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Author Topic: You screwed up my sandwich - twice - and yet you get mad at me?
Mosherette
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
I use my debit Mastercard to make the vast majority of my purchases. I use it as a credit card, not a debit card: I sign for my purchases but do not enter my PIN and cannot get cash back. Not only am I not charged a fee, I recently signed up for a points-based reward program on those purchases.

I know I've asked these questions before, but it was a long time ago and I've forgotten the answers/explanation.

OK, Lainie - you have a single card that is a debit Mastercard. I get that; I have one that is a debit Visa card. The bit I don't understand is where you say you sign for your purchases, not put in your PIN or get cashback. Does this mean that if you sign something it works one way (as a credit card) but if you used your PIN it would work as a debit card and the money would come out of your bank account rather than go on your credit card bill? One card performs both functions depending on how you verify yourself?

Here, I have separate cards - my debit Visa cards, which comes out of my bank account, and my credit Visa card, which goes onto my credit card bill. (And FWIW I've never been charged a fee for using either of them, although minimum purchase values aren't unusual in small shops.)

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Silence should never under any circumstances be construed as agreement. A lot of the time, it's simply a reflection that someone just said something so stupid that no response could possibly do it justice. - Ramblin' Dave

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
I use my debit Mastercard to make the vast majority of my purchases. I use it as a credit card, not a debit card: I sign for my purchases but do not enter my PIN and cannot get cash back. Not only am I not charged a fee, I recently signed up for a points-based reward program on those purchases.

I know I've asked these questions before, but it was a long time ago and I've forgotten the answers/explanation.

OK, Lainie - you have a single card that is a debit Mastercard. I get that; I have one that is a debit Visa card. The bit I don't understand is where you say you sign for your purchases, not put in your PIN or get cashback. Does this mean that if you sign something it works one way (as a credit card) but if you used your PIN it would work as a debit card and the money would come out of your bank account rather than go on your credit card bill? One card performs both functions depending on how you verify yourself?


Functionally, a debit card with a VISA/Mastercard logo on it can work just like a credit card, as well. There is no difference in the way the transactions are handled by the bank; they will still debit from your account when the transactions posts.

The biggest difference is the cost to the retailer. Debit transactions, as I understand it, are free for retailers to process, but credit transactions cost (generally) a flat fee per transaction, plus a percentage of the transaction. Small shops often have a minimum purchase amount requirement to use a credit card, but usually won't to use a debit. Oh, and some shops don't have a keypad to enter a PIN, so you can still use your debit card there, it'll be swiped, though, just as a credit card would be.

If I am using my card (which is almost never now), and I don't care for the service I have been given, I will use my card as a credit; if I am satisfied, I will use it as a debit.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Mosh, that does sound a bit confusing now that I re-read it. The money comes out of my checking account either way. There's no credit line on the card. The difference is in how the transaction is processed, and in the fact that I can't get cashback for signature transactions. I suppose it may also keep my PIN more secure, since I'm not using it at every store I go to.

ETA: Spanked by AnglRdr. I also wanted to add that my bank actually instructs accountholders to use the credit-processing option, not the debit-processing option. I don't know why, but I assume it benefits them in some way.

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
ETA: Spanked by AnglRdr. I also wanted to add that my bank actually instructs accountholders to use the credit-processing option, not the debit-processing option. I don't know why, but I assume it benefits them in some way.

It's all about the fees they charge the retailer.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Mosherette
Deck the Malls


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Ahhh, thank you both. I'm not sure how the charging works here (there is always some bumph posted about it by the tills but I've never read it) but small shops will often have a minimum purchase value for both debit and credit cards - usually £5 in my experience.

Two more questions; why can't you get cashbask when you sign rather than use your PIN? Is it because the shop is treating it as a credit card transaction? And how do you make sure the shop treats it as the one type of transaction and not the other - do you hand over your card and say "I'll sign for it/I'll use my PIN"?

Chip and PIN, as it's called here, has almost completely ousted signing for your card transactions here now.

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Silence should never under any circumstances be construed as agreement. A lot of the time, it's simply a reflection that someone just said something so stupid that no response could possibly do it justice. - Ramblin' Dave

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Gibbie
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Most places ask "credit or debit" when you hand over your card. On the ones that have the self swipey things you usually get a choice on the screen to select which you want. If they don't ask, they probably aren't set up to accept it as a debit.

