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jg
The Red and the Green Stamps


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I received this email today from a veteran. The first paragraph seems very suspect to me because it doesn't seem that the beginning of WWII was that clear cut.

jg

quote:
World War II Info

1. The first German serviceman killed in the war was killed by the
Japanese (China, 1937), the first American serviceman killed was
killed by the Russians (Finland 1940), the highest ranking American
killed was LtGen. Lesley McNair, killed by the US Army Air Corps.
So much for allies.

2. The youngest US serviceman was 12 year old Calvin Graham, USN.
He was wounded in combat and given a Dishonorable Discharge for lying
about his age. (His benefits were later restored by act of Congress)

3. At the time of Pearl Harbor the top US Navy command was called
CINCUS(pronounced "sink us"), the shoulder patch of the US Army's 45th.
Infantry division was the Swastika, and Hitler's private train was
named "Amerika". All three were soon changed for PR purposes.

4. More US servicemen died in the Air Corps than the Marine Corps.
While completing the required 30 missions your chance of being Killed was
71%.

5. Not that bombers were helpless. A B-17 carried 4 tons of bombs and
1.5 tons of machine gun ammo. The US 8th Air Force shot down 6,098 fighter
planes, 1 for every 12,700 shots fired.

6. Germany's power grid was much more vulnerable than realized.
One estimate is that if just 1% of the bombs dropped on German industry
had instead been dropped on power plants German industry would have
collapsed.

7. Generally speaking there was no such thing as an average fighter
pilot. You were either an ace or a target. For instance Japanese
ace Hiroyoshi Nishizawa shot down over 80 planes. He died while a
passenger on a cargo plane.

8. It was a common practice on fighter planes to load every 5th round
with a tracer round to aid in aiming. This was a mistake. The tracers
had different ballistics so (at long range) if your tracers were
hitting the target 80% of your rounds were missing. Worse yet the tracers
instantly told your enemy he was under fire and from which direction.
Worst of all was the practice of loading a string of tracers at the
End of the belt to tell you that you were out of ammo. This was
Definitely not something you wanted to tell the enemy. Units that
stopped using tracers saw their success rate nearly double and their
loss rate go down.

9. When allied armies reached the Rhine the first thing men did was
pee in it. This was pretty universal from the lowest private to
Winston Churchill (who made a big show of it) and Gen. Patton (who had
Himself photographed in the act).

10. German Me-264 bombers were capable of bombing New York City but
it wasn't worth the effort.

11. A number of aircrewmen died of farts. (ascending to 20,000 ft.
in and unpressurized aircraft causes intestinal gas to expand 300%).

12. The Russians destroyed over 500 German aircraft by ramming them
in mid-air (they also sometimes cleared minefields by marching over them).
"It takes a brave man not to be a hero in the Red Army" - Joseph Stalin

13. The US Army had more ships than the US Navy (and probably still does).

14. The German Air Force had 22 infantry divisions, 2 armor
divisions, and 11 paratroop divisions. None of them were capable of
airborne operations. The German Army had paratroops who WERE capable
of airborne operations. Go figure.

15. When the US Army landed in North Africa, among the equipment
brought ashore was 3 complete Coca Cola bottling plants.

16. Among the first "Germans" captured at Normandy were several
Koreans. They had been forced to fight for the Japanese Army until
they were captured by the Russians and forced to fight for the
Russian Army until they were captured by the Germans and forced to fight
for The German Army until they were captured by the US Army.

17. German submarine U-120 was sunk by a malfunctioning toilet.

18. The Graf Spee never sank. The scuttling attempt failed and the ship
was bought as scrap by the British. On board was Germany's newest radar
system.

19. One of Japan's methods of destroying tanks was to bury a very
large artillery shell with only the nose exposed. When a tank came near
enough a soldier would whack the shell with a hammer. "Lack of
weapons is no excuse for defeat." - LtGen. Mutaguchi

20. Following a massive naval bombardment 35,000 US and Canadian troops
stormed ashore at Kiska. 21 troops were killed in the firefight. It would
have been worse if there had been Japanese on the island.

21. The MISS ME was an unarmed Piper Cub. While spotting for US
artillery her pilot saw a similar German plane doing the same
thing. He dove on the German plane and he and his co-pilot fired their
pistols damaging the German plane enough that it had to make a forced
landing. Whereupon they landed and took the Germans prisoner.
I don't know where they put them since the MISS ME only had 2 seats.

22. Most members of the Waffen SS were not German.

23. The only nation that Germany declared war on was the USA.

24. During the Japanese attack on Hong Kong British officers objected to
Canadian infantrymen taking up positions in the officer's mess. No enlisted
men allowed you know.

25. Nuclear physicist Niels Bohr was rescued in the nick of time
from German occupied Denmark. While Danish resistance fighters provided
covering fire he ran out the back door of his home stopping
momentarily to grab a beer bottle full of precious "Heavy Water".
He finally reached England still clutching the bottle.
Which contained beer.
I suppose some German drank the Heavy Water.



