quote:Originally posted by lola: The story that we got here was that she was an American size 12, which in Miss Monroe's era it was fashionable to be a size 12, now if your a size 12 your "plus size".
I have from some that she was a size 12 and I have heard from others that she wasn't.
What I have heard is that the sizing itself is different now. In other words someone who bought a size 12 dress in 1960 would in today's sizing be a size 8.
In Monroe's era a size 8 was fashionable...in our day how many famous actresses do you know who would even admit to be size 6?
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posted
Men are also feeling pressure to measure up to a certain image. The other day a co-worker of my male friend told him he would never get married unless he lost weight and got muscles.
I have had people tell me if I lose more weight I'll get a man, or if I wear more makeup I'll get a man, or if I get a career I'll get a man.
quote:Originally posted by Aimee Evilratty: Well, let's see, the magazine is telling us in an article that people shouldn't diet, yet they bombard their readers with the message that you have to be skinny to be pretty? Am I the only one who sees what's wrong with this picture? Honestly... It's because of this crap in the media that my little sister, who's skinnier that I am, thinks she's fat. I'm serious. She does, and it drives me up the freaking wall.
It's because of this crap that my half-sister, who's waaaaaay skinnier than I am, quit taking dance classes: all o' the stick-skinny, probably-jealous fellow students who told her she was "too fat" to be a professional dancer. If she weighs much more than 150, I'll eat my DD titties. (I've always wanted a boob-reduction job anyway... )
-------------------- "Danger is a good teacher, and makes apt scholars. So are disgrace, defeat, exposure to immediate scorn and laughter." - William Hazlitt; _Table-Talk: Essays On Men And Manners_ Posts: 1055 | From: Phoenix, AZ | Registered: Sep 2000
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Lind"Thanks, it was about 5 months ago!"iglo
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Sparverius
The Red and the Green Stamps
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quote:Originally posted by brick: I have no idea what a size 8 means, but what I do know is that a healthy weight for a person who is 5'5" is 110-150, based on a Body Mass Index calculation. I would guess Kate Winslet is flirting with the high end, if not outside, of the healthy range.
Why aren't there models that look more like us? Because we're obese.
Although it is detrimental for the predilections of those who idealize the underweight to color the body maintenance habits of adolescents, it does them no service to encourage them to "learn to love themselves" at any shape.
Why, yes, it's much healthier to make sure that, if they're fat, they're also unhappy and despised by society.
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lola
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What is wrong with poor Kate! She is so beautiful, it seems that Harper's is following in GQ's footsteps. This is from Page 6 in today's NY Post
Kate's head. The body?
HARPER'S Bazaar is denying a story in yesterday's Women's Wear Daily that a body double was used for its cover photo of Kate Winslet . Under the headline "Winslet's Head on Harper's Body," the trade paper reported: "Just days after British GQ confessed to digitally slimming [Winslet] down in its pages, Harper's Bazaar has admitted that its January cover is actually Winslet's head grafted onto fashion director Mary Alice Stephenson's body. A magazine spokesman says Winslet was originally shot against a white background; when editor Glenda Bailey later decided she wanted a gold background instead, Stephenson stood in. (Strands of hair on Winslet's neck in the photo likely conceal the traces of the seam.)" But contacted by PAGE SIX, Scott Currie, the Harper's Bazaar rep who spoke to WWD, backtracked. "I never admitted anything," Currie told us. "I said that Mary Alice stood in to get the lighting right." Stephenson insisted, with a laugh, "I know my body - and that ain't it." A Fairchild spokeswoman said, "We are confident of our sources and we stand by our story."
quote:Originally posted by brick: I have no idea what a size 8 means, but what I do know is that a healthy weight for a person who is 5'5" is 110-150, based on a Body Mass Index calculation. I would guess Kate Winslet is flirting with the high end, if not outside, of the healthy range.
Why aren't there models that look more like us? Because we're obese.
Although it is detrimental for the predilections of those who idealize the underweight to color the body maintenance habits of adolescents, it does them no service to encourage them to "learn to love themselves" at any shape.
Why, yes, it's much healthier to make sure that, if they're fat, they're also unhappy and despised by society.
I think there's a third option, isn't there?
