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Author Topic: New Jack the Ripper?
Richard W
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quote:
Originally posted by Tarquin Farquart:
The Telegraph have a typically sensitive take on it

quote:
Amid the welter of probation officers, right-on policemen, social workers, outreach workers, penologists, psychologists, do-gooders and bleeding hearts I soon realised I had only one ally in the cause of understanding less and condemning more.
Oh dear.
Who's his ally, the murderer?

quote:
We fell, in one of the recesses, to discussing the drugs problem. "You know," he said, "a few years ago they had a serious drugs problem in China. So they rounded up 6,000 drugs dealers and shot them in the back of the head. Result: they don't have a drugs problem." He said this without a trace of humour, and without a trace of disapproval. It is a remark on which, in the intervening years, I have often pondered.

I am doing so again now, as I consider the murders of five prostitutes (at time of writing) in Ipswich. I have always found prostitution instinctively revolting ...

... That really is a remarkably insensitive juxtaposition of ideas. Even though he seems to want to kill drug dealers, not prostitutes, it's hardly far off, is it? Maybe killing all the prostitutes would stop prostitution too...

I don't know why he keeps talking about how we would see that drug addiction was the reason most of these women were working as prostitutes "if we can bring ourselves to be honest" - it's hardly a secret. Every article I've read about the victims has pointed out that they ended up as sex workers after becoming addicted to heroin or crack. It's not a new insight.

(edit)

quote:
But these murders are not simply a real-life Inspector Morse, or a good salacious read in the red-top press before the roast beef next Sunday: they are a signpost of the way our increasingly horrible society is going.
For flip's sake. Has he never heard of serial killers targeting prostitutes before? If this is a sign of society "going" anywhere, then it's been going there at least since the 1880s...
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Tarquin Farquart
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by The Pikey Snow Queen:
quote:
Originally posted by Dara bhur gCara:
The Daily Mail thinks these murders are Kate Moss and Pete Doherty's fault. No, really.


Obviously prostitution has only existed since Kate Moss started snorting coke. I'm surprised it hasn't been blamed on illegal immigrants, that's more the Daily Mail's style.
They did speculate that the killer might be an immigrant IIRC. *sigh*

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Richard W
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quote:
Originally posted by Tarquin Farquart:
They did speculate that the killer might be an immigrant IIRC. *sigh*

Interview with a former Ipswich prostitute in The Guardian:

quote:
On a bad night there would be between 15 and 20 women working, and the customers were scarce or, worse, willing to exploit the women's desperation.

"The refugees - I shouldn't say this - but the refugees were the worst. They would offer you 5. Especially at this time of year, when it's freezing and the men know you need the money. But I've never done anything for less than 15. You can get a bag [of heroin] for 15."

Since the police are hinting that they think the murderer is a regular "customer" of the women, there might actually be reason to wonder if it's an immigrant, so they didn't pull that completely out of their bottoms. Don't see why it's more likely than a non-immigrant "john", though.
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Llewtrah
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I had a good old rant on my blog about that Torygraph article.

Not all prostitutes are addicts (I've met a few).
Not all punters are low-lives (ditto).

Before Doherty, Moss and their ilk, prostitutes were quite likely to take opium or gin. Some used these to make their trade more bearable. Some used their trade to finance these addictions. Madams sometimes plied their newer recruits with drugs (e.g. laudanum) or alcohol to make them more compliant and to make the act more bearable (especially if they were under-age or were first-night girls). This no doubt created an addiction which had to be financed.

I doubt supermodels and popular musicians played much part in the gin-sodden, laudanum-addled, opium-smoking sex-workers of the 1700s and 1800s. I'm sure there were men other than Jack the Ripper who preyed on street walkers, so serial killing of prostitutes isn't a new thing either (IIRC, at least one of Jack's victims was working on the night of her death because she was behind with the rent).

Of course, some of the theories about Jack's identity indicate that he was an immigrant or, at least, a foreign national.

Seems there's nothing new under the sun.

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trollface
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard W:
Don't see why it's more likely than a non-immigrant "john", though.

Because they're not British, silly.

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seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears.

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Richard W
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quote:
Llewtrah said:
I had a good old rant on my blog about that Torygraph article.

