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Author Topic: NFBSKing Atari NWN2
Morrigan
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I am so NFBSKing pissed off right now it's not even funny.

Got Neverwinter Nights 2 for a Christmas present. Installed it onto my laptop. My 4 month old laptop.

NFBSKer won't play because my computer doesn't have the right type of 3D graphics card. My computer has one-but not one of the TWO that the game needs. It does not support any Intel cards. Which is what my computer has.

What load of shit. I've been waiting since I heard that this game was coming out until I could get it, and now that I've got it, it won't play.

It won't play on my parent's PC either, due to the same problem. Only with them, it's also a memory problem.

NFBSKing Atari.

Morrigan

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"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep." Robert Frost, Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening

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Black Sunshine
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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I feel your pain. I keep putting off installing NWN2 because I'm pretty sure my graphics card isn't up to snuff. I had a friend send me a list of graphics cards that have been tested with NWN2, and mine wasn't on it. So, rather than suffer the disapointment of not being able to play because of the graphics card, the game is just sitting on my computer desk. *sigh*

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Errata
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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My four year old computer plays it fine, except for rather slow load times. By "two cards" you mean ATI and NVidia? Those two companies really dominate the entire market, so its not exactly unreasonable. If you don't have one of those you probably don't have a machine designed for gaming. You can't just buy a non-gaming computer and expect it to play everything. The Intel card you're talking about is probably one of those ones that come built into your motherboard. Those are designed just for very basic functions for use on business or budget machines for people who don't want to pay extra to be able to play all the latest games.
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Eddylizard
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I feel your pain. A couple of years ago DS wanted a game (I think it was Sims 2.) The £39.99 price tag was just about do-able in the financial comfort zone for me.

In the end I had to install extra memory and a new graphics card to get it to run. Great, an extra £150 of components to run one poxy game.

With no evidence to back this up I've often suspected that games developers have the latest top of the range kit, and assume their customers must have too.

Now whisper the slogan with me "EA Games - Upgrade everything."

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Morrigan
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Errata-I bought my laptop specifically for gaming. It was supposedly designed for gaming. Payed 1500 dollars for a computer supposedly that I could play this game on. I bought this computer with NWN2 in mind. I asked the NFBSKing salesperson if it would play NWN2. Answered "yes." Basic machine? *snort* Yeah, right. The kind of memory and stuff that this LAPTOP has in it should suffice-which is also what I was told.

It's played everything else I've thrown at it. I expected it to play this.

And I'm not the only person who's had this problem with NWN2. Over at the Atari Forums, other's are complaining of the same problem.

Morrigan

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"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep." Robert Frost, Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening

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Gil
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Ouch.. sorry to hear about that, Morrigan. I had that happen to me a while back when BF2 first came out.

To be brutal, if you paid that much money for a laptop meant for gaming and it DOESN'T have an nVidia or ATI graphics card, then you got ripped off. 95% of the gaming market uses one of those two brands, and the remaining 5% are either specialty cards or ones that aren't meant for gaming and just happen to be compatible with one or the other's standards. Intel adapters in particular are very much low-end, does-the-basics, no-frills adapters and they regularly fail to meet the requirements of more recent games.

Of course none of that helps you get the game running. I'd suggest you call the laptop manufacturer and give them an earful (politely) about how you were sold on that model specifically because you were told it would run NWN2. If that's true, then it would be in their best interest to either refund your money or upgrade the laptop to something that DOES play the game, or else they're opening themselves up for some serious fraud allegations.

If you're lucky, Atari will put out a patch that will allow the game to run on your adapter, but it may be a while.. that sort of revision isn't exactly simple and it will depend on whether they think it's worth the extra expense incurred to redo existing code.

The last thing I have to say on the topic is to everyone out there who reads this.. Always check with the software manufacturer before buying new hardware for a specific application. Just because the salesperson says it will work doesn't make it so. Spending a bunch of money on anything based simply on someone else's word is never a good idea.

Wish you the best of luck with that, Morrigan.

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Morrigan
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I'm going to take the laptop and game back into Best Buy (where we got both) and give them an earful like you suggested Gil.

