posted
Comment: Hi, I'm a veterinary sciences student. I found this story posted to a pinboard in our lab. I don't know if it's true or not, but it sounds like every other urban legend out there.
"A young pretty woman, out in the world on her own for the first time, buys a Doberman pincher puppy to have as a guard dog. After having the puppy for several weeks, the young woman decides to have the puppy's ears cut and shaped. After the operation, while the woman is carrying the puppy out of the Vet's, an animal right's protester in the street, knowing that this kind of surgery only take place on certain days of the month, begins shouting at her that she wouldn't like it if she had her ears cut off. Not wanting to start a scene, being so new to the neighborhood, the woman tells him to mind his own business and carries the puppy to her car. As she is driving away, feeling safer in her car, the young woman gives the protester the middle finger. The protester follows her and finds out where she lives. Later that night, the puppy, still groggy from the anesthesia, doesn't hear the protester enter the house, and the young woman is awoken by a prick of a needle in her arm. Several seconds later she passes out. Hours pass, and the woman awakes to find herself covered in blood and in excruciating pain. Soon the woman realizes that both of her ears have been cut off, just like the Doberman puppy."
Posts: 36029 | From: Admin | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by snopes: [...]As she is driving away, feeling safer in her car, the young woman gives the protester the middle finger. [...] Hours pass, and the woman awakes to find herself covered in blood and in excruciating pain. Soon the woman realizes that both of her ears have been cut off, just like the Doberman puppy."
Poor woman. No ears, and one missing middle finger.
-------------------- "Nothing is so firmly believed as what we least know." ~ Michel Eyquem de Montaigne Posts: 1382 | From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Aug 2003
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1) why eould these procedures only take place at certian times of thet month? That would make only make it easier to protest and have this happen.
2) Why would you do that to a dog in the first place? is their any advantage?
3) Most people do not perform illegal actions to protest against a perfectly legal action. And why do it to a person who brought the dog in? how would that solve anything to a protester? It would make a lot more sense to do it to the docctor instead of the patients owner. Thats why you hear about abortion clinic bombings/killings instead of people mordered for having one abortion. Even irrational people who go to these extremes think about that. (NOTE: i dont condone extemeist actions of this kind at all just to be clear)
4) how do these protestors find the persons mae and where she lives? Shes new in town, its not like they know here personally and the doctor cant give that information out either.
-------------------- W.W.F.S.M.D? But this image of Bush as some sort of Snidely Whiplash tying the fair maiden to the railroad tracks is beyond the pale. - Joe Bentley Posts: 2311 | From: Minnnesota | Registered: Mar 2004
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4) how do these protestors find the persons mae and where she lives? Shes new in town, its not like they know here personally and the doctor cant give that information out either.
Not to say I think the story is correct but in New Zealand anyway it is pretty easy to find someone's address from a number plate (if they saw the car driving away). Also if it is not too big a town / city and you have enough friends you can cruise the streets till you see that car and assume that's where the person lives.
Posts: 38 | From: Brisbane, Australia | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:why would these procedures only take place at certain times of the month?
Because they're cosmetic procedures, and some vets might very well schedule them when they have extra staff on hand so as not to interfere with their ability to treat sick and injured pets. Some offices only perform spaying/neutering procedures on certain days by appointment for the same reason.
quote:Why would you do that to a dog in the first place?
For the same reason people gets nose jobs and breast enhancements -- because they think it improves one's appearance.
quote:Most people do not perform illegal actions to protest against a perfectly legal action
This isn't a legend about "most people." "Most people" don't go on killing sprees, either; that doesn't mean stories about Ted Bundy aren't true.
quote:how do these protesters find the persons name and where she lives?
The anecdote doesn't say they found out her name. As for where she lives, the narrative states quite plainly: "The protester follows her and finds out where she lives."
posted
How can one follow someone when they're leaving in a car, and you're on foot?
Plus they don't cut off the dog's ears, just trim and clip them upwards...
Sounds like some animal activist story to me.
-------------------- Like Johnny says, I walk the line... Posts: 87 | From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 2003
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NansJns
The Red and the Green Stamps
posted
quote:Originally posted by snopes:
quote:Why would you do that to a dog in the first place?
For the same reason people gets nose jobs and breast enhancements -- because they think it improves one's appearance.
