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Author Topic: "The Real World" (Long)
Jaime Vargas Sanchez
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by qualli:
I don't have the money or experience to build my home now, but that's not the point. I made the decision to chose the monetarily low paying job because it does wonders for me mentally and spiritually (not to mention my herb apprenticeship).

Yes, that is the point. You don't have it now, and you won't have it in a year. I suppose you're planning to get a bank loan. If you are not, start thinking again. If you are, you should be aware that, given that yours is a highly risky and unconventional project, your bank is going to need damn good guarantees; and you have nothing to offer. So it's only right that your mother is adamant about wanting to hear a realistic plan since eventually she just knows she will be the one putting her assets on the line for you to get the loan. And if it gets dirty later, guess how beneficial (mentally and spiritually) your low paying job will be then.

Jaime

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"Everyone has problems. They only vary in design" - Mama Duck

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beaver_slayer
Deck the Malls


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ASL

quote:
I have a dream, that one day, when my time in the Navy is done, I'll find a nice warm street corner in Texas and live there for a few months while I figure out what the hell I'm going to do with a math degree. I don't tell my parents that one for obvious reasons. I think I'd like to work as a cashier in a record store or some such thing.
I'm aware of the fact that internet caused adwise deflation, but I will still give one. Assuming that you are reasonably good at math (say, you aced a couple of 4th year courses) and math is something you don't hate I suggest you go for grad school. M.Sc. is still worth something. Even though I have heard enough complaints from mathematicians that few people are willing to employ them there are quite a few options awailable.

1. Actuarian
2. Statistician
3. (probably, most lucrative) MMF - Master of Mathematical Finance

From among my UofT stats/biostats class, all the people I know (including myself) landed a 40K+ jobs as first jobs. People are hiring and math is still in the loop.

However, most employers would really love their analysts to be familiar with more or less standard programming techniques. I'm unaware of how comfortable you'd feel coding in Matlab, but my suggestion would be to move towards more of a small-time tech support/programming job - just to gain some familiarity. A perfect option from the grad perspective would be to work as a research assistant for some of the profs - it is possible to find a space around on campus, although the pay would be low and hours would be long. However, this typically looks good on grad school application. And don't be discouraged if you don't find one - a friend of mine is doing his MMF after hawing a 2-year gap in his education while he had a very menial job. College profs can look past quite a few things on students applications if they feel the person is mature enough.

In case you don't think that the grad school is right for you I would also recommend thinking along the lines "OK, so now I need a real job, so where can a degree in math give me a relative adwantage?" It is not uncommon that people get promoted not because they have the best primary skill, but because of their superior secondary skills.

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LolaRennt
The First USA Noel


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A year to save up the money needed to pay for the construction of a house, the services of a structural engineer, and the purchase of land? And you have a low paying job?

Your mother's response may not have been extremely helpful but she does have a point. Even if you save every penny you earn, a year is not a realistic goal.

And how do you expect to maintain the house? Are you planning not to carry insurance? Are you planning not to pay property taxes? Do you even have a realistic estimate of what the taxes would be?

Are you planning to pay cash for the land and the construction? Or are you going to get a loan? Have you taken into consideration the fact that getting a loan with a low paying job is going to be challenging and you'll probably have to pay higher interest?


You mention that this is family land. Are you expecting to be able to pay considerably less than fair market value? If so, have you consulted a CPA to learn the tax consequences to both you and the family member who owns the land? Has someone with tax expertise helped you plan this transaction? And can you afford to pay someone to do this (please don't go to H&R Block).

How do you expect to keep your property? Does your job allow you to take home enough money to pay taxes and insurance on a home and pay all of your living expenses? It would be a shame to build this house and then lose it because you can't afford to pay taxes on it.

And the comment about 9 to 5 jobs just shows a great deal of immaturity. Never make the assumption that just because something does not fit in with your world view that it is a thing to be hated. Some of us LIKE our 9 to 5 jobs.

Lola "9 to 5 and proud of it" Rennt

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dawnda
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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quote:
Originally posted by LolaRennt:
A year to save up the money needed to pay for the construction of a house, the services of a structural engineer, and the purchase of land? And you have a low paying job?

