posted
I'm not confused about the word "pay". But even if its just a refunable deposit (for now) I still have to pony up the funds up front for the "privledge" of shopping in their store. I don't carry exact change with me as a matter of habit. Unless their are money changers in the lot it is a major inncovience to me. And, as I have mentioned earlier, it is also terribly insulting and its only done at the generic grocrey store here. Even Wal and K marts haven't yet sunk to that level of petty distrust. Evidently Aldi shoppers are more crocked than blue light hunters or Wallyworld visitors. It doesn't speak very highly for the store or how they view their customers.
-------------------- "The question for joining the protected forum for real magicians should be:
What is the use of women?" Steve W. from JREF's 'This is no fun' Posts: 7622 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote: And, as I have mentioned earlier, it is also terribly insulting and its only done at the generic grocrey store here. Even Wal and K marts haven't yet sunk to that level of petty distrust. Evidently Aldi shoppers are more crocked than blue light hunters or Wallyworld visitors. It doesn't speak very highly for the store or how they view their customers.
So, using your logic, I'm guessing you don't shop anywhere that has anti-shoplifting tags on their clothes? Or anywhere that has a security guard? Or anywhere with a CCTV camera?
...And when you go to the airport, I'm guessing you're insulted when they check your passport photo? Or when they run you through a metal detector? Or when they ask you if you packed your bags?
posted
I refer Chimera to the replies given earlier, which address most of the points since repeated. This is getting a little circular and boring now.
I get the impression it's not so much cart deposits you have a problem with, more anything you associate with Aldi. Perhaps it'd be better for you not to shop there.
(Edited to more accurately reflect what I meant to say.)
-------------------- But of course, I could be wrong. Posts: 858 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
posted
Because we have £1 and £2 coins, and therefore our change is worth something, I think it's more common here for people to have change (including a £1 for the trolley) in their pocket than it might be in America. Perhaps that makes a difference.
Posts: 8725 | From: Ipswich - the UK's 9th Best Place to Sleep! | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
Airport carts have a rental *fee* - you deposit some amount of money to get the cart, and there is a small "refund" available when you return the cart yourself. It's usually been $2 or $3 USD to rent a cart and the "refund" is typically 25 cents.
I have only ever seen grocery carts with 25 cent deposits to free the cart from its neighbour and use it during your shopping trip - the whole 25 cents is returned if you take the trouble to return the cart to the corral.
In France, back when they used Francs instead of Euros, the rental fee was FF10 - the largest value coin. This was worth about $2.50 at the time and was also *fully refundable* if you returned the cart.
*** Note the way how I have seen this work in Canada/US - each cart has a box with a locking mechanism near the handle, and a "key" on a short tether at the front end of the cart. As the carts are parked and "stacked" (with one cart inserted partially into the one in front of it), the "key" on one cart plugs into the lock box on the other in chain-like fashion. To free the cart from the end, you put in money and the "key" falls out free. When you return the cart, you push it into another cart until the tethered key reaches your lock box, and you collect your deposit. Each cart's lock box only contains *one* coin at most when a cart is free. There are multiple "return corrals" and you don't need to worry about some electronic device (like the airport cart machine) to return an adjusted amount of money.***
Sorry that this is so long, but for those who hadn't seen this, it could be confusing. I have never seen this arrangement with "attendants" who force you to pay for a cart before using one. Years ago, a friend of mind had a part-time job as "cart wrangler" - collecting orphaned carts from a huge parking lot. He got to keep the money on "orphaned) pay carts in addition to his minimum wage salary.
Note that this system has virtually disappeared in Canada. The maintenance cost on the boxes outpaced the savings of lost carts. People (typically men who rarely carry coins) would avoid taking carts and make smaller purchases.
-------------------- "The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat Posts: 1587 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Hero_Mike: I have never seen this arrangement with "attendants" who force you to pay for a cart before using one.
Me neither, did someone mention attendants earlier and I missed it? Either way, all the ones I've ever seen had the "lock box and key" arrangement you describe so clearly, and that's the system I thought we were discussing.
[kind of off topic] If I'd been laying bets on which of the current topics would end up as the subject of heated debate, I wouldn't have picked supermarket trolleys! [/kind of off topic]
-------------------- But of course, I could be wrong. Posts: 858 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I wonder what's to stop people from simply handing carts off to each other at the store entrance? I believe that's what would happen around here...kind of like holding the door for someone at the (rarely seen now) pay toilets.
I have to say that this sort of system would discourage me from shopping in a store that uses it.