Morrigan

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"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep." Robert Frost, Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening

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Gil
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Good for you Morrigan!

A quick word of advice.. remember to be polite about it, and if the customer service monkeys decide to be difficult, ask for a manager and don't let them bully you into leaving without speaking to someone in authority. Furthermore, find the number for Best Buy's corporate office (should be easy to find on the Net) and don't be afraid to call it on your cell if they really try to be difficult. Make sure they know that you're calling. But always be polite, or at least professional. I've seen people go nuts thinking that it will help them intimidate the store staff into agreeing, but it usually ends up with the police being called.

I have friends who work retail and they all agree that they're more likely to make exceptions and bend the rules (if necessary) for someone who is confident and polite as opposed to someone who is demanding and unpleasant.

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Astra
The "Was on Sale" Song


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Best Buy customer service contact info

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This has been yet another... USELESS POST.

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Morrigan
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Thanks Gil & Astra!

And everyone else.

It's just so dang frustrating!

Morrigan

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"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep." Robert Frost, Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening

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Auntie Witch
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I, too, would blame the retailer that sold you the laptop. I got NWN2 for J, and he's been playing it on a computer that was discarded by someone because it was old. I think he added memory, and that was it.

If his junk computer could run it, I would assume that a new laptop would, unless someone lied to your or fudged a bit on what it came with.

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Morrigan
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I say I was lied to. I specifically asked the salesperson if it would play NWN2 (back in August, though) and I was assured it would. I was also told that it would play any new games that were coming out.

Luckily I wasn't the only one there-my mother was there when I was told those things. Depending on when I have to work, either Friday or Wednesday we're going to take both the game and the computer into Best Buy and talk to a manager about what can be done to fix the problem.

I'm not sure what they can do, though.

Morrigan

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"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep." Robert Frost, Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening

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Astra
The "Was on Sale" Song


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Morrigan - what model is your PC?

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This has been yet another... USELESS POST.

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Not_Done_Living
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Hmm.. You made an advanced purchase of hardware, to support yet to be released software, and relied on a Best Buy monkey's advice rather then going to the publishers website and verifying the supported chipsets (readily available information) and then blame the BBM for "lieing"?

You can't lie about information you don't know.

He's just a schmuck trying to sell you extended warranties.. not a wikipedia of all things games.

Blame yourself and next time do your homework.

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1958Fury
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Heh, I ranted about this one in my blog back in November: NeverWinter Nights 2 - First Impressions

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1958Fury
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quote:
Originally posted by Not_Done_Living:
Blame yourself and next time do your homework.

To be fair, homework isn't always accurate. Myself, I used this "System Requirements" website before I bought NWN2, and my rig more than passed it.

One problem is that when the game companies list the minimum requirements, a lot of the time that just means, "yeah, it'll load." And it does. But there's no way the game could actually be considered fun running at this speed.

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Errata
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Sorry Morrigan. You did the right thing when you bought the computer by asking. The sales representative you talked to screwed you. Hopefully they'll be willing to make it right. Its a laptop so its not like you can just run out and buy a new video card. But if you intend to game with the laptop, you'll need to get it resolved, because the built in intel wont do. Good luck.

Getting all the right specs can be hard to keep track of, so its totally inexcusable for a salesperson to lie when asked a direct question (and yes its still a lie if they don't know but act like they do).

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lynnejanet
Happy Holly Days


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My son is having the same problem with NWNII. It's so frustrating!

I agree that you should go back to Best Buy, Morrigan. Let us know how it turns out.

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lynne"insert appropriate punny phrase here"janet

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Morrigan
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Astra-It's a Toshiba. A Toshiba Satellite Notebook, I believe. With Centrino Duo! (As if that makes a difference, right now.) Other than that, I'm going to have to dig the info out because I can't seem to find anything about it online.

Not Done Living-I say I was lied to. Now, if he had said "I don't know," and gone about it that way, that's one thing. But he assured me it would work. He acted as if he knew-as if he'd been asked that before. I could understand it if I had been told "I'm not sure, but it might." Or even "Maybe." But to just blatently say "yes, it will work"? So, yes, I do blame them for "lying."