- snopes [/QB]
Not entirely true. Well, today, it is, but once, it wasn't. At least, not for Great Danes; I don't know about dobermans. Great Danes were bred to hunt wild boar, and if their ears were left floppy, the boar could grab the ear, pull the dog down, and trample it to death. Sculpting the ears to make them stand up was a way of protecting the dogs. It no longer serves that purpose, but that's what got it started. I can only assume there was something similar originally for dobies; some effort to protect their ears. And 8ball is right, they don't cut the ears off, they just reshape them and trim them a little.
And do people really protest this kind of procedere? I never heard of that before.
quote:Why would you do that to a dog in the first place?
For the same reason people gets nose jobs and breast enhancements -- because they think it improves one's appearance.
- snopes
Not entirely true. Well, today, it is, but once, it wasn't. At least, not for Great Danes; I don't know about dobermans. Great Danes were bred to hunt wild boar, and if their ears were left floppy, the boar could grab the ear, pull the dog down, and trample it to death. Sculpting the ears to make them stand up was a way of protecting the dogs. It no longer serves that purpose, but that's what got it started. I can only assume there was something similar originally for dobies; some effort to protect their ears. And 8ball is right, they don't cut the ears off, they just reshape them and trim them a little.
And do people really protest this kind of procedere? I never heard of that before.
*~*NansJns*~* [/QB]
I agree, if it was to protect the doberman, their would be no need to protest teh procedure. THis sounds more feasabel than the "cutting off the whole ear thing" Unless the owner wants to risk damaging the dobermans hearing (i really don't know if it could happen or not). I guess this just doesnt add up.
Tru thier are people who are extemists, but cuttign off ones ears after a protest rally of sorts just doesnt sound liek something one would do. From a protestors mind, this person was allready did the activity, their would be no sane reason to break in, drug the person, and then cut off her ears. What woudl the victim gain from this? Its not like she could go back to the vet and say "i regret what i did, can you reverse the procedure?"
Now i am not an expert in this, but this just sounds like teh work of a nutcase if anything trying to hide his crime using the protestors as a scapegoat.
-------------------- W.W.F.S.M.D? But this image of Bush as some sort of Snidely Whiplash tying the fair maiden to the railroad tracks is beyond the pale. - Joe Bentley Posts: 2311 | From: Minnnesota | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by NansJns: And do people really protest this kind of procedere? I never heard of that before.
This was the main point I was thinking of too. These opperations don't really hurt the animal, or have any disadvantages to the animal.... Although I have heard ticks can get in more easily with ears up.
Here's a pic of both incase anyone was unclear on the procedure:
posted
Well it seems quite clear that this is a UL - I think we'd have heard about it in the news, don't you? It seems to be another oneof those 'animal activists are all psycho manic extremists' , doesn't it?
Just as an aside, and I'm sure I'll be getting flamed for this, but I can see why people would be annoyed at cutting dogs ears.
I mean, it's not as if we have wild boar running around much nowadays so unless there is another reason to cut dogs ears, I for one think it's cruel.
8Ball - how do you know it doesn't hurt the dog? I cannot see why any dog lover would want to mutilate their pet!
It's as bad as tail docking.
Does it have any other purpose, does anyone know?
Posts: 884 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Doberman pincers are traditionally surgically altered in three ways:
Their ears are pointed, their tails are docked and often their dew claws are removed.
Ears and tails are fairly standard for most dobermen pincers. Even folks that don't have the ears done will often have the tail docked (natural doberman tails are a painful danger to shins and the contents of coffee tables--it's like being lashed with a cane). Dew claws tend to get caught on things and are a source of pain and infection for a dog, so many owners also have them removed.
-------------------- A Lie can run around the world before the Truth can get its boots on. - Terry Pratchett
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions; but everyone is not entitled to their own facts. - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan Posts: 2495 | From: Connecticut | Registered: Oct 2000
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quote: Ears and tails are fairly standard for most dobermen pincers. Even folks that don't have the ears done will often have the tail docked (natural doberman tails are a painful danger to shins and the contents of coffee tables--it's like being lashed with a cane). Dew claws tend to get caught on things and are a source of pain and infection for a dog, so many owners also have them removed.