-------------------- You fail to consider, for such is the tyranny of fashion, that the swan is not a slim animal... -Jincy Kornhauser, Melinda Falling Posts: 1762 | From: Charleston, West Virginia | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:I wonder what's to stop people from simply handing carts off to each other at the store entrance?
The person who took the cart loses his coin.
quote:I have to say that this sort of system would discourage me from shopping in a store that uses it.
...I'm sorry, what the hell !? It's a perfectly sensible system - how could this possibly offend you ?
-------------------- All along the untrodden paths of the future, I can see the footprints of an unseen hand. Posts: 6912 | From: Flanders | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:I wonder what's to stop people from simply handing carts off to each other at the store entrance?
The person who took the cart loses his coin.
If the person you got the cart from was handed the cart on the way in, they aren't losing a coin. Sorry if I was unclear. Much like the coin toilet...if there is a line, it is likely that the person using the stall before you would hold the door open for you, thus you would not need a coin. (Perhaps this is a "West Virginia" mentality, but I have seen this exact behavior in action)
quote:I have to say that this sort of system would discourage me from shopping in a store that uses it.
...I'm sorry, what the hell !? It's a perfectly sensible system - how could this possibly offend you ? [/QB][/QUOTE]
It doesn't necessarily offend me, I would just be more likely to shop at a place that doesn't require an extra step to get a cart. I can understand the reasoning behind the system, to a point. Just seems like there are better ways to handle the problem of cart loss. The local Kroger uses the wheel lock system, and it seems to work pretty well.
-------------------- You fail to consider, for such is the tyranny of fashion, that the swan is not a slim animal... -Jincy Kornhauser, Melinda Falling Posts: 1762 | From: Charleston, West Virginia | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:I wonder what's to stop people from simply handing carts off to each other at the store entrance?
The person who took the cart loses his coin.
If the person you got the cart from was handed the cart on the way in, they aren't losing a coin. Sorry if I was unclear.
(1) Why would anyone hand me a trolley?
(2) If someone did hand me a trolley, I sure as hell wouldn't hand it over to someone else when I'm done with it. I'd return it to the trolley station and collect the coin.
(3) Even if people did hand trolleys over to each other, who's the loser? The store isn't losing any money by customers using the same trolley over and over again. The only one losing money is the person who originally got the trolley from the trolley station.
quote:Much like the coin toilet...if there is a line, it is likely that the person using the stall before you would hold the door open for you, thus you would not need a coin.
The only coin toilets I've used were at McDonald's, and people often do what you describe. But that's because you won't get your money back when you leave the stall.
-------------------- -Oh, we'd all like to lick the great Superman, Jimmy. Posts: 2298 | From: Eastern Scandinavia (Sverige) | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
The practice discourages me from shopping at Aldi. No I don't have any particular beef with that store but its the only one around here that charges a rental deposit for trolleys. Have no fear, I've never actually bought anything from the store. In fact I only visited it twice. Once was when it first openned and then again a couple months later when I thought they might actually stock stuff I'd buy. It just reminded me of a downtown thrift store that tries to sell cheap generic crap to the poor residents that probably should get out of the house more often, stop listening to advertisments, and stop being afraid to go to other major chain stores. There might just be a better and more cost effective life out there if you just explore your world a bit. Oh hell, just shop exclusively at Shoppers Paridise (actually that's often a really cool store, where else can you get pink flamingoes in December?), Big Lots, and Aldi's and see if I give a damn. Ok, I do give a damn and the dollar store probably carries some of the same garbage for less. Even mall stores have sales and guess what? they sometimes have cheaper prices than the so called discout shops as well... amazing. The last place I'd ever want to shop is a grocery or liquor store in a poor area, that will almost insure you'll be paying top dollar for the goods. Although I could always stop by the next door rent to own center and pay $25 a week for five years to get a $100 colour tv in my living room today, horray. I see the Aldi ads and they seem to occasionally have some attractive loss leaders but stepping into the actual store makes one feel like a 3rd world refugee getting rapped in the ass. It might be different in other cities but here you might as well just bend over if you decide to shop at the place.
Chim "know the value" era
Oh yeah, back on topic (sort of). I used to refuse to eat at Red Lobster (20 years or so ago) because they had big security cameras at the entrance. It was highly unusual at the time and made me feel really uncofortable on two fronts. First I didn't like the idea of being filmed... second I didn't like the thought that the place was that dangerous that such a device was necessary. Oddly that particular resturant closed down years ago. I don't know why but I'd like to think it was because they tried to impliment the device before it was publically acceptable (it was the first place in this community to install such devices to the best of my knowledge)... or else that they got robbed blind, posibly despite the monstrosity, and the cameras where simply a reminder that it was a dangerous place to be. No, I don't really know the real reason that specific resturant shut down. I only know I stopped going there shortly after the thing was installed. I know I'm a bit shy at times but I couldn't have been the only one bothered by the obvious "big brother" presence.
