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Author Topic: Star Wars legends confirmed
Tier-Rex
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This may only be good for a laugh, but this is my take on epi 3.

Obviously the clone war continues. At first Anakin will fight well for the supposed right side. Padme will give birth to the twins. She will die in giving birth. They will be hidden due to the misgivings of the Jedi Council over Anakin's behaviour.

Obi-Wan will attempt to approach him, maybe to explain Padme's death and to make a final attempt to redeem him to the light (but he wont mention the birth). Anakin will lose it. The Jedi have cost him everything... his mother and now his wife. Ever since he followed them at a young age it has gone all pear shaped.

Anakin's anger will consume him and he and Obi-Wan argue and then fight. Enter the Obi-Wan and Anakin fight - whatever it ends in Anakin falling into.

Palpatine/Darth Sidius rebuild his body and Anakin is now angered and dark-sided beyond redemption (after all the Jedi have now cost him even his body). He will vow to destroy the Jedi. He wont seek to confront and fight Obi-Wan though, he isn't strong enough yet (Why he announces so proudly in Epi 4 that He is NOW the master).

He dons his helmet and vows to rid the Universe of their (The Jedi's) presence. Obi-Wan retreats to watch over Anakin. Yoda escapes to be there for a future time.

Anyway - My Drunken thoughts [Wink]

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Jay has been turned into a newt
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There's a lot of bias against Episodes I and II. So bad that a few (who enjoyed the original three) have called them "worst movie of {insert respective year}".

I might agree that they may not be as good as the original trilogy, and we know that there exist some inconsistencies (that may or may not be explained in Episode III.) But I think the Episode I and II bashing is more than a little unfair. They may be "good movies, but bad Star Wars movies."

But I'm not even sure that that is a fair way to put them. I think that diehard fans of the older trilogy are just looking for faults. All movies have inconsistencies and flaws.

J "Is of the crowd that sees Final Fantasy 9 as a 'good game, but bad Final Fantasy'... and will beat FF8 haters to a pulp*" ay

* - Not really, but still, don't bash it.

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CD
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quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
Okay, clearly Vader has some terrible disfiguring 'accident' or incident as it were. I'd guess that's what throws him over the edge.

What I think throws him over the edge is that he grows up to become Darth Vader, The most awesome, feared, evil, tyrannical, menacing force in all of the galaxy, while spending his younger days having to deal with people calling him...


"Annie"


Such a shame.

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Glottal Fry
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quote:
Originally posted by CD:
quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
Okay, clearly Vader has some terrible disfiguring 'accident' or incident as it were. I'd guess that's what throws him over the edge.

What I think throws him over the edge is that he grows up to become Darth Vader, The most awesome, feared, evil, tyrannical, menacing force in all of the galaxy, while spending his younger days having to deal with people calling him...


"Annie"


Such a shame.

Yeah, and people always asking him to sing that 'Tomorrow' song...

ex

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LizzyJingleBells
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Tier-Rex:
Padme will give birth to the twins. She will die in giving birth.

Have to disagree with this, simply because Leia says she remembers her real mother, and that the woman died while she was very young.

I think, as was stated before, that how Padme dies will forever be a mystery. I do not think that is going to be what pushes Anikin over the edge. Perhaps her leaving him does, but not her dying.

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If the only prayer you say in your life is thank you, that would suffice. - Meister Eckhart My Blog

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trollface
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quote:
Originally posted by Tier-Rex:
The Jedi have cost him everything... his mother [...]

This actually makes me laugh. He left his mother to rot for 10 years. He knew where she was, and he didn't even contact her. He didn't know that she had been freed, let alone captured. And then he whines about how it isn't fair. Try calling your mother every once in a while, especially if you're living the high-life,and you know she's a slave whose freedom you can buy.

quote:
Jay said:
But I think the Episode I and II bashing is more than a little unfair. They may be "good movies, but bad Star Wars movies."

Actually, I think it's more than fair. I know that I, personally, wouldn't be as forgiving to them as I have been were they not Star Wars films. They may be bad Star Wars films, but judged outside of that criteria, they're awful.

