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Author Topic: Congresswoman assaults Capitol policeman
El Camino
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by pinqy:
quote:
Thus a poor, racially profiling security guard may assume that a distinguished looking older male is a Congressman
No, he wouldn't, though. At worst, he might not remember a particular name on a particular day, but he or she would recognize that person as a congressman, even if the name temporarily escapes them. They'd recognize the particular person and would not let in a "distinguished older looking male" unless they recognized that particular distinguished older looking male. It would never be the case of "I assume he's a congressman," but "I KNOW he's a congressmen." These aren't mall security guards, these guys are trained at FLETC...same place as the DEA, ATF, Secret Service...every law enforcement agency except the FBI.

pinqy

Come on now. I don't care how well trained they are, some of them are going to slack off. You are describing what they should do. I'm describing what could happen. They're not necessarily the same thing. It's impossible to keep and monitor a perfect security force of any size. You simply have to have a few guys who don't do their job perfectly.

Probably most do. Probably this guy did. Again, I see no evidence that he didn't perform his duty to the letter. But to say, absolutely, that every guard does his job to the letter, every time, day in and day out, is naive. No agency is perfect. You can't 100% throw out such a possibility. It is not likely, but neither is it inanely improbable.

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pinqy
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quote:
Come on now. I don't care how well trained they are, some of them are going to slack off. You are describing what they should do. I'm describing what could happen.
I'm telling you it doesn't. First, there's always more than one guard so both would have to be "huh, don't know that guy, but he looks ok, so we'll just let him walk around the metal detector without any ID at all." If they do not recognize you as one of the VIP exemptions, you're not bypassing security. Most lobbyists are "distinguished older looking males," hell, that's a large portion of the government. They don't let in people who look like they might be ok, they only let in people who are authorized. That doesn't mean mistakes can't happen, ("I thought that was Senator X") but really, you watch a guy bypass security with no pin, no ID, and ask the guards who that was, they will tell you 100% of the time.

Really, you people think a police officer with a salary of over $65,000/year is going to be thinking "Don't know him, but he looks like he could be in congress. I'll just let him walk by the metal detector and x-ray machine." No. Doesn't happen. One of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

pinqy

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
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Malruhn
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Pinqy, methinks your faith in the hired-for-just-over-minimum-wage security guards is misplaced.

We have FLETC trained guards in my building.

If you use enough bravado, you can convince them you belong there, no ID, no bag screening, nuthin'. The guards are employees of a local security company that has a Federal Protective Service contract, so the guards wear FPS badges and actually have arrest authority. Most are good - some are adequate - and some both suck AND blow.

I think your faith is a bit too strong.

The guards on the Whitehouse and Capitol building might be excellent - but this wasn't one of those buildings.

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pinqy
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Malruhn....The Whitehouse is guarded by the Uniformed Secret Service. The Capitol building, and all buildings used by Congress are guarded by the Capitol Hill Police who are most certainly not hired for just over minimum wage. So it is the same cops that would guard the Capitol. Your guards may be piss poor, but here, it's taken very seriously. How on earth do you think "bravado" could convince a cop that you're a Senator? It doesn't happen.

pinqy

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Mad Jay
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McKinney came on Bill Maher today and said that it wasn't racism. That and a lot of question-evading while trying to prove what a great senator she is

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Arrow-Tech IV
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A recent news show that I watched said that McKinney was called before a closed-door meeting of Democratic leaders who, basically, ordered her to apologize because this news case was making the party look bad while they're trying to make a bid for Congress.

My reaction, I have to admit, was some relief -- in that it appeared that the Democratic "leadership" was at least unified to the point that they could all meet in the same room.....

Edited to replace the word "session" with the word "meeting".

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ULTRAGLORIA
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quote:
Originally posted by Mad Jay:
That and a lot of question-evading while trying to prove what a great senator she is

That would be difficult to prove, since she isn't a Senator, she's a Member of the House of Representatives.

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NorthernLite
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Here's an editorial by Pulitzer prize winner Leonard Pitts Jr. that deals with the McKinney situation

Opinion

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ULTRAGLORIA
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quote:
Last week, somebody was beaten because he was black. Went hungry because he was black. Died because he was black.
Yet the face of racial injustice was Cynthia McKinney being asked for ID. You think there's something wrong with that picture?

Wow. In two very short paragraphs, this guy encapsulates many of my feelings about McKinney’s reaction to this incident. I think reactions like hers are a large part of why people can complacently ignore racism today. Because crap like this gets headlines, and who can take it seriously? If that’s the definition of racism, then there must not be much real racism around anymore.

I know that’s not true. But it’s stories like this that fuels that sort of thinking. And does a great disservice to those who really are on the receiving end of racism.

