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Author Topic: Don't Ask..Don't Tell...Can't Serve
kch8021
I Saw Three Shipments


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In this New Year, with the war going on strong, Bush is thinking about bringing back the draft. They are now recruiting 40 year olds...

But, they are still using the Don't Ask/Don't Tell policy. Come on, they want to serve, homosexuality is no longer a mental illness.

If you are of a mind to it, Call, e-mail, or send a letter to your congressman. Send Bush a letter to let him know how you feel. Let them use up all their options before using the draft.

If you don't beleive that Gays should serve in the military, please accept my apology and my sympathy.

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ASL
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by kch8021:
In this New Year, with the war going on strong, Bush is thinking about bringing back the draft.

Didn't we just have a thread about this claim and how it is completely untrue?

quote:
But, they are still using the Don't Ask/Don't Tell policy. Come on, they want to serve, homosexuality is no longer a mental illness.
Since we're on this subject again, I'm curious... Can people be kicked out just for acknowledging they are gay, even if they've never actually performed any homosexual acts in the military? I'm really curious because a guy on my ship just got kicked out for this and, quite honestly, no one bothered to to tell his Division Officer (me) or his Chief until he was already gone. I'm pretty sure the guy just wanted out (he had discussed it several times) and figured this was the easiest way to go. I'm incredibly pissed off because near as I can tell, the entire "investigation" consisted of the member, the legal officer, the CO, probably the XO and CMC, and maybe his derpatment head. All this crap went on without the knowledge of his direct superiors and so neither I or my chief ever had a chance to throw in our two cents and say "Honestly, we think the guy just wants to go home" like we would at says a Captain's Mast or Executive Officer's Inquiry. It just seems totally NFNSK'ed up.

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TrekkerScout
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by kch8021:
In this New Year, with the war going on strong, Bush is thinking about bringing back the draft. They are now recruiting 40 year olds...

Cite, please.
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Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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The upper age limit for inductees isn't 40.

It's 42.

quote:
In an effort to boost the ranks even further, the Army has twice this year raised the maximum active duty age to 42. This January, the Army followed in the footsteps of the Army Reserves, which last year raised its age limit from 35 to 40. In June, that maximum eligibility was raised to 42.
Can't help you on the Bush-wants-a-draft thing.

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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Matt H.
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by ASL:
Since we're on this subject again, I'm curious... Can people be kicked out just for acknowledging they are gay, even if they've never actually performed any homosexual acts in the military?

Yes. Homosexuality is defined in the military as any behavior that fits into at least one of the following categories:

1. Statement--An affirmative statement on the part of the servicemember that states that he or she is a homosexual.

2. Act--Any intimate act or attempted intimate act willingly and knowingly conducted with another person of the same sex.

3. Marriage--Any marriage or attempted marriage knowingly to a person of the same sex.

Usually, though, a statement will not suffice for discharge (although, legally, it can)--there usually needs to be corroborating evidence that the servicemember in question is actually gay. The reason for this is to avoid having straight members simply announcing their homosexuality to gain a discharge.

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kch8021
I Saw Three Shipments


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If I understand you correctly, you are against Openly Gay People serving in the military. You also do not beleive that there is any chance of reinstating the draft.
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infoseeker822
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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i'd love to see them bring back the draft.

do you really think people are going to allow their kids to go now?

there is no damn way that the draft is coming back.

as for gays serving in the miltary, what is the big friggn deal?

gay people work everywhere else, why not the miltary too?

or are there too many homophobes in the miltary?

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mizzie
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Honestly, I couldn't care less if a man is homosexual or not. I think Louis Ramey (comidian) said it best. This isn't word for word, it's been a while since I saw his act, but:

"If I'm fighting for my country, I want the guy covering my [butt] who thinks my [butt] is hot. 'They got Louis?!? Girl, we got to get him back!'"

^_^

But, as to if or why they use "don't ask, don't tell", I have no idea.