Bad plot, bad acting, bad direction, bad effects. Come on, even Samuel L. Jackson came accross poorly, and I never tought I'd not like him in anything. Hell, there have hardly even been any cool sound effects in these ones, and that's usually a high-point.

I seriosuly doubt that had the films been released without the first 3 to hold them up that the fans would have taken to them, and a second one would even have been greenlit.

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seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears.

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Garth
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Yes, you do remember that bit about the not yet the evil villain falling into the acid, becaoming disfigured, and then planning revenge. That was the Joker, in the first Batman-dark knight movie.
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Silence Dogood
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quote:
Originally posted by LizzyBasilisk:
quote:
Originally posted by Tier-Rex:
Padme will give birth to the twins. She will die in giving birth.

Have to disagree with this, simply because Leia says she remembers her real mother, and that the woman died while she was very young.
Well, she says she remembers her mother - but do we know that she's remembering her real mother? After all, in the beginning (i.e., Episode IV) she thinks she's a princess of Alderaan and the daughter of Bail (?) Organa.

Silence "she died because I KILLED HER for making me wear those cinnamon buns on my head!" Dogood

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Tootsie Plunkette
Buy a Torch, Jeanette, Isabella


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quote:
Originally posted by Silence Dogood:
Well, she says she remembers her mother - but do we know that she's remembering her real mother? After all, in the beginning (i.e., Episode IV) she thinks she's a princess of Alderaan and the daughter of Bail (?) Organa.

PL: Luke, what’s wrong?

L: Leia, do you remember your mother? Your real mother?

PL: Just a little bit. She died when I was very young.

L: What do you remember?

PL: Just images, really. Feelings...

L: Tell me.

PL: She was very beautiful. Kind, but sad. Why are you asking me this?

L: I have no memory of my mother. I never knew her.


She doesn't question his asking about her "real" mother. So Leia must have had another mother who she knew was not her "real" mother, but understood his question was about her birth mother.

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Mr. Fed
Happy Holly Days


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I think I remember reading about Vader falling into the volcano in some book between the release of Episode IV and V. I think it might have been "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" by Foster, actually fairly fun pulp fiction.

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LizzyJingleBells
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by trollface:
This actually makes me laugh. He left his mother to rot for 10 years. He knew where she was, and he didn't even contact her. He didn't know that she had been freed, let alone captured. And then he whines about how it isn't fair. Try calling your mother every once in a while, especially if you're living the high-life,and you know she's a slave whose freedom you can buy.

Speaking of Shmi...

After watching Episode I, I thougt that the reason Anikin finally flips out, would be the death of his mother. And I honestly thought Obi Wan would have something to do with it too. So much for my guess. [Big Grin]

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If the only prayer you say in your life is thank you, that would suffice. - Meister Eckhart My Blog

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Gibbie
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Trollface says:
quote:
This actually makes me laugh. He left his mother to rot for 10 years. He knew where she was, and he didn't even contact her.
Well not exactly. It's not like he was free to come and go as he pleased and do what he wanted. He was in Jedi training, think military school. The Jedi didn't want their recruits to have any contact with family or form any attachments outside other Jedi. That's why you see the scene with the Yoda and all the little Jedi. They'd been removed from their homes and raised at the academy. This is supported in dialoge in the second movie and also in the "Young Jedi" series my daughter has been reading and recounting to me in excrutiating detail. [Smile]

Gibbie

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BrianB
Happy Holly Days


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(I posted this before but I can't find when and/or where.) Here's an interview of George Lucas conducted by Paul Scanlon that appeared in Rolling Stone magazine on 25 August 1977 where Lucas gives Vader's backgound:
quote:
page 46: It's about Ben and Luke's father and Vader when they were young Jedi knights. But when Vader kills Luke's father, then Ben and Vader have a confrontation, just like they have in Star Wars, and Ben almost kills Vader. As a matter of fact, he falls into a volcanic pit and gets fried and is one destroyed being. That's why he has to wear the suit with the mask, because it's a breathing mask. It's like a walking iron lung. His face is all horrible inside. I was going to shoot a close-up of Vader where you could see the inside of his face, but then we said no, no, it would destroy the mystique of the whole thing.
Brian "yes, I've been collecting Star Wars stuff that long" B

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trollface
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Yeah, but he's disobeying orders when he goes to see her anyway. It's not like he's exactly good at doing what he'stold, is it?

