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El Camino
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quote:

Source: Duke Rape Accuser Pregnant RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) -- The woman at the center of the Duke lacrosse rape case is pregnant and due to give birth any day, roughly nine months after the team party where she says she was raped by three men in a bathroom.

The pregnancy was confirmed late Thursday by a person familiar with the case, speaking to The Associated Press on the condition of anonymity. Both Fox News and WRAL-TV in Raleigh reported she gave birth Thursday night.

There had been no prior indication the woman, a 28-year-old college student who already has children, was even pregnant. She has not spoken in public since granting a single interview to the News & Observer of Raleigh shortly after the party.

The person who confirmed the pregnancy to the AP had no information about the father. Defense attorneys have stressed for months that no sex occurred at the party and they have cited DNA testing that found genetic material from several males in the accuser's body and her underwear - but none from any member of the lacrosse team.

It's looking more and more like after all the hullabaloo, the accused were actually innocent. And I think this throws a whole new twist into things. Since absolutely no DNA from any of the accused was found on the alleged victim after extensive testing, it seems highly unlikely that one of them was the father, unless something was seriously botched. Could this pregnancy somehow tie up into her "motive" for a false accusation?

I'm curious to see what people think "really" happened - especially as to why she would be motivated to falsely accuse these guys of rape. (I'm not saying that's definitely the case, but the DNA evidence is a pretty strong indication, IMO.) It seems as though the pregnancy might play into it somehow - but I'm not really sure how. The article says there is evidence she may be bipolar, which would explain some things - although that may just be negative publicity by the defense.

Thoughts, anyone?

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
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Other than the fact that I am heartily sorry that the allegations look to be untrue, I don't have much to add.

If it is the case that she lied, one can see why she chose the people she did.

Privilaged, mainly white kids, exercising their "god-given" right to be misogynist, racist assstetsons = tempting target.

Or, she might have gone through some sort of psychological break and latched on the most reasonable, understandable target.

I do, however, have a very, very hard time manufacturing much in the way for the men accused. Yeah, it sucks that they were drug through a media circus. However, they are, at the very least, guilty of the spirit of the crime, if not of the actual, physical crime. Hopefully, this won't make them more likely to go beyond their fantisies and inact them in reality.

It's a mess altogehter.

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Esprise Me
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I'm not sure what you mean about the pregnancy "tying into it somehow." Do you think this is part of her conspiracy against the accused? Do you think it's the reason she claimed to have been raped? If so, what do you make of the fact that she never came forward with the pregnancy, to the extent that we're only just finding out about it thirdhand after the child was born?

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El Camino
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A theory that me be a bit out there, but could make things interesting.

What if she was actually raped by another group of men - the ones whose DNA was actually found on her - either before or after the lacrosse party. Suppose she was drugged, drunk, or both at the time. So she has a poor memory of the incident, and can't remember well who actually did it, remembering only that she was raped. She does however, recall this Duke lacrosse party, and in her mind, due to some combination of drugs, hysteria and mental illness, links the two together. I've heard crazy things about the power of the mind and false memories - so maybe she really believes her story is what actually happened.

A little farfetched, but not unreasonable, really.


quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
However, they are, at the very least, guilty of the spirit of the crime, if not of the actual, physical crime.

I'm not really sure what you mean by this. Please elaborate.

Or are you just in the mood for a really good argument?

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El Camino
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quote:
Originally posted by Esprise Me:
I'm not sure what you mean about the pregnancy "tying into it somehow." Do you think this is part of her conspiracy against the accused? Do you think it's the reason she claimed to have been raped? If so, what do you make of the fact that she never came forward with the pregnancy, to the extent that we're only just finding out about it thirdhand after the child was born?

Well, she was impregnated right around the time that the alleged incident happened. Could be a coincidence, of course - but it seems likely that there is some connection between the two, as both being impregnated and accusing people of rape are generally rare events in most people's lifetimes.
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El Camino
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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
Other than the fact that I am heartily sorry that the allegations look to be untrue, I don't have much to add.

You're "heartily sorry" a woman wasn't raped? Not exactly in keeping with your image, hmm? Or is it?
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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
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quote:
Originally posted by El Camino:


quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
However, they are, at the very least, guilty of the spirit of the crime, if not of the actual, physical crime.