Again, I'm not even sure what they can do. Hopefully at least teach their employee's not to directly lie to customers. I was going to come out with a computer either way, but I'm guessing that they figured "why not make a big sale." *sigh*

I will definately let everyone know how it turns out-for the better or worse.

My dad (computer of the family) is talking about ways we can make it work, like getting (I think) an external video card. Something like that. Not sure how any of that's going to turn out, though.

Morrigan

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"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep." Robert Frost, Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening

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Morrigan
Happy Holly Days


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Well, I just found out I bought a 1500 dollar POS.

It won't play any new games because of the video card. Any of them. And I was told that it would.

God I feel stupid.

Morrigan

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"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep." Robert Frost, Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening

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meanjelly
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Morrigan:
Errata-I bought my laptop specifically for gaming. It was supposedly designed for gaming. Payed 1500 dollars for a computer supposedly that I could play this game on. I bought this computer with NWN2 in mind. I asked the NFBSKing salesperson if it would play NWN2. Answered "yes." Basic machine? *snort* Yeah, right. The kind of memory and stuff that this LAPTOP has in it should suffice-which is also what I was told.

It's played everything else I've thrown at it. I expected it to play this.

And I'm not the only person who's had this problem with NWN2. Over at the Atari Forums, other's are complaining of the same problem.

Morrigan

I did the same thing for Ever Quest II. Turned out that while I had a Nvidia card the T&L layering was done by software. It pissed me off because I spent extra money on my laptop for the video card.

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Education... has produced a vast population able to read but unable to distinguish what is worth reading.
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Morrigan
Happy Holly Days


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Well, I've got a solution. My dad and I are going to build me a desktop PC. He's buying the laptop off of me.

But I'm still going to go complain to BB for lying to me.

Morrigan

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"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep." Robert Frost, Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening

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LittleDuck
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Morrigan, you may also consider letting the Better Business Bureau know.

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Rebochan the Retail Reindeer
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Couldn't you just swap out the video card? If it's an Intel, it's probably not a card at all, it's a graphics chip integrated into the motherboard and there should be a free spot in there for a video card still. Then again, my experience is more desktops than laptops and I don't use my lappy for gaming.

Best Buy did in fact rip you off, and you have the right to complain to them for a refund of the cost or for the laptop to be upgraded. However, did you check the game requirements *before* you bought the laptop or did you assume the sales clerk would know them? System requirements are very easy to find. They're even on the game box, and they're widely availible online. And I could even tell you without reading the box that Intel graphics chips are not supported because pretty much any game doesn't run them. So now you know that if you buy a computer with the intent of running a new game, check the requirements and don't trust the sales clerk to know. At Best Buy, he's probably just as clueless as you. While that doesn't excuse them for hiring idiots, you'd save yourself a lot of grief if you did a little research.

Know what's in your computer. Even if your folks build you a desktop, using crappy parts will not fix anything. For Neverwinter Nights, I looked up the official site's forums and found you this thread with card recommendations and rankings:

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=512861&forum=116&sp=0

Make sure one of those cards is in your new computer.

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"One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes

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Morrigan
Happy Holly Days


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When we build a computer, we don't use "crappy" parts. We use top of the line parts. Which is what we're going to put in the computer. We're not stupid when it comes to computers. But this is our (family's) first laptop, which is a bit different than a desktop. I don't appreciate being told (or insinuating) that I would build a desktop using "crappy" parts. The desktop my parent's have, they built it and they know what's in it. Exactly what's in it.

And, it's any NEW game doesn't run on the Intel. All of the games I have now do.

I'd already found that site, Rebochan.

The Intel chip is integrated on the motherboard. There is no spot for the videocard. No way to upgrade that.

How could I read the box when it wasn't out yet?

What get's me is that NO new games (Oblivion, Guild Wars NWN2 etc) will play on this computer. Because of the video card/chip. The sales rep should have known that because he told me it would play any new games.

Morrigan

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"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep." Robert Frost, Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening

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Morrigan
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Rebochan the Retail Reindeer:
At Best Buy, he's probably just as clueless as you. While that doesn't excuse them for hiring idiots, you'd save yourself a lot of grief if you did a little research.