Ok, OK, so cutting the dew claws, I can see that it has a reason - its kinder to cut them rather than let them get infected. Fair enough
But I still don't get the ears and the tail? We are just altering nature to make it more user-friendly.
I find it horrid. My poor (rescued) rottie pedigree had her tail docked when she was a puppy. Poor thing, when she's happy she only has this little stump to wag. Very sad.
Posts: 884 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote:Originally posted by ULTRAGOTHA: Their ears are pointed, their tails are docked and often their dew claws are removed.
Ears and tails are fairly standard for most dobermen pincers. Even folks that don't have the ears done will often have the tail docked (natural doberman tails are a painful danger to shins and the contents of coffee tables--it's like being lashed with a cane). Dew claws tend to get caught on things and are a source of pain and infection for a dog, so many owners also have them removed.
In most breeds, dew claws can be left on. In my dogs (I have shelties, several with frontal dew claws), they haven't ever gotten caught on anything or gotten infected. As long as they're trimmed regularly, an owner shouldn't have any problems with them.
That said, given the context, if one is against having tail/ears docked, they should also be against getting the dew claws removed because all it does is cause a puppy unneccessary pain that can be prevented by regular trimming of the said dew claws.
Morrigan
-------------------- "The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep." Robert Frost, Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening Posts: 1701 | From: Michigan | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Ghost on Toast: Poor thing, when she's happy she only has this little stump to wag. Very sad.
I doubt she minds.
An animal will, of course, mind the discomfort associated with post-operative recovery. But I've rarely seen any animal mind it to the extent of showing pain. And I've cared for post-operative tail dockings, dew claw removals, spays, neuters, and exploratory surgeries. With the exception of the exploratory surgery cat, who was very very ill otherwise, none of the animals indicated much pain at all.
It's good to care for animals. I don't have a problem with that. But I object to anthropomorphizing animals too much.
-------------------- A Lie can run around the world before the Truth can get its boots on. - Terry Pratchett
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions; but everyone is not entitled to their own facts. - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan Posts: 2495 | From: Connecticut | Registered: Oct 2000
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quote: But I object to anthropomorphizing animals too much.
(devil's advocate)
Isn't docking though, today, outside of the reasons mentioned (risks of infection in claws and tail, etc.) done as a historical tradition?
Even the AKC says that docking operations are "acceptable practices integral to defining and preserving breed character..."
Could that be considered a form of anthropomorphication of the dogs?
I'm not saying one way or the other, I'm just considering.
(/devil's advocate)
There's a pro-docking link I found off of the Wikipedia entry on docking that says:
quote: A dog's tail is not a limb
I'm not sure how I feel about that statement. At which point does an animal's tail not become a limb? A kangaroo's tail is a limb, a cheetah's tail is a limb, a baboon's tail is a limb, but why not a dog's?
-------------------- Mr. Sagan did not go too fars, If you just took the time to scan its, You'd count billions and billions of stars, And billions and billions of planets. Posts: 332 | From: Kansas City, MO | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
My sister in law has a pit bull with an undocked tail. It can sweep a coffee table clean of glassware, and lash your legs hard enough to leave a red line.
-------------------- Never make fun of a man's fish, especially if it is 40 feet tall and aluminum. Posts: 949 | From: Central California | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by 8Ball: How can one follow someone when they're leaving in a car, and you're on foot?...
My guess would be that you get in your own car...or are we assuming that animals rights activists don't drive or that because the car isn't specifically mentioned there could not have been one?
Sounds apocryphal, but not because of inconsistencies in the story.
-------------------- "I've argued in front of every judge in this state, often as a lawyer." Posts: 1021 | From: Northwest Indiana | Registered: May 2004
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quote:Originally posted by 8Ball: How can one follow someone when they're leaving in a car, and you're on foot?...
My guess would be that you get in your own car...or are we assuming that animals rights activists don't drive or that because the car isn't specifically mentioned there could not have been one?
Sounds apocryphal, but not because of inconsistencies in the story.
-------------------- "I've argued in front of every judge in this state, often as a lawyer." Posts: 1021 | From: Northwest Indiana | Registered: May 2004
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quote:We are just altering nature to make it more user-friendly.
But isn't that exactly what we've been doing with centuries of dog breeding? Make the animal smaller, make it bigger, shorten its coat, lengthen its coat, smush its snout, extend its snout...
