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I posted two times over the years I have been with snopes about officers who misbehaved directly towards me when I had done nothing to initiate it. This is NOT that kind of post here, it is a separate and independent issue, so no one please bring that back up, thank you...
Anyway, I have two beefs, minor albeit, but still.
1: Beef number one. I see police cars, clearly not on pursuit towards a crime scene, you know, going normal speed and all, but when they get to a red light, they put on their flashers basically to pass through, or as a ticket would call it, RUN a red light. As soon as they have passed through, the flashers are turned off.
As I see it, there are two possibilities, one, they really are just plain running a red light abusing the use of the flashers, technically something they should get a big fat ticket for like the rest of us, or, and I hope this is the case, their being somewhere at a specific time even if only to man a post per se is a critical matter of their business, keeping the public safe and they pass through for this reason, a legal exception. I don't know the rule on this one, but I would hope the latter is the case...
2: Beef number two. Traffic court. Where I live, the District Courthouse is a place I walk past every day. Around it, are metered places for the public to park. Sometimes officers who have to be in traffic court park in those metered places like the rest of us, other times when they are taken up, rather than go to the further parking lot like everyone else has to, they park in areas where there are no meters and the rest of us would get parking violations. Is this legal? Do they have the right to park wherever they want just as a matter of convenience, knowing none of their fellows will ticket them even though technically they should? Well if so, this has got to stop. It's abuse of power and it's wrong. Again, I don't know if they have a legal exemption, but I would hope so and if so, I withdrawal my beef.
Having a badge is not a license to avoid traffic laws that the rest of us can get tickets from them for. The old "no one is above the law" thing applies for both situations.
I recall a time years ago, and this too is not one of the two previous posts I made, when I had a part time job as a cashier at a computer show and several officers came to the door. One showed me his badge and said, "We are police officers and just want to talk to [xxx vendor]." I was thinking, "well, unless you are on a crime scene, you have to pay to get in just like everyone else to do your shopping" and that was, in fact, all they were doing, but there were several of them and that was a bit intimidating so I let them get in without calling them on their abuse of their badges, only to be told by the show manager later, "well, we are not making a fuss about this, they really do have to pay but we're not going to stir things up." What I would like to have said was, "Okay so you get to break into this show without paying like criminals want to do, does that mean I don't have to pay my tickets? This is some sort of deal, right?" But in the bigger picture, I remembered "know what battles to fight."
I post this all because I saw a police car run the light in the manner I described just last night, and it irked me.
Posts: 736 | From: Maryland | Registered: Feb 2004
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ottercreek, I think I agreed with every word you just posted.
I was thinking about starting a log of cops violating the rules of the road, and then forwarding that to our chief of police, and, in fact, started one. But all I was doing was making notes in it; the cops around here wouldn't know a turn signal if it bit them (though, they would probably taze it dead!). So I stopped doing the log and will ocassionally gripe on my blog about it.
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
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I'm not defending it but maybe they go through the red lights so they don't end up getting stuck in a line of cars if they get an urgent call and have to get somewhere right away. Same thing for the parking.
Someone once told me the reason cops speed (besides the fact that they can) is to keep the traffic moving. If a cop went 65 mph on the highway, everyone would slow to less than 65 so they don't pass him.
Posts: 835 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Feb 2004
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AnglRdr, I doubt you would get much response from the chief of police, but isn't it a nice thought that maybe, somewhere, the cops would get in trouble for breaking the law?
Posts: 420 | From: Oxford, PA | Registered: Nov 2005
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I've come across similar issues in my official capacity. Most recently, when our kitchen was being remodeled and for two weeks we had to take lunch on the road. We'd position the rig in the lot of a local grocery store lot then walk to an adjacent burrito joint. This of course is the same grocery store where we make our daily shopping trips when the kitchen is functioning.
The lot is patrolled by rent-a-cops who once raised an objection. I reminded him to think about who writes the parking citations and what city they work for.