I don't even know the PIN on my debit card. My credit union still issues two separate cards, one with a logo and one without, so I always use my non-logoed card to withdraw cash from an ATM and my logoed card to pay for purchases. It's silly, I could use the Visa debit for everything but it's a long established habit.

And yes, you can't get cash back when you sign because the store is now treating it as a credit transaction.

Gibbie

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If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
Ahhh, thank you both. I'm not sure how the charging works here (there is always some bumph posted about it by the tills but I've never read it) but small shops will often have a minimum purchase value for both debit and credit cards - usually £5 in my experience.

Two more questions; why can't you get cashbask when you sign rather than use your PIN? Is it because the shop is treating it as a credit card transaction? And how do you make sure the shop treats it as the one type of transaction and not the other - do you hand over your card and say "I'll sign for it/I'll use my PIN"?


Usually, if you hand your card to the cashier/clerk and he/she swipes it, it will be processed as a credit, though some places you can tell the cashier it is a debit. The shops where the cashier swipes the card even for debit transactions often has a keypad device where the customer inputs his/her PIN. But, many shops will have a customer-operated machine where they can swipe their card and choose whether they want the transaction to go through as a credit or a debit. The customer then will input his/her PIN or sign the capture screen.

[ETA: Rather, what Gibbie said!]

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Mosherette
Deck the Malls


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I wonder how often hopeless confusion occurs when non-USAns try to shop in the USA, and vice versa? I would be pretty confused if I handed over my Visa debit card, which has DEBIT CARD written on it in big letters, and was asked if I wanted my card to be used as a credit card had I not read this thread!

And that's without being asked for ID as well. (Which doesn't happen here, by the way.)

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Silence should never under any circumstances be construed as agreement. A lot of the time, it's simply a reflection that someone just said something so stupid that no response could possibly do it justice. - Ramblin' Dave

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funkyteapots
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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When I had my shop, the fees for debit card transactions were actually higher than those for credit card transactions. We never did add a PIN keypad to the system.

Also, our merchant account agreement would not allow us to set a minimum credit card purchase amount.

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Also...I can kill you with my brain. ~River Tam

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
I wonder how often hopeless confusion occurs when non-USAns try to shop in the USA, and vice versa? I would be pretty confused if I handed over my Visa debit card, which has DEBIT CARD written on it in big letters, and was asked if I wanted my card to be used as a credit card had I not read this thread! And that's without being asked for ID as well. (Which doesn't happen here, by the way.)

IME, cashiers only ask for ID if the cardholder has not signed the back of the card. And not always then, either.

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Mr. Furious
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I have an atrocious signature, and one that varies widely from signing to signing. The first purchase I made in London, the cashier asked me to re-sign so that the signature matched the one on the card. I thanked her, and told her that I wish that they did that more in the US.

I'm glad she didn't ask for ID, because I didn't have any on me - we were specifically told not to carry our passports around, and that's the only form of ID I brought with me.

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"He's not gonna let me in, I'm Mr. Dirty Mouth!"
- Jeffrey Coho (Craig Bierko), Boston Legal

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funkyteapots
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Also according to our merchant agreement, we were not allowed to accept any card that was not signed on the back. "See ID" was not valid. If the card was not signed, we were to ask for ID and have the customer sign the card. If they refused, we were not to accept the card.

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Also...I can kill you with my brain. ~River Tam

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Seaboe Muffinchucker
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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When I was in England (both in 1989 and 1998), people kept telling me my card was not validly signed (I had "see ID" and also my initials), yet they never refused the card. I kept thinking if it's not valid, why are you accepting it?

Seaboe

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Education is not the filling of a hard drive, but the lighting of a bulb. -- Yeats via Esprise Me

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callee
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker:
When I was in England (both in 1989 and 1998), people kept telling me my card was not validly signed (I had "see ID" and also my initials), yet they never refused the card. I kept thinking if it's not valid, why are you accepting it?

Seaboe

ah, you need to read this

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a moment for old friends now estranged, victims of the flux of alliances and changing perceptions. There was something there once, and that something is worth honoring as well. - John Carroll

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funkyteapots
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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The problem with the Credit Card Prank is that the credit card companies do not get copies of the receipts. They're kept by the retailer, so all that this person was doing was proving that the retailer's employees (in most cases) were not doing their jobs.

