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Author Topic: Two Phrases that Destroyed American Culture
GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
Let me simplify my point. The system she is using works to her advantage by taking into account both high and low tipping tables and compensating above her actual average. She complaining about something that is all ready over-compensated for in her compensation.



I'm not sure how I see that she is over-compensated. She is paying her tip money to other employees. She isn't being given an extra 15% or 10% by her employer, her employer is requiring her to give out 5% from her tips. Unless you think that the other employees are entitled to more than 1/3 of Esprise Me's expected tips, then I fail to see how letting Esprise Me keep 2/3 of her expected tips makes her overcompensated.

quote:
I get paid a salary regardless of how many hours I work, which is calculated on a 40 hour week. Last week I managed to put in about 16 hours of work, I got paid for 40. Now when I work 42 hours should I be crying about how I'm losing money?
No. But that's not her situation. Your working extra hours is not costing you money that you would have gotten if you hadn't worked those extra hours. A better example would be if you worked 42 hours, but only got paid for 39 hours because one of your customers decided you weren't worth 10 hours, but you still had to pay a subcontractor 3 hours worth of your own pay.

quote:
I would be interested to see how the system should be re-worked to be more fair to her though.

To be fair to her, the system should be based on actual tips she received. But I would guess that some wait staff might underreport their tips. Whether this is to reduce declared income to the IRS or to cheat the other employees out of their cut, the other employees wouldn't get less due to unscupulous wait staff. To prevent that (or to prevent accusations of that), her current system was probably put in place.

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

Posts: 3694 | From: Arizona | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
...To be fair to her, the system should be based on actual tips she received....

In which case she would be paying out more money overall, which has been my point from the begining.

Allow me to temper my words while clarifying. She may be 'losing' money on that table, but the system by which she is losing is still returning an overall gain to her.

--------------------
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

Posts: 12094 | From: Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
...To be fair to her, the system should be based on actual tips she received....

In which case she would be paying out more money overall, which has been my point from the begining.
That would only be the case if her average tips are more than 15%. If her average tips are less than 15% of her sales, then paying 1/3 of her actual tips is better for her than paying 5% of her sales.

quote:
Allow me to temper my words while clarifying. She may be 'losing' money on that table, but the system by which she is losing is still returning an overall gain to her.

But that was never her point. Her point was that waiting on a particular table was costing her money. It doesn't matter if the system is to share tips or pay by percent of sales or even if she is fined by her employer when a customer tips less than 15%. The point is that by her waiting on a customer instead of not waiting on a customer, that customer cost her money. IOW, the rant is not against the system, but a low-tipping customer. While the system is part of the equation, the actual issue is the low paying customer.

It would be like g-you complaining that a bonus put g-you in a new tax bracket and the increased income meant g-your take home pay is less. Pointing out to g-you that a flat-tax would cost g-you even more tax money doesn't help the issue that a supposed good thing (bonus / working more) actually cost g-you more money.

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

Posts: 3694 | From: Arizona | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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She has never stated that her average tips are below 15%. I would have expected that if that were the case she would have said as much. Back in my original post I stated that if that were the case, she should probably talk to management about it.

Again, waiting on that table makes her less money under a system that still returns her more money than the 'right' system you suggested.

Incidentally, your tax anaology doesn't work since changing brackets doesn't change your tax rate on all your income, just the above bracket income.

But to work with your anology. The IRS would have to rule that you have to pay 10% on bonuses, and we're going to assume you make a 5% addition to your salary in bonuses. Then you make bonus equivelents to 6% every month execept Septemeber in which you made 1%. You didn't lose money since you still paid taxes on less money than you made. She's not losing money unless her overall payout is higher than 1/3 of her total tips.

--------------------
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

Posts: 12094 | From: Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Esprise Me
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Have I derailed this thread far enough yet?

GenYus has already said everything I would have said, so I won't repeat it. He is correct about the reason for the system being in place; I know for a fact that many servers, perhaps as many as half, will cheat the bussers and other employees if tipouts are based on total tips, because I saw it happen at my last job. He also correctly surmised that it's not the system I was complaining about so much as the individual frustration of single incidents of having taken on more work and gotten less money as a result. Actually, GenYus, can I hire you to stand in for me when I'm away from the boards for a few days? You can be my ULMB body guard! I'll give you ten percent of my tips. [Wink]

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"If God wrote it, the grammar must be infallible. Perhaps it is we who are mistaken." -MapleLeaf

Posts: 977 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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