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Mistletoey Chloe
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Amazing. An opinion decrying racism and simultaneously attacking someone who decries racism. This is the kind of crap anyone who has ever worked to get rid of symptoms of prejudice has to face--"How can you complain about sexist language when woman face much bigger problems in the world?" Such a query ignores a couple of really important points. The first is that even apparently trival occurrences of prejudice are symptoms of larger problems in society, and the second is that the same people who are working to get rid of the smaller symptoms of prejudice are often the same ones working to get rid of the larger ones. It's not either/or. [analogy alert] After all, was sitting at the back of the bus really such a big deal? The bus didn't get there any sooner for the white folks, and I'm sure the seats in the back were just as comfortable. Hell, I *prefer* to sit in the back. What's the big deal? Right? People were going hungry and being killed because they were black, but Rosa Parks just had to play the race card over something as trivial as where to sit on the bus. And, as Pitts claims, "where race enters, stupid is seldom far behind." [analogy over]

To suggest, as the article sort of does, that the extent of McKinney's battle against racism is her scuffle with Capitol police is remarkably ignorant.

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ULTRAGLORIA
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I got out of the article that McKinney’s reaction to being stopped, and her press conferences and publicity about it, and even calling the actions of the officer racist in the first place, dilutes the public’s perception that real, harmful racism still exists in society.

Or at least that’s the interpretation I was reacting to.

I am sure that McKinney has been subject to real racial prejudice. Publicizing those incidents of real racism would have been beneficial. Publicizing incidents of real racism that happen to her constituents would have been beneficial. Crying racism as the reason a Capitol Policeman didn’t recognize her dilutes any further publicity of racism, no matter how real, she engages in. Like crying wolf.

Also, in my view, from what McKinney has said, she is engaging in more predjudicial behavior than the policeman could possibly. The worse he could have done, even by McKinney’s own account, is not recognize that she was a Congressperson because she was black.

The worse she did, by McKinney’s own account, is assume that, just because he was white, the guy stopped her for racist reasons. I’ve seen nothing in any of McKinney’s statements to show she knew the guard or had any previous knowledge that he treats black people different from white people. No, she seems to be assuming that because he’s white, he stopped her from racial motives.

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A Lie can run around the world before the Truth can get its boots on. - Terry Pratchett

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Arrow-Tech IV
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I agree with ULTRAPUNNY's assessment. I can't see anything that the cop could have done differently while still fulfilling his responsibility to protect the building and not let unauthorized people through. If he truly didn't recognize her, then he followed procedures well. I haven't heard her suggest that he did recognize her and was just persecuting her.

So, maybe the inability to remember faces of people of different races is SOMETIMES a form of subconscious racism. However, when I saw my father after six months apart, I didn't recognize him because his hair had turned silver and he had a few extra wrinkles on his face. I actually looked past him at the airport as he walked up to collect me.

We're the same race -- I just have a bad memory and I don't adjust well to physical changes.

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Arrow-Tech IV:
We're the same race -- I just have a bad memory and I don't adjust well to physical changes.

I have a bad memory for faces as well and I have to say I think that should count as a point against us should we ever try to seek employment as Capital Hill police officers. Somehow I think a good memory is probably more than an asset in any line of police/security work!

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Arrow-Tech IV
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But what's the primary role of a Capitol Hill police officer? Are they supposed to be equal to the congressional pages in their ability to recognize individuals OR are they supposed to be -- first -- individuals trained to protect and defend the Capitol?

I'd vote for the latter and say that, yes, I have a problem remembering my father's face, but a good police officer who can't remember the face of one out of maybe 600 individuals who are allowed to be visually recognized and allowed to pass (after she's changed her appearance), is probably still a good police officer with a decent memory.

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LOADEDGOAT
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I'm really sick and tired of hearing about McKinney. If that had been anyone else they'd be in the hoosgaw already. McKinney seems to have a problem with being female and being black....or she seems to think that other's have that problem towards her. Even with a high percentage of votes this last time, you could hear the collective groans all over the state.

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Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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It's already happened to others. Are any of them in the "hoosgaw"?
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pinqy
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quote:
Originally posted by Ganzfeld:
It's already happened to others. Are any of them in the "hoosgaw"?

Others? I'm not aware of any others assaulting Capitol Police like this.

pinqy

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wanderwoman
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I posted this before but it was awhile back. Here is the report on assaults on law enforcement officers . There is a section on assaults on Capitol Police. Especially if you look back at previous years in which all cases have been resolved, only the most egregious incidents seem to get prosecuted.