It can be argued that in a legal sense, the police squads aren't "parked". Wherever they are physically positioned is during the conduct of official business. Also, since it is the legal jurisdiction of the municipality that grants permission to park on a public thoroughfare and since these officers are the enforcement unit for those and other legal permissions, there is no way to cite an official vehicle for a violation. Units from other jurisdictions are allowed to "park" as a matter of professional courtesy. They could be ticketed, but they likely will not be.
Regarding entry to a ticketed event or assembly . . . In order for that event to have taken place, a permit was obtained from the governing jurisdiction. The laws pertaining to one's residence are not applicable in cases of public assembly. In a sense, the event and attendees are guests of the city. The enforcement agents of the city do not need to explain why they wanted entry. That explanation was offered as a simple human courtesy.
The red light thing. . . There are times when a patrol unit is responding but intends to conceal their location/approach. Unfortunately, it's usually a case of the officer(s) being asshole(s).
- P
Posts: 1856 | From: Milwaukee, WI | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by ParaDiddle: Regarding entry to a ticketed event or assembly . . . In order for that event to have taken place, a permit was obtained from the governing jurisdiction. The laws pertaining to one's residence are not applicable in cases of public assembly. In a sense, the event and attendees are guests of the city. The enforcement agents of the city do not need to explain why they wanted entry. That explanation was offered as a simple human courtesy.
I'm not sure I understand the explaination on this one. Why does the granting of a permit entitle the police to enter a limited-admission event without the permission of the event holder? And as the admission of this event is limited to certain persons (those paying admission), what makes this a public assembly? Isn't this a private assembly that is opened to segments of the public? Also, while ottorcreek didn't say, I assume this computer show was at some convention center. Does an event at a convention center require the same type of permit as a concert in a public park?
Next, were these officers in their official capacity? I doubt that uniformed officers would be the ones making purchasing decisions regarding computers for either cruisers or office work. I think (without proof) that they were probably not acting in their official capacity unless they were hired security.
Finally, slippery slope time. Do officers get free admission to any publicly-open event in their jurisdiction?
ETA: I assume that the holders of the computer show rented the convention center from the city/county. If so, I believe that makes them the hosts rather than the city/county. So the attendees would be the guests of the convention holders, not of the city/county.
-------------------- IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan Posts: 3694 | From: Arizona | Registered: Aug 2005
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I interned with a sheriff's office, and I was the president of our explorer (cadet) post. I can tell you first hand that most cops are great folks, and there are certainly bad ones out there...but I've found more often than not the public jumps to conclusions about police officer's actions.
The vast majority of calls are urgent, but not urgent enough to require lights, sirens, and speeding. For example, several cars may already be on scene but more are being moved into position...not enough to go blasting through town, but urgent enough that you need to move. In that case, most officers travel the posted speed limit, and when they come to an intersection with a red light will flip on the lights and move through the intersection. Cops drive around in their cars all day. Unless they are headed to a location, they aren't in a hurry to get anywhere. In fact, most of them welcome an opportunity to "sit" at a light because they can check the computer for information, get a good look at other vehicles, run plates, etc. This reminds me a great deal of a project our police department sponsored where the cops were paired up with foster kids to go out to eat at McDonalds and then go pick out a toy at Toys R Us (Christmas time). When they were taking the kids from McDonalds to Toys R Us, some of the cops let the kids flip the switch that activates the lights and/or siren. This was in the middle of the day (2ish) on a major road that is pretty quiet that time of day. Several citizens wrote letters to the editor and more called in complaints about the officers "abusing their power" by running lights/sirens "for no reason."
I guarantee you the vast majority of what you see as the police disregarding the law is perfectly understandable if you knew all the facts and weren't jumping to conclusions. I absolutely conceed that there are jerk cops who do jerk things. I conceed that cops definately do cut eachother breaks, but the stuff you should be concerned about you would never see.
The next time you want to get your panties in a bunch because a cop "ran" a red light, why don't you consider taking a lousy paying job where you have to stand on the highway at 2:00 in the morning in a rain storm and direct traffic while some guy gets scrapped off the highway. Perhaps you would like to crawl around on your hands and knees looking for the teeth that some woman's drunken husband punched out of her mouth. How about taking the statement from a rape victim? When your shift is over, you can go grab your ankles in the sergent's office because a citizen called in a complaint that you "ran a red light for no reason."