Look, our adolescents need us, desperately, to guide them to a healthy, happy life. They deserve to benefit from our collective wisdom on matters of body, mind, and conscience. We don't have to get hysterical, we can educate.
Posts: 1744 | From: Houston | Registered: Dec 2002
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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
Apparently the "myth" is that she was modern US size 16; at her maximum weight she might well have been a modern US size 12 (British size 16, apparently).
quote:HARPER'S Bazaar is denying a story in yesterday's Women's Wear Daily that a body double was used for its cover photo of Kate Winslet .
Harper's version (that the paper got the wrong end of the stick, and all they were doing was testing the lighting for the new background) makes far more sense than the "switched bodies" one - why would you need to paste a new body in to change the background? And surely it would be obvious, at least to the subject, that it had been done, and that could cause trouble.
Posts: 8725 | From: Ipswich - the UK's 9th Best Place to Sleep! | Registered: Feb 2000
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Sparverius
The Red and the Green Stamps
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quote:Originally posted by brick: [QUOTE]Look, our adolescents need us, desperately, to guide them to a healthy, happy life. They deserve to benefit from our collective wisdom on matters of body, mind, and conscience. We don't have to get hysterical, we can educate.
First of all, I don't necessarily agree that all people who are a few pounds overweight are going to be dead before they're 40 (point in fact: my father, desperately overweight, who's buried most of his friends.) For a jaundiced view on the "scientific evidence" on the dangers of obesity, read the book Never Too Thin.
Secondly, don't kid yourself that the current view of plump women (that is, "Ewww, disgusting") will be useful in helping girls lose weight. Depression, loneliness and self-disgust are powerful motivators to binge eat.
Finally, there's a nice rosy view that "all you have to do is eat sensibly and get a little exercise and you'll be thin". This is a bald-faced lie - you may be in better shape, but 95% of people can do the "sensible" thing, and not end up looking like a cover girl. I'm sure Kate Winslet has plenty of incentive to "eat sensibly", as well as a stable of nutritionists, and personal trainers, and SHE'S not as thin as the magazines want her to be. If you're not genetically programmed to be a twig, "sensible" doesn't get you there.
So, what will girls do? Continue to eat and exercise "sensibly". while listening to boys snigger about what "dogs" they are if they're not skin and bones? Or say, "I don't give a damn about whether it's healthy, I'll smoke, and take diet pills, and stick my finger down my throat to vomit if that fails?"
According to your premise, we would be able to cure drug addiction, alcoholism, and smoking simply by telling people who do these things "you're disgusting, and horrible, and no one will love you unless you stop". Actually, we've tried that - worked really well, hasn't it?
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Ms Stressa, with ratted hair
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quote:Originally posted by brick: Although it is detrimental for the predilections of those who idealize the underweight to color the body maintenance habits of adolescents, it does them no service to encourage them to "learn to love themselves" at any shape.
Bullsh*t.
It is highly unlikely that a person will change or improve their health habits if they do not love themselves and value themselves, regardless of their shape.
So it makes sense to encourage people to love and accept themselves -- in any shape -- so that any improvements they make in their health and physical fitness are also complemented by their mental well being.
(And before you ask something snarky, I'm 5'9", 155 lbs and I do excercise, thank you.)
Whoops - must have hit one of my pet peeves - Stressa
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quote:Originally posted by Ms Stressa, with ratted hair:
quote:Originally posted by brick: Although it is detrimental for the predilections of those who idealize the underweight to color the body maintenance habits of adolescents, it does them no service to encourage them to "learn to love themselves" at any shape.
Bullsh*t.
It is highly unlikely that a person will change or improve their health habits if they do not love themselves and value themselves, regardless of their shape.
So it makes sense to encourage people to love and accept themselves -- in any shape -- so that any improvements they make in their health and physical fitness are also complemented by their mental well being.
(And before you ask something snarky, I'm 5'9", 155 lbs and I do excercise, thank you.)
Whoops - must have hit one of my pet peeves - Stressa
I completely agree. I might better have said, "learn to love their shape, helpless to improve it," except that's not what I hear people saying. Your point is right on, though.