I'm not sure what happens on the retailer's side when a charge is disputed by a cardholder (we never had that happen). It's possible that copies of the receipts are sent in at that point.

The prankster is correct, though, that the credit card companies seem not to care. I had my cc number used (but not my card, somehow someone faked a card with my number) earlier this year for about $12,000 worth of fraudulent transactions in another state. When I asked the cc company fraud department what happened next, they said that once I returned the affidavit stating that the charges were not valid, it would all be charged back to the retailers.

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Also...I can kill you with my brain. ~River Tam

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Furious:
I have an atrocious signature, and one that varies widely from signing to signing. The first purchase I made in London, the cashier asked me to re-sign so that the signature matched the one on the card. I thanked her, and told her that I wish that they did that more in the US.

Of course, if you had stolen the card and were copying the signature, she only gave you another chance to practice. [Wink]

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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Em
Happy Holly Days


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Back in my checkout chick days, I was always slightly astonished by how people reacted if I told them their signature on the credit card slip looked wrong and could they please try again and/or show some ID. If I didn't bother comparing the signatures, what was the point of having people sign?

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What the NFBSK does YOMANK mean?

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Ms. Kringle
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Danvers Carew:
If I ask for a 'black coffee' however, I'm specifically asking for coffee without milk, so the barista/tea lady/vending machine has no reason to even hint at the existence of milk when dealing with my order.

My point is that the barista is likely very aware that it is very silly to ask someone who has just ordered 'black coffee' (i.e. 'coffee with no milk') whether they want room in the cup for milk, or whether they want milk, but they probably have to ask because so many customers in the past have asked for 'black coffee with milk'. I think people think the coffee used in 'black coffee' is better quality than the coffee used in 'white coffee', so ask for a 'black coffee with milk' rather than the perfectly logical 'white coffee'. I realise the barista is just trying to work out what the customer actually wants and not what they say they want. [/QB]

I'd rather be asked if I want room for milk or sugar by a barista, because nobody ever adds the right amount FOR me. If I want light and sweet coffee, I'd rather add my own damn cream and sugar, because if someone else does it for me, they usually use too little cream, and too much sugar.

So, I happily order black coffee, and ask for room for milk.

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Beware corporate zombies! They will purchase your brain on E-Bay!

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Em
Happy Holly Days


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When you* say you put cream in your coffee, do you mean actual cream, as in the thicker stuff which is skimmed off the top of milk? If so, doesn't it cause something akin to an oil slick when it melts?

*Generic, although it seems to be a North American thing.

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What the NFBSK does YOMANK mean?

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Ms. Kringle:
quote:
Originally posted by Danvers Carew:
If I ask for a 'black coffee' however, I'm specifically asking for coffee without milk, so the barista/tea lady/vending machine has no reason to even hint at the existence of milk when dealing with my order.

My point is that the barista is likely very aware that it is very silly to ask someone who has just ordered 'black coffee' (i.e. 'coffee with no milk') whether they want room in the cup for milk, or whether they want milk, but they probably have to ask because so many customers in the past have asked for 'black coffee with milk'. I think people think the coffee used in 'black coffee' is better quality than the coffee used in 'white coffee', so ask for a 'black coffee with milk' rather than the perfectly logical 'white coffee'. I realise the barista is just trying to work out what the customer actually wants and not what they say they want.

I'd rather be asked if I want room for milk or sugar by a barista, because nobody ever adds the right amount FOR me. If I want light and sweet coffee, I'd rather add my own damn cream and sugar, because if someone else does it for me, they usually use too little cream, and too much sugar.

So, I happily order black coffee, and ask for room for milk. [/QB]

Is anybody else's McDonalds adding the cream and sugar for them now?

Ack! Just get me my egg-free McMuffin and let *me* worry about accessorizing my coffee, okay, pal?

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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tagurit
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quote:
Originally posted by Em:
When you* say you put cream in your coffee, do you mean actual cream, as in the thicker stuff which is skimmed off the top of milk? If so, doesn't it cause something akin to an oil slick when it melts?

*Generic, although it seems to be a North American thing.