I'm not really sure what you mean by this. Please elaborate.

Or are you just in the mood for a really good argument?

Blech. I don't know if I am or not. I think that, with a bit of ingenuity, you could come up with a reasonable facsimile of what I would say. [Cool]

Point is, these men, like many men in positions of entitlement, act in a predatory fashion, and have those predatory actions reinforced (see all of the scandles involving college sports recritment and/or fraterinity misdeeds). They, quite clearly, found it acceptable to purchase women to be harassed and maltreated, and found it acceptable to treat those women (and other women not involved) as less-than-human due to their sex and race. And that willingness is what lies beneath rape, amoungst other things.

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Lainie
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quote:
Originally posted by El Camino:
quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
Other than the fact that I am heartily sorry that the allegations look to be untrue, I don't have much to add.

You're "heartily sorry" a woman wasn't raped? Not exactly in keeping with your image, hmm? Or is it?
Perhaps she's heartily sorry that a woman falsely accused men of raping her. I am. It's an action that has the potential to hurt actual victims of rape, as well as victimizing the falsely accused men.

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by El Camino:
quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong:
Other than the fact that I am heartily sorry that the allegations look to be untrue, I don't have much to add.

You're "heartily sorry" a woman wasn't raped? Not exactly in keeping with your image, hmm? Or is it?
No, I'm heartily sorry that the alligations, if untrue, will simply feed the anti-feminist "Women just make it up" screed. And I am heartily sorry that, if untrue, it will just make it harder for other women to come forward and be believed.

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Jay Temple
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Ryda is capable of speaking for herself, of course, but one could reasonably interpret her statement as, "It's unfortunate that someone was falsely accused." However, I'm with Elwood in waiting for an explanation of her statement about being "guilty of the spirit of the crime."

ETA: She did both while I was typing.

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GenYus
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I think she means that she is heartily sorry there is another story of false rape accusations out there that will make it harder for a woman with rape allegations to be believed.

ETA: True accusations of double-spanking.

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
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quote:
Originally posted by One-Horse Open Jay Temple:
However, I'm with Elwood in waiting for an explanation of her statement about being "guilty of the spirit of the crime."

Umm. I did. Look above the post I was writing when you posted.

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Jay Temple
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Yep, which is why I've since edited.

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Towknie
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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.:
(see all of the scandles involving college sports recritment and/or fraterinity misdeeds).

Oh hell, I was in a fraternity, and we almost never came in contact with women, paid or unpaid. We had the predatory nature of a small bait fish.

Edited because predatory "nature" is more accurate than "skills"

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Towknie: Ryda-certified as wonderful, enlighted, and rational.

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Towknie:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.:
[qb]Oh hell, I was in a fraternity, and we almost never came in contact with women, paid or unpaid. We had the predatory nature of a small bait fish.

Did I say all frats? Nope. However, having spent a great deal of time it two college towns, I've had my fill of those frats AND soroities that give the entire system a bad name, as well as the college athletic teams that do the same.

The writing and behavior of the men involved in the duke lacrosse scandle speaks for itself. These were not harmless college boys having a good time. They were jerks acting out the age-old rituals of entitlement.

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Lainie
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quote:
Originally posted by Towknie:
quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.:
(see all of the scandles involving college sports recritment and/or fraterinity misdeeds).

Oh hell, I was in a fraternity, and we almost never came in contact with women, paid or unpaid. We had the predatory nature of a small bait fish.
Well, if we're trading anecdotes, my female friends and I sometimes walked out of our way to avoid "Fraternity Row" because if the "boys" were out they'd harrass us. You might argue that such behavior isn't predatory (although we sometimes felt preyed upon), but they were hardly behaving respectfully toward us.

Oh, and one fraternity had a bulldog that they neglected and abused.

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RainyDaze
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Back on the pregnancy issue. The pregnancy adds a bit of complexity.

Was she raped?
Is the father on the lacrosse team?
Was the rapist (if any) on the lacrosse team?
Is the rapist (if any) the father?
Is she making the accusation of rape to explain an unplanned pregnancy? If so why?

These are all completely separate questions. Interesting to speculate on but ultimately futile. We do not have the evidence needed to answer the questions.