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pinqy
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By "others" I understood "other congresspersons."

pinqy

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wanderwoman
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Ganzfeld was responding to Loadedgoat's comment:

"I'm really sick and tired of hearing about McKinney. If that had been anyone else they'd be in the hoosgaw already."

ETA: emphasis added by me

The fact is that most people who are not Congressional Representatives who have done something similar would not "be in the hoosgaw already", as my link shows. I don't think McKinney should be treated any better or worse than someone else in similar circumstances.

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pinqy
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quote:
[b]The fact is that most people who are not Congressional Representatives who have done something similar would not "be in the hoosgaw already", as my link shows.
Except that your link shows nothing of the sort.
quote:
At the time of the assaults, 7 officers were performing arrests or serving summonses, 2 were on patrol or guard duty, and the other officer had custody of prisoners....Six of the suspects were awaiting trial at the time of this publication, and prosecution was declined for the other 4.
Since only 2 assaults took place during guard duty or patrols, those are the only relevant cases when comparing to McKinney. We don't know the specifics on if those two were prosecuted. It's perfectly reasonable that if someone is being arrested on other serious charges that the Capitol Police would not necessarily prosecute because why bother if the assailant is going down for a more serious charge anyway? Those circumstances are not comparable...a minor assault by say a murder suspect is not necessarily worth the hassle. So the data does not support that in a similar situation the Capitol Police would not or have not prosecuted.

pinqy

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LOADEDGOAT
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quote:
Originally posted by pinqy:
By "others" I understood "other congresspersons."

pinqy

When I typed "others", I meant the general population, period. Sorry for the misunderstanding. (boy, you guys/gals are tough in this snopes community [Wink]

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wanderwoman
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pinqy, it's not only the lack of prosecution. I can't imagine any such minor incident that would have been resolved at this early date by a person being locked up, even if the decision were made to prosecute. It takes time to get a case through the Courts, and if McKinney had already been arrested, there is no way a Court could fairly set bail high enough to keep her locked up until trial for an incident like this. Loadedgoat stated that anybody else would be locked up by now, and that's just not true.

If you look over the last few years reports from the FBI link and see the number of officers injured or seriously assaulted with weapons or vehicles, you can see that most of the minor assaults would have to be the ones not prosecuted. Aside from that, my experience with my local prosecutor tells me that unless the law enforcement officer is injured or killed or in danger of injury or death from the assault, an assault charge would be added on primarily in the cases where there are other charges, to give the prosecutor extra bargaining tools in the plea bargain.

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LOADEDGOAT
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quote:
Originally posted by wanderwoman:
pinqy, it's not only the lack of prosecution. I can't imagine any such minor incident that would have been resolved at this early date by a person being locked up, even if the decision were made to prosecute. It takes time to get a case through the Courts, and if McKinney had already been arrested, there is no way a Court could fairly set bail high enough to keep her locked up until trial for an incident like this. Loadedgoat stated that anybody else would be locked up by now, and that's just not true.

If you look over the last few years reports from the FBI link and see the number of officers injured or seriously assaulted with weapons or vehicles, you can see that most of the minor assaults would have to be the ones not prosecuted. Aside from that, my experience with my local prosecutor tells me that unless the law enforcement officer is injured or killed or in danger of injury or death from the assault, an assault charge would be added on primarily in the cases where there are other charges, to give the prosecutor extra bargaining tools in the plea bargain.

I wasn't talking about being "prosecuted" or "indicted", I was talking about being ARRESTED at the onset of the "assault", if that is what the incident was. If she struck him or pushed him in anyway, it's assault, period regardless of whether or not he was injured. She apologized about the incident, yes...but only AFTER realizing how far up the ladder the situation had gone. It was CMA time. That should make everything ok then huh? [lol]

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wanderwoman
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Can you cite any similar incidents in which people have been arrested? I'm not saying what she did was right, but in my experience (I work in probation) a minor incident like this would not result in being locked up, as you implied in your previous post, unless there were other charges as well. If people have been arrested in similar circumstances there should be a record of it.

I don't work on the federal level, but in the county where I work an incident like this would most likely have just resulted in a reprimand or ticket by the police officer involved unless the person had other charges.

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Ganzfeld
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I think you'd have a hard time arresting a member of congress on the way to work. (Especially if congress is in session. I don't know about this because no one seems to think the constitutionality of this situation is important enough to discuss.) The Capitol police know what they can and can't do. People keep saying members of congress don't have special rights but they do. I agree she sounds like a loose cannon and I'm glad she finally "apologized" but 1) People don't often get charged for this kind of thing and 2) Members of congress (black women or not) are allowed to be jerks when they're on the way to work. * It's hard for police and security guards but officials in DC get stopped for violations and so forth a lot with no ticket or arrest. It's a watse of time to press charges in such cases. The only reason we're seeing this in the news is because someone released the info (as Four Kitties asked, who? why?), her own loudness, the heightened security situation, and the place it happened. All of these things contributed to a story of something that sounds rare but happens all the time in DC.