Another expense of purchasing such land that I see my stepdad's company do all the time: you will need money not just to buy the land, regardless of whether at fair market value or family discount, but also for a perk test, required before you can even zone it for residential, determine what zoning type it is (residential/agriculture/industrial/other), any improvements--roads that you as property owner have to build if it isn't on a road, gas/electric/water, and anything else to bring it up to local code regs, surveying for starters. These are paid by the owner, not the local govt., & these can add up to tens of thousands.

For financial security, does the job you plan to do this with even allow you to pay mom rent & boarding expenses? If not, that is not financially secure.

The opinions of older people may not be 'worth more', but they certainly hold more experience. And I'm willing to bet quite a few of us have been in the same place, living at home after school or military. In my case, getting out of my mom's home was more important to my mental health than any of the jobs I held at the time.

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Behind every good man there is a good woman and behind that another
man looking at her rear end.

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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by qualli:
Wow, I'm the subject of a bookachow. Cool!

Pogue- the very big word here is "eventualy". I know I don't have the money or experience to build my home now, but that's not the point. I made the decision to chose the monetarily low paying job because it does wonders for me mentally and spiritually (not to mention my herb apprenticeship). My lifestyle at the moment doesn't require me to work at Taco Hell. In January I'll also begin volunteering at a local museum in order to make getting a required summer internship earlier this summer.

She skipped over the "eventually" part and simply dismissed it out of hand.

As for building a cob house in NC. I'm lucky in the fact that the family land has lots of clay, and a couple ponds have already been made, so a small personal pond will provide enough earth for a small house. You really just have to be willing to sacrifice some of the more modern complications. Construct the house to use natural air conditioning and heat, make it very open, you'd be surprised what can be done when you're willing to "front only the essential facts of life"

I think part of what the naysayers, including myself, are seeing is that you don't seem to be fronting even the essential facts of life. Your life style doesn't require you to work fast food to pay for a skeevy apartment because your family supports you. Sure it's depressing to work in a life sucking hell hole, but most of us have to do that for at least some time in our lives in order to front those essentials and to keep the heat on in those skeevy apartments that you're too good for.

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I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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ChelleGame
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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I don't believe there's a clear right or wrong here -- more like an unclear "it depends."

Sometimes parents do aim too low for their kids and discourage dreams. Sometimes it's just out of fear of the pain their children will feel if they fail.

Sometimes parents see their kids clearly, and really do know that they can't make their dream a reality. In the words of Beauty School Drop-out, they "have the dream, but not the drive."

If the dream is strong enough, and the drive is there, then the dream will more than likely come to pass -- the OP will make it happen, and living well will be the best revenge/I-Told-You-So.

I write, but I'm notoriously bad at setting a realistic schedule, and so I don't do as well as I could. I don't dream about a lot of writing accolades, because I'm not really putting in the needed work. On the other hand, I'm sure there were a lot of people that never thought I would get published either. You can't let others kill your dreams, but goals are better than dreams, as it implies being willing to put in the work, and an actual plan of action.

There are a lot of things people would choose if it was a matter of waving a magic wand, and sometimes good things do fall in our laps, but the desires most likely to become realities are the onces that we actively pursue.

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Michelle

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Astra
The "Was on Sale" Song


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Christie and BeachLife:

It wasn't my judgment that she WAS mooching at all. I was just trying to offer an alternative perspective as to how her mother might be viewing things. I think the two of them need to sit down and talk about their arrangement and exactly who is obligated to provide what and a timeline for their future plans.

I'm actually in a similar boat as you both are (well, as your kids are) - my parents have insisted on subsidizing me until I graduate college. It does make things a lot easier, but I don't want to rely on them for too much. Of course, we're working for a common goal - for me to graduate with everything in order and a job lined up so I can take off and be pretty self-sufficient. In Qualli's case, it doesn't sound like she and her mother have the same goals in mind.

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This has been yet another... USELESS POST.

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DevilBunny
Deck the Malls


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My parents still constantly tell me that I don't live 'in the real world'.

I have a high-paying job, a house, a mortgage, I've been married... what more do I need for the entry requirements? [Smile]

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"For God has seven thousand names, and one of them is bastard"

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christmas tree kitapper
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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I worked Taco Bell for 9 years, and got used to people telling me to "just wait until I got a real job". Yes. Taco Bell shift manager isn't a real job. Who knew?