Domestic dogs are already pretty far from nature's hand. And philosophically, I'm not sure that surgical alteration is really that different from selective breeding (especially if you consider all of the congenital defects and disorders that breeding has fostered). I'm not saying this makes tail-docking and ear-shaping not at all wrong, but it seems to me that if you are upset by these "unnatural" changes, you should be upset by breeding practices just as much.
No, but I do. It was a completely unneccesary operation. If she had been mine from birth, I would not have allowed it and I think it should be banned.
quote: But I object to anthropomorphizing animals too much.
So do I but I do not believe that objecting to docking a tail is anthropomorphizing an animal. It's caring for their welfare in not wishing to see them mutilated just for cosmetic reasons.
quote:I'm not saying this makes tail-docking and ear-shaping not at all wrong, but it seems to me that if you are upset by these "unnatural" changes, you should be upset by breeding practices just as much.
Logoboros, you have assumed that I am not bothered by breeding practices without asking me first.
I am in fact very disturbed by breeding practices. These quests for so-called perfection by the breeding community have left us with deaf dalmations, British bulldogs with severe breathing difficulties and hundreds of more examples.
All to win dog shows? It's disgusting.
Posts: 884 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Ghost on Toast: I would not have allowed it and I think it should be banned.
I don't have any problem with folks who think something is wrong not doing it themselves.
But I do have a rather large problem with folks that think something is wrong trying to stop other folks from doing it.
Personally, I think spending large sums of money, especially where the parties can’t afford it, on weddings, funerals, and even interior decorating is wrong. I’ve seen on Home and Garden TV the design of one room costing over $100,000. That’s sinfully wasteful. Obscene. Horribly wrong.
I also think that people buying large, gas guzzling cars who don’t need the space are wrong.
I think making cheap items that break easily is wrong, and throwing things away because it’s cheaper to buy a new one than fix the old one is wrong—the old one ought to be built so it can be fixed inexpensively.
I think no one should be able to get pierced until they’re an adult, regardless of what the parent’s think.
But ban this stuff? Legislate it? Force other people to live by my notions of morality? No.
I’ll cheerfully pursuade and argue my points. And of course, I won’t do such things myself. But I also won’t work for any laws to ban such behavior.
Don’t dock tails. Don’t buy from breeders who approve of tail docking. Write pamphlets about why you feel tail docking shouldn’t be done, and educate folks. But don’t ban it.
We have far, far more important things for our legislators and law enforcement personnel to do. And more important things to spend energy on. Like children starving in Oregon. Or unplanned pregnancies. Or illiteracy.
-------------------- A Lie can run around the world before the Truth can get its boots on. - Terry Pratchett
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions; but everyone is not entitled to their own facts. - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan Posts: 2495 | From: Connecticut | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
A shelties ears are supposed to be floppy, as are most herding dogs. Unfortunatly, the only way to do this is to put irritating weights on the puppies ears until they flop naturally. We tried it with our collie we had, but she didn't like it. My sheltie has one ear that kinda flops and one that doesn't.
Although flopping ears is not a surgical operation, it is just like the ear shaping of dobies in that it is for cosmetics. And it gives an entirely different look to the dogs. Without it, they look like big love muffins. With it, they look like big love muffins who are constantly on alert to bite your face off.
I dont advocate getting a dog solely for protection, nor do I advocate any of the proceedure mentioned, but I can understand how a single woman would want her dog to at least look alert and vicious even if he was a big fluff muffin.
Not really a point, just my two cents.
-------------------- “You want to know what marriage is really like? You wake up she's there. You come back from work she's there. You fall asleep she's there…I know that sounds like a bad thing. But, it's not. Not if it's the right person.” ~Raymond Barone Posts: 334 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I've never been a fan of tail and ear docking, but oddly enough, I never considered the idea that it's done surgically under anesthesia. I always pictured somebody coming after the dog with a butcher knife. *shrug* Anyway, there's no real purpose for it now. Ghost on Toast-You're right, selective breeding has left many breeds with health problems. However, I'm assuming most of it was done before people understood enough about genetics to forsee the health problems it could create.
Posts: 885 | From: Florida | Registered: May 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ghost on Toast: It's caring for their welfare in not wishing to see them mutilated just for cosmetic reasons.