I'm not saying don't be critical of true abuse that harms people...absolutely, cops hate jerk cops more than anyone. But being a cop is a really rough job. They are out there in the crappy weather, in the middle of the night. In their jobs they see, hear, smell and deal with some of the most horrific things. Cops deal with awful things so that you don't have to. The least you can do is not make their jobs even more difficult by whining about actions that you likely don't understand the context of.
-------------------- Where are my pants and why am I wearing this helmet? Posts: 27 | From: Ogden, UT | Registered: Oct 2006
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I'm not sure I'd agree with everything Ladyannora said, but I do personally give cops a wider leeway. The way I see it, were I ever in harm's way most of these guys would, without hesitation, risk their lives to get me out of it. risking their lives - possibly dying - for me. Anyone who is willing to die for me gets a free pass ahead of me at any red light. it's the least I can do.
-------------------- a moment for old friends now estranged, victims of the flux of alliances and changing perceptions. There was something there once, and that something is worth honoring as well. - John Carroll Posts: 3375 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by LadyAnnora: The vast majority of calls are urgent, but not urgent enough to require lights, sirens, and speeding. For example, several cars may already be on scene but more are being moved into position...not enough to go blasting through town, but urgent enough that you need to move. In that case, most officers travel the posted speed limit, and when they come to an intersection with a red light will flip on the lights and move through the intersection. Cops drive around in their cars all day. Unless they are headed to a location, they aren't in a hurry to get anywhere. In fact, most of them welcome an opportunity to "sit" at a light because they can check the computer for information, get a good look at other vehicles, run plates, etc.
This pretty much sums up what I was going to say based on what cop friends have explained to me and my personal experience from riding with one of them on two separate occasions. On two busy weekend nights I was with him I can't think of a single call that was lights and sirens the whole way, but there were plenty "get there as fast as you can, don't waste time sitting at red lights with no traffic" kind of calls. Also, we did very little driving around that didn't involve being on our way to a call. If there were no calls, it was time to sit and run radar or catch up on paperwork, not drive around going through red lights just because he could.
quote:Originally posted by ottercreek: 1: Beef number one. I see police cars, clearly not on pursuit towards a crime scene,
Unless you have a police scanner and listen to it faithfully I'm going to have to point out that you really have no idea whether a cruiser is responding to a call or not.
If the officer wasn't on call, why would he be in a hurry to go anywhere?
quote:Sometimes officers who have to be in traffic court park in those metered places like the rest of us, other times when they are taken up, rather than go to the further parking lot like everyone else has to, they park in areas where there are no meters and the rest of us would get parking violations. Is this legal?
If the city says on-duty cruisers may park there, then they can park there. I really wouldn't like having my tax dollars pay for officers to drive around in circles looking for parking spots.
quote: One showed me his badge and said, "We are police officers and just want to talk to [xxx vendor]." I was thinking, "well, unless you are on a crime scene, you have to pay to get in just like everyone else to do your shopping"
I'm unclear. Were they uniformed? Did they come in just to purchase items? Or were they actually on police business?
It'd be very bad if they were shopping while on duty, or if they were off-duty and flashed badges just to get free admission.
But I can't help thinking what would happen if you had some crazed individual shooting up the place and the police couldn't get in to stop him because they didn't have enough cash to get tickets.
-------------------- Thinking about New England / missing old Japan Posts: 2603 | From: Virginia | Registered: Mar 2001
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LadyAnnora, what good reason could there possibly be for an officer who is merely cruising down the street, no lights, no sirens, to not use their turn signal?
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr: LadyAnnora, what good reason could there possibly be for an officer who is merely cruising down the street, no lights, no sirens, to not use their turn signal?
OK, now you're just whining. I mean, really.
-------------------- "The system would also let you send your picture and contact details to a rough trade gay contact mailing list saying you like to be surprised with power tools in a non-consensual role play scenario – but that doesn’t mean you SHOULD do it.!" Posts: 298 | From: Monterrey, Mexico | Registered: May 2005
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Many officers drive while simultaneously doing other tasks, such as talking on the radio, sending or recieving information using laptops etc. I've seen many officers drive with one hand while using the other for something else. When they do this, I've often seen them not use a signal, basically because they don't have a spare hand. Other times, I've seen them drive by something and request info, (ie, run plates) and something comes back, and they will between one heartbeat and the next reroute to go back or intercept. Calmly, quietly, no lights, no sirens. Cops generally tend to under re-act vs. over react.