Posts: 1744 | From: Houston | Registered: Dec 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Sparverius: First of all, I don't necessarily agree that all people who are a few pounds overweight are going to be dead before they're 40
I certainly wouldn't agree with a statement like that either.
quote: Secondly, don't kid yourself that the current view of plump women (that is, "Ewww, disgusting") will be useful in helping girls lose weight.
You're right, it's not helping. I raise the issue in the context of this thread not to support pop-culture imagery but to point out that when we attack this imagery to address the problem of underweight girls we must tread carefully; it is a ticklish task to say "your body doesn't need to be shaped like that" without saying "your body is OK no matter what it is shaped like." That is why it is so important for us to take an active approach that will help--an involved discussion on the importance of maintaining self-esteem while avoiding obesity.
quote: Finally, there's a nice rosy view that "all you have to do is eat sensibly and get a little exercise and you'll be thin". This is a bald-faced lie - you may be in better shape, but 95% of people can do the "sensible" thing, and not end up looking like a cover girl.
Yes, this is among the most destructive lies of all. For most of us, it is not anywhere near that simple. All the more reason that it takes the type of instruction, commitment, and support from us that developing the mind and spirit takes.
quote: According to your premise, we would be able to cure drug addiction, alcoholism, and smoking simply by telling people who do these things "you're disgusting, and horrible, and no one will love you unless you stop". Actually, we've tried that - worked really well, hasn't it?
My premise lies nowhere near telling anyone she is disgusting or horrible, for any reason. I'm not saying we can cure any of this, but we should explain to adolescents the dangers of drugs, alcohol, tobacco, and obesity, and give them all we can to help them make informed decisions about how to live their lives.
Posts: 1744 | From: Houston | Registered: Dec 2002
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Snow Angelwings
The Red and the Green Stamps
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WHY is everyone always carrying on about Kate Winslet's weight? The woman isn't even close to being fat. She has a gorgeous, lovely body that I think is ten thousand times hotter than a toothpick supermodel's. Since when did having boobs, a butt, and sweet curves equate to being overweight?
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Plindsey88
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A lot of the women models out there look the way that they do naturally... Not all of them are anorexic or touched up... It is just as mean spirited to demean the way that they look as it is to pick on more shapely women... I think everyone should do there best to be fit, but genetics does come into play, and people are ususally born with a tendency towards one body type or another.... As long as you are healthy within your predetermined body type, I don't see why slim or plump women should get a bad rap... Most guys can go either way (within reason)...
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quote:Originally posted by Snow Angelwings: WHY is everyone always carrying on about Kate Winslet's weight? The woman isn't even close to being fat. She has a gorgeous, lovely body that I think is ten thousand times hotter than a toothpick supermodel's. Since when did having boobs, a butt, and sweet curves equate to being overweight?
This fetish for scrawny women is a fairly modern thing. Look at Rubens' paintings; look at the Venus de Milo; look at Titian and Rembrant.
I prefer a woman who looks like a woman not like a boy carrying plums in his shirt pocket, thank you.
-------------------- "The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch Posts: 3307 | From: Charleston, WV | Registered: Oct 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Elkhound: I prefer a woman who looks like a woman not like a boy carrying plums in his shirt pocket, thank you.
Exactly! I can't be sure what this is supposed to be.
-------------------- "The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch Posts: 3307 | From: Charleston, WV | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
Ugh. Fashion photographers are so out of touch with how the rest of the world sees beauty anyway. And does that GQ photo of Kate Winslet look sort of out-of-proportion to anyone else? It did to me. Photo manipulation always looks fake. Posts: 378 | From: texas | Registered: Sep 2002
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StarlandVocalBand
The Red and the Green Stamps
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quote:Originally posted by Brandi:
quote:Originally posted by Elkhound: I prefer a woman who looks like a woman not like a boy carrying plums in his shirt pocket, thank you.
I can't get to that link. Is this a transgendered person who has transitioned from male to female, or a biological woman with some serious hormone imbalances, or some kind of publicity stunt?
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quote:Originally posted by StarlandVocalBand: I can't get to that link. Is this a transgendered person who has transitioned from male to female, or a biological woman with some serious hormone imbalances, or some kind of publicity stunt?
