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Author Topic: Intilligement Racists
edu-macated
Deck the Malls


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Is there anything more devastating?

Someone who you had admired and enjoyed their intellect. Always on their side in an argument simply because their mindset was so in tune with yours.

Loving their words, listening to their ideas.

Until the time you realise they really should be living in the primordial ooze because they are so incredibly wrong you want slap them so hard their teeth shake.

Then, knowing that nothing you say could make a dent - but wanting to try all the same.

It does suck.

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There is no sense in being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway.

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edu-macated
Deck the Malls


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On the plus side;

Encountering a person who I completely disregarded as 'one of them' who has kicked arse and bucked up.

So made me gobble up my own preconception, and choke down each verb.

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There is no sense in being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway.

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Jay Tea
The "Was on Sale" Song


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Interemesting.

When you say 'kicked arse and bucked up' what exactly do you mean? I've known very few people in my life who've changed their spots in terms of prejudice - at least not more than perhaps re-tracing a few steps or eating a few words...

I knew a guy who was one of the biggest bigots I ever met. Intelligent bloke, but alas not to the point where he realised his pov was fundamentally flawed and that these flaws made him such a nefarious scumbag that he was a local by-word for racism.

He recently married a devout Anglican and moved away. Last I heard he was combining her church and his white supremacy. Great [Roll Eyes]

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This is where I come up with something right? Something really clever...

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edu-macated
Deck the Malls


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Hello you gorgeous Jay!

Back to topic; Meeting a little mouse type person who I thought would have gone along with 'the crowd', actually stand up and state her position.

She braved the wrath of the many, and was so pleased. So was I.

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There is no sense in being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway.

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edu-macated
Deck the Malls


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It just makes me so sad that someone I thought so highly of is so flawed.

To spout such bullshit as he did, is just wrong.

To encourage such dissention is wrong, but mostly, to really think and feel these things is just wrong.

I am tired of the 'it's just my opinion, so it can't be wrong'.

"Yes it can be wrong, because your opinion is so ****ing wrong you psycho it doesn't count."

My dream answer.

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There is no sense in being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway.

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trollface
The Bills of St. Mary's


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So...any chance of some context for these things? Sounds like there's a story or two there, waiting to get out.

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seriously , everyone on here , just trys to give someone crap about something they do !! , its shitting me to tears.

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Doug4.7
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Are there drugs involved here? [Confused]

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And now for something completely different...

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1958Fury
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by trollface:
So...any chance of some context for these things? Sounds like there's a story or two there, waiting to get out.

Or perhaps something not written in iambic pentameter?

Anyway, I know I personally was destroyed to find out my mother was racist. I had always been raised to believe that people are just people, regardless of differences. But when my parents divorced, and my mother started dating the jerk she's married to now, she started making racial slurs... or worse. How the mighty have fallen [Frown]

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I believe I'm growing skeptical of cynicism.
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NaNa
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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quote:


"Yes it can be wrong, because your opinion is so ****ing wrong you psycho it doesn't count."

I love this. This will be my response the next time I get in an argument with my coworker. [Smile]

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"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" -Gandhi

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happyholidaysfrog
Jingle Bell Hock


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I've dealt with something like this. My cousin married a wonderful woman, who has two awsome boys and some fairly racist views on somethings.

I say she has racist views on things, but frankly, I haven't seen her treat or talk about specific people poorly because of the race they were. She and I have had several conversations and her racist views are mostly to do with people of different races marrying and such. But we have come to a place where we agree to disagree, we both know how we feel.

I like being able to give her two sons (7&8) things to think about. Her oldest has said some racist things, and I have talked to him about that in depth. I told him that there are some people out there who might pre-judge him as just a dumb little redneck kid because of his skin color and where he's been born and raised. I asked him if he thought it would be fair of people to do that. He's a smart one, and a thinker, and he said he wouldn't like that and that people shouldn't judge him like that (this is a kid who is in second grade and reads above a sixth grade level) and I emphisized to him that it's not fair to prejudge people, that it's important to judge every person on thier own merits. Because we would not want to be judged like that, we cannot judge others like that.


I think that we each have our own paths and that we learn more from being wrong then from being right. I am ok to agree to disagree as long as I am free to voice my feelings, but honestly it's just a subject that doesn't come often because we've BTDT and nothing has essentially changed.

If I saw her treating people badly or had to listen to her say derogetory things about other races all the time it would be different, but frankly she is respectful that those things bother me.

I'm sorry your friend is causing you so much grief, it is such a shame when smart people believe such stupid things.

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~All we see or seem is but a dream within a dream~
E.A.Poe

Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
~James Dean~

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kingfan1978
Deck the Malls


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I was crushed to hear my mom say something racist. She always raised me to keep an open mind about people, don't judge someone simply based on their race, etc, etc.

Then one day, I was helping her with an online dating profile (she'd been divorced for a while & was looking into the online scene). When we got to the part about what race you're looking for, she said, "White, of course!" I was just dumbfounded...all I could say was, "What?!?!"