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laocoon
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Just off hand, #1's kind of silly. It's my understanding that the war went from 1939 - 1945, with the US (officially) joining in 1941. This makes all the dates suspect.

Besides, the first overt act of the Germans was to invade Poland. What were they doing in China?

#11 makes you wonder what the effects were on the lungs and #15 is just silly.


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Kathy B
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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According to the Royal Danish Embassy
quote:
Bohr was in a very exposed situation in occupied Denmark and at the beginning of 1943 he received the first letter from England via illegal channels. The Nobel Prize winner, James Chadwick, who had discovered the neutron, gave Bohr to understand that he would be very welcome if he were to leave Denmark. Bohr realized that he was in the Germans' search-light, but he was not yet ready to leave his Institute and his associates there, among whom were Jewish refugees. Not until the end of September was the situation so critical that Bohr and his wife felt compelled to take refuge in Sweden. From here Niels Bohr was flown to England in an English "Mosquito". It was a dangerous expedition - the small un-armed plane was to fly through airspace that was controlled by the Germans - and it was also difficult because the bomb--bay was the only place where there was room for a passenger. As, moreover, the oxygen supply failed Niels Bohr had a narrow escape in getting to England alive.
Other biographies mention that Born was smuggled to Sweden in a fishing boat by the Danish resistance, but all of the drama revolves around the flight to England, not a frantic run out the door witha bottle of water. Besides, he could alwys get heavy water elsewhere--the Americans & the British knew how to make it.

[This message has been edited by Kathy B (edited 09-29-2000).]


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BoKu
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:

11. A number of aircrewmen died of farts. (ascending to 20,000 ft. in and unpressurized aircraft causes intestinal gas to expand 300%).

There might be a grain of truth in there, but there is a lot of technical inaccuracy.

To start with, the atmospheric pressure at 20,000 feet is only a little less than half of the pressure at sea level. When you go that high, it doesn't make the pressure of the gasses in your guts increase, it just reduces the counterpressure applied by the atmosphere on the outside of your body. A lot of the containment pressure of the intestinal gasses is applied by the mechanical restraint of the gastro-intestinal tissues and musculature, not by the atmosphere. So, yes, the pressure of the gasses in there does cause your guts to rumble a bit as the counterpressure is reduced. But, no, they are not expanding by any 300%.

But I can say from firsthand experience that farting is an important thing for high-altitude flight. When I took the Beale AFB altitude chamber ride to 25,000 feet, it felt like there was a gale in my pants. The instructors are careful to warn you to eat carefully before the ride, and also to instruct new students in the slouching posture that allows for unimpeded fartage.

In AFUspeak, I'd label this one Fb - probably nobody died of farting, but maybe one or two died of _not_ farting. And they probably had the really greasy stuff for breakfast.

Bob "heh-heh, he said fartage" K.


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Anthony
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
1. The first German serviceman killed in the war was killed by the
Japanese (China, 1937), the first American serviceman killed was
killed by the Russians (Finland 1940), the highest ranking American
killed was LtGen. Lesley McNair, killed by the US Army Air Corps.
So much for allies.

This is not a silly as it seems.

Asian historians date the beinging of WWII in 1937 -- when Japan invaded China proper (an arguement can be made that it began in 1931, when Japan invaded Mancuria).

European powers had troops in China, soi it is possible.

As for McNair, I believe he was killed in a "friendly fire" incident when the Army Air Force (not Air Corps, it got that designation in 1940 or so) was using carpet bombing to open a hole in German lines. Some of the bombs fell short.

I will look into some of teh otehrs.

Offhand, although I have no num,ber right now, I believe that by the end of teh war, non-Germans outnumbered Germans in the Waffen-SS and I know the German Air Force had a substantial ground force. But after Crete in 1941, NO German airborne attacks (other than small comando type attacks and one small brigade size drop during the Battle of the Bulge in 1944) were possible due to losses of paratroops and equipment in the Crete assault.


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Dagobert_XIII
The Red and the Green Stamps


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The sholder patch of the 45th Infantry division actually WAS a swastika. See:
http://www.45thdivisionmuseum.com/DivFormed/Divformed.htm

For a picture. This was an American Indian symbol, reversed from the Nazi swastika, but called by the same name. It was replace by another American Indian symbol, the firebird.

In a similar vein, many elite units in the British Army used the same 'deaths head' emblems as the SS. They were at one time a common military symbol before they were coopted and ruined by the Nazis.


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Chava
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
9. When allied armies reached the Rhine the first thing men did was pee in it. This was pretty universal from the lowest private to Winston Churchill (who made a big show of it) and Gen. Patton (who had Himself photographed in the act).

The part about Patton is true. But what was Churchill doing with the front-line troops in Germany????

