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Author Topic: BEST EXPLANATION EVER immigration issue
snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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The above title is how it came to me...I searched for this under the title as well as "immigration issues" and the opening line, in the main UL site, and did not find this. Sorry if I overlooked it and must be chowed - but here it is, ladies and gentlemen, straight from my inlaws who delight in making sure I have plenty of good material with which to form my opinions on such matters. Here goes:

____

A lady wrote the best letter in the Editorials in ages!! It
explains things better than all the baloney you hear on TV.

Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the
country protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the
issue of illegal immigration. Certain people are angry that the US might
protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this
country and, once here, to stay indefinitely. Let me see if I correctly
understand the thinking behind these protests.

Let's say I break into your house. Let's say that when you
discover me in your house, you insist that I leave. But I say, "I've made
all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors;
I've done all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and
honest (except for when I broke into your house).

According to the protesters, not only must you let me stay, you
must add me to your family's insurance plan, educate my kids, and
provide their benefits to me and to my family (my husband will do your
yard work because he too is hard-working and honest, except for that
breaking in part).

If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my
friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my right to be
there.

It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I
do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm hard-working and honest,
um, except for well, you know.

And what a deal it is for me!! I live in your house,
contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do
about it without being accused of selfishness, prejudice and being an
anti-housebreaker. Oh yeah, and I want you to learn my language
so you can communicate with me.

Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?! Only in
America ....if you agree, pass it on (in English). Share it if you see the
value of it as a good simile. If not blow it off, along with your future
Social Security funds.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Pseudo_Croat
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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The best expalnation for the illegal immigration issue is (IMHO) that there is no issue. I don't see why people still make a fuss about it.

- Pseudo_Croat

--------------------
"At all events, people who deny the influence of smaller nations should remember that the Croats have the rest of us by the throats." - Norman Davies, Europe: A History

God wants spiritual fruits, not religious nuts.

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biol-nerd
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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wow, talk about simplifying the issue! I'd like to see America's economy thrive as much without illegal labour. Actually, that would be great, maybe then Americans will stop buying gas-guzzling monster trucks! : )

--------------------
truth and beauty

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Sandman
Deck the Malls


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There is a difference between someone's private property (their house) and a whole country. No specific individual owns The United States of America, as much as certain people would like to change that.

In fact, by the exact logic of that comment, we should pretty much all be kicked out and the continent given back to the Native Americans, 'cause the pesky Europeans surely wern't invited here. (It must be noted that our African-American brothers and sisters can't really be blamed, since they really weren't given much choice in the matter. But they still weren't invited, so out they go, too.)

Not that I'm advocating that, or advocating completely open borders. I'm just pointing out the danger of over-simplifying an issue that much.

--------------------
"I will tell you in another life, when we are both cats."

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Dropbear
Angels from the Realms so Glurgy


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Let's say I break into your house. Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you decide to employ me (at low wages, with poor conditions and with the ongoing threat of deportation) to make all the beds and wash the dishes and do the laundry and sweep the floors; I do all the things you don't like to do. I work hard and am honest And then, after I’ve done all this work for you and ask for some security you decide that I have to leave – because you can easily find some other person to do the job later and it serves the overall purpose of keeping me insecure.

According to the protesters, not only must you let me stay, you must give me the basic rights other people in the country are entitled to.

If you try to deny me the chance of citizenship, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that point out what’s happened. You will then call the INS and have me deported.

It's only fair, after all, because you have readily used my services to get what you want on your terms and conditions and now I’m just being uppity.

And what a deal it is for you!! I get substandard wages and living conditions, I’m blamed for all manner of social evils, I live in constant fear of being summarily removed from my home and there is nothing you can do about it without being praised for being tough on border protection, national security and crime. Oh yeah, and I have learnt your language because being multilingual is seen as too much or a challenge for you.

Why can't people see how ridiculous this is?! Only in America (and Australia, and many Western countries) ....if you agree, pass it on (in English).

Dropbear

--------------------
" The villagers had said justice had been done, and she'd lost patience and told them to go home, then, and pray to whatever gods they believed in that it was never done to them. -- (Terry Pratchett)

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Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Found two hits for it in newspapers both in the letters to the editor section. This is a partial hit with a signature. And this isn't available yet without subscription so we can't determine who sent it yet. These two papers are in two different states, PA and WI. Could they have been sent to two newspapers by the same writer? Surely no one send this to newspaper editor claiming authorship for something he didn't write.


ETA: If you use Google Web rather than Google News, you find it all over the place. Can't seem to figure out it's origins though.

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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I've been argueing about this issue a lot after the crash and burn of the recent Swedish election, where a racist party gained some seats in some towns.

Basically, immigrants are the cheapest source of labour a nation can have. They come fully grown, educated and ready to work. Compare this to domestically produced labour, which takes about two decades to produce, two expensive decades as they require education, health care and keeps their parents from doing other productive work part of the time.