Brian, that seems to back up that Vader wasn't Luke's dad in the original film.

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seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears.

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DerekT
Jingle Bell Hock


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I do have to say, for all those looking to the books for proof of what did or did not occur don't bother.

While Lucas does have to give his permission for each book its normally only to make certain the characters stay constant and no wild character changes like

Vader - Look at the fluffy bunny, its so cute, makes me think going to the dark side is wrong.

The books aren't cannon, maybe the books will have something simular, maybe indeed they will go with Vadar falling into a valcano (of course maybe thats just Ben's cover story, maybe none of the Jedi truly know who Vadar is, hows that for a twist). Of course they could just have Ben beating the crap out of the punk Skywalker (judging from episode 2 not that hard) and then ending with Anikin in the suit. Something no one talk about when is Tarken (the general who is blown up in the Death Star in episode 4) going to surfice.

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Jaime Vargas Sanchez
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Aureal:
quote:
Originally posted by trollface:
From his expression and his mannerisms, Alec Guinness clearly believes he is telling the truth.

I disagree. I don't think it's anywhere near that clear-cut. To me he seems slightly taken aback by the question, and looks grave while considering what to say. That could indicate sorrow because of the death of Anakin, but also concern about just what exactly to tell Luke.

It's sort of like that scene in Fellowship of the Ring with Arwen chanting in Elvish at the Ford of Bruinen. It looks like she's casting a magic spell to cause the flood, but I've heard people say she looks startled when it occurs, indicating that she wasn't responsible for it. It's just too ambiguous to be certain what exactly what going on in those scenes.

Uh. Oh. I see it coming. In a couple of years the world will be populated with people who are as anal about LOTR as they are now about Star Wars. Kill me please.

Jaime

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"Everyone has problems. They only vary in design" - Mama Duck

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Gibbie
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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In a couple of years? No my dear, the world is already populated with those people, where have you been. [Smile]

Gibbie

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If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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FumblePDI
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Tootssssssie Plunkette:
PL: Luke, what’s wrong?

L: Leia, do you remember your mother? Your real mother?

PL: Just a little bit. She died when I was very young.

L: What do you remember?

PL: Just images, really. Feelings...

L: Tell me.

PL: She was very beautiful. Kind, but sad.

Leia does not specifically say that she had ever SEEN her real mother. The images might be pictures of Padme from history books. Her "feelings" could be just about anything, from stories she had been told to some sort of spiritual connection.

In other words, I don't think these lines necessarily prove that Padme lives past giving birth to the kids.


PS: Here's a weird bit of trivia that dawned on me. Luke's nickname amongst his childhood friends is "Wormie." (This is from deleted or un-shot scenes of Episode 4 ... I am very unsure of its status, other than it was part of Lucas' ideas.)

Anyway, Lucas might be using that nickname as a metaphor in that a worm is similar to a caterpillar ... which changes to a butterfly ... flying = walking in the sky ... Sky-Walker ..... hence Luke in part 4 is in the "larval stage" en route to becoming a true Skywalker.

Oh, just call me Obi Wan Freud.

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FumblePDI
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quote:
Originally posted by trollface:
This actually makes me laugh. He left his mother to rot for 10 years. He knew where she was, and he didn't even contact her. He didn't know that she had been freed, let alone captured. And then he whines about how it isn't fair. Try calling your mother every once in a while, especially if you're living the high-life,and you know she's a slave whose freedom you can buy.

YES!!! I find this to be the most annoying "flaw" in the whole SW universe!

What was stopping Padme & Co from doing SOMETHING to free Shmi? Padme is Queen of an ENTIRE FREAKIN PLANET! A planet whose races all owe their freedom to a kid whose mom is being held as a slave.