* I should add 3) People don't get arrested for this kind of thing often anyway (as many people here have pointed out).

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Tazz
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Ok,, new to this forum,, and I have to add my comment after reading the news acounts and hearing it on tv and radio,, I have to say no realy foul,, yes she probably does have an attitude,,but how did she get past him in the first palce,I've been to many fed buildings and its one at a time through the doors and scanners, apparently someone wasn't doing his job in a fist place, and if I were a women today and was grabed , anywhere by anyone,, I would kick stomp and other wise do my best to disable said shit head. there is some question as to wheather she had her security badge on, and to that i have to say,, with my experience with fed buildings since 9/11,, how did she gain acess with out it. its all very he said she said, and personaly I don't care for the air of superiority on the part of law enforcement in the country today,,anyway just my thoughts on the subject, Have a happy Easter all [Big Grin]
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bufungla
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Several updates:

According to a police report, Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney struck the police officer in the chest with a closed fist. (That page also has links to a video and slideshow of Congresswoman McKinney's bodyguard shoving an Atlanta TV cameraman)

In an interview with another TV station, she refused to discuss the incident about the police officer, left the interview, and then proceeded to go off on her aide, while her mic was still turned on ...

quote:
Question: You want to talk about issues, has the confrontation made it harder for you to focus on the issues? Has it been a distraction?

McKinney: You're a distraction because that seems to be all you want to talk about – but people here understand that my representation is much larger than any discreet incident.

(OFF CAMERA, WITH MIKE STILL ON:)

Oh crap, now you know what? They lied to Coz and Coz is a fool for believin' 'em. [Referring to aide Coz Carson]

(BACK ON CAMERA, SEATED:)

Anything that is captured by your audio while I'm not seated in this chair is off the record and is not permissible to be used – is that understood?

Mike Machi, the assistant news director of the TV station, says McKinney's office was aware his reporter would ask about the incident in the one-on-one interview, and was unapologetic about airing the interview outtakes.

"Congresswoman McKinney has been in Washington for a long time and she has handled the media for most of her public life," Machi told the Journal-Constitution. "There were lots of ways to handle this and I was absolutely surprised that she handled this situation in that fashion."

(Forgive the orientation of the site, but it's the only site I could find that had text of the story and did not require registration - CNN has the story on video, and the Atlanta Journal-Constitution requires registration)

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"Pardon him. Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature."

George Bernard Shaw, Caesar and Cleopatra

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WonkoTheSane
Happy Holly Days


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That's gotta hurt. Looking at her expression, it was pretty embarrassing to feel likeshe had to come back out and say what she did, although she must have known that the media wasn't simply going to do what she said just because she asked them to. Her coming back out like that somehow made it look worse.

At any rate, I know this has nothing whatsoever to do with whether she broke the law in the ongoing case (as I believe she did), but it does say a bit about her character.

Wonko

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"It seemed to me that any civilization that had so far lost its head as to need to include detailed instructions for use in a package of toothpicks, was no longer a civilzation in which I could live and stay sane."

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Simply Madeline
The First USA Noel


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McKinney won't be charged.

quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) -- A grand jury declined to indict Rep. Cynthia McKinney on Friday in connection with a confrontation in which she admitted hitting a police officer who tried to stop her from entering a House office building.


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Mistletoey Chloe
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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? Is charged the same as indicted?

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~~Ai am in mai prrrrrraime!~~

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Seaboe Muffinchucker
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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A charge is
quote:
1) in a criminal case, the specific statement of what crime the party is accused (charged with) contained in the indictment or criminal complaint.
An indictment is
quote:
a charge of a felony (serious crime) voted by a grand jury based upon a proposed charge, witnesses' testimony and other evidence presented by the public prosecutor (District Attorney).
Seaboe

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Education is not the filling of a hard drive, but the lighting of a bulb. -- Yeats via Esprise Me

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Mistletoey Chloe
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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So she was charged, but not indicted? Aren't you charged by the police, but indicted by a grand jury?

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~~Ai am in mai prrrrrraime!~~

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Four Kitties
Layaway in a Manger


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Yes and yes. It means she was accused (by the police), but a grand jury did not find reasonable cause to prosecute. So the case has been tossed. If new evidence surfaces, however, she can be charged again: double jeopardy doesn't apply to grand juries.

Four Kitties

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If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales?

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