When I finally closed my jaw & asked her wtf, her justification for the comment was that she just didn't know if she could date a black man because "it might be weird". She still, to this day, doesn't understand why I called her comment just a tiny bit racist. [Frown]

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"I reject your reality and substitue my own!" - Adam Savage, Mythbusters

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bthyb
WiFi Christmas


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Not quite racism, but I had a friend who was a bit homophobic. I found this out at a comedy club when he made a comment to the comedian on stage who then started heckling him back about being in a gay bathhouse, and my friend escalated things...I walked out.

The very next semester in school he took a course on human sexuality, and he then apologized to me for what happened (he knew I was very offended).

I have hella respect for him for doing that.

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If you say you love ice cream, you better be dreaming of an orgy with Ben, Jerry, and one fine-ass chunky monkey.

-- My sister and poet extraordinaire, Joanna Hoffman

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Soft Hyphen
I Saw Three Shipments


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quote:
Originally posted by kingfan1978:
I was crushed to hear my mom say something racist. She always raised me to keep an open mind about people, don't judge someone simply based on their race, etc, etc.

Then one day, I was helping her with an online dating profile (she'd been divorced for a while & was looking into the online scene). When we got to the part about what race you're looking for, she said, "White, of course!" I was just dumbfounded...all I could say was, "What?!?!"

When I finally closed my jaw & asked her wtf, her justification for the comment was that she just didn't know if she could date a black man because "it might be weird". She still, to this day, doesn't understand why I called her comment just a tiny bit racist. [Frown]

I don't see how it's racist. Would you have the same reaction if she had told you that she didn't want a man who was younger, or more than X years younger than her? Would you consider it ageist if she did?
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BluesScale
Deck the Malls


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Homophobia is a bit puzzling really. I can more or less understand racism because it made some sort of sense to say "This area is my my tribes area with limited food and resources. If you are not in my tribe then you are not welcome here" - although since we are no longer hunter gatherers, that is not longer a meaningful point. However, the threat from gays is that they will... uh... erm... sleep with people who wouldn't want to sleep with you because they are gay too? Because they will compete with you for other members of your own sex? How is that a threat.

People are odd

BluesScale.

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Soft Hyphen
I Saw Three Shipments


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quote:
Originally posted by BluesScale:
Homophobia is a bit puzzling really.

No, it isn't, really. There are plenty of base-instinct-level reasons to dislike homosexuals.

Homosexuals consume resources but refuse to breed, so they will not contribute children.

Homosexuals' behavior is strange/incomprehensible, so possibly dangerous as many strange/incomprehensible things are.

Homosexuals, by not participating in the same activities as the rest of the "tribe" must consider themselves separate from the "tribe."

Those are just off the top of my head; I'm sure there are more.

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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I assume you are talking about way in the past where each child was critical to the success of the tribe and not modern days.

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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happyholidaysfrog
Jingle Bell Hock


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Umm, other then in the world of the swingers, where is sex a tribe thing?

And not all homosexuals don't breed. There are plenty of gay parents out there. Almost every other "tribe" activity homosexuals take part in, they work, they shop, they eat, they socialize, they own pets, they own homes and rent apartments, they take part in every part of life except what they do in the bedroom.

Also there are plenty of hetrosexuals who have chosen not to breed.

And there have been societies in the past that have accepted homosexual behavior as normal so it's not an inbred human thing to ostracize homosexuals. But it is a human thing to ostercize others because they are different.

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~All we see or seem is but a dream within a dream~
E.A.Poe

Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
~James Dean~

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LikeHeyScoob
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Soft Hyphen:
quote:
Originally posted by kingfan1978:
I was crushed to hear my mom say something racist. She always raised me to keep an open mind about people, don't judge someone simply based on their race, etc, etc.

Then one day, I was helping her with an online dating profile (she'd been divorced for a while & was looking into the online scene). When we got to the part about what race you're looking for, she said, "White, of course!" I was just dumbfounded...all I could say was, "What?!?!"

When I finally closed my jaw & asked her wtf, her justification for the comment was that she just didn't know if she could date a black man because "it might be weird". She still, to this day, doesn't understand why I called her comment just a tiny bit racist. [Frown]

I don't see how it's racist. Would you have the same reaction if she had told you that she didn't want a man who was younger, or more than X years younger than her? Would you consider it ageist if she did?
I cannot speak for kingfan, but I think his reaction was more due to the vehemence of his mother's statement ("White, of course!") than her dating preference. If she had simply checked the "White" box, I doubt he would have felt it was racist.

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Support you local community newspaper! CNN.com probably won't be covering your child's spelling bee.

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Soft Hyphen
I Saw Three Shipments


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Was just saying that the "primitive" part of the human brain can easily find reasons to hate homosexuals.

I agree there's no logical basis for it in modern society.