*Edited to add link* Ok, I was off, but here's a link to his act, if you want: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXchYs9pjLs
Basic messese still applies.

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TrekkerScout
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by kch8021:
You also do not beleive that there is any chance of reinstating the draft.

And you have yet to cite anywhere that President Bush supports reinstating the draft. There are inividual congressmen (Charlie Rangel) who want to bring back the draft, but Bush has always been opposed to the idea.
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Sara at home
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quote:
Originally posted by infoseeker822:
do you really think people are going to allow their kids to go now?

Huh? How do people prevent their kids from "going now" which I am assuming means enlist. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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Kitten
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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quote:
Originally posted by infoseeker822:
do you really think people are going to allow their kids to go now?

I for one, have a son and a daughter who both enlisted at the same time in 2006. Am I thrilled with it? No. Am I proud of them and their decision to enlist in these times? Without a doubt. Furthermore, it's not a matter of "allow"ing them to go...It's a matter of accepting their decision and supporting them in every way you can.
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Kitten
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Draft article - December 2006

This seems to be in direct conflict with your statment regarding the draft.

As for your concerns about gays in the military. I have no real feelings one way or the other, however, I do see the military's view on it. They are careful about how male and females interact because nothing causes dissension in the ranks like personal emotions. If you introduced gays into the mix, how do you have any control on minimizing those risks?

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Michigan Girl
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Originally posted by mizzie:
"If I'm fighting for my country, I want the guy covering my [butt] who thinks my [butt] is hot. 'They got Louis?!? Girl, we got to get him back!'"

Mizzie, can I use this for my sig line please?

Thanks!

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kch8021
I Saw Three Shipments


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quote:
Originally posted by Kitten:
quote:
Originally posted by infoseeker822:
do you really think people are going to allow their kids to go now?

I for one, have a son and a daughter who both enlisted at the same time in 2006. Am I thrilled with it? No. Am I proud of them and their decision to enlist in these times? Without a doubt. Furthermore, it's not a matter of "allow"ing them to go...It's a matter of accepting their decision and supporting them in every way you can.

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Lizzy
I Saw Three Shipments


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I always wondered, if they re-instate the draft, could you claim to be gay and then you wouldn't have to go?

The Don't-Ask-Don't-Tell policy was first enforced after the last draft ended, correct? So would this issue even have come up?

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kch8021
I Saw Three Shipments


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quote:
Originally posted by Kitten:
quote:
Originally posted by infoseeker822:
do you really think people are going to allow their kids to go now?

I for one, have a son and a daughter who both enlisted at the same time in 2006. Am I thrilled with it? No. Am I proud of them and their decision to enlist in these times? Without a doubt. Furthermore, it's not a matter of "allow"ing them to go...It's a matter of accepting their decision and supporting them in every way you can.
I am proud of your son and daughter also. But had your daughter or son been openly gay, no matter how badly the recruiter needs to meet his quota, they would be rejected, no matter what their qualifications.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0820righttoserve0820.html

The difference now from in the past,
they are no longer ashamed of being gay, they are out and proud, along with being as patriotic as your son and daughter.

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kch8021
I Saw Three Shipments


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http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/bush-us-needs-to-increase-size-of-army/n20061220111109990019

Let's pretend that Bush follows through with increasing the amount of soldiers in Iraq, or he decides hey let's invade Iran. Where are they going to get these people from.

The whole point of this thread is allow anyone who wants to serve to serve.

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cageboy
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Seeing how I know 3 people in my town alone who were rejected (one failed to meet certain test criteria, the other two weren't physically what they should be for what they wanted to do) I'm not sure how they would need to meet their quota or draft if they are turning people away. I know this doesn't help the gay argument at all.

As for the don't ask don't tell policy:
"Sexual orientation will not be a bar to service unless manifested by homosexual conduct. The military will discharge members who engage in homosexual conduct, which is defined as a homosexual act, a statement that the member is homosexual or bisexual, or a marriage or attempted marriage to someone of the same gender." — quoted in "The Pentagon's New Policy Guidelines on Homosexuals in the Military", The New York Times (July 20, 1993), p.A14.