It's a fashion shoot. A man wearing prosthetic breasts. The whole 'designers with no concept of reality' again.
Posts: 3700 | From: New York | Registered: Aug 2000
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StarlandVocalBand
The Red and the Green Stamps
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quote:Originally posted by Cynestria, world's cutest assassin:
quote:Originally posted by StarlandVocalBand: I can't get to that link. Is this a transgendered person who has transitioned from male to female, or a biological woman with some serious hormone imbalances, or some kind of publicity stunt?
It's a fashion shoot. A man wearing prosthetic breasts. The whole 'designers with no concept of reality' again.
So my third choice was right, then. Hm.
That guy looks eerily like my high-school World Civilization teacher, too. I predict some odd dreams ahead.
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This is a topic I fell very strongly about. While I think outer appearance shouldn't matter, I finbd it does. To an extent anyway. If someone who is overweight loses some weight, they often look infinately better, and no doubt feel it too. I have lost quite a bit of weight in the past and it was such a confidence lifter. However I had tried to lose weight whilst depressed and ended up becoming obsessive and dveeloping anorexia.
So my point is, losing weight is generally good, but only if you are feeling good about yourself inb the first place and just want to lose a bit of weight. Trying to attain impossible goals set my models usually just makes you more miserable when you fail to hit those impossible goals. And anyway, no matter how good you look, if you are constantly worrying about it then no-one will like you anyway.
Like most things in life, it's all about balance.
-------------------- Vox populi vox canem Posts: 1985 | From: Reading, England | Registered: Dec 2002
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lola
The Red and the Green Stamps
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What about young boys in tutus
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Elfant
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Beh. That BMI calculator doesn't take muscle into account. According to it, my boyfriend, a university level defensive lineman who coaches two high school teams and does personal training in his spare time and is probably the fittest person I know, is borderline between Obesity II and Extremely Obese. Yet it says that I am on the low end of normal, even though my doctor seems to think I should lose up to 20 pounds. It all depends on your own body shape and build, and charts like that are more harm than good.
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quote:Originally posted by Elfant: Beh. That BMI calculator doesn't take muscle into account. According to it, my boyfriend, a university level defensive lineman who coaches two high school teams and does personal training in his spare time and is probably the fittest person I know, is borderline between Obesity II and Extremely Obese.
quote:Originally posted by Elfant: Beh. That BMI calculator doesn't take muscle into account. According to it, my boyfriend, a university level defensive lineman who coaches two high school teams and does personal training in his spare time and is probably the fittest person I know, is borderline between Obesity II and Extremely Obese. Yet it says that I am on the low end of normal, even though my doctor seems to think I should lose up to 20 pounds. It all depends on your own body shape and build, and charts like that are more harm than good.
I disagree. We don't have to worry about your boyfriend being misled by the overly simplistic BMI calculation. Expert exercisers like him generally have a much better understanding of their fitness levels than most people, and realize that they must correct for muscle mass. But as an easy, inexpensive way for the average person to ballpark his body fat, I think it does more good than harm.
Posts: 1744 | From: Houston | Registered: Dec 2002
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Elfant
The Red and the Green Stamps
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quote:Originally posted by brick: But as an easy, inexpensive way for the average person to ballpark his body fat, I think it does more good than harm.
I see what you're saying, I just think that there are people who don't fit into that chart, whether due to their bone structure or natural build or whatever, who could be misled.
I suspect that Kate Winslet has more muscle than you are giving her credit for, yet you pointed out that according to the chart, she's nearing overweight.
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posted
I hate when topics like this come up in conversation, because I'm 5'7 and barely weigh 110 lbs. I am a skinny, scrawny twig and there's nothing I can do about it - I've been this way my whole life. It's just the way my body's built. My bones stick out all over the place, I have sharp elbows and narrow wrists, and no matter how much I eat I'll never gain much weight. It's my metabolism and body chemistry. What bothers me is that too many people think I'm anorexic, bulemic, seriously ill, etc. I've even been called into the school counselor about "concerns for my health". But there are some people who are just genetically programmed to be rail-thin. I've always been very active and took gymnastics and dance for years, and even so I never really developed any muscles from it. I know I sound defensive, but I just wish more people knew that some of us are just made this way, and we're not influenced by any pictures in a magazine.