I don't actually, personally, have a lot of drive and ambition which is probably why I'm a Night Auditor and like doing it.

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"I have never in my life been more disappointed by a politician I voted for than I have been with George Bush. He is a total liberal."- overheard by me on the shuttle to the U of A game on Nov. 11th.

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Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by DevilBunny:
My parents still constantly tell me that I don't live 'in the real world'.

I have a high-paying job, a house, a mortgage, I've been married... what more do I need for the entry requirements? [Smile]

When you stop enjoying life and it becomes nothing more than a daily grind?

Different people have different ideas of what the "real world" is. Your parents may have a rather sad definition.

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

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SoToasty
Flock to malls with boughs of cash


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quote:
Originally posted by DevilBunny:
My parents still constantly tell me that I don't live 'in the real world'.

I have a high-paying job, a house, a mortgage, I've been married... what more do I need for the entry requirements? [Smile]

2.4 Kids?

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Wherever ya go, there ya are.

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Barbara
Layaway in a Manger


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quote:
Originally posted by DevilBunny:
My parents still constantly tell me that I don't live 'in the real world'.

I have a high-paying job, a house, a mortgage, I've been married... what more do I need for the entry requirements? [Smile]

Misery.
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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Astra:
Christie and BeachLife:

It wasn't my judgment that she WAS mooching at all. I was just trying to offer an alternative perspective as to how her mother might be viewing things. I think the two of them need to sit down and talk about their arrangement and exactly who is obligated to provide what and a timeline for their future plans.

I'm actually in a similar boat as you both are (well, as your kids are) - my parents have insisted on subsidizing me until I graduate college. It does make things a lot easier, but I don't want to rely on them for too much. Of course, we're working for a common goal - for me to graduate with everything in order and a job lined up so I can take off and be pretty self-sufficient. In Qualli's case, it doesn't sound like she and her mother have the same goals in mind.

I'm sorry if I sounded like I was arguing with you! I thought your point was well taken and I agree. From my perspective Qualli's mother probably shouldn't have said anything - maybe internally rolled her eyes and changed the conversation as one does when people are talking about what they will do when they "wins the big one" - but otherwise let it go.

I suspect as others do, that the reason she may be speaking out is because she does resent supporting a girl who is only minimally contributing to her own expenses and talks about saving out of that minimal amount of money for some unlikely future goal. But who in the meantime is happy to have mom footing most of her day to day expenses while reserving the right to be critical of dear old mom.

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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Michigan Girl
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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I think it is important to have a dream, and someone else just shooting it down can really hurt. But there are dreams and there are "dreams". My "dream" is to be a lawyer and help others because I haven't had a lot of help. But I don't think that's obtainable for me. My dream is to graduate college, and I am working on my goals to start community college. My kids talk about what they want to be when they grow up (my 12 yo ds wants to get into robotics or game engineering, my 10 yo dd wants to be a teacher and a scientist). I talk to them about how they can obtain that goal. Getting decent grades is a start, even if the grades in grade school won't matter later, it will give them good habits.

Instead of just shooting it down, I would tell the person to write down what they need to get to their goal, and how they are going to do it. For example, how much $ they would need for the land. How long would it take them to save for it, etc.

There have all been valid points made here, this is just my 2 cents. YMMV.

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~ Yep, I'm in Michigan ~ My blog http://catsrule2k.blogspot.com/
I am not willing to give up my constitutional freedoms just because I have nothing to hide

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qualli
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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wow, step out for a day or two and I miss a lot.

A little more about my situation: The land is family land currently not being used (well, the deer are using it). I'll be paying a monthly rent to my grandmother, who still owns the land. Baisicly, what she would have been making by having the land as field. So technicly would I own the property? No. I'd be more or less getting my inheritance early. My parents got their house and land for the sum total of $1.

As for the actual construction, the big costs are structural engineer and permits. All the building will be done by my onesies (...well except for the occasional mud n' grub work-for-your-dinner deals) And I'm fortunate in knowing plumbers and electricians who are licensed and family. It's a two room house (well three for coutning the bathroom) built of mud. It's not rocket science... in fact I think the most complicated piece of machinery I have to use on a daily basis is a wheelbarrow.

As for "mooching" (I can't even remember if that word was used) I don't mooch. I put in my fair share.

anyway, that's all beside the point, and not of General Interest.

