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Author Topic: Why can't conservatives connect the dots?
Cowboy Joe
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Fox argues for expanison of the use of profanity.

quote:

Carter Phillips, a Washington attorney for Fox, repeatedly quoted the disputed language in open court, including Cher's remark that "people have been telling me I'm on the way out every year, right? So f--- 'em," and Richie's statement, "Have you ever tried to get cow s--- out of a Prada purse? It's not so f---ing easy."

Phillips told the three-judge panel that the FCC had approved the use of those precise words in a broadcast of the film "Saving Private Ryan," a distinction that left broadcasters in the unfair position of guessing when the words were appropriate and when they were not.

quote:

Why do conservatives, who claim to support good, clean family entertainment, and who support Fox news as the voice of all that is good and pure in our nation, not understand that this is the same corporation who is actively working to make prime time obscenity more accessible? It is no secret that Fox has regularly produced some of the most outrageous crap in TV history. All the money finds its way in Murdoch's greedy little fist in the end.

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"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." -George W. Bush, Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005

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Purple Iguana
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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What happened to just not watching the show/channel you have a dispute with? If Fox wants to allow a bunch of profane language, change the channel.

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snapdragonfly
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Iguana:
What happened to just not watching the show/channel you have a dispute with? If Fox wants to allow a bunch of profane language, change the channel.

Not to speak for CJ, but I think the point isn't being able to change the channel or not, but rather the hypocracy of Teh Noble and Patriotic Bullhorn of All That Is Decent And Good In America (tm) otherwise known as Fox News, which on one side of it's mouth spouts drivel about family values blah blah blah, and on the other hand wants to be allowed profanity for no purpose other than profanities sake.

I see a huge difference between broadcasting Saving Private Ryan in it's entirety and some bimbette celebrity who can't figure out a better way to express herself than using blue language, but I wouldn't expect any sort of integrity from Fox anyway. If it were possible for me to think less of it, I would, but that's not possible at this point for me anyway.

--------------------
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(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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keokuk
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I should probably let an actual conservative answer rather than presuming to speak for them, but I'd imagine that the answer is that they do connect the dots but think that they're choosing the lesser of available evils.
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snapdragonfly
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quote:
Originally posted by keokuk:
I should probably let an actual conservative answer rather than presuming to speak for them, but I'd imagine that the answer is that they do connect the dots but think that they're choosing the lesser of available evils.

Lesser of which two evils? (not to be snarky - I just want to be sure I understand you)

--------------------
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(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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keokuk
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quote:
Originally posted by snapdragonfly:
quote:
Originally posted by keokuk:
I should probably let an actual conservative answer rather than presuming to speak for them, but I'd imagine that the answer is that they do connect the dots but think that they're choosing the lesser of available evils.

Lesser of which two evils? (not to be snarky - I just want to be sure I understand you)
I probably should have elaborated a little more. If they want to watch cable news, they'll have to get it from some network owned by some media corporation that also produces something they find offensive. So they might as well just figure, "Screw it, if I have to choose, I'll watch the one I agree with the most."
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First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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Hey, it's either be a Conservative, and be hypocritical about "family values," or be a Liberal, and be hypocritical about everything else. [lol]

But seriously, false dilemma, anyone? Don't recall "family values" as ever having included being free from profane speech. Don't see any statements from FOX about the profanity in "Private Ryan" being BAD Don't see any statements from FOX about profanity, period.

Either profanity is bad or it isn't. Either they're transmissible in both contexts, or in neither.

Thought Libs were big on equality and fairness. Or was that only when you like what they're saying?

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snapdragonfly
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quote:
Originally posted by First of Two:
But seriously, false dilemma, anyone? Don't recall "family values" as ever having included being free from profane speech.


Not according to every single email I get from American Family Association. (I don't know HOW they got my email, if they only knew) And myriad other "family values" type groups I know. Profanity is in fact a huge issue with them.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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quote:
Originally posted by snapdragonfly:
some bimbette celebrity who can't figure out a better way to express herself than using blue language [snipped for brevity]

Maybe she used that strong language because it matched her strong feelings about the subject. Just because someone uses profanity doesn't mean they can't express themselves. There are some times when "go away" is appropriate and there are some times when "F*$% off" is appropriate.

And why is Cher cursing an example of her not being able to express herself and the cursing in Private Ryan not an example of the screenwriter not being able to express himself?

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by snapdragonfly:
quote:
Originally posted by First of Two:
But seriously, false dilemma, anyone? Don't recall "family values" as ever having included being free from profane speech.


Not according to every single email I get from American Family Association. (I don't know HOW they got my email, if they only knew) And myriad other "family values" type groups I know. Profanity is in fact a huge issue with them.
Now, we're not confusing the letters "AFA" with the letters "FOX," are we? The AFA certainly wrote nasty letters about FOX back in the "Married With Children" days...

Two. Different. Groups.