Of course, it's quite possibly they just aren't bothering to use their signal, but following the attitude I took in my original post...knowing what they do, I'm not willing to give them grief over it.
-------------------- Where are my pants and why am I wearing this helmet? Posts: 27 | From: Ogden, UT | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr: LadyAnnora, what good reason could there possibly be for an officer who is merely cruising down the street, no lights, no sirens, to not use their turn signal?
OK, now you're just whining. I mean, really.
Am I?
Well, thanks for that.
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by LadyAnnora: Hi AnglRdr,
Many officers drive while simultaneously doing other tasks, such as talking on the radio, sending or recieving information using laptops etc. I've seen many officers drive with one hand while using the other for something else. When they do this, I've often seen them not use a signal, basically because they don't have a spare hand. Other times, I've seen them drive by something and request info, (ie, run plates) and something comes back, and they will between one heartbeat and the next reroute to go back or intercept. Calmly, quietly, no lights, no sirens. Cops generally tend to under re-act vs. over react.
Of course, it's quite possibly they just aren't bothering to use their signal, but following the attitude I took in my original post...knowing what they do, I'm not willing to give them grief over it.
While I appreciate that all of that may happen sometimes, it really doesn't explain the complete lack of turn signal usage of officers here. Now, saying that, you should know that most drivers do not use their signals, either, so it isn't as if the cops are doing anything that outrageous.
It's just something that really bugs me because they should be complying with the law, too.
I would pick nits about the "under reacting" thing, but really, there is no proof to support your position or mine, so there's really no point.
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Finite Fourier Alchemy:
quote:Originally posted by ottercreek:
quote:Sometimes officers who have to be in traffic court park in those metered places like the rest of us, other times when they are taken up, rather than go to the further parking lot like everyone else has to, they park in areas where there are no meters and the rest of us would get parking violations. Is this legal?
If the city says on-duty cruisers may park there, then they can park there. I really wouldn't like having my tax dollars pay for officers to drive around in circles looking for parking spots.
And if there were an emergency they needed to respond to, I wouldn't want them running to the back forty to find their car, either.
-------------------- "The little local company I buy from has CHEAP shipping and I have met their goats." (snapdragonfly)
"And that's one lost erection I'll never get back! You hear me Dan! I'm owed an erection!" (I'mNotDedalus) Posts: 2658 | From: California | Registered: Jul 2005
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I see your point AnglRdr, about the fact that cops should obey the law, but it has always seemed to me that there is a double standard the other way. When people are pulled over, they almost always have a reason why they weren't complying with the law, and some of the excuses are doozies. Yet, people can't seem to understand or cut cops slack for not complying. If your cell phone rang, and you answered it while driving and it was someone telling you your house was burning down, and you turned around to rush home and a cop gave you a ticket for failing to use a turn signal, you'd be understandably upset. If a cop flips the car around to reroute to go to a call, people criticize them for abusing their position. It gets old after a while. Why are we not willing to give cops the benefit of the doubt?
When I say under-react, I mean it strongly and I can back up my position. Police have to do everything with caution. Contrary to popular opinion, they are extremely reluctant to go tearing across town lights and sirens blazing. Experienced cops take even the most urgent calls very slowly. In situations where the average person would probably rush in, or react by wanting to respond as quickly as possible, an experienced officer will actually appear to be going to slowly. The times you do see them flying across town is probably because a fellow officer is in the middle of a dangerous situation, or a citizens life is confirmed to be at risk. These people's first responsibilty is to go home to their families at night...so for them, there has to be a pretty darn good reason to risk getting t-boned by Joe Citizen cause you were running lights and sirens to call. In situation where you would probably judge them to be over reacting, again, it's because their first responsiblity is to go home to their families at the end of the night.