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"I still say Obi-wan Kenobi was The Force's bitch."

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glass papaya
Jingle Bell Hock


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qualli, I feel compelled for some reason to point out your sense of entitlement that comes through in your posts.

You feel entitled to your Grandmother's land. I don't think it hits you that she would in fact be subsidizing your plans. It is immaterial whether your Grandmother does this for everyone in your family or not, you don't seem to understand or appreciate how much this will save you, you just think it's your due.

You also feel entitled to the labor of your electrician and plumber family members. Again, whether they are willing to do this for you is beside the point. It will save you a lot of money. They will also subsidize your chosen lifestyle.

I'm neither praising nor denigrating your plans. I'm just pointing out that your chosen lifestyle does depend on the assests and abilities of others to a large degree, and I'm not convinced you fully realize that.

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qualli
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Glass Papaya - entitlement? No actually, it's called family. I didn't assume I would get the land, I didn't assume my family would help. I'm grateful for the land, the help, and the family. Just because I use the opportuinities I'm given doesn't mean I don't appreciate them.

Believe me. I'm fully aware my ass would be out on the street without my family. (well I certainly wouldn't be at college, or living comfortably)

Living on my grandmother's land allows me to stay near my family, and help them when they need it. As my parents and grandmother (as well as severl other relatives who share the farm) grow older, I'm sure it will make a big difference knowing one of their kids is close.

I'm sorry if I've come off in these posts as entitled, hair brianed, or any other number of other things, but I guess I just didn't consider how odd our living arrangements really are (something my mother does understand, ..which is what inspired the first post all together)

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"I still say Obi-wan Kenobi was The Force's bitch."

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beaver_slayer
Deck the Malls


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Well, may I dream with you?

1. Get a promotion. No, really, I could use a few extra bucks, I know what I know, I know what I do and I know the people I work with. I think this is pretty realistic.

2. Get to a managerial level position. This one would be trickier, but I still believe that eventually it is possible to do.

3. Marry That One Special Girl. I nearly pulled this one once before and I hope that I'm not that hopeless (especially after I took some time off and went back home to meet my peers). I think it is eventually possible if I spend enough time in the gym and socializing.

4. Pay off my mortgage. No small task indeed, but I also hope this goes more along the lines of "eventually" rather than the other way around.

5. Become an American. Damn, guys, your attitude is good and useful and I learn a lot, but this is no small task and I'm not sure if I'll be able to think the way you do.

6. Get to a director level position. I still think it is possible, but this is gonna be very, very hard and long way ahead.

7. Do Ph.D., do something useful and be employed as a director or a big guy. I have some ideas, but at the moment I certainly lack the drive to execute them. Let's talk about this in a couple of years, I still have a lot of Real Life to learn, not counting my job experience.

8. Own my company. This one is unrealistic as at the moment I lack what it takes to start one, and I'm sceptic about my abilities to change that much.

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Eve MG
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Barbara:
quote:
Originally posted by DevilBunny:
My parents still constantly tell me that I don't live 'in the real world'.

I have a high-paying job, a house, a mortgage, I've been married... what more do I need for the entry requirements? [Smile]

Misery.
She said she has been married.

I'll get it... [fish]

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I love dairy! Does that mean I can't be a vegan?

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Arrow-Tech IV
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by qualli:
Glass Papaya - entitlement? No actually, it's called family. I didn't assume I would get the land, I didn't assume my family would help. I'm grateful for the land, the help, and the family. Just because I use the opportuinities I'm given doesn't mean I don't appreciate them.

Qualli -- I think that your tone in your posts is fine, and I do understand your frustration with the "not living in the real world" comment that your mother made.

However (and isn't there always a "however" [Roll Eyes] ), my perspective is still an attempt to understand where your mother is coming from. Your mother understands your situation. As you said, "I guess I just didn't consider how odd our living arrangements really are (something my mother does understand, ..which is what inspired the first post all together)". So, when she remarks that you aren't living in the "real world," but she fully understands your situation, I assume that she is resentful in some fashion of these plans that you seem to think make so much sense.

What could she be resentful of? The job you have doesn't pay much and you are quite comfortable in her house, with her providing for your expenses.

I might be mistaken in this. Are you paying for your room and board? If not, that's probably why she is irritated.