BTW, I like my body even if most men don't.
-------------------- "There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen Won't somebody please think of the adults! Posts: 8254 | From: Florida | Registered: Oct 2002
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And what's worse, Diana, is that you will get very little sympathy for your metabolic dilemma, as the vast majority of us are strugging against the opposite tide. Take heart.
What's important is that you maintain a healthy diet and exercise, despite the fact that you can gulp cheeseburgers from the sofa without gaining an ounce. Cholesterol can sneak up on the thin and unwary, and while your workouts may not build appreciable muscle mass, they will help maintain bone density and have other salutary effects.
Posts: 1744 | From: Houston | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
I find that women's/girls' magazines in general display an incredibly hypocritical attitude to weight and body shape.
As someone pointed out earlier, an article seemingly designed to boost the confidence of the non-supermodels amongst us will be bracketed by adverts and fashion scoops employing precisely those body-types that we're told we don't need to emulate. And probably followed by advice on how to lose a dress size in two weeks by employing some fad diet. Mention of the importance of "fitness" in these magazines (not to mention exhortations to be "toned", or "glowing with health") are, I think, just another way to tell women what they ought to look like.
The ultimate way to boost women's self esteem these days seems to be to include an article bitching about thin women. THis I really can't bear: personal attacks on sub-size-8 women are just as bad as the marketing of fashion using waif-like models. It seems as though the way women look is never good enough. Too fat? Employ this cabbage-soup diet and become magically acceptable. And never forget that the thin woman is your enemy. Too thin? You're simply not "womanly" enough. Etc. etc.
I really try to avoid women's magazines. If I do start getting concerned about my figure or my health then I'd rather buy some kind of earnest outdoor pursuits or running magazine: the primary aim in these at least is to better your fitness or PB, rather than to change the way you look.
Embra.
-------------------- I want you to lay down your life, Perkins. We need a futile gesture at this stage. It will raise the whole tone of the war. Posts: 4495 | From: Surrey, UK | Registered: Jun 2000
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Alexina, northern star
The Red and the Green Stamps
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quote:Originally posted by Elkhound:
quote:Originally posted by Snow Angelwings: WHY is everyone always carrying on about Kate Winslet's weight? The woman isn't even close to being fat. She has a gorgeous, lovely body that I think is ten thousand times hotter than a toothpick supermodel's. Since when did having boobs, a butt, and sweet curves equate to being overweight?
This fetish for scrawny women is a fairly modern thing. Look at Rubens' paintings; look at the Venus de Milo; look at Titian and Rembrant.
ExACTly. I'm 5'8" and weigh about 155. I'm not as slim as I used to be, but I'm not overweight, either. As I mentioned in another thread once before, I really do look roughly like this --
-- except I have arms, of course. And yet, schoolkids see the statue in the Louvre and say, "Ewwwwwwww, she's so FAT."
Sigh... and *that's* what's wrong with the body type promoted by the media. True, the models are NOT all anorexic, and my issue is not with them specifically. The issue is that the media makes it seem that that body type, which occurs in nature relatively infrequently, is the only one that is acceptable. How limiting.
But just think... I could probably be a plus-size model if I really wanted to...
quote:Originally posted by brick: I have no idea what a size 8 means, but what I do know is that a healthy weight for a person who is 5'5" is 110-150, based on a Body Mass Index calculation. I would guess Kate Winslet is flirting with the high end, if not outside, of the healthy range.
Why aren't there models that look more like us? Because we're obese.
Although it is detrimental for the predilections of those who idealize the underweight to color the body maintenance habits of adolescents, it does them no service to encourage them to "learn to love themselves" at any shape.
i hate when people bring BMI into "fatness" arguments. BMI is a good approximator of healthy weight... however...it is NOT a good indicator of FATNESS! body buliders register with BMI's well over 30...but are they obese? NO! women with dense bones, wide bone structures, large breasts, etc...are not going to be accurately represented by the BMI scale. just thought you should know.
Posts: 1 | From: Keller, TX | Registered: Dec 2006
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If you look, your point about BMI was made on the second page of this thread. Also, this thread has been dead for nearly four years.
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