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Author Topic: Can a good Muslim be a good American?
Major D. Saster
The First USA Noel


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That "Allah is a Moon God" thing is a cliché that appears in many Chick tracts... just like the Pope being Satan's agent.

On the other hand, what do the OP mean by "a good Muslim" ? I have a few friends I consider "good Muslims", and they are just like good Christians, good Jews or good Atheists. Open-minded, tolerant, respectful and pragmatic people who see different opinions not as a threat, but as a chance to learn.

One can't be a good-whatever if religious prejudice comes first. In France, a fundie imam who preached that "Muslims should follow the Shariah, which is God's law, and not the inferior, man-made laws of the French Republic" was put into the next plane to Algiers. I can't disagree with that. But there are also catholic fundies who worship Franco or Pinochet as "defenders of the Faith" and preach that democracy is the Devil's work and should be abolished... in the US, you have those scary preachers à la Phelps.

So, if the opening question was "can a religious fanatic of any brand or make be a good and decent citizen in a democratic country ?", the answer is NO... IMHO.

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Desperate, but not serious.

Posts: 689 | From: Confoederatio Helvetica | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
After some of what I have read on these boards and sites like chick.com, I would certainly have misgivings if this nation were to embrace Catholicism.
Not only that, the Catholics invented the idea of a pope. Since then, some Coptic sect and Orthodox Christians hastheir own popes. Then, inspired by this, came Dischordianism, which claims that every man, woman and child on earth, regardless of faith, is a pope. If one plots the number of popes against time in a graph and extrapolate that curve, it's easy to see that in just a few decades, the earth will be covered in a 200 km thick layer of popes.

Yet, for some reason, no one ever talks about this imminent danger. What more proof do we need? Catholics are intent on destroying not only our way of life, but the very civilization.

And they don't want me to eff whoever I want without making babies...

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/Troberg

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DrMerkwuerdig
I Saw Three Shipments


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This "Catholicism is not Christian" myth seems to be pretty widespread in the USA. An girl from Oakland (not a Christian fanatic, but in fact a Chinese immigrant without strong religion) once asked me "are you Catholic or Christian?".

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Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity

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Zachary Fizz
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by DrMerkwuerdig:
This "Catholicism is not Christian" myth seems to be pretty widespread in the USA. An girl from Oakland (not a Christian fanatic, but in fact a Chinese immigrant without strong religion) once asked me "are you Catholic or Christian?".

Yeah, I had much the same experience many years ago when I dated a Singaporean Protestant woman. She was a member of an American-style Baptist church. And a British atheist ex-girlfriend (who was raised in a Jewish cultural context) honestly believed (and for all I know still believes) that the high point of Mass was when we drink the still-warm blood of a slaughtered goat. I still feel bad about telling her that.
Posts: 2370 | From: Arabia | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Major D. Saster
The First USA Noel


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Bah - apparently, she just confused "mass" and "black mass". Maybe she was colour-blind. [Wink]

Joke aside, I knew a printer in Berne whose main customer was a swiss preacher from a small protestant sect who translated Chick tracts in French and German, gave them to his followers or even exported the french ones to French-speaking african countries.

Reading these tracts, I learned to my amazement [lol] that Pope John Paul II was the Antichrist, the Catholic Church was the Great Harlot of the Apocalypse and Rome was the New Babylon.

Being myself an atheist from a Calvinist family, I don't have too much sympathy for the Church of Rome, but I thought this kind of flaming puritan rethoric straight from the Wars of Religion was a little too much in the late XXth century.

Little did I know that 20 years later, that kind of fire-and-brimstone Christianity would become so powerful. I laughed myself sick reading those tracts, then. Now I don't find them so funny anymore.

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Desperate, but not serious.

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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My ex-h, who is Jewish, grew up in a neighborhood where almost all the Gentiles were Catholic -- or at least all the ones he knew. So for years, he assumed that anyone who described themselves as Christian was Catholic -- sort of a reverse of the prejudice discussed here, except that in his case it was purely ignorance. He really didn't understand the concept of Protestantism, let alone that there were dozens (hundreds?) of Protestant sects.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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Sister Ray
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
My ex-h, who is Jewish, grew up in a neighborhood where almost all the Gentiles were Catholic -- or at least all the ones he knew. So for years, he assumed that anyone who described themselves as Christian was Catholic -- sort of a reverse of the prejudice discussed here, except that in his case it was purely ignorance. He really didn't understand the concept of Protestantism, let alone that there were dozens (hundreds?) of Protestant sects.

Hey, I thought that too when I was a kid! Although it was based on the fact that most Christians I knew were Catholics, it was further fueled when my grandmother, who works at a nursing home, would come home and complain about the old ladies raising a fuss about the church service. "Is it a Catholic service?" they would ask. "I won't go if it's Protestant!" My grandmother would always then say it was the same God. Now, I knew Christians of other denominations, but for years I thought "Protestant" was some strange alien religion, sort of like the Hare Krishnas.

I also didn't realize that other religious sects allowed their clergy to marry, and was scandalized when I heard about minister's children and spouses.

Sister "who wound up being neither anyway..." Ray

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The Organization. Adam Haseeb Memorial Pages. My library.

"There can't be a war on Christmas. Even Cambridge has decorations up!" - an observation I made

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Izzy Quigley
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by DrMerkwuerdig:
This "Catholicism is not Christian" myth seems to be pretty widespread in the USA. An girl from Oakland (not a Christian fanatic, but in fact a Chinese immigrant without strong religion) once asked me "are you Catholic or Christian?".

I've actually heard the opposite a lot - people automatically equating Christianity with Catholicism. It's usually people who don't belong to any Christian denomination, though.

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A Viennese fellow is walking along the Karntner Strasse and notices a banana peel lying in his path. "Alas," he sighs, "now I must slip and fall down!"

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Purple Iguana
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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Hmm... considering that most Middle Eastern countries are not 100% Muslim, but are also partly Christian or Jewish... it seems that a "good Muslim," according to this yahoo's forwarded reply, can't live ANYWHERE ON THE PLANET.

(Maybe Antarctica... but no, there are often researchers down there who have different religious backgrounds. Bottom of the ocean? Nah... this idiot probably thinks it'd be unclean in some way since some creatures are bisexual. Oy...)

Purple--so says the chick whose Muslim husband thinks this guy hasn't once cracked open the Qu'ran--Iguana

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They just don't make crazed, beserk robots like they used to. --Sheen Estevez, Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius

If I manage to post something swipe-worthy that you would like to make your sig, you may do so with my blessing.

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