Cream can be anything that lightens coffee, from half n half (which is not really half n half, don't ask me what it is) to non-dairy creamers. At Starbucks my choices at the counter are half n half, skim milk, and whole milk. I prefer whole milk, but if someone wants to call it cream, it doesn't bother me.

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Explore, enjoy and protect the planet
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AAMAH

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Em
Happy Holly Days


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Thanks Tagurit. I drank my coffee with real cream for a while when I was trying to put on enough weight to join the navy, and the oil slick revolted me. I'm relieved to know that there isn't an entire continent of people who do that to themselves voluntarily.

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What the NFBSK does YOMANK mean?

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Ms. Kringle
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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I mean half-n-half, personally....yuck, I can't imagine drinking real cream.

Eeeeeyeeeuuuuuwwww!

*revolting images abound*

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Beware corporate zombies! They will purchase your brain on E-Bay!

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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I've put real cream in my coffee but it is kind of yucky. I generally use soy milk or half n half. Spekaing of half n half, Tagurit, if it's not half milk and half cream what is it? Slightly fattier milk?

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Officially Heartless

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
Is anybody else's McDonalds adding the cream and sugar for them now?

Ack! Just get me my egg-free McMuffin and let *me* worry about accessorizing my coffee, okay, pal?

I think they're all doing it now.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
Is anybody else's McDonalds adding the cream and sugar for them now?

Ack! Just get me my egg-free McMuffin and let *me* worry about accessorizing my coffee, okay, pal?

I think they're all doing it now.
That makes me very sad. Though it will more than likely cut down on the 80eleven packages of sugar in my bag I get when I ask for "two sugars."

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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chillas
Coventry Mall Carol


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quote:
Originally posted by ThistleSoftware:
Spekaing of half n half, Tagurit, if it's not half milk and half cream what is it? Slightly fattier milk?

I'm not sure what she meant, but I can tell you that half-and-half is half whole milk and half cream.

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Come on, come on - and the world's a little brighter


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tagurit
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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^ Cream from cash cow
quote:
Originally posted by chillas:
quote:
Originally posted by ThistleSoftware:
Spekaing of half n half, Tagurit, if it's not half milk and half cream what is it? Slightly fattier milk?

I'm not sure what she meant, but I can tell you that half-and-half is half whole milk and half cream.
Or, at least, it's a dairy product with a [butter]fat content in the range of half and half of cream and whole milk. Then it's ultra-pasteurized. I cannot stand the taste of dairy products that are ultra-pasteurized. They nauseate me. You can barely find a half n half in the US that isn't ultra-pasteurized without going to a local, usually family-owned dairy.

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Explore, enjoy and protect the planet
---
AAMAH

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Rhiandmoi
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I don't drink many coffee based beverages, but when I do I lighten them with whipped cream or ice cream.

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I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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NeeCD
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by funkyteapots:
When I had my shop, the fees for debit card transactions were actually higher than those for credit card transactions. We never did add a PIN keypad to the system.

That's why I always ask what they prefer when I use my Visa/debit card, unless I'm wanting cash back. Some shops would rather process it as debit, some as credit, and some don't care. At the grocery store, I always use it as a debit, though. I don't like to hold up the line any longer than necessary, and waiting to get the paper to sign always feels like it takes forever.

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I wondered why the Frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
What does "Bookachow", "YOMANK!" and other lingo mean?

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tagurit
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Rhiandmoi:
I don't drink many coffee based beverages, but when I do I lighten them with whipped cream or ice cream.

Oh yeah. Most of the time I have a half gallon of Stroh's Michigan Black Cherry ice cream in the freezer and I love tossing some of that into a cup of coffee. I first did it out of desperation because I found myself without milk for my morning coffee. I liked it so much I do it now just because. Right now I'm drinking coffee lightened with a generous splash of eggnog. Mmmmmmm.....

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Explore, enjoy and protect the planet
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AAMAH

Posts: 8532 | From: Michigan | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Danvers Carew
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Ms. Kringle:
quote:
Originally posted by Danvers Carew:
If I ask for a 'black coffee' however, I'm specifically asking for coffee without milk, so the barista/tea lady/vending machine has no reason to even hint at the existence of milk when dealing with my order.