-------------------- "The question for joining the protected forum for real magicians should be:
What is the use of women?" Steve W. from JREF's 'This is no fun' Posts: 7622 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I think the reason why you might only see them at Aldis is because IIRC, Aldis is a European company. Since cart rental is more common in the UK, they're probably just implementing the same measures here in the US. A store that implemented cart rental would get no more or less of my business. I'd probably just keep a quarter in a special spot in my purse for when I went there.
-------------------- I cannot live without books-Thomas Jefferson *~* A child educated only at school is an uneducated child - George Santayana I'm going to pummel you with such zeal, Buddha will explode! *~* Never miss a good chance to shut up - Will Rogers Posts: 6585 | From: Dallas/Fort Worth, TX | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Morgaine La Raq Star: A store that implemented cart rental would get no more or less of my business. I'd probably just keep a quarter in a special spot in my purse for when I went there.
I once went to Ikea, all by my lonesome, and bought some chairs. I had forgotten that one cannot take the carts to the parking lot, so I had to lock my cart into a corral and get my car. The corrals operate the same way as the grocery carts, but I didn't have a quarter on me. I had to beg some poor passerby into giving me one in exchange for 2 dimes and a nickel.
Like I said, the carts are slightly annoying to me (because I do tend to go to the grocery with just the debit card in hand), but the main complaints against the grocery store I mentioned earlier are the crowded store, poor selection, odd location and surly staff.
-------------------- catagenesis [evol]-evolution leading to decadence and decreased vigor. Posts: 480 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Morgaine La Raq Star: I'd probably just keep a quarter in a special spot in my purse for when I went there.
As almost all the supermarkets use this system, it's pretty common here to keep a "trolley quid" (which could be a pound coin, or pretty much any disc of metal about the right size that'll operate the latch) handy, for that very reason.
As I said earlier, I think it's a minor inconvenience compared to negotiating a car park full of wire-mesh chicanes. You can take my coin-op trolley when you prise it from my cold, dead... Well, actually, you can take it from the trolley bay when I've returned it.
-------------------- But of course, I could be wrong. Posts: 858 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Andrew of Ware, England: In a supermarket in Runcorn (a town in the north-west of England) they have trolleys that have a brake applied if you take them out of the car park. One person did not realise this and had parked her car at a nearby shopping centre.
Thus she couldn't get her shopping to her car. I, and a couple of other passers-by, then ferried all her shopping from the trolley to her car. Another passer-by stood guard over her trolley as we could not take all her shopping in one trip.
Now those are annoying. The closest supermarket started using those a year or two ago. Naturally at first people constantly got them stuck, drasticly increasing the number of carts left in annoying places. It got better but it still happens. Their system seems to be too sensative, it goes off if you just bring it near the edge of the lot. Plus its one pig parking lot shared by a few stores and it goes of if you take it too far from the supermarket's section.
And to top it off, it must not be very reliable because I've seen these carts abandoned on the street a few times.
Posts: 2352 | From: California | Registered: May 2001
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posted
I have to pay a £1 deposit to use a locker in the changing rooms at my local swimming pool. I put the coin in, the lock operates and I take the they key out. I go for my swim, put the key back in and get my pound back.
Anyone got any objections to that? I mean after all, aren't the pool's owners being highly distrustful of their customers, "making" us all "pay" £1 to stop people rifling through our things while we're putting in our lengths? I could always just leave them lying about in the changing rooms I suppose. (Or use a basket in the supermarket.)
I really, really don't understand why people have a problem with the idea. You are not losing anything. You put in a pound, you get a pound back. If you give your trolley to someone at the door, you lose your pound (unless they give it to you, which defeats the object, surely?)
-------------------- Silence should never under any circumstances be construed as agreement. A lot of the time, it's simply a reflection that someone just said something so stupid that no response could possibly do it justice. - Ramblin' Dave Posts: 8528 | From: Nottingham, England | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Hero_Mike: In France, back when they used Francs instead of Euros, the rental fee was FF10 - the largest value coin. This was worth about $2.50 at the time and was also *fully refundable* if you returned the cart.