He mentions in the article that he lives near Ipswich, knows it well and thinks of it as a "rather nice place":

quote:
It is, in short, somewhere most of its inhabitants would consider to be a rather nice place to live.

Rather nice places to live do not, however, have five murders within days of each other, with perhaps more to come. What this illustrates is not the pervasiveness of prostitution, but of drugs and the cancer they create. Prostitution now is but one of the symptoms of that cancer, and these shocking murders with it.

I think he was just naive enough not to realise that there were any drugs or prostitutes here until these murders, and now his "nice" self-contained bubble is burst and he's upset about it.

I don't really get his point, though - he's blaming prostitution on drugs, not the murders, so how are the murders a sign of anything? Unless you consider serial killing an inevitable result of prostitution, I suppose, and therefore assume there wasn't any prostitution before the women were killed.

Either way he seems far more concerned at the existence of drugs and prostitution than he is about the murders.

I volunteer at a soup kitchen and used to do so at a "night caf" (it's temporarily closed at the moment - nothing to do with the recent events). Most of the customers are male, but there are some women, and the night caf used to get more. I speculated that one or two of the women who came in less regularly may have been working as prostitutes. There's no photo of "Jackie" attached to the interview, but from some of the things she says it's possible I would recognise her.

All five (known) victims have now been named and had photos released - I don't recognise any of them except possibly Paula Clennell. It's hard to tell from a picture, especially one that might be a few years old and pre-addiction.

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Andrew of Ware, England
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On the 'immigrant' issue, one of the reports I heard on the radio said that police are asking lorry drivers to come forward with information. Two of the bodies were found, apparently, close to the main road leading to Felixstowe with its large harbour.

The reporter did not say so, but it did cross my mind that perhaps the murderer is from the Continent - perhaps a lorry driver or someone who uses the ferry.

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
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From the Guardian

Great commentary on the media pornification of these murders and their victims.

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Llewtrah
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,1971681,00.html is also a saner view.

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Mistletoey Chloe
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I was nauseated this morning by a woman I saw interviewed on CNN about this. She said something like "It's just a matter of time before he gets someone who's just an ordinary mum!" There's no way, of course, that a prostitute could be anyone's mum, or ordinary in any way. Our concern should be in case he escalates, and kills women who don't deserve to die. [flame]

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Lainie
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard W:
I don't really get his point, though - he's blaming prostitution on drugs, not the murders, so how are the murders a sign of anything? Unless you consider serial killing an inevitable result of prostitution [snip]

That's precisely what many people think.

Edited to add disclaimer: I have no proof, of course, of what other people think. But I do see that sort of "what do you expect?" attitude toward murders of prostitutes. One more way to blame the victim, to separate them from the "ordinary mums" and "good girls" of the world. See Chloe's post for a sickening example.

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Jonny T
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For those able to get to Ipswitch, a Reclaim the Night has been called for 29th December, 7pm onwards, meeting at Ipswitch town hall, open to males and females. I may try to head down if have time/money.

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trollface
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I might be up for that. I'll have to see how I feel. It might strike me like the cafe love-in scene in Heathers, though. I'm unsure.

If I do go, and you do come, Jonny, we should hook up.

Incidentally, I passed the bottom of Portman Road this evening, on my way home, and saw no fewer than 7 police cars lined up in a row, with all the coppers huddled around in a group, listening to one of them speak. You can't say that they're not taking it seriously.

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seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears.

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Ana Ng
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by trollface:
If I do go, and you do come, Jonny, we should hook up.

Heh. Heh, heh. Heh, heh, heh. And post pics.

What?

ETA: Trollface, where's your sig from?

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trollface
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It's from a board I found when I was looking for help with some technical, computer-based problem I was having. Someone asked a question that had evidently been asked loads of times before, when he should have searched the board, and he obviously does this a lot, and just got a load of sarcastic replies. My sigline is what he replied back (all punctuation, capitalisation, spelling, etc. exactly as originally posted).

I just thought that it was hilarious on so many levels, not least because of the genius phrase "its shitting me to tears".

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seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears.

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trollface
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Well, the police have just been round on a door-to-door. Wish I'd have had something to tell them.

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seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears.