My point is that the barista is likely very aware that it is very silly to ask someone who has just ordered 'black coffee' (i.e. 'coffee with no milk') whether they want room in the cup for milk, or whether they want milk, but they probably have to ask because so many customers in the past have asked for 'black coffee with milk'. I think people think the coffee used in 'black coffee' is better quality than the coffee used in 'white coffee', so ask for a 'black coffee with milk' rather than the perfectly logical 'white coffee'. I realise the barista is just trying to work out what the customer actually wants and not what they say they want.

I'd rather be asked if I want room for milk or sugar by a barista, because nobody ever adds the right amount FOR me. If I want light and sweet coffee, I'd rather add my own damn cream and sugar, because if someone else does it for me, they usually use too little cream, and too much sugar.

So, I happily order black coffee, and ask for room for milk. [/QB]

Your use of the word 'damn' here is very masterful and shows you are a no-nonsense type who likes what they like and won't stand for any lip. I expect you can judge a man's character purely by the strength of his handshake. I like the cut of your jib kid - you're hired.

I know exactly what you're saying and appreciate that this is the easiest way of ordering what you want. I was only quibbling over semantics - to order a 'black coffee with milk' is akin to ordering a 'pizza with no anchovies and I'd like that with anchovies if you please'. It's nonsensical, logically speaking.

Besides which, anyone who wants milk/cream/sugar with their coffee is in no position to be sanctimonious about who gets to add those - it's just a question of whether you let someone else ruin the coffee for you or you ruin it yourself. [Wink]

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Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.

Posts: 2372 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Xia
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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I can sympathize with the OP. I can't stand mayonnaise either, and I would be thoroughly disgusted if I found it on my sandwich! I always make sure to say "no mayo" even if the menu information does not say the sandwich has mayo, because I've found that many times with something like a ham and cheese sandwich they will automatically put mayo on it even if they don't warn you of this in the item's description on the menu.

I also can't stand onions. I can't count how many times I've asked for a hamburger with pickles and mustard (usually at one of the burger chains) and had the order-taker write or repeat back "pickles and onions" or "onions and mustard". Luckily I always make them read my order back so I usually catch it. However I have had to go back many many times when they've either given me a regular with-everything burger or just added onions to it... The servers are almost always very nice about fixing the order, though.

The funniest/dumbest order mistake I've gotten though was at McDonald's or Burger King, happened years ago but I still remember it. I wanted a cheeseburger with just cheese. I asked for a plain cheeseburger. When I checked on the way out (I always check since they get it wrong so often) I found out they had given me a plain hamburger! Just a meat patty and a bun. Apparently they thought I just wanted to pay 10 cents extra for my hamburger when I asked for a plain cheeseburger. [Confused]

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Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

Posts: 2110 | From: Chicago, IL | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Delia Darrow
I Saw Three Shipments


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It's 1:00a.m. and you've all got me craving coffee. My DH makes me one cup a day. Very dark freshly ground French Roast coffee, brewed super strong in a French press. He adds 3 tablespoons 45% milkfat cream (you can pile this cream up in the spoon) and a scant 1/4 cup of sugar. It's like drinking hot melted Haagen-Dazs Coffee Ice Cream. On cold days he adds Mexican drinking chocolate. Num num num num num. Five more hours until I can have some. Curse you all for flaunting coffee when I can't have any. I'm vexed!

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Cogito, ergo Dei non est.

Posts: 70 | From: Portland, Oregon | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Archie2K
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Chip and Pin has almost completely usurped signing for goods in the UK, but my company still has signing in some stores, mine included. I would estimate that at least 10% of cards should be rejected because either:
  • The back hasn't ben signed at all. Evidentally these people are completely unaware that a card should still be signed for security purposes
  • The signature has almost completely wiped off
  • The signing strip has been rubbed off leaving a strip of the word VOID*
If the transaction is small (under £100 say), we generally just let it go anyway. You can ask the person for a second signature, check the name, check for other signs of tampering, but no retailer is going to voluntarily turn down 10% of transactions for the chance that 1% of those are fraudulent. However if one more person makes the joke "Oh, it's been so long I've forgotten how to write my own name", or "Still signing?!" or tells me that I'm breaking the law then they get barred on principle. [Razz]

* - I've no idea what people do to destroy their credit cards so much. Mine I've carried it for two years and the signature is still clear and the strip fully intact.

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Vox populi vox canem

Posts: 1985 | From: Reading, England | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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