?"~I’mNotDedalus, impersonating Vincent D’Onofrio.|"Sometimes trying to communicate can be like walking through a minefield."~wanderwoman
"Give people a break. It's not easy doing a life."~Joshua Halberstam

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Pogue Ma-humbug
Happy Christmas (Malls are Open)


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quote:
Originally posted by Thomas Newton:
“How the “Left” Stole Christmas.” --great poem, who is the conservative poet author?

You're kidding, right? Do you really believe that's a "great" poem? Please explain what's great about it.

It truly sucks, in meter, rhyme, and content.

Pogue

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Let's drink to the causes in your life:
Your family, your friends, the union, your wife.

Posts: 11325 | From: Kentucky | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Pogue Mahone:
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas Newton:
“How the “Left” Stole Christmas.” --great poem, who is the conservative poet author?

You're kidding, right? Do you really believe that's a "great" poem? Please explain what's great about it.

It truly sucks, in meter, rhyme, and content.

Pogue

It reminds him of his own "great" poetry?

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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