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Rhiandmoi
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I don't think it is confusing when the words are acceptable or when they aren't. Sometimes historically important movies such as Saving Private Ryan are broadcast unedited because they are special things. And their graphic scenes and language are part of the emotional context of the movie and to edit them would lessen the quality of the movie. It is not a gratuitous usage of swear words.

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snapdragonfly
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quote:
Originally posted by First of Two:
quote:
Originally posted by snapdragonfly:
quote:
Originally posted by First of Two:
But seriously, false dilemma, anyone? Don't recall "family values" as ever having included being free from profane speech.


Not according to every single email I get from American Family Association. (I don't know HOW they got my email, if they only knew) And myriad other "family values" type groups I know. Profanity is in fact a huge issue with them.
Now, we're not confusing the letters "AFA" with the letters "FOX," are we? The AFA certainly wrote nasty letters about FOX back in the "Married With Children" days...

Two. Different. Groups.

But both are conservative and you guys all look alike. [fish]

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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snapdragonfly
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quote:
Originally posted by Rhiandmoi:
I don't think it is confusing when the words are acceptable or when they aren't. Sometimes historically important movies such as Saving Private Ryan are broadcast unedited because they are special things. And their graphic scenes and language are part of the emotional context of the movie and to edit them would lessen the quality of the movie. It is not a gratuitous usage of swear words.

I agree.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Purple Iguana
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by snapdragonfly:
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Iguana:
What happened to just not watching the show/channel you have a dispute with? If Fox wants to allow a bunch of profane language, change the channel.

Not to speak for CJ, but I think the point isn't being able to change the channel or not, but rather the hypocracy of Teh Noble and Patriotic Bullhorn of All That Is Decent And Good In America (tm) otherwise known as Fox News, which on one side of it's mouth spouts drivel about family values blah blah blah, and on the other hand wants to be allowed profanity for no purpose other than profanities sake.

Duh. I see that now. This head cold is really hitting me. [Frown]

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MG123
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quote:
Originally posted by keokuk:
I should probably let an actual conservative answer rather than presuming to speak for them, but I'd imagine that the answer is that they do connect the dots but think that they're choosing the lesser of available evils.

Absolutely right.
The reason we support Fox news, is that they give you all of the news, not just what they want you to hear, like the rest of the liberal media.
Granted, they're not perfect, but compared to the other bleeding hearts, they're the best we've got.

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Christie
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quote:
Originally posted by MG123:
quote:
Originally posted by keokuk:
I should probably let an actual conservative answer rather than presuming to speak for them, but I'd imagine that the answer is that they do connect the dots but think that they're choosing the lesser of available evils.

Absolutely right.
The reason we support Fox news, is that they give you all of the news, not just what they want you to hear, like the rest of the liberal media.
Granted, they're not perfect, but compared to the other bleeding hearts, they're the best we've got.

[Confused] ..."the rest of the liberal media"? Ok.

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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snapdragonfly
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quote:
Originally posted by MG123:
quote:
Originally posted by keokuk:
I should probably let an actual conservative answer rather than presuming to speak for them, but I'd imagine that the answer is that they do connect the dots but think that they're choosing the lesser of available evils.

Absolutely right.
The reason we support Fox news, is that they give you all of the news, not just what they want you to hear, like the rest of the liberal media.
Granted, they're not perfect, but compared to the other bleeding hearts, they're the best we've got.

*laughs heartily*

riiiight.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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keokuk
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quote:
Originally posted by MG123:

The reason we support Fox news, is that they give you all of the news, not just what they want you to hear, like the rest of the liberal media.
Granted, they're not perfect, but compared to the other bleeding hearts, they're the best we've got.

What news is being covered on Fox News that is not being covered anywhere else? I'm not talking about viewpoints or opinions and their proportion on Fox News compared to other networks, but actual news being reported.

Every day, I read the Washington Post and New York Times. The only TV news I watch is NewsHour with Jim Lehrer on PBS. I read the Wall Street Journal a couple of times a week. Those four sources are probably where I get about 95% of my news information. I don't even know what channel any of the cable news networks are on my system. So given that you say Fox News gives "all the news" as opposed to the rest of the "liberal media," could you tell me what important news stories I'm missing due to my choice of media sources?

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Simply Madeline
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According to this study, Fox News viewers are more likely to be misinformed than those who get their news from other sources.
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Signora Del Drago
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I don't watch Fox News very often, but the first few times I heard the phrase, "News at the speed of live," I thought they were saying "News at the speed of lies." No joke. If you aren't listening very closely it does sound like that. [lol]

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"This air we're breathing. Oxygen, isn't it?"~I’mNotDedalus, impersonating Vincent D’Onofrio.|"Sometimes trying to communicate can be like walking through a minefield."~wanderwoman
"Give people a break. It's not easy doing a life."~Joshua Halberstam

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Errata
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Simply Madeline, too bad they didn't include "Comedy Central". I bet that would be higher than Fox and CBS too [Wink]
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Simply Madeline
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More interesting data, from this CNN story:

quote:

"Daily Show" viewers are 78 percent more likely than the average adult to have four or more years of college education, while O'Reilly's audience is only 24 percent more likely to have that much schooling.