-------------------- Where are my pants and why am I wearing this helmet? Posts: 27 | From: Ogden, UT | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by LadyAnnora: I see your point AnglRdr, about the fact that cops should obey the law, but it has always seemed to me that there is a double standard the other way. When people are pulled over, they almost always have a reason why they weren't complying with the law, and some of the excuses are doozies. Yet, people can't seem to understand or cut cops slack for not complying. If your cell phone rang, and you answered it while driving and it was someone telling you your house was burning down, and you turned around to rush home and a cop gave you a ticket for failing to use a turn signal, you'd be understandably upset. If a cop flips the car around to reroute to go to a call, people criticize them for abusing their position. It gets old after a while. Why are we not willing to give cops the benefit of the doubt?
I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt *to a point*. And please understand that I am specifically not talking about officers making a call. I am talking about cops cruising, say, on their way back to the precinct for shift change.
quote:When I say under-react, I mean it strongly and I can back up my position. Police have to do everything with caution. Contrary to popular opinion, they are extremely reluctant to go tearing across town lights and sirens blazing. Experienced cops take even the most urgent calls very slowly. In situations where the average person would probably rush in, or react by wanting to respond as quickly as possible, an experienced officer will actually appear to be going to slowly. The times you do see them flying across town is probably because a fellow officer is in the middle of a dangerous situation, or a citizens life is confirmed to be at risk. These people's first responsibilty is to go home to their families at night...so for them, there has to be a pretty darn good reason to risk getting t-boned by Joe Citizen cause you were running lights and sirens to call. In situation where you would probably judge them to be over reacting, again, it's because their first responsiblity is to go home to their families at the end of the night.
I am not sure how that is "backing up" your position, but, like I said, neither of us can provide proof, so it's really not worth debating.
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by LadyAnnora: Hi AnglRdr,
Many officers drive while simultaneously doing other tasks, such as talking on the radio, sending or recieving information using laptops etc. I've seen many officers drive with one hand while using the other for something else.
Wait a minute!! So, they are not able to use a turn signal because they are doing something that is illegal for other drivers to do? I don't think that explanation is satisfactory
Next time I see a cop car, I'm going to give it a wide berth Why? Because the cop might have his eyes glued to the fricking laptop, that's why.
-------------------- Nico Sasha In between my father's fields;And the citadels of the rule; Lies a no-man's land which I must cross; To find my stolen jewel. Posts: 4912 | From: VA | Registered: Jul 2003
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GenYus, I'm really not trying to sound snarky, but I did already answer all your questions. I don't know what elaboration I can offer without repeating what I previously said.
- P
Posts: 1856 | From: Milwaukee, WI | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr: ottercreek, I think I agreed with every word you just posted.
Holy crap !!!!
-------------------- "I always tell the truth. Even when I lie." - Tony Montana Posts: 890 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr: ottercreek, I think I agreed with every word you just posted.
Holy crap !!!!
I know, right?
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote: Wait a minute!! So, they are not able to use a turn signal because they are doing something that is illegal for other drivers to do? I don't think that explanation is satisfactory
MadJay, First off, it is not illegal to drive while distracted doing other things. Unwise, yes. Dangerous, yes. Increased liability in the event of an accident, Yes. Illegal, no. You should give every car a "wide berth" because you never know when someone will have their eyes glued to their radio dial, or be distracted by the toddler who just spilt a milkshake all over the back seat. Law enforcement officers have to go through an intense driving course at academy. They spend far more time driving than the average citizen, and have very few accidents. (I'll try and link later...but when was the last time you heard about a cop being at fault in an accident)
A question back at you. What would you suggest, that everytime an officer is called over the radio pull over to the side of the road before they respond. How about when dispatch messages them that the plates they just called in cleared they wait to retrive the message until they are at a full and complete stop. I really hate to come onto this board like a ton of bricks, but this kind of criticism without respect to reality doesn't accomplish anything. You've complained, now I want to see you offer up a workable alternative.
Police are highly trained to multi-task while driving, they have much more experience and practice doing so, they do so in a safe and effective manner. What was your problem again?