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The Pikey Snow Queen
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quote:
Originally posted by Mistletoey Chloe:
I was nauseated this morning by a woman I saw interviewed on CNN about this. She said something like "It's just a matter of time before he gets someone who's just an ordinary mum!" There's no way, of course, that a prostitute could be anyone's mum, or ordinary in any way. Our concern should be in case he escalates, and kills women who don't deserve to die. [flame]

Anneli Anderton had a five-year-old son, I guess he doesn't count. [Mad]

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Andrew of Ware, England
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Grrr. I'm angry now. I have just been listening to the Jeremy Vine programme on Radio Two. They were discussing whether the offer of a large reward is good or bad. caller rang in and said that he was not taking any interest in the story until the reward was offered. He is now looking at his neighbours and seeing if he notices any odd behaviour.

I see. So this person does not care whether the murderer is caught or not - unless he can get some money out of it.

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Andrew, Ware, England

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The Pikey Snow Queen
The First USA Noel


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Breaking news on the radio:

Police are looking for another missing girl.

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Nema stendur

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Dara bhur gCara
As Shepherds Watched Their Flocks Buy Now Pay Later


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quote:
Originally posted by The Pikey Snow Queen:
Breaking news on the radio:

Police are looking for another missing girl.

She's turned up safe and well, apparently. So that's something at least.

Incidentally, the Daily Mail have claimed that the chief suspect is a Polish migrant farm worker.

quote:
A migrant worker from Eastern Europe is being sought by police investigating the Suffolk strangler murders.

The man - who has not been seen since Wednesday - drives a dark blue BMW similar to the one in which victim Anneli Alderton was last seen alive.

He works on a farm close to where more than one of the serial killer's five victims were found.



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Mosherette
Deck the Malls


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It's just been reported on the radio that the police arrested a man in Felixstowe at 7.20 this morning, in connection with all five murders. No links yet.

Edit

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Silence should never under any circumstances be construed as agreement. A lot of the time, it's simply a reflection that someone just said something so stupid that no response could possibly do it justice. - Ramblin' Dave

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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Mistletoey Chloe:
I was nauseated this morning by a woman I saw interviewed on CNN about this. She said something like "It's just a matter of time before he gets someone who's just an ordinary mum!" There's no way, of course, that a prostitute could be anyone's mum, or ordinary in any way. Our concern should be in case he escalates, and kills women who don't deserve to die. [flame]

I've not seen or heard much of that attitude myself. It might be because I read The Guardian and they tend to be more careful, and perhaps the local media are being more sensitive about what they print (edit - or show, I meant), but the police statements and general attitudes do seem a lot more sympathetic in this case than in some others.

(The Guardian isn't perfect - some of their earlier stories did use the word "prostitute" far more than necessary, even after they'd established perfectly well what the women did for a living; in one case that I found jarring, they referred to one of the women as a prostitute immediately after a quote from her father saying that they didn't want her to be remembered as a prostitute.)

Anyway - as Mosh said - they've arrested somebody:

Man held over prostitute murders

quote:
A 37-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of murdering five women found dead at sites around Ipswich.
Let's hope it's the right person - the police didn't mess about too much if so. Good going...
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Andrew of Ware, England
A-Ware in a Manger


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I hope, of course, that they have caught the murderer. However, wasn't Peter Sutcliffe - 'The Yorkshire Ripper' - interviewed several times and released before eventually being arrested (in the mean time killing more women)? However, I do not think during these interviews that he was arrested.

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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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The guy arrested was from Trimley (near Felixstowe), rather than Felixstowe, by the way.

Somebody has set up a Wikipedia page about the 2006 Ipswich murder investigation with a summary. Note this bit:

quote:
Vicky Hall, aged 17, was from Trimley St. Mary in Mid Suffolk. Vanished on 19 September 1999, her body was found 5 days later 25 miles away in a river at Creeting St. Peter near Stowmarket. A local businessman was later tried and acquitted of her murder.
Apparently (non-official source) the police had a pretty good idea of who they were after by Saturday and were just waiting for evidence.
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Llewtrah
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What annoyed me was a Sunday tabloid turmpeting "Suspect" (story by man who claims he is a suspect as he'd used all 5 of the murdered girls in recent weeks) at a time when police were saying they didn't have any suspects and had not questioned anyone under caution.