Chava


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chinpira
The "Was on Sale" Song


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Dagobert, the picture of the swastika in the link is the same as the nazi swastika, I think. The original swastika, as used by various people in the past, can be differentiated from the nazi swastika by the direction of the 'L'. The 'L' in the nazi swastika is reversed, while the 'L' in the original version looks like a regular 'L'.
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bryan
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by chinpira:
Dagobert, the picture of the swastika in the link is the same as the nazi swastika, I think. The original swastika, as used by various people in the past, can be differentiated from the nazi swastika by the direction of the 'L'. The 'L' in the nazi swastika is reversed, while the 'L' in the original version looks like a regular 'L'.

Not always. Although it was more common, both were used prior to the Nazis.


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Chava
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
20. Following a massive naval bombardment 35,000 US and Canadian troops
stormed ashore at Kiska. 21 troops were killed in the firefight. It would
have been worse if there had been Japanese on the island.

Found information here:

quote:
Although the occupation of Kiska was achieved without enemy opposition, it nevertheless was conducted under combat conditions until the landing was well underway.
....

At 0244, 18 August, it was learned that the Abner Read had been severely damaged by an underwater explosion. While reversing course at five knots, the ship had her fantail blown off, probably by a mine. The vessel was able to proceed to Adak in tow of the Ute, but 61 personnel were listed as missing and 26 were injured.

By 0800 on the 18th enemy contacts ashore were still negative, although 26 casualties had been caused by mistaken identity in the heavy fog. ...


Apparently the Japanese abandoned Kiska about 10 days before the invasion. Other mines were found on the beaches.

Chava


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Silas Sparkhammer
I Saw V-Chips Come Sailing In


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quote:
Originally posted by chinpira:
. . . the picture of the swastika in the link is the same as the nazi swastika, I think. The original swastika, as used by various people in the past, can be differentiated from the nazi swastika by the direction of the 'L'. The 'L' in the nazi swastika is reversed, while the 'L' in the original version looks like a regular 'L'.

As was noted later, both versions pre-date the Nazi era. I have a beautiful old red- leather bound collection of the works of Rudyard Kipling, each volume gold-stamped on the spine with a picture of an elephant, the title, and a swastika that is oriented in the way the Nazis used it. It was a symbol from India, just like the elephant, meant to symbolize Kipling's association with India. The publishing date is 1901.

Silas Sparkhammer.

------------------
"...With trembling heart and failing nerve, cried, 'I approve, without reserve!'"


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Gus
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Silas Sparkhammer:
It was a symbol from India

It still is a symbol in India. It is used in Hindi. I believe it represents peace. An Indian friend of mine- her family had the symbol on their door mat to mean 'welcome'.

According to the link above, the 45th replaced the swastiki with the thunderbird. I think it's ironic that a military group would use as its symbol that "was an American Indian symbol signifying 'sacred bearer of happiness unlimited.'" Hey everybody the 45th is coming! They bring unlimited happiness! Hey- why are they shooting at us?


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Kathy B
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
The youngest US serviceman was 12 year old Calvin Graham, USN.
He was wounded in combat and given a Dishonorable Discharge for lying
about his age. (His benefits were later restored by act of Congress)
Here is a picture of Calvin. Scroll down about 3/4 and be prepared to listen ot a sappy rendition of "America the Beautiful". Calvin was wounded at the Battle of Guadalcanal & received a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart. A TV movie, Too Young the Hero", was made about him. According to at least one report, the Navy did discharge him dishonorably and take back his medals, but all was restored by act of Congress.

[This message has been edited by Kathy B (edited 09-29-2000).]


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Eternal
The Red and the Green Stamps


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I'm not the expert, but my brother here says that no Me-264s were even BUILT. He also is pretty confident that the Graf Spee was actually sunk, but who knows.
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Dagobert_XIII
The Red and the Green Stamps


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From:
http://www.uwm.edu/~jpipes/grafspee.html

The Graf Spee settled in the mud with most of its superstructure still above water. I would be very surprised if the British did not board it and remove any useful intelligence and equipment.

The Captain of the Graf Spee was so humiliated by his failure to properly scuttle the ship that he commited suicide the next day.


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Jeremy Thorne
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by jg:
19. One of Japan's methods of destroying tanks was to bury a very
large artillery shell with only the nose exposed. When a tank came near
enough a soldier would whack the shell with a hammer.

The Japanese Kamikaze practice certainly gave them quite a reputation for suicide tactics.

While I can't vouch for the buried artillery shell, I can tell you about the Baka bomber. Late in the war, the Japanese did resort to building these creepy things. They were literally cruise missiles with cockpits. No landing gear, no parachute, just 2,000 pounds of explosives, a rocket engine, and a tiny cockpit with a way to steer.


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trollface
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Gus:
It still is a symbol in India. It is used in Hindi. I believe it represents peace. An Indian friend of mine- her family had the symbol on their door mat to mean 'welcome'.


The house that one of my freinds has just moved in to has a swastika on the floor in the doorways to each room, meaning the same thing.

And, Jeremy, isn't the whole Kamikazi thing just a myth?


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Oso
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Trollface

And, Jeremy, isn't the whole Kamikazi thing just a myth?


Is that a bad joke, or what ?

Oso


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