So, I've offered my own assessment of your mother's point-of-view. Now, on to the house. To my understanding, just about every level of house building requires permits, most of which cost money.

Even if you have relatives willing to do tons of unpaid work, you still have other expenses. You need the land to be zoned correctly, you need a solid -- and inspected -- foundation, you need to pay an inspector the required fees each time he/she comes out.

I've known several people who have served as their own contractors on houses and, even when they were trying to conserve money, the houses ended up going more than one-third over budget because of unforseeable situations (weather, two service people getting in each other's way and the same job needing to be done twice, the cost of certain materials skyrocketing, permits that expire after a certain number of days and their fees being absorbed, etc.).

Because of all of these factors, I've never known a house (with a solid foundation) to go up for less than ninety thousand -- and I live in one of the best real estate markets in the country in terms of affordability.

So, basically, unless you have a lot of money socked away (at least $10,000 to start), or can qualify for a loan, I just don't see how you can afford a house.

Okay, on to the next point: Family. Family has a lot of meaning to me too. I'm loyal and would sacrifice almost anything for my extended family members. They, in turn, help my nuclear family every day. My mother supports me with my infant son and my in-laws actually loaned my husband the money for our mortgage.

However (and it's obvious that was coming! [Smile] ), we're very businesslike about the arrangement. The payment we make every month includes enough interest to help support them (my in-laws) and we NEVER run late. We don't ever have to talk about or discuss payments because there is never a problem. We help them and, conversely, they help us. It's a win:win.

My mother, who is somewhat prone to depression and hoarding, helps us with my son. Thus, she is invited to dinner even more frequently than I might invite her otherwise and I work with her on the house. My husband recently completely revamped my mother's computer, putting in a new hard drive and floppy drive and he's going to add a CD burner this next week. When she has a dead mouse in the house, we dispose of it. When she needs to leave town to see my father, we take care of her animals. She gets a lot of help, basically, when she even hints that something is wrong.

quote:
Originally posted by qualli:
Believe me. I'm fully aware my ass would be out on the street without my family. (well I certainly wouldn't be at college, or living comfortably)

Living on my grandmother's land allows me to stay near my family, and help them when they need it. As my parents and grandmother (as well as severl other relatives who share the farm) grow older, I'm sure it will make a big difference knowing one of their kids is close.

And you might really come through for your family...or you might just be a drain on them. It's hard to tell at this point from my outsider's perspective. I've known plenty of people who moved into a family member's house or onto their land in order to avoid the "real world" we've discussed so much here. You might consider that your family might not be able to tell either. They don't know where you're going to end up. Since you currently have a low-paying job and you're unwilling to sacrifice yourself on the fast food altar for a higher salary, they might not see what you're willing to sacrifice for them.
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Rebochan the Retail Reindeer
Good King Wal-Mart


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Qualli, if you're curious about hostility received from this thread, you might want to consider your attitudes to those dreaded 9 to 5 jobs. Many people have them for a variety of reasons. Some of them include liking said jobs. Some of them are simply there to pay the bills until the dream job comes by. But the attitude I gathered from the first post was one of superiority - "I have a job I love, therefore, I'm so much better than you." If that's not how you intended to present yourself, then it's worth mending that impression so you're own circumstances are easier to understand. Those "real world" comments are going to go away too.

On a side note: this is the first I've heard of Cob housing. I did a little research on it, but I'm still curious - can you still run electricity through them?

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"One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings." -- Diogenes

"Vote Republican! We won't burn you at the stake for your religious beliefs or slaughter your family and steal your land." -- Ramblin' Dave

Posts: 3555 | From: Florida | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
qualli
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Re: Cob Houses

yep. A very popular way to get electricity and other wiring is to build pvc pipes into the walls to act as conduits. some cob houses have lifted floors as well, allowing wiring to be run under the floor. Almost any detail in a traditional house can be translated to cob work.

Re: 9-5 jobs. I'm sorry it seems I have an attitude about 9-5 jobs. People who work 9-5 jobs are amazing in my opinion. I've applied for them, and would have worked (well not happily, but worked) them if that had been my lot. As it tuns out I work at a minimum wage job I love, getting a few extra bucks from commisioned work.

Re: Ducks.

they're behind you!

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"I still say Obi-wan Kenobi was The Force's bitch."

Posts: 820 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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