-------------------- Where are my pants and why am I wearing this helmet? Posts: 27 | From: Ogden, UT | Registered: Oct 2006
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr: I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt *to a point*.
Except when they wantonly endanger lives by *gasp* failing to use a turn signal. Really, I'm the first to freak out when cops are involved in abuse...but are you seriously telling me that with all the things to be concerned about this is what gets your goat?
And please understand that I am specifically not talking about officers making a call. I am talking about cops cruising, say, on their way back to the precinct for shift change.
A time of the night when that have to wrap up about 20 different tasks, call in information and head home probably 2 hours later than scheduled because they had to wrestle with some drunk who puked in their back seat.
Your responses don't indicate that you are willing to even try to understand.
-------------------- Where are my pants and why am I wearing this helmet? Posts: 27 | From: Ogden, UT | Registered: Oct 2006
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Unfortunately, I'm a bit biased against cops. A few years ago I lived in a small college town. I knew lots and lots of college students, many of whom did drugs. Several of them told me that their #1 source of drugs in that town, was the cops themselves. It seems that there were a number of officers on the force who would confiscate drugs from busts, then turn around and sell them to other users.
Okay, it's possible some of these people were pulling my leg. But I doubt it, since I heard it from multiple sources, and the same names came up a lot.
I'm sure it's not like that everywhere, but it still left me with a bad impression of police as a whole, one which I'm still trying to get over.
Also, my personal experience with police (I've only had one ticket in my life, but I've been in the car with others who were pulled over, etc), is that they're often rude. I understand why - they hear the same excuses all day from people trying to rationalize why they law doesn't apply to them. I'd be rude too. But it would still be nice if they could show some common courtesy. Again, this is just from my experience, I'm not saying they're like that everywhere or all the time.
-------------------- I believe I'm growing skeptical of cynicism. MyspaceNWNBoard Posts: 917 | From: Nashville TN | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr: I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt *to a point*.
Except when they wantonly endanger lives by *gasp* failing to use a turn signal. Really, I'm the first to freak out when cops are involved in abuse...but are you seriously telling me that with all the things to be concerned about this is what gets your goat?
Well, I could go into the cops not stopping for buses with their red lights flashing, or cops running red lights without benefit of even flashing their blue lights for effect, or not coming to a complete stop, or speeding, or a whole host of other unsafe driving tactics, which we common folk should expect to be cited for if we did.
But I just used the not using the turn signal thing as an example of all of those because it was less wordy.
quote:
quote: And please understand that I am specifically not talking about officers making a call. I am talking about cops cruising, say, on their way back to the precinct for shift change.
A time of the night when that have to wrap up about 20 different tasks, call in information and head home probably 2 hours later than scheduled because they had to wrestle with some drunk who puked in their back seat.
Not talking about that. With all due respect, you are assuming you know what my experiences with this subject are. Please stop doing that.
quote:Your responses don't indicate that you are willing to even try to understand.
First off, I am not sure why you're taking this personally. Secondly, I do understand; like I said, I am willing to cut them some slack. I am not, however, willing to enable their bad behavior. I can't think of a reason why I should.
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Finite Fourier Alchemy:
quote:Originally posted by ottercreek: 1: Beef number one. I see police cars, clearly not on pursuit towards a crime scene,
Unless you have a police scanner and listen to it faithfully I'm going to have to point out that you really have no idea whether a cruiser is responding to a call or not.
Back in that same college town I mentioned earlier, I worked at a Subway. From the restaurant I had a pretty clear view of the road leading up to us. A couple of times I saw police cars flash their lights to run a red light, only to finally park at Subway for dinner. It seems pretty obvious to me - in those instances, anyway - that they weren't on their way to a call.
These were nights when no other cars were on the road, so it's not like they were inconveniencing anyone. Still, "I'm not inconveniencing anyone" is yet another excuse ordinary citizens use when explaining why the law doesn't apply to them.
-------------------- I believe I'm growing skeptical of cynicism. MyspaceNWNBoard Posts: 917 | From: Nashville TN | Registered: Oct 2005
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LadyAnnora, it is so good to hear from someone who, like me, was actually an explorer with a police department. There are so many things that as explorers we have learned and/or experienced as a result of the time that we spent with officers and through the mock-training exercises that we were taught. In high school when I was still an explorer I had several friends ask me these same questions that OtterCreek started this thread with. And, from what I read from your posts we were taught pretty much the same thing in regard to these issues.