Embrace immagration, bring them into the society and use the labour it provides to build a stronger economy for everybody.

--------------------
/Troberg

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Gaia
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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I don´t really have to say anything about the OP because I am sick and tired of hearing about it. I am not for or against it, I won´t even go there.

But as a mexican living extremely happy and confortable in mexico with absolutely no desire to go to the US (well, except for shopping sprees), I have really been feeling the aggresion and racism in most posts and blogs I have read on the internet. It is sad that sometime during the last 5 yrs it has been permited to post derrogative comments against mexicans.

I was expecting the same for this post, but I was pleasantly surprised. I want to thank everybody for keeping this thread discussion civil. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but not to insult.

This is getting glurgy, so I´ll stop now.

--------------------
Smile....It confuses people!

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snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Gaia, it is my impression that the vast majority of Mexican immigrants who come to America are coming here, not because they don't like or love their home country, but out of economic desperation.

My impression is that although they love many things about America, they do love and miss their homeland desperately and if they'd had a tolerable situation there, they'd have stayed there. People who have managed to make a good living, in Mexico, aren't the ones who are just uprooting their family and leaving other family members and friends behind, risking their lives, to start over again in a strange country. - That's how it seems to me. It sounds as if you are doing relatively well and therefore why would you want to leave? Mexico is a beautiful, wonderful, culturally rich place.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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TrishDaDish
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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A while back, Ma was ranting about this issue, and I said, "Isn't it amazing how you and everyone else in the nation has completely forgotten our people are in Iraq, and suddenly this, which has been going on forever, is suddenly majorly important?"

Really. I mean, it's been said before, but what is she (and these other fear mongers) worried about? They're working crap jobs no one from our own country would want for less pay. Are you telling me if they were all gone, people would just be clawing each other to be working in the produce fields and other menial jobs with no chance of advancement? You can't even get people to want to work at burger joints*, never mind the mind numbing labor like that.

*The burger joints around here are full of young people from other countries. Wendy's is mostly staffed by Hispanics. McD's is staffed by Hispanics and kids from European countries - I'm not even sure from where, sounds like a Russian accent on one gal, but I could be totally wrong. And they're very nice and helpful and doing the job that the American kids wouldn't do with as much energy. (Our Burger King, case in point. All staffed by Americans, and all they do is yell at each other, fighting - including the manager, in front of customers - and don't even fake a smile when taking your order. Which is why we don't go there anymore.)

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I would prefer not to.
My blog

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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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So what the original writer is really trying to say is that she feels the same degree of visceral disgust, fear and violation at the sight of Mexican people in the USA as she would if she found a burglar in her home. Right...
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snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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I just heard on NPR this morning that the apple growers are having trouble getting harvesters (are there fewer immigrants so far up north, I wonder - I would imagine so?) and are having to up their pay to 15 dollars an hour to get their apples picked.

They didn't say anything about immigrant labor one way or the other in the article, just that they couldn't get pickers and were having to pay more and that as a result, apple prices are probably going up.

I'd like to know how immigrant labor does or does not play into this scenario although it wasn't mentioned.

On one hand, I don't want to pay a lot more for apples...on the other hand, people making a good wage instead of a crap wage will be spending their paychecks and helping the economy so I don't know what I think about that story.

I do see your points, Trish.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Ink Rose
Deck the Malls


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We want cheap labor from under the table workers that we can pay ecen less then the law says 'cause they're not legal, and we want our monster cars. But we want to kick them out and turn our noses up at them. We can't have it both ways people, make up your minds! X_X

Nice one, Dropbear [Big Grin] We had a debate in school, the side I was on (anit-immigration - technically against illegals and less people allowed in) vs the other side, was against the pro-immigration open the doors up side. Our side was the right one in terms of use of logic (we did really well, according to the impartial judge. The argument was in our favor, but thew side that had the moral right was the other side.

It sure me think. What was nice though was that I since I am pro immigration in view, I got to see the other side by trying to support it for the debate.

--------------------
Website: http://stu.aii.edu/~krm184
Comic: http://elfhome.keenspace.com

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babyshoes
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Originally posted by Troberg:

Embrace immagration, bring them into the society and use the labour it provides to build a stronger economy for everybody.

Troberg, my thoughts exactly (well, except I spell "labour" differently). [Big Grin]

I like the idea of a "Union of the Americas;" something like the European Union. Could be good for all the countries as long as the U.S. didn't try to be the big bully.

Oh, wait... we might have to wait a long time for that.

--------------------
"When Jesus said to love your enemies, I think he meant don't kill them." from a song by Linda K. Williams

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Arriah
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by babyshoes:
I like the idea of a "Union of the Americas;" something like the European Union. Could be good for all the countries as long as the U.S. didn't try to be the big bully.