Plus, the network noted, "Daily Show" viewers are 26 percent more likely to have a household income more than $100,000, while O'Reilly's audience is only 11 percent more likely to make that much money.


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LeaflessMapleTree
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quote:
Originally posted by Simply Madeline:
According to this study, Fox News viewers are more likely to be misinformed than those who get their news from other sources.

Musta been a liberal who did that study. Poor guy needs surgery, too. Something about a bleeding heart [Confused]
quote:
Plus, the network noted, "Daily Show" viewers are 26 percent more likely to have a household income more than $100,000, while O'Reilly's audience is only 11 percent more likely to make that much money.
Well duh! It's all those "handouts" they're getting from big government!

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Zachary Fizz
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quote:
Originally posted by First of Two:

Either profanity is bad or it isn't. Either they're transmissible in both contexts, or in neither.


This seems inconsistent with your thoughts on torture, First. I seem to recall you putting a lot of emphasis on context there.

I'm not sure that I could see your actual position on profanity in amongst the liberal-bashing in your post. Just for the record,
would you say that Fox should be supported in their attempts to increase profanity, or not?

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Archie2K
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The marriage between family values social conservatives and libertarian economic conservatives is a pretty strange one. Yes you can accuse all conservatives of being hypocritical, but wait until you speak to an individual conservative and see if their views are considered inherently incompatible. For the record, I'm not terribly bothered by profanity. It exists. Let it be shown on TV (after 9 or 10 say) and let the market decide. I don't want to watch swearing for the sake of swearing, I'll turn off any show that features it.

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Vox populi vox canem

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Cowboy Joe
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Sorry to start something and then walk away. My point was exactly what snapdragonfly said: How is it a person can't bitvch and moan about profanity and its "destrictive" effect on society, and then fall down and worship the same company based upon its news "content"?

It's a little like me starting a campaign agains Big Macs because they are full of nasty things for the human body, but continuing to eat the Quarter Pounder because it is yummy. It is the inconsistency that floors me.

Which network was it that was going to air the OJ confession? The same one that started "Married with Children", The Simpsions and other shows that were suppossed to ruin society. Why the big turnaround?

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nicky
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Archie 2K is quite right. "Conservative" as used today in the US doesnt refer to any coherent political ideology, it is a label for a loose alliance of different, and quite contradictory, political factions who have ended up in bed together as part of a two party system.
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Cowboy Joe
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quote:
Originally posted by nicky:
Archie 2K is quite right. "Conservative" as used today in the US doesnt refer to any coherent political ideology, it is a label for a loose alliance of different, and quite contradictory, political factions who have ended up in bed together as part of a two party system.

I disagree. While few might agree with every point associated with conservative politics, those who agree with a preponderance of those issues can rightly be considered to be conservatives. This is more than just a construct of the "liberal" media.

And BTW, I speak to plenty of conservatives. Where I live, most people would describe themselves as conservative. I have listened to these folks talk about how movies today are so much worse than they were 20 years ago because what would have been rated R now passes for PG-13. This assessment is false, of course, but this is often used as evidence that the entertainment industry is anti-family. These are usually the same people who thin Fox really is fair and balanced.

So my question still remains unanswered. How can you, on one hand, complain about the media taking entertainment "downmarket" and salute one of the biggest perpetrators as a hero for families based upon thier news division?

P.S. - I have no personal opposition to the use of obscenity, but I would like to have warning beforehand so I can steer my kids free of things they are too young to understand, and when I can wqatch it with them. That whole parentla guidance thingy, you know.

--------------------
"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." -George W. Bush, Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005

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Jonny T
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quote:
Absolutely right.
The reason we support Fox news, is that they give you all of the news, not just what they want you to hear, like the rest of the liberal media.
Granted, they're not perfect, but compared to the other bleeding hearts, they're the best we've got.

[lol] [lol] [lol]

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Hello! I'm good for nothing - will you love me just the same?

Greetings from the dark side...

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LeaflessMapleTree
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Just for the record MG123, which television stations are bleeding hearts? What news do they not show you. I think a blanket statement like that one needs a cite or two.

--------------------
"For me, religion is like a rhinoceros: I don't have one, and I'd really prefer not to be trampled by yours. But it is impressive, and even beautiful, and, to be honest, the world would be slightly worse off if there weren't any."
-Silas Sparkhammer

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Spamamander in a pear tree
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Psst Maple... you know, the news about why the U.S. is justified in being in Iraq, the "connection" between Al Queda and Saddam, the war on Xmas and Xianity in general, and discrimination against white conservative men... oh, and probably something about Dems and blow jobs.

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"There is a race between mankind and the universe. Mankind is trying to build bigger, better, faster, and more foolproof machines. The universe is trying to build bigger, better, and faster fools. So far the universe is winning." -Albert Einstein

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