[nitpick]We also had 20 F coins.[/nitpick] Now carts take 1 € coins, mainly because they're about the same size as 10 F coins, so that the boxes didn't have to be replaced.
quote:Note that this system has virtually disappeared in Canada. The maintenance cost on the boxes outpaced the savings of lost carts. People (typically men who rarely carry coins) would avoid taking carts and make smaller purchases.
That surprises me. I'd have thought that not having to pay someone to collect lost carts on the parking lot would have made up for it. At least it seems to be the case on this side of the pond, because such systems started to appear more than 20 years ago and now there probably isn't a single place in the whole country that doesn't use them.
-------------------- If you keep trying, you'll eventually succeed. Therefore, the more you fail, the higher your chances of success. -- Jacques Rouxel, 1931-2004 RIP :( Posts: 406 | From: Paris, France | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Anyone got any objections to that? I mean after all, aren't the pool's owners being highly distrustful of their customers, "making" us all "pay" £1 to stop people rifling through our things while we're putting in our lengths? I could always just leave them lying about in the changing rooms I suppose. (Or use a basket in the supermarket.)
Yeah, we had a similar system in supermarkets here in Sweden, where you were required to put whatever bags or stuff you've bought in other stores as a way to prevent theft.
After a while you had to deposit a coin. A few years went by, and then they started to keep the coin.
Today, no one use these lockers anymore, we just ignore their rules and walk right in with whatever we may be carrying.
Besides, with trolleys there may be some kind of reason behind it, but what's the reason with the lockers? Are you going to steel the locker? Do you want to steal the key? It's just annoying and serves no purpose. If they want to cover the costs of the lockers, just add it to the entrance fee, as the lockers are more or less mandatory anyway. Stupid, annoying and an unnecessary complication.
-------------------- /Troberg Posts: 4360 | From: Borlänge, Sweden | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Anyone got any objections to that? I mean after all, aren't the pool's owners being highly distrustful of their customers, "making" us all "pay" £1 to stop people rifling through our things while we're putting in our lengths? I could always just leave them lying about in the changing rooms I suppose. (Or use a basket in the supermarket.)
Yeah, we had a similar system in supermarkets here in Sweden, where you were required to put whatever bags or stuff you've bought in other stores as a way to prevent theft.
After a while you had to deposit a coin. A few years went by, and then they started to keep the coin.
Today, no one use these lockers anymore, we just ignore their rules and walk right in with whatever we may be carrying.
Besides, with trolleys there may be some kind of reason behind it, but what's the reason with the lockers? Are you going to steel the locker? Do you want to steal the key? It's just annoying and serves no purpose. If they want to cover the costs of the lockers, just add it to the entrance fee, as the lockers are more or less mandatory anyway. Stupid, annoying and an unnecessary complication.
A system like that is probably put into place to avoid having a gang of teenage boys* who think it is so terribly funny to take all of the keys to the empty lockers at the start of the day so no one can lock up their stuff.
*It could also be teenage girls, or adults, or kids, but it seems the kind of "humour" that teenage boys would find funny.
-------------------- IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan Posts: 3694 | From: Arizona | Registered: Aug 2005
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Dara bhur gCara
As Shepherds Watched Their Flocks Buy Now Pay Later
posted
quote:Originally posted by Snafu: Actually no, it's not, it's a bunch of braindead chavs, so it's quite believable.
I really, really dislike the word "chav."
You see, I consider it as just a pejorative term to label the white urban poor as sub-human. I consider it in much the same light as "Nigger" or "Paki," and it really should be considered just as much of an offensive term as either of those terms.
You're perfectly entitled to disagree. But you'd be wrong.
-------------------- This wrinkle in time, I can't give it no credit, I thought about my space and it really got me down. Got me so down, I got me a headache, My heart is crammed in my cranium and it still knows how to pound Posts: 2794 | From: London, UK | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Dara: I really, really dislike the word "chav." [/QB]
I have to agree with you.
However disliking the word "chav" does mean agreeing with Julie Birchill.
Also I know a few people who use it in the original Romany sense. They've got quite annoyed with the appropration of "their" word.
-------------------- I shall baffle you with cabbages and rhinoceroses in the kitchen and incessant quotations from "Now We Are Six" through the mouthpiece of Lord Snooty's giant poisoned electric head. So there! Posts: 802 | From: London, UK | Registered: Nov 2005
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You see, I consider it as just a pejorative term to label the white urban poor as sub-human. I consider it in much the same light as "Nigger" or "Paki," and it really should be considered just as much of an offensive term as either of those terms.
You're perfectly entitled to disagree. But you'd be wrong.