Why didn't Lucas create some (cheap) plot device to keep Shmi from being freed? Even I could do that. See? .......

quote:

EPISODE 1, JOINED IN PROGRESS

Watto only agrees to free the son but not mom. With the whole Naboo crisis requiring them to get to Courescant ASAP, the Jedi agree to leave Shmi there "for now."

Just after Anikin says goodbye to Shmi, cameras remain to show us Shmi being taken by Watto and some goons. "They'll never find you where we're taking you." Insert diabolical laughter.

FAST FORWARD TO EPISODE 2

We will witness a piece of conversation between Anikin and Obi-Wan, in which we learn that numerous attempts have been made by the Galactic Senate charities to find Shmi, but all have failed. Future search/rescue attempts have been aborted because, if Watto feels threatened, he will denotate the "slave chip" hidden in her body, killing her instantly.

Anikin's bad dreams cause him to make one last trip to Tatooine, even at the risk of his mother's life. He finds Watto but learns that he had to sell Shmi to Mr Lars, etc, yadda yadda yadda, continue as planned.

What do you think?
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Chiajedi
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by FumblePDI:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by trollface:
[qb] This actually makes me laugh. He left his mother to rot for 10 years. He knew where she was, and he didn't even contact her. He didn't know that she had been freed, let alone captured. And then he whines about how it isn't fair. Try calling your mother every once in a while, especially if you're living the high-life,and you know she's a slave whose freedom you can buy.

Jedis are not supposed to form personal attatchments, it's why they start training so young, and why Yoda didn't want Anakin trained. Following that, it wouldn't make sense to go back and rescue her. Anakin was too old; had he been trained properly, he would have started so young that he wouldn't be able to remember her.
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FumblePDI
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quote:
Originally posted by Chiajedi:
Jedis are not supposed to form personal attatchments, it's why they start training so young, and why Yoda didn't want Anakin trained. Following that, it wouldn't make sense to go back and rescue her. Anakin was too old; had he been trained properly, he would have started so young that he wouldn't be able to remember her.

Well, they certainly did allude to the age issue in Phantom Menace, but it wasn't really mentioned much in Attack of the Clones.

For the 90% of the audience who don't catch on, it still seems like Anakin doesn't really care about his mom ... until he suddenly leaves Naboo and maniacally slaughters dozens of Sandpeople ("the women and children too") in revenge for his mother's death.


True, Jedi are not SUPPOSED to form emotional relationships, but once one is already formed, why not deal with it in the best way. Why not rescue Shmi and pen her up inside some Naboo monastery? Wouldn't that situation be much less detrimental to Anakin's training than for him to know that his mom is someone's desert slave?


Unrelated: I still don't think ObiWan should have "hidden" baby Luke on Tatooine ... in the custody of Anakin's stepbrother's family ... and let him keep the Skywalker last name.

Ben, you're an idiot!!!

ME -} [fish] {- BEN

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Tier-Rex
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Episode 3 - Construction of the Death Star

Worker 1 " Dang, I ordered the wrong size torpedo proof grill for the exhaust port. It's too NFBSKing big."

Foreman: " Forget it. Damn things too small for anyone to notice. Let's just charge for fitting one anyway."

Worker 2 " True. Like it'll matter.".

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TheEmerged
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RE: "From a certain point of view". Actually, Obi-Wan is lying out of an inconvenient orafice.

LUKE: How did my father die?

BEN: A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force.

I want one, and only one, answer in Ep3 -- how the flying [censored by poster] can you betray yourself [flame]

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Chiajedi
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quote:
Originally posted by FumblePDI:
Well, they certainly did allude to the age issue in Phantom Menace, but it wasn't really mentioned much in Attack of the Clones.

For the 90% of the audience who don't catch on, it still seems like Anakin doesn't really care about his mom ... until he suddenly leaves Naboo and maniacally slaughters dozens of Sandpeople ("the women and children too") in revenge for his mother's death.