With Rottweilers, it's not exactly cosmetic. Although a non-working individual Rottwieler won't "suffer" from having the tail left on, it could destroy the Rottie as a working breed to stop docking.
-------------------- Semper ubi sub ubi Posts: 1175 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by KatiKat in the Hat: A shelties ears are supposed to be floppy, as are most herding dogs. Unfortunatly, the only way to do this is to put irritating weights on the puppies ears until they flop naturally. We tried it with our collie we had, but she didn't like it. My sheltie has one ear that kinda flops and one that doesn't.
Although flopping ears is not a surgical operation, it is just like the ear shaping of dobies in that it is for cosmetics. And it gives an entirely different look to the dogs. Without it, they look like big love muffins. With it, they look like big love muffins who are constantly on alert to bite your face off.
I dont advocate getting a dog solely for protection, nor do I advocate any of the proceedure mentioned, but I can understand how a single woman would want her dog to at least look alert and vicious even if he was a big fluff muffin.
Not really a point, just my two cents.
Definately not a point. Not even a correct point, I must add.
Shelties don't have "floppy ears." They are supposed to have 3/4 tipped ears, meaning only 1/4 of the ear is supposed to be tipped.
Most sheltie's ears tip like this naturally, with no "irritating aids." And, you don't put weights on them, you actually glue them down. If they tip too much, too little (aka prick ears), too far apart, then they're glued so they have the desired earset. It doesn't hurt the dog, unless it's being done wrong.
This is the desired earset:
I prefer the natural, tipped, earset of most shelties, rather than the pricked ears of some. To me, the tipped ears look more like a "big love muffin."
Trying to correct a faulty earset by tipping them artificially glueing them is nothing like cropping ears and tails. Nothing. I really can't believe that they've actually been compared.
Morrigan
A note: the sheltie in the picture is Can. Ch. Birdsong Leathal Weapon
-------------------- "The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep." Robert Frost, Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening Posts: 1701 | From: Michigan | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
I wasn't really trying to compare the two, I was trying to show that dogs can be altered for looks in ways that aren't surgical. And when we had my collie, it was done with weights. I dont know how my shelties ears were tipped, maybe she was born that way, i dunno. I didn't rescue her until she was about two.
-------------------- “You want to know what marriage is really like? You wake up she's there. You come back from work she's there. You fall asleep she's there…I know that sounds like a bad thing. But, it's not. Not if it's the right person.” ~Raymond Barone Posts: 334 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:My sister in law has a pit bull with an undocked tail.
You make it sound as if they are supposed to be docked hehehe
Actually, when i worked at a boarding kennel we got a few dogs that eventually had to have their tails cut off. And believe me, it's MUCH more traumatic when the dog is 5 years old, than 1 day old. One was a greyhound, her tail was long and slender and the tip would split open when she wagged it and it struck everything in sight. Blood could be found in every room she walked through. Oh yeah, THAT was fun. For us and that dog...i'm sure.
Ear cropping on the other hand...perhaps it's uncomfortable, but you have to understand that it's typically done in larger, more imposing breeds of dog. IMHO, if a doberman or great dane can't handle a bit of soreness (and yes, the dogs are given pain relievers) in their ears...god forbid a tresspasser strike them as they are protecting their house. What a lousy guard dog that would make. And yes, most people get dobermans, rotties, and boxers as house guards as well as pets. Otherwise, we'd all have little lap dogs
My dog's ears were cropped as a puppy. i didn't have her as a puppy, and i'm glad. Ear cropping is a laborus time period. Typically, the puppy has no idea that they have been "mutilated" and should be in terrible pain. The hardest part is keeping the puppy calm enough for the stitches to hold. i might crop my next dog's ears, should i feel they aren't lying properly, and if i feel up to the task.
Honestly, it's not as if i do this in my kitchen. It's done in a pet hospital, with anesthesia (sp??) and pain killers afterwards. The problems are very minimal and with my breed, there's less worries about getting a ear torn or nearly ripped off. Has anyone here ever tried to stop a bleeding dog ear? Oh my, near impossible. And if it's split...no use trying to stop the blood, just take the dog to the vet for stitches.