I don't really have anything to add to what has already been said. It bothers me when people jump to conclusions about things that officers seemingly do that breaks the law that anyone else would be ticketed for. And, yes, there are times that officers as they are in their cars will be reading and using their laptops, running plates and getting records on people their pursuing, as well as talking on their cell phone or the radio. Sure, it would be unwise for other people to do this while driving, and in some places doing these things may be illegal, but as LadyAnnora pointed out they are trained extensively to multi-task and multi-tasking is an aspect of the job that just can not be avoided, its pretty much in the job description.
P.S. LadyAnnora, how long were you an explorer? I was in for 2 1/2 years. Do you still have some of your equipment? My handcuffs are in my closet with my utility belt. Man, those were some fun times...my badge number was 9, what was yours?
-------------------- "Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't they?" --the Scarecrow
"The Christian Right is neither." Posts: 72 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
What makes you think I am, or anybody else here are, jumping to conclusions, MissBethie? Are Explorers the only people who have relevant experience with police officers?
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by LadyAnnora: ...it is not illegal to drive while distracted doing other things.
It sure is. It's called "driving without due care and attention".
-------------------- "I always tell the truth. Even when I lie." - Tony Montana Posts: 890 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Apr 2005
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It's great that police officers are taught to multi-task really well. But they are not given a pass from obeying the laws.
Those laws are about safety. Turn signals are there to alert other drivers to what you are about to do. Coming to a complete stop at a stop sign forces you to really check the cross traffic. Turning from the correct lane can save the person who happens to be in your blind spot.
I get that they have more training than you or I, but then you also say that they are doing these dangerous things while reading a computer screen and talking on the radio.
Police are legally allowed to reasonably break traffic laws when in pursuit/en route to a call. Not just because it is inconvenient for them to follow the law.
The police will not let me out of a ticket if I take special driving classes to become an expert driver, and then fail to obey the law. They don't get off the hook for this either.
quote:Originally posted by ParaDiddle: GenYus, I'm really not trying to sound snarky, but I did already answer all your questions. I don't know what elaboration I can offer without repeating what I previously said.
- P
I was hoping that your original post was a joke. Please don't tell me that you intended it in all seriousness -- including using your position to intimidate private security guards?
The owner of private property doesn't need the cops permission to tell someone that they can't park there without authorization. And they don't need the cops to write a ticket in order to have the vehicle towed.
In the future, I'd suggest that you mention that you are frequent customers, and get permission to park there. I'm sure the owners wouldn't mind. It is incredibly improper, and probably illegal (I don't know your official misconduct laws) to suggest that the property owner could not take any action against you because of your position.
As for the whole explanation of cops not having to buy tickets because the expo needed a permit... Um, cite? Using the badge and office to get out of paying a ticket price, unless it was for actual investigation of a crime, can't be anything but misconduct. And even if they were there on business in the sense that they were going to buy stuff for the department, that just makes them customers, who still have to pay to get in.
quote:Originally posted by 1958Fury: Back in that same college town I mentioned earlier, I worked at a Subway. From the restaurant I had a pretty clear view of the road leading up to us. A couple of times I saw police cars flash their lights to run a red light, only to finally park at Subway for dinner. It seems pretty obvious to me - in those instances, anyway - that they weren't on their way to a call.
Not to say that these things don't occur more generally, but it sounds like that particular town has a rampant problem with police corruption and malfeasance, probably moreso than most.
Posts: 345 | From: Washington, DC | Registered: Jul 2006
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This police officer says he turned on his lights to "help find a speeder." But, it turns out he had time to stop and ticket the guy that honked at him.
quote:Originally posted by erwins: This police officer says he turned on his lights to "help find a speeder." But, it turns out he had time to stop and ticket the guy that honked at him.
quote:Officer Puglise said he was helping fellow police track down a speeder when Palmer saw him pass through the red light.
"Track down" a speeder? Huh?
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
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