Even if your folks build you a desktop, using crappy parts will not fix anything.

Make sure one of those cards is in your new computer.

I'm not "clueless" when it comes to computers. I know what I'm talking about. But because I made a mistake and listened to the sales rep (who I thought might know more about what I was looking for and what I needed) blatently lied to me.

My folks aren't building me a new computer. My father and I are. I assume he knows what he's doing, as he went to college for it, and has built them for the family countless times.

And, on that last line, no shit.

You're telling me old things, Rebochan.

I don't have a problem that the game won't play. I'm a little upset, but nothing more than that. I'm pissed beyond belief that a person in a position of authority blatantly lied to me about an expensive purchase.

Morrigan

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"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep." Robert Frost, Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening

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1958Fury
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I honestly don't think Rebochan meant to belittle your computer skills. We're all just trying to help here.

quote:
How could I read the box when it wasn't out yet?
And for the record, NWN2's system requirements were posted online well before it's release.

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Morrigan
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I'm just a little upset today.

I mentioned box because Rebochan mentioned box.

Like I said, I'm going in to BB tomorrow to get it straightened out. I'm going to build a desktop and play my game.

Morrigan

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"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep." Robert Frost, Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening

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Rebochan the Retail Reindeer
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Just new games? I have a lot of games that are a few years old that *may* run on an Intel chipset. If they did, it was at the bare minimum settings and with incredible lag. And certainly not *fun*. A "gaming laptop" would be expected to do better with that. Guild Wars is a recent title, but it's also pushing two years old. And I know that Intel chips didn't work in 2005, because they weren't working before that either.

I couldn't tell from your initial post what you were more upset about - and the thread title and OP implied that it was Atari's problem for not supporting "Intel cards" and the claim that it only supported two cards, which led me to believe that you were unfamiliar with purchasing computer hardware for gaming. You also mentioned you didn't look up the system requirements before buying the laptop - as 1958Fury pointed out, they were already online before the game came out. I wasn't scolding you, because it's still Best Buy's fault for lying. But knowing certain things in advance for purchasing a gaming computer (laptop or otherwise) saves a lot of headaches. Finally, my response said you could get requirements on the box or online, not just the box. I only brought it up because that's the easiest place to look (assuming the game is out).

I apologize for misinterpreting that you were taking part in helping build your next gaming PC.

That doesn't excuse Best Buy for lying to you, and they definitely owe you a new laptop (since you've clarified that there is no port on the motherboard). Good luck getting your money back from the crooks, and also good luck with your next desktop.

Since I noticed you were looking for Oblivion, here's a card chart for that one too. I think it may actually be more difficult to run properly than NWN2 and Oblivion has had 8 months to iron out its issues. The card I initially bought was, according to Bethesda, supported. Like many poor souls, I found out the hard way that it only fit the requirement of "Yea, it'll *load*...but nothing else."

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James G.
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Just a quick pointer to the current card market is the fact that the first DX10 cards are begining to make an appearence. These are still at the upper end of the market, and are probably out of your price range (They are out of most people's price range) however you may want to play at the lower end of your graphics card budget and upgrade in six-twelve months time.

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1958Fury
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quote:
Originally posted by meanjelly:
I did the same thing for Ever Quest II. Turned out that while I had a Nvidia card the T&L layering was done by software. It pissed me off because I spent extra money on my laptop for the video card.

I'm starting to wonder that's my problem as well. Mines, a desktop, though, so I might have an easier time fixing it if that's the problem. I've had this computer for about six months now, and I've found that there's a lot of things that it should be able to run, but doesn't (or at least not well). NWN 2 and Oblivion are good examples. Oddly, I'm even having a couple of problems with with NWN 1, particularly the toolset.

Anyway, mine came with a Nvidia card pre-installed, so I now I'm wondering if it's a software problem too. I'm not very tech-savvy, but I've opened the machine up, and there do seem to be some free slots. Also, when I tried updating the Nvidia driver a while back, I lost my ability to connect to the internet (thank doyc for system restore).