True, Jedi are not SUPPOSED to form emotional relationships, but once one is already formed, why not deal with it in the best way. Why not rescue Shmi and pen her up inside some Naboo monastery? Wouldn't that situation be much less detrimental to Anakin's training than for him to know that his mom is someone's desert slave?
ME -} [fish] {- BEN [/QB]

It was unheard of for a new jedi in training to come to them with said personal attatchments. Bringing Shmi might have been a distraction. And had he learned his jedi lessons well, he should have been able to surpress what he would desire to happen, and do his duty, much as he was supposed to have done with Padme.
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Lulu
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quote:
Originally posted by Aureal:

It's sort of like that scene in Fellowship of the Ring with Arwen chanting in Elvish at the Ford of Bruinen. It looks like she's casting a magic spell to cause the flood, but I've heard people say she looks startled when it occurs, indicating that she wasn't responsible for it. It's just too ambiguous to be certain what exactly what going on in those scenes.

Jaime - be afraid. I'm both a LoTR *and* a Star Wars nerd! [Smile]

[nerd alert] Aureal, I just wanted to say that I believe Arwen looks startled not because she didn't know the flood was going to happen, but because she went a bit too far and the flood is bigger than she expected. Remember in the book where Galdalf tells Frodo that Elrond was worried that the flood he let loose was too large and was concerned that it'd wash away Glorfindel, Frodo, et al? I think that PJ, Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens were trying to incorporate that bit into the film.[/nerd alert]

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"What I do not understand is why it makes a difference how the goat is exposed." ~ Rhiandmoi

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trollface
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quote:
Originally posted by Chiajedi:
It was unheard of for a new jedi in training to come to them with said personal attatchments. Bringing Shmi might have been a distraction. And had he learned his jedi lessons well, he should have been able to surpress what he would desire to happen, and do his duty, much as he was supposed to have done with Padme.

Ah, you can make explainations, like my fellow horror nerds trying to make consistent continuity between all 10 Friday The 13ths, but it is tortured, and not something that the makers obviously put that much thought into. What Fumble said would have worked for me. It's a Pulp explaination, sure, but it's a Pulp series.

Your explaination does bring up one point that annoyed me, though, why is the Jedi council so nfbsking stupid? They seem to be entirely clueless about pretty much anything that's going on. And they have powers of deduction that's make a 6 year old impatient.

Obi Wan: Master, I've looked at these co-ordinates for where this planet is supposed to be. There is no record of a planet there, but all the star charts show that other celestial bodies move as if there was the gravitational force from a planet there. What's going on?

Yoda: Hmmmm! Truely puzzling, this is. Meditate on it, I will. Hmmmmm!

Knee-high To A Padwan: The planet's there, but not in your records.

Yoda: Hmmmm! Clever young boy, this one is. Intellect that truely great is, he has. Hmmmm!

Knee-high To A Padwan: Only compared to some.

Yoda: Cheeky, don't be! Of your lip enough, that is. Otherwise, feel the back of my hand, you will. Tyke young. Hmmmm!

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seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears.

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Chiajedi
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I'm probably really over analyzing this, but I think that the Jedi Council had become just as bogged down in tradition and bureacracy as the Republic.


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spamwolf
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quote:
Originally posted by trollface:
Your explaination does bring up one point that annoyed me, though, why is the Jedi council so nfbsking stupid? They seem to be entirely clueless about pretty much anything that's going on. And they have powers of deduction that's make a 6 year old impatient.

I have to agree with you on this one. No one on the council could figure out that finding the person who will restore balance to the force clearly ment the dark side would make a comeback?
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LizzyJingleBells
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by spamwolf:
I have to agree with you on this one. No one on the council could figure out that finding the person who will restore balance to the force clearly ment the dark side would make a comeback?

And how about in Episode I, when they're standing right next to Senator Palpatine, and they couldn't pick up on the "bad guy vibes"?

Sigh. I love the original three movies. But I swear Lucas is ruining the whole franchise by making these new ones so poorly.

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Posts: 7725 | From: Columbus, Ohio | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Vhaeraun, the Masked Lord
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by LizzyBasilisk:
Sigh. I love the original three movies. But I swear Lucas is ruining the whole franchise by making these new ones so poorly.