No, Dara, I wouldn't.
The term 'Chav' has been in use around here - Leeds area - for years; long, long before it began being used so frequently by the media and everyone else.
quote: You see, I consider it as just a pejorative term.
So do I, and quite appropriately so.
Nowadays, most people hear the word 'Chav', and instantly, images of anyone from a council estate wearing a hoodie and pair of Adidias pants pops into their head. I don't (unlike you, it seems) automatically label anyone a 'Chav' by the clothes they wear, the way the speak, or the places they live. I label a 'Chav', a 'Chav', because of their repugnant attitudes.
To me, and anyone else who has to live in the close vicinity of them, knows that 'Chavs' are the people you read about EVERY SINGLE DAY in the papers, and you see EVERY SINGLE DAY on the news. The gangs of youths that have no qualms about mugging a ninety year old woman for her fish n' chips, then kicking the shit out of her, and filming the whole sorry episode on their stolen phones. The scumbags who routinely beat people into comas for being asks not to throw bricks at peoples cars. The brutes who constantly torture and kill animals for their own amusement - like the yobs that've blown apart several dogs with fireworks since Bonfire Night.
The arseholes who EVERY SINGLE DAY WITHOUT FAIL stab/beat/mug/kill people and get away with it, then brag to their mates about it - they're proud of being like this!! And the fact is, yes, most of them wear the standard 'Chav' uniform, and yes, most of them live on council estates.
I grew up on a council estate, everyone dressed and spoke like you'd imagine a 'Chav' to , point being, we didn't spend our days making everyone elses life a misery.
You're offended by me using the term 'Chav'? If I had it my way, I'd have every last one of the 'sub-human' bastards lined up and shot.
Posts: 241 | From: England | Registered: Sep 2005
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Dara bhur gCara
As Shepherds Watched Their Flocks Buy Now Pay Later
posted
quote:Originally posted by Snafu:
quote: I really, really dislike the word "chav."
You see, I consider it as just a pejorative term to label the white urban poor as sub-human. I consider it in much the same light as "Nigger" or "Paki," and it really should be considered just as much of an offensive term as either of those terms.
You're perfectly entitled to disagree. But you'd be wrong.
No, Dara, I wouldn't.
The term 'Chav' has been in use around here - Leeds area - for years; long, long before it began being used so frequently by the media and everyone else.
Well, it's been a Romany term for about a thousand years. What's your point? It's only fifty years ago that "Nigger" or "Paki" were perfectly acceptable terms socially, so the longevity of a word means absolutely nothing about whether or not it's an acceptable word to use.
quote:
quote: You see, I consider it as just a pejorative term.
So do I, and quite appropriately so.
Nowadays, most people hear the word 'Chav', and instantly, images of anyone from a council estate wearing a hoodie and pair of Adidias pants pops into their head. I don't (unlike you, it seems) automatically label anyone a 'Chav' by the clothes they wear, the way the speak, or the places they live. I label a 'Chav', a 'Chav', because of their repugnant attitudes.
I think you'll find that I don't automatically label anyone a 'Chav' at all. In fact, I tend not to label people at all. Because it's not very nice.
quote:To me, and anyone else who has to live in the close vicinity of them, knows that 'Chavs' are the people you read about EVERY SINGLE DAY in the papers, and you see EVERY SINGLE DAY on the news. The gangs of youths that have no qualms about mugging a ninety year old woman for her fish n' chips, then kicking the shit out of her, and filming the whole sorry episode on their stolen phones.
Cite?
quote:The scumbags who routinely beat people into comas for being asks not to throw bricks at peoples cars.
Cite?
quote: The brutes who constantly torture and kill animals for their own amusement - like the yobs that've blown apart several dogs with fireworks since Bonfire Night.
Cite?
quote:The arseholes who EVERY SINGLE DAY WITHOUT FAIL stab/beat/mug/kill people and get away with it, then brag to their mates about it - they're proud of being like this!!
Cite? In particularly, the EVERY SINGLE DAY WITHOUT FAIL bit
quote:And the fact is, yes, most of them wear the standard 'Chav' uniform, and yes, most of them live on council estates.
You know something? Cite this, while you're there. I don't think you can even demonstrate that.
quote:I grew up on a council estate, everyone dressed and spoke like you'd imagine a 'Chav' to , point being, we didn't spend our days making everyone elses life a misery.