Oh, wait... we might have to wait a long time for that. [/QB]

You're very funny [Big Grin]

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Conforming meant that everyone liked you except yourself
Rebecca

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Purple Cow
Deck the Malls


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Why doesn't anyone ever break into my house just to clean it? [Frown]

I'd even let them join in the feasting upon the Hebrew Nationals we got this morning.

Come, clean. You know you want to...

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No one ever wants the super boob.
-Dr. Heisler, American Dad

Baby Alex!

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babyshoes
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Cow:

Come, clean. You know you want to...

Maybe that's the answer! Have people break in to my house to clean it--they would run screaming as far away as possible! I know I do... [lol]

--------------------
"When Jesus said to love your enemies, I think he meant don't kill them." from a song by Linda K. Williams

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Tantei Kijo
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Cow:
Why doesn't anyone ever break into my house just to clean it? [Frown]

I'd even let them join in the feasting upon the Hebrew Nationals we got this morning.

Come, clean. You know you want to...

Those were my sentiments exactly. I'd be willing to have a live-in maid, if as mentioned in the OP their behavior was impeccable after the initial transgression. [Wink]

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Bender: Though you may have to make a metaphorical "deal with the devil". And by "devil", I mean the robot devil, and by "metaphorically" I mean get your coat. ------------ My sad site: A new way to be bored.

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jw
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Troberg:

Basically, immigrants are the cheapest source of labour a nation can have. They come fully grown, educated and ready to work. Compare this to domestically produced labour, which takes about two decades to produce, two expensive decades as they require education, health care and keeps their parents from doing other productive work part of the time.

Embrace immagration, bring them into the society and use the labour it provides to build a stronger economy for everybody.

Troberg, I coudn't agree more. For as long as I remember and history tells me long before that, we've continually exported educated people to prosper worldwide.

In recent times we've had the reverse. Educated eastern Europeans have arrived here in their droves this past decade, and I'm in no doubt that they will bring the same benefits to Ireland that our diaspora have brought to other countries in the past.

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On my old guitar sell tickets, so someone can finally pick it.

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TrishDaDish
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Someone better get on Bob Geldof's case for when he was working illegally in Canada with no work visa and several fake IDs in the 70's.

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I would prefer not to.
My blog

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jw
The First USA Noel


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IIRC, Geldof had private schooling, hence educated and valuable, even if he was illegal.
I read he was a music journalist for the weekly "Georgia Straight" publication in Vancouver. How did he get that public job as an illegal?

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On my old guitar sell tickets, so someone can finally pick it.

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beaver_slayer
Deck the Malls


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I'm slightly surprised... if noone wants to do the job at the legal price you're offering then, maybe, you just can't have it done at that price. It's pretty similar to software piracy: "I can't afford it, but I want it anyway, so let's legalize pirating publishers after they've been out on the market for some time". There's a crusade against the whole MP3-sharing thing led by industry, but everyone is pretty much OK with illegals as long as they "know their place" (same apply to legal immigrants, too).

Yeah, a great increase: from 5 to 15 buck an hour for apple picking. Have you ever picked apples? Do you know how many pounds can be picked in one hour? Hell, I bet you won't even notice the difference - unless you frienldy local grocery store decides to squeeze extra profit and will raise prices by a larger margin.

The real problem with illegal immigration is that as a shadow activity it generates tax evasion and some way more shady business practices. Even legal first-generation communities tend to follow the common practices somewhat loosely, to say the least. The problem gets even worse when it comes to illegals.

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TrishDaDish
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by jw:
IIRC, Geldof had private schooling, hence educated and valuable, even if he was illegal.
I read he was a music journalist for the weekly "Georgia Straight" publication in Vancouver. How did he get that public job as an illegal?

Sorry for the delay in responding. I got the info from Geldof's autobiography Is That It?:

quote:
We moved in with Devon and looked for jobs. It was not easy because we had entered on tourist visas and were not officially allowed to work. That restricted us to the kind of employers who were not too fussy about whether we had social security numbers.
Later on, still in Canada (working for Georgia Straight, which apparently was one of the places that didn't care about social security numbers. He calls the newspaper as "underground", so prehaps that's why they were so lax), a page in the book later...

quote:
I applied for a social security number, changing my middle name and date of birth in an attempt to confuse the computer. If it had checked my real name against the immigration records it would have discovered my tourist status and I'd have been thrown out of the country. I decided that utter confusion was my best bet so I filed in the name of several Robert Geldofs, all with different middle names and all with different birthdays. It worked, because eventually I got two cards. In the meantime I set about collecting as many makeshift bits of ID as I could; bank cards, blood donor cards, anything so long as it had my name on and looked official.


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I would prefer not to.
My blog

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