Well, cosnidering he basiclly invented Licensing Deals, and could make Slave Leia Cosplay Outfits knowing they would sell, you have to wonder...

He's doing the "first" three so poorly because it's all about the marketing!! Their a license to print money selling pics of Anakin on toilet paper!!

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Jusenkyo no Pikachu
We Three Blings


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Aren't you forgetting something?

It was in fact supposed to just be a brainless adventure with lots and lots of cool special effects. In fact, it borrows heavily from the 1930's serial flicks (Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers) and I don't think they paid a lot of attention to continuity.

Pi "But we didn't burst into flames in the last chapter!" ka

--------------------
"Never underestimate a nerd from outer space."
--Von, that alien from that Kids Incorporated episode.

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Aureal
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Lulu:
[nerd alert] Aureal, I just wanted to say that I believe Arwen looks startled not because she didn't know the flood was going to happen, but because she went a bit too far and the flood is bigger than she expected.

Yeah, that's exactly why the scene is so ambiguous. There's a bazillion things that two-second shot could be intended to mean, including nothing. It could be "what the hell?! A flood?!" or "oh good, my spell worked", "huh, that's bigger than it was supposed to be...", "it's about time that the flood my dad created got here", and so on. Personally, I just think it's the simplest explanation- she's supposed to have cast a spell to summon it, and Jackson just doesn't give a damn that it's a completely ridiculous thing to have happened according to Tolkien's mythos. It's pretty clear he doesn't, especially after Two Towers. A NFBSKing Elven army going to Rohan's aid? Cripes. [Mad]
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torque91
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Fed:
I think I remember reading about Vader falling into the volcano in some book between the release of Episode IV and V. I think it might have been "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" by Foster, actually fairly fun pulp fiction.

I believe Ben discusses this in the book adaptation of Return Of the Jedi. The book versions of each movie were writen before the movies were released and were based on the original scripts. The final version of a movie often differs from the original script.
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SilverElf4
The Red and the Green Stamps


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Okay, a few words from another SW fanatic.

First of all, back to Ben and the Sand people. He does NOT say blaster shots, he says blast points! And you can see from the background that the doors and treads have been disabled. He refers to the Imperial ability to use fixed explosives, something the Sandpeople seem to have little knowledge or possession of, given their nomadic low tech (at least for Star Wars anyway) lifestyle.

Secondly, in reference to the blind Jedi council, remember that they are just that, blind! Yoda and Mace allude to the fact that they cannot see things clearly anymore, and that the force has become clouded. They dare not make this open knowledge though, because is would cause chaos if the legendary impartial justice of the Jedi Knights was no longer fully effective/functional.

Lastly, a bit of funny humor. When I saw Ep II and Yoda drew his lightsaber, the guy right behind me yelled out "Go Yoda! Make him your Padwan bitch!"

I thank God to this day that my drink was firmly entrenched in the cup holder when he said it. I'd have hated to see the nice lady in front of me covered in Dr. Pepper.

Silver Elf 4

PS - After nearly 100 posts nobody has come up with an actual contradiction in the series that hasnt been explained. And yet some people still believe it. I guess even snopesters have a hard time letting go of urban legends. [Wink]

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caranfin
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Aureal:
It's sort of like that scene in Fellowship of the Ring with Arwen chanting in Elvish at the Ford of Bruinen. It looks like she's casting a magic spell to cause the flood, but I've heard people say she looks startled when it occurs, indicating that she wasn't responsible for it. It's just too ambiguous to be certain what exactly what going on in those scenes. [/QB]

Oh, I know, let's read the book again and see what Arwen thinks about the flood she created... hmmm... still looking...

But getting back to SW, I find it totally believable and in character that Ben would lie to Luke about his father being dead. In a way, he *is* dead. And it prevents Luke from going on a mission to find him. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm 100% sure Lucas had that in mind when he did the first film, but I'm just saying it works.

Luke and Leia being siblings, OTOH... eeewww.

caran "what, *me* anal?" fin

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