This was signed into law by President Clinton, not President Bush. Keep in mind that you can be removed from the military for having heterosexual relations with other combatants as well. Like the previous post stated relations, of any kind, are to be avoided in the military.

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ASL
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by cageboy:
This was signed into law by President Clinton, not President Bush. Keep in mind that you can be removed from the military for having heterosexual relations with other combatants as well. Like the previous post stated relations, of any kind, are to be avoided in the military.

But there's still a huge difference between heterosexual conduct and homosexual conduct. If Seaman Jane and Seaman Timmy are caught making out in berthing, they'll go to mast and be punished severely, but they probably won't get kicked out unless they've gone to mast before. However, if Seaman Timmy and Fireman Timmy get caught making out in berthing, they're both done, end of story. If some guy shouts at the top of his lungs "I love women" then no one will care. If some guy shouts at the top of his lungs "I want to have sex with another man!" then he could, apparently, get kicked out for it.

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Matt H.
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by cageboy:
Keep in mind that you can be removed from the military for having heterosexual relations with other combatants as well. Like the previous post stated relations, of any kind, are to be avoided in the military.

Nope...Not even close. Many relationships develop within military units.

Sexual (among other types) relations between officers and enlisted or superior and subordinate are banned under UCMJ. So is adultery. There is no blanket ban on heterosexual sex otherwise.

There are certain times where command policy forbids sexual relationships, but those are rare, with the exception of (in the Army) Basic Combat Training. In fact, in my career, BCT has been the only time where we have not been allowed to have sex with other soldiers. There's not even a ban in CENTCOM.

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Malruhn
The "Was on Sale" Song


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Military ethics policies prevent members of the same unit, under the same command, from being romantically involved. If a member finds that they are becoming potentially interested in a romantic relationship, they are supposed to coordinate through the command for a transfer of one of the members. It could be across a sidewalk to another unit, but it MUST be done.

To not do it is a violation of the UCMJ.

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DemonWolf
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by kch8021:

Let's pretend that Bush follows through with increasing the amount of soldiers in Iraq, or he decides hey let's invade Iran. Where are they going to get these people from.

He's not going to get the troops. With less than two years lef in office, he does not have the time to pass the necissary draft legislation (which he opposes anyway) and for it to take effect. By the time the military was staffed and ready to invade he (and his whole cabinet) would have been replaced.

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ASL
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Malruhn:
Military ethics policies prevent members of the same unit, under the same command, from being romantically involved. If a member finds that they are becoming potentially interested in a romantic relationship, they are supposed to coordinate through the command for a transfer of one of the members. It could be across a sidewalk to another unit, but it MUST be done.

To not do it is a violation of the UCMJ.

Not the UCMJ I remember. I'm pretty sure that relationships among members of a command are left up to the command, with the exception of things like fratnerization, which is covered in the UCMJ.

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Matt H.
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by ASL:
quote:
Originally posted by Malruhn:
Military ethics policies prevent members of the same unit, under the same command, from being romantically involved. If a member finds that they are becoming potentially interested in a romantic relationship, they are supposed to coordinate through the command for a transfer of one of the members. It could be across a sidewalk to another unit, but it MUST be done.

To not do it is a violation of the UCMJ.

Not the UCMJ I remember. I'm pretty sure that relationships among members of a command are left up to the command, with the exception of things like fratnerization, which is covered in the UCMJ.
You are correct.

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FuzzDuckie
Happy Holly Days


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even when a soldier is married to a civilian who potentially could work at the same place, its not encouraged. I would think this would hold true also for 2 military personnel... I'm not sure so don't quote me on that.

My father worked as a pharmacist at his Army Base; my mother, an RN, was not allowed to work in the same hospital as him so she had to apply to a different base hospital (she was the civilian).

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