-------------------- i'm not mean, you're just a sissy. Posts: 68 | From: Oregon, USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote: With Rottweilers, it's not exactly cosmetic. Although a non-working individual Rottwieler won't "suffer" from having the tail left on, it could destroy the Rottie as a working breed to stop docking.
Ok, in the UK the Rottweiler is not a working breed. It is often used as a guard dog, this is it. Therefore it doesn't need a tail-docking.
quote: But I do have a rather large problem with folks that think something is wrong trying to stop other folks from doing it.
You know what? I agree with your points there, they annoy me too and yes, I don't generally go around telling people what to do and what to ban but in the case of the UK where the vast majority of dogs are pets not working and they are having their tails cropped to meet some kind of cosmetic perfection - I do mind and I do think it should be banned. It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it.
Remember - without those "folks that think something is wrong trying to stop other folks from doing it" we would still have things like cock-fighting, badger baiting, dog fighting and child labour and slavery.
Sure these things are way bigger than tail-docking but if you think something is wrong - shouldn't you speak up about it?
quote: Don’t dock tails. Don’t buy from breeders who approve of tail docking. Write pamphlets about why you feel tail docking shouldn’t be done, and educate folks. But don’t ban it.
I don't dock, or buy from docking breeders (My Rotty is from a rescue home) and I try to educate people when they say they want to buy a puppy. But still - yes ban it.
quote: We have far, far more important things for our legislators and law enforcement personnel to do. And more important things to spend energy on. Like children starving in Oregon. Or unplanned pregnancies. Or illiteracy
Once again you are assuming the USA is the capital of the universe. YOU may have better things to do and so do we in the UK but different issues get different people in different ways.
For your information I also get involved in environmental matters, I campaigned to ban animal circuses in my area, I campaigned to stop my local pool being shut and in my work as a journalist I've dug up an exposed stories of incredible human misery and yes, I have helped solve them
So I'm just just a big ole moaning minnie about this issue alone.
Posts: 884 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Ear cropping is, I believe, illegal in the UK (and Australia and New Zealand too). Tail docking may only be carried out by vets - but the RCVS (Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons) has declared this practice an "unacceptable mutilation" and many vets are not prepared to do it for purely aesthetic reasons anymore.
-------------------- Silence should never under any circumstances be construed as agreement. A lot of the time, it's simply a reflection that someone just said something so stupid that no response could possibly do it justice. - Ramblin' Dave Posts: 8528 | From: Nottingham, England | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Ghost on Toast: OK, OK, OK.
quote: With Rottweilers, it's not exactly cosmetic. Although a non-working individual Rottwieler won't "suffer" from having the tail left on, it could destroy the Rottie as a working breed to stop docking.
Ok, in the UK the Rottweiler is not a working breed. It is often used as a guard dog, this is it. Therefore it doesn't need a tail-docking.
In the States, the Rott is considered a working dog, although it could be considered a herding dog as well.
Morrigan
-------------------- "The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep." Robert Frost, Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening Posts: 1701 | From: Michigan | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Ghost on Toast: ]Ok, in the UK the Rottweiler is not a working breed. It is often used as a guard dog, this is it. Therefore it doesn't need a tail-docking.
The Rottweiler is a working breed, period.
It doesn't matter what the majority of the dogs are doing for a living, if the breed is true to working type. By your standards there isn't a working breed left, the majority of all dogs are pets.
How do you figure that protection/police/guarding is not work?
-------------------- Semper ubi sub ubi Posts: 1175 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jan 2003
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What I am saying is that - particularly in the UK - dogs are principally pets.
Therefore whether they are historically a working dog or not doesn't matter - hardly any of the hundreds born every year will ever actuall be any thing more than a pet.
Therefore why dock all tails if only a fraction will need a docked tail for working purposes?
quote: By your standards there isn't a working breed left, the majority of all dogs are pets.
Can you explain further what you mean by this, I do not understand.
quote:How do you figure that protection/police/guarding is not work?
Again you've misunderstood me. I said that in the UK the Rotty isn't considered a working breed, but the few that are are generally in security. I didn't say that this wasn't work but was implying that very few are anything more than pets.
In the UK, btw, the police generally use Alsations although they are exerimenting with the idea of using dogs with a fiercer reputation such as Rotties and Dobermans.
Posts: 884 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2002
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