You're offended by me using the term 'Chav'? If I had it my way, I'd have every last one of the 'sub-human' bastards lined up and shot. [/QB]
Well, you've surely helped your argument there. I mean, there I was, thinking you were mean-spirited, uber-judgmental and bigoted, but now that you say you'd "have every last one of the 'sub-human' bastards lined up and shot" I now see the error of my ways and the logic of your argument. Please send me an introductory pamphlet for your organisation.
I personally am not interested in having anyone lined up and shot. I call this position "The High Moral Ground." You should try it sometime.
-------------------- This wrinkle in time, I can't give it no credit, I thought about my space and it really got me down. Got me so down, I got me a headache, My heart is crammed in my cranium and it still knows how to pound Posts: 2794 | From: London, UK | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
I just think the policy makes people unkind. Sure they might jump through the hoops to get their well earned dollar back. But I bet most are also going to be less likely to pass the cart off to another shopper to add to everyones mutual comfort and convienice. I still think its a petty annoyance to require a deposit and I don't shop at stores that have such policies. If some place wants my business they could at least make it easier for me to buy their product.
ETA: This post might have only been my broken foot talking. For the past week or two I've been limping around town. When I've gone to the store I do park beside a cart corral but there's not always carts available (the grocery store up the road from me gathers the things up every five minutes or so), and the corrals aren't always near an entrance. Its a blessing when someone unloading their cart hands it off to me so I have some support to lean on. I'd like to think I also make their life easier since they don't have to walk back to the cart corral. IMHO everyone is happier that way but all that would be lost if we make "courtesy" dependant on coin.
-------------------- "The question for joining the protected forum for real magicians should be:
What is the use of women?" Steve W. from JREF's 'This is no fun' Posts: 7622 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:A system like that is probably put into place to avoid having a gang of teenage boys* who think it is so terribly funny to take all of the keys to the empty lockers at the start of the day so no one can lock up their stuff.
So do what they do here in Sweden now: hand out the key at the counter. Works nicely.
-------------------- /Troberg Posts: 4360 | From: Borlänge, Sweden | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Interesting. I visited Ireland two years back and went shopping several times at the Super Quinn where they use the 1 euro deposit for carts. The shoppers were certainly not unkind, they were in fact far more polite and helpful than most American shoppers. Not having a single one-euro-coin would be kind of odd I think, especially since one would know before one went shopping about the cart deposit.
The idea of having to hand off carts at the entrance of the store sounds far more aggravating than the cart deposit idea.
-------------------- Officially Heartless Posts: 3065 | From: The Montgomery County of the West Coast- Berkeley, CA | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:I just think the policy makes people unkind.
Has the US slipped that far into barbarism ?
-------------------- All along the untrodden paths of the future, I can see the footprints of an unseen hand. Posts: 6912 | From: Flanders | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote: Well, it's been a Romany term for about a thousand years. What's your point? It's only fifty years ago that "Nigger" or "Paki" were perfectly acceptable terms socially, so the longevity of a word means absolutely nothing about whether or not it's an acceptable word to use.
It has nothing to do with the Romany term anymore. 'Nigger' and 'Paki' are gross generalizations. Granted, 'Chav' is a generalization too, but everyone who falls into the 'Chav' category is an arsehole anyway - there were different types of Nazis, they were still all arseholes.
As you can imagine, trying to find cites for the exact stories I mentioned in my earlier post is nigh-on impossible, you know, considering the thousands upon thousands of websites that contain reports about Chavs attacks. Instead, I've cited cases that closely resemble those which I mentioned.
quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To me, and anyone else who has to live in the close vicinity of them, knows that 'Chavs' are the people you read about EVERY SINGLE DAY in the papers, and you see EVERY SINGLE DAY on the news. The gangs of youths that have no qualms about mugging a ninety year old woman for her fish n' chips, then kicking the shit out of her, and filming the whole sorry episode on their stolen phones. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The scumbags who routinely beat people into comas for being asks not to throw bricks at peoples cars. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The brutes who constantly torture and kill animals for their own amusement - like the yobs that've blown apart several dogs with fireworks since Bonfire Night. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The arseholes who EVERY SINGLE DAY WITHOUT FAIL stab/beat/mug/kill people and get away with it, then brag to their mates about it - they're proud of being like this!! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cite? In particularly, the EVERY SINGLE DAY WITHOUT FAIL bit
How about you try watching the news or reading a paper everyday?
quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And the fact is, yes, most of them wear the standard 'Chav' uniform, and yes, most of them live on council estates. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know something? Cite this, while you're there. I don't think you can even demonstrate that.