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Elwood
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quote:
I'm with Elwood in waiting for an explanation of her statement about being "guilty of the spirit of the crime."
Can't take credit for the statement. That was Ryda.

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Buckleupp
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quote:
Originally posted by El Camino:
[QUOTE] The article says there is evidence she may be bipolar, which would explain some things - although that may just be negative publicity by the defense.

I didn't see this in the article...did I miss something?

I'm curious as to what that things would be explained by her being bipolar?

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Towknie
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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.:
Did I say all frats? Nope. However, having spent a great deal of time it two college towns, I've had my fill of those frats AND soroities that give the entire system a bad name, as well as the college athletic teams that do the same.

Sorry, I was unsuccessfully trying to be self deprecating. Wasn't trying to defend the greek system as a whole.

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
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quote:
Originally posted by Elwood:
quote:
I'm with Elwood in waiting for an explanation of her statement about being "guilty of the spirit of the crime."
Can't take credit for the statement. That was Ryda.
I think he meant he was with El Camino in waiting for a response....

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GenYus
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quote:
Originally posted by RainyDaze:
Is the father on the lacrosse team?

Probably not if the defence DNA report is accurate. No DNA was found from any member of the lacrosse team.

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Jocko's Jolly
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It all seems a bit confusing still. There is apparently a statement released today from the hospital (I'll try to find a cite) that the accuser is there being treated for pregnancy concerns, but has not given birth yet. And the defense is saying that the accuser isn't due until February (and that she didn't get pregnant until 2 weeks after the alleged rape), which would mean that the pregnancy has no bearing on the case.

Didn't the defense also say in the last day or two that there is a report on the DNA that shows mulitple strains (is that the right word) of DNA from different men on the accuser, none of which match the accused (or, according to the defense, any of the lacrosse players). If this is true, then either El Camino's theory is credible or something else entirely happened.

In any case, it does seem that the prosecutors might have better served the accuser, the accused and the community if they had waited until they had their facts straight to start making accusations, much less filing charges.

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El Camino
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quote:
Originally posted by Buckleupp:
quote:
Originally posted by El Camino:
[QUOTE] The article says there is evidence she may be bipolar, which would explain some things - although that may just be negative publicity by the defense.

I didn't see this in the article...did I miss something?

I'm curious as to what that things would be explained by her being bipolar?

I was confused by this at first, as I could have sworn it was in there somewhere. I can't imagine just conjuring something like that up out of nowhere. But then I looked at the time of the article, and it was stamped around 1:00 pm, wherease I posted the OP around noon. The article had since been updated (it has been updated again, apparently, at 6:35 pm). Maybe they removed the bipolar assertions because they were irrelevant, or because they were poorly supported. Maybe the prosecution contacted the AP and had them change it, or something.

In any case, when I came home, the original article was still up on my screen (dated 10:20 am), and it did in fact mention her allegedly being bipolar.

[quote]The tenth paragraph in the original article:
Among the details cited are examples of how the accuser's story changed in the hours and days after the party; that she has a history of bipolar disorder; that she identified two people as having attended the party who were not there; and that she identified four attackers during the April photo lineup.[/quote

As of the 6:35 article, the article was basically totally rewritten, and that section removed.

So I'm not totally crazy, after all! (At least, I may be somewhat sane.)

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El Camino
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The article has been somewhat updated... Paternity Test Ordered in Duke Rape Case.

But the article contains mostly the same information, adding pretty much just this:
quote:
A judge Friday ordered a paternity test on a baby expected by the woman who has accused three Duke lacrosse players of rape. But both the district attorney and the defense rejected any possibility that one of the men is the father.

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Jocko's Jolly
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I can't edit my post any more, but I just wanted to clarify one thing I said -- it's the DA, not the defense, who is stating that the accuser is not due until February and that she got pregnant 2 weeks after the alleged incident. Sorry if I caused any confusion.

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Esprise Me
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Total hijack, but is anyone else disturbed by the way news articles online can just be edited like that, with little or no indication that information was removed? It's even better than what Orwell envisioned--no paper records to incinerate, just an electronic version to update! The only hope of proving the change was made is if someone (like El Camino) happens to leave the original up on a screen, or prints it out and saves it.

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