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I believe I'm growing skeptical of cynicism.
Myspace NWN Board

Posts: 917 | From: Nashville TN | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
trollface
The Bills of St. Mary's


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I have kind of the opposite problem. I've got an nVidia graphics card (GeForce MX4), and half the games I've got don't play on that because it doesn't support pixel shading. I've tried using 3D Analyzer, which is supposed to replicate it, but that just makes half the games not load at all.

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seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears.

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1958Fury
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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When I used that systemrequirementslab.com site, this is the readout I got. NWN2 runs, but very slowly, even if I turn the settings down so much that it looks like a PS1 game:


CPU
Minimum: Pentium 4/Athlon XP or better
You Have: 2 processors running - AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 3800+
PASS

CPU Speed
Minimum: 2 GHz
You Have: 2.00 GHz Performance Rated at 5.70 GHz
PASS

System RAM
Minimum: 512 MB
You Have: 1.9 GB
PASS

Operating System
Minimum: Windows XP
You Have: Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
PASS

Video Card
Minimum: 128MB Direct3D compatible video card with DirectX 9.0c compatible driver (NVIDIA GeForce FX 5500+ / ATI Radeon 9500+)
You Have: NVIDIA GeForce 6100 (GeForce 6100)
PASS

Video Card Features - Minimum attributes of your Video Card
Video RAM: Required - 128 MB , You have - 256.0 MB
Video Card 3D Acceleration: Required - Yes , You have - Yes
Video HW Transform & Lighting: Required - Yes , You have - Yes
Vertex Shader Ver.: Required - 2.0 , You have - 3.0
Pixel Shader Ver.: Required - 2.0 , You have - 3.0

Video Card Driver Version (DirectX)
Your driver version number is: 6.14.10.8133
FYI: Make sure you have the latest driver for your video card. Click 'Free Driver Update' and we'll direct you to your video card manufacturer.
DirectX Version
Minimum: DirectX 9.0c (included)
You Have: 9.0c
PASS

Sound Card
Minimum: Yes
You Have: Realtek AC'97 Audio
PASS

Sound Card Driver Version
Your driver version number is: 5.10.0.5900
FYI: Your sound card driver version is provided for your information, but it is not part of this analysis. But proper sound card driver versions are important to the proper operation of your product.

Free Disk Space
Minimum: 4.6 GB
You Have: 190.3 GB
PASS

DVD
Minimum: Yes
You Have: LITE-ON DVDRW SHW-160P6S
PASS, but the Speed could NOT be analyzed.

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I believe I'm growing skeptical of cynicism.
Myspace NWN Board

Posts: 917 | From: Nashville TN | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Rob D / Blackwolf, the yule dodo
Deck the Malls


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Trollface, I'm afraid but a Geforce MX is simply obsolete. For games like Oblivion and NWN even a Geforce 4 series card is too weak.
I had a GeForce 4 TI and had to upgrade to a GeForce 6600 for Oblivion.

1958Fury... Welcome to NWN 2. This game is an equal opportunity game, it's laggy and slow no matter what system you have. In other words. You have a better CPU and more RAM, I have a somewhat better graphiccard, but I can let the settings run on medium.
Also the Slots you have seen, have most likely been PCI slots. Those are for network cards, soundcards, extra USB cards, TV Cards. Graphic Cards run on either AGP (brown) slots, usually on the top or the newer PCI-E (dunno the color).
When you update the driver its recommended to deinstall the old ones first.

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~Reality, the refuge of those who fail in RPGs~
aka Darkfist Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-

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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I couldn't play the first NeverWinter Nights because it was apparently incompatible with my graphics driver. (It worked fine in the training level, but froze during the loading screen when you tried to leave the first area to start the game proper - I don't see quite how that was graphics driver related, but apparently it was a common problem that they weren't going to patch because it wasn't "their" problem, and the discussion boards blamed the graphics driver - rather than the card, which should have been easily up to it.)

Trying to upgrade the graphics driver just messed up my PC altogether, and I had to reinstall the OS, and since NWN was the only game that ever gave a problem I just forgot about it.

I was hoping to try it again when I get a new PC, and perhaps get the sequel, but maybe I won't bother.

Posts: 8725 | From: Ipswich - the UK's 9th Best Place to Sleep! | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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