Read any story about a 'Hoodie' or 'Chav' attack, look the accompanying photos - you'll see most, if not all, are wearing said clothes and living in said places.
quote: I mean, there I was, thinking you were mean-spirited, uber-judgmental and bigoted...
If you'd grown up with the crap I've grown up with, I imagine you'd be the same. Not that you label people though....
Posts: 241 | From: England | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
To briefly wander back on topic. The only time I've seen cart deposits, you only got half the money back. (it was a while back and fairly rare) I have however encountered the type of cart that locks up when you go past a certain boundry. I do admit to running headlong into the invisible boundry because it's all magicy the way it stops. It's fascinating.
I have never had anyone keep a pay toilet open for me, and I think I'd almost rather pay my quarter. Well obviously they know I'm in line to use the restroom, but that's just a bit too personal.
-------------------- "I still say Obi-wan Kenobi was The Force's bitch." Posts: 820 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Nov 2004
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Dara bhur gCara
As Shepherds Watched Their Flocks Buy Now Pay Later
posted
quote:Originally posted by Snafu:
quote: Well, it's been a Romany term for about a thousand years. What's your point? It's only fifty years ago that "Nigger" or "Paki" were perfectly acceptable terms socially, so the longevity of a word means absolutely nothing about whether or not it's an acceptable word to use.
It has nothing to do with the Romany term anymore. 'Nigger' and 'Paki' are gross generalizations. Granted, 'Chav' is a generalization too, but everyone who falls into the 'Chav' category is an arsehole anyway - there were different types of Nazis, they were still all arseholes.
I really don't know where to begin in responding to this.
1. In the first place, I feel I can invoke Godwin's Law, and claim victory in this argument by default. But that would be mere sophistry.
2. If I am to understand it, you feel that it is fair to judge an entire section of society on the basis of apparel, with the justification that some of those are involved in the commission of crime, provided you make it clear that by use of the pejorative term you only mean those members of that section of society who are involved in crime. Does that mean that "Nigger," say, is acceptable if what you mean by "Nigger" is "those members of the Black or Minority Ethnic communities who are involved in crime?" Or do you think that any generalisation aimed at emphasising that certain people are Not Like You is unhelpful and divisive?
quote:As you can imagine, trying to find cites for the exact stories I mentioned in my earlier post is nigh-on impossible, you know, considering the thousands upon thousands of websites that contain reports about Chavs attacks.
I had kind of imagined that you were referring to real cases that you knew about, and would have evidence to back it up.
quote:Instead, I've cited cases that closely resemble those which I mentioned.
Immediately I'm suspicious.
quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To me, and anyone else who has to live in the close vicinity of them, knows that 'Chavs' are the people you read about EVERY SINGLE DAY in the papers, and you see EVERY SINGLE DAY on the news. The gangs of youths that have no qualms about mugging a ninety year old woman for her fish n' chips, then kicking the shit out of her, and filming the whole sorry episode on their stolen phones. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not really exactly what you initially posted (no chips, not exactly a 'gang of youths,' not a ninety-year old woman,) but thats by the by. The objectionable and thuggish behaviour of some members of a segment of society is not a free pass to lambast that entire segment of society.
If there are, as you say, thousands upon thousands of web-pages dedicated to 'chav attacks', why did you pick this one? Because this isn't a 'chav attack.'
This took place on the Twelfth of July in Northern Ireland, the most socially divisive day in that most divided country. Where I'm from. To suggest that this attack is in some way symptomatic of the 'happy-slapping phenomenon,' as opposed to just one of maybe fifty incidents of public disorder in the same country on the most hot-tempered day of the year is the argument of a nitwit.
quote:
quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The scumbags who routinely beat people into comas for being asks not to throw bricks at peoples cars. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The brutes who constantly torture and kill animals for their own amusement - like the yobs that've blown apart several dogs with fireworks since Bonfire Night. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The arseholes who EVERY SINGLE DAY WITHOUT FAIL stab/beat/mug/kill people and get away with it, then brag to their mates about it - they're proud of being like this!! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cite? In particularly, the EVERY SINGLE DAY WITHOUT FAIL bit
How about you try watching the news or reading a paper everyday?
I do watch the news and read the newspapers, and I disagree with your apocalyptic portrayal of UK urban society. Bad things happen, as they do, but I reject the argument that they're carried out by sub-humans, who are Not Like Me. Because that's what "Chav" means, that's what "Nigger" means and that's what "Paki" means. It means "Not Like Me." That's why I consider the term "chav" offensive, because it's a term coined only to divide.