Considering the way the media portrays all punters as low-lives, what sort of man boasts about using working girls?

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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Llewtrah:
Considering the way the media portrays all punters as low-lives, what sort of man boasts about using working girls?

The guy they actually arrested, it appears... the BBC have updated the story. Bizarre - I hope the newspaper interview won't be found to have prejudiced the case...

His name is Tom Stephens - the Mail was wrong about their Polish farm-worker, anyway. Saturday's Guardian did say they'd already spoken to the driver of the blue BMW.

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Llewtrah
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Flippin' 'eck. I hope it isn't a false lead. Beats me why someone would do an interview that cast suspicion on them, unless it's so he can later claim there's no chance of a fair trial.

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Zachary Fizz
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Richard W:

Somebody has set up a Wikipedia page about the 2006 Ipswich murder investigation with a summary.

According to the wikipedia entry, the murderer may have killed a further ten young women.
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Llewtrah
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quote:
Originally posted by Zachary Fizz:
quote:
Originally posted by Richard W:

Somebody has set up a Wikipedia page about the 2006 Ipswich murder investigation with a summary.

According to the wikipedia entry, the murderer may have killed a further ten young women.
Further 10 women rather 10 young women, though it depends on your definition of "young". 2 of the listed women are 35 and 42 years old.

A week ago, TV reports suggested that the 5 deaths in 10 days indicate someone who is out of control and who may want to be caught. The interview in the Sunday Mirror might related to "wanting to be caught" or might be the work of an attention seeker who will be charged with wasting police time. We shall have to wait and see.

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Zachary Fizz
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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Whatever their ages, it is utterly horrifying.
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jw
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Zachary Fizz:
According to the wikipedia entry, the murderer may have killed a further ten young women.

I read this last week that is a distinct possibility, that the recent murders were the end of a killing spree, rather than the beginning, and that the killer had now lost 'control'.
I would have thought that even killing just one person, would suggest 'losing control'.

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Llewtrah
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I just hope this arrest doesn't mean more working girls get killed because the arrested man is an attention seeker and the killer is still out there. Once the newspaper interview got printed, the police may have felt duty-bound to interview him whether or not he was a main suspect. We shall have to wait and see.

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BlueStar
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quote:
Originally posted by Dara bhur gCara:
The Daily Mail thinks these murders are Kate Moss and Pete Doherty's fault. No, really.

The Daily Mail Headline Generator needs years more development before it can come up with headlines as absurd as the real thing.
Posts: 1710 | From: Newcastle, UK | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Dara bhur gCara
As Shepherds Watched Their Flocks Buy Now Pay Later


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I'm in two minds whether or not I should link to this article, but here's the interview on Sunday with the man they've now arrested.

Regardless of Stephens' guilt or innocence, and of course we must assume innocence, I think this is a new nadir in British Tabloid Journalism. It's just so terribly tawdry:

quote:
Michael Duffy (Mirror Reporter): You seem an intelligent guy, you're a good-looking bloke. Why spend time with drug-addicted prostitutes? Why not find yourself a nice girl?

Tom Stephens: On paper I should be attractive, but there is something about me women do not like

You just know that Michael Duffy thinks he's Truman Capote or something.

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This wrinkle in time, I can't give it no credit, I thought about my space and it really got me down.
Got me so down, I got me a headache, My heart is crammed in my cranium and it still knows how to pound


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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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The BBC have updated their story again - it seems they also interviewed Stephens last week, although they say it was "for background purposes", which I assume means that they didn't directly publish or broadcast any of it (until now, anyway). As opposed to the Sunday Mirror's decision to plaster it all on the front page under the word "SUSPECT".

I guess these days it's inevitable that the media as well as the police will have spoken to the main suspects in a high-profile case like this one. Remember that Ian Huntley was interviewed on local news after the Soham killings, before his arrest. (In fact, it helped to lead to his arrest when somebody recognised him). You'd hope they would be responsible about what they did with the information, though.

If you read some of the things he told the BBC, he does seem to have been enjoying the attention. Not that that means anything one way or the other.

Posts: 8725 | From: Ipswich - the UK's 9th Best Place to Sleep! | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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