Fact is, quite apart from the fact that none of the incidences to which you refer bear much of a relation to the incidences you initially posted, all these things are bad, but not symptomatic of some sort of some sort of horrific malaise in society.
quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And the fact is, yes, most of them wear the standard 'Chav' uniform, and yes, most of them live on council estates. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know something? Cite this, while you're there. I don't think you can even demonstrate that.
Read any story about a 'Hoodie' or 'Chav' attack, look the accompanying photos - you'll see most, if not all, are wearing said clothes and living in said places.[/quote]
So what you're saying is "In order to justify my prejudice towards people who wear certain apparel or behave in a certain fashion, I am going to assert that they are universally involved in crime. When challenged on this, I'm going to post some random articles of lawless behaviour, and then insist that this is emblematic of some greater trend. Then make you do the research to back it up."
Tell you what, why don't I not?
quote:
quote: I mean, there I was, thinking you were mean-spirited, uber-judgmental and bigoted...
If you'd grown up with the crap I've grown up with, I imagine you'd be the same. Not that you label people though....
I'm judging, not labelling you, on the basis of "what you say". Balanced against "what they wear," or "my impressions of how they will behave based on what they wear," I honestly reckon my judgment is fairer. Don't you?
For all that your background may be instructive, it is not a free pass to embark on the character assassination of an entire segment of society. It just isn't.
-------------------- This wrinkle in time, I can't give it no credit, I thought about my space and it really got me down. Got me so down, I got me a headache, My heart is crammed in my cranium and it still knows how to pound Posts: 2794 | From: London, UK | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote: If I am to understand it, you feel that it is fair to judge an entire section of society on the basis of apparel, with the justification that some of those are involved in the commission of crime, provided you make it clear that by use of the pejorative term you only mean those members of that section of society who are involved in crime.
Not really, no. That's exactly why I find terms like 'nigger' offensive. I'm not not talking about SOME Chavs involving themselves in crime, if they're not involved in crime, then, in my opinion, they're not Chavs. It's like saying:
"Well, you can't say all criminals are breaking the law just because some of them do."
And that's another thing:
quote: Or do you think that any generalisation aimed at emphasising that certain people are Not Like You is unhelpful and divisive?
So you don't use terms like 'widow', or 'Australian', or 'boy racer'? Simply because you acknowledge there are different groups of people in the world, doesn't make the terms 'unhelpful and divisive', and basically offensive; Chavs don't even find 'Chav' offensive - they revel in it.
quote: If there are, as you say, thousands upon thousands of web-pages dedicated to 'chav attacks', why did you pick this one? Because this isn't a 'chav attack.'
Fair enough, I made a mistake. But like I said, I didn't intend trawling through thousands of websites trying to find those specific cases I mentioned when any of a million others would make the same point.
quote: So what you're saying is "In order to justify my prejudice towards people who wear certain apparel or behave in a certain fashion, I am going to assert that they are universally involved in crime. When challenged on this, I'm going to post some random articles of lawless behaviour, and then insist that this is emblematic of some greater trend. Then make you do the research to back it up."
As I said at the beginning, if they not commiting any crime, they're not Chavs. I'll bring up the Nazis again; if you saw a guy walking down the street with a Swastica tattooed on his forehead, and 'F**k Jews' plastered across his jumper - would it make you an idiot for assuming he's a fascist arsehole? And couldn't you cite the Holocaust as an example of that?
I'm just completely gobsmacked that you aren't acknowleging the problems in the country caused by the sudden rise of Chav culture. Is the introduction of ASBOs a coincidence? Or Blair's new 'Respect Action Plan'?
Have you being living in a cave for the past ten years?
Posts: 241 | From: England | Registered: Sep 2005
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Dara bhur gCara
As Shepherds Watched Their Flocks Buy Now Pay Later
posted
quote:Originally posted by Snafu: I'm just completely gobsmacked that you aren't acknowleging the problems in the country caused by the sudden rise of Chav culture. Is the introduction of ASBOs a coincidence? Or Blair's new 'Respect Action Plan'?
Have you being living in a cave for the past ten years?
No, I've been living in a fairly tough inner-city area of London for the last five years, before that I lived in the East End of Glasgow. I'm not saying that social problems don't exist, but I don't blame it on "Chav culture," nor do I seek to make myself feel better about it by defining a convenient Untermensch that are Not Like Me.
-------------------- This wrinkle in time, I can't give it no credit, I thought about my space and it really got me down. Got me so down, I got me a headache, My heart is crammed in my cranium and it still knows how to pound Posts: 2794 | From: London, UK | Registered: Aug 2003
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