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Soft Hyphen:
Was just saying that the "primitive" part of the human brain can easily find reasons to hate homosexuals.

I agree there's no logical basis for it in modern society.

And since you were responding to BluesScale, who posted about primitive reasons for prejudice, I think your response made perfect sense. Perhaps people would have understood it better if you'd quoted him, but I got the reference.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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Daniceguy
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Originally posted by Soft Hyphen:
Was just saying that the "primitive" part of the human brain can easily find reasons to hate homosexuals.

I agree there's no logical basis for it in modern society.

I disagree. I think it's the more advanced "human" brain that comes up with reasons to hate others.

Many "primitive" social animals, including apes and chimps , engage in homosexual behavior within kin groups.

Homosexual behavior was also not uncommon in early societies, "primitive" or otherwise. This is explored in an interesting book by David Greenberg from the University of Chicago.

So it seems that our "modern" society is the one that has the problem. Maybe we SHOULD start thinking more with our primitive brains!

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"Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes!"

"No it isn't."

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DevilBunny
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No, it isn't, really. There are plenty of base-instinct-level reasons to dislike homosexuals.

I count one. Though it's the big one [Smile]

Homosexuals consume resources but refuse to breed, so they will not contribute children.

This is actually a good thing. Having non-breeding members of the tribe around to help raise the children means more of them reach maturity. There's a theory that the reason the female menopause is so 'early' in relation to the maximum female lifetime is so that the grandmothers can help rear their daughters' grandchildren. And look at eusocial insects such as bees, where most of the 'tribe' are non-breeding.

Homosexuals' behavior is strange/incomprehensible, so possibly dangerous as many strange/incomprehensible things are.

This one, I reckon, is right on the button. It's the exact same reason that having a nonstandard religion or tattoos gets you discriminated against. People band together with people who are like them against people who aren't like them.

Homosexuals, by not participating in the same activities as the rest of the "tribe" must consider themselves separate from the "tribe."

Since when has sex been a social activity?

Homosexuality has been tolerated and even encouraged in many cultures. I think the repugnance many feel for it in the West has been ingrained by our Judaeo-Christian culture, rather than actually being instinctual.

Back to the plot... my boyfriend's a racist. I absolutely detest that aspect of him, and have occasionally considered splitting up with him over it.

He's just got a job that requires him to spend a year in India. Fingers crossed it teaches him something...

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"For God has seven thousand names, and one of them is bastard"

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Mosherette
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by DevilBunny:
No, it isn't, really. There are plenty of base-instinct-level reasons to dislike homosexuals.

I count one. Though it's the big one [Smile]

Care to enlighten me? [Confused]

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Silence should never under any circumstances be construed as agreement. A lot of the time, it's simply a reflection that someone just said something so stupid that no response could possibly do it justice. - Ramblin' Dave

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Zachary Fizz
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
quote:
Originally posted by DevilBunny:
No, it isn't, really. There are plenty of base-instinct-level reasons to dislike homosexuals.

I count one. Though it's the big one [Smile]

Care to enlighten me? [Confused]
It's Canuckistan, isn't it? He's spoiling it for everybody.
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BluesScale
Deck the Malls


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It is the chicken dance combined with obvious good sense. The conflict is destroying my brain. Please, send help urgently.

Devil bunny's point was

Homosexuals' behavior is strange/incomprehensible, so possibly dangerous as many strange/incomprehensible things are.

I am not sure how much I agree though. Is it strange? It doesn't appeal to me personally but it is fairly commonplace, surely. I think that it only becomes strange if the tribe insists that it is bad and must be hidden.

The reason that I keep referring back to tribe is because I agree with Desmond Morris in the Naked Ape. We no longer live tribally to the same extent (although there are still trappings left over) but when it comes to fears and desires, we are more like our ancestors than we care to admit. Also, a lot of things make no sense at all unless you take then to their roots. In biological terms, it makes no difference to society if a pair of women who choose not to reproduce are lesbians or not. The same is so of men, naturally. However, society finds two spinsters living quietly together much easier to accept than a lesbian couple who want to show their dedication to the world. In a wider society, that makes no sense at all to this poor primate.

Blues "like humans do" Scale

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
quote:
Originally posted by DevilBunny:
No, it isn't, really. There are plenty of base-instinct-level reasons to dislike homosexuals.

I count one. Though it's the big one [Smile]

Care to enlighten me? [Confused]
Perhaps DevilBunny is referring to some people's base-instinct-level feeling that homosexuality is "icky."

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Then one day, I was helping her with an online dating profile (she'd been divorced for a while & was looking into the online scene). When we got to the part about what race you're looking for, she said, "White, of course!" I was just dumbfounded...all I could say was, "What?!?!"
That doesn't have to be racist. Not all ethnic groups fluff my wiener. It's not about racism, I have good friends among them, they just don't get me sexually interested.

On the other hand, there are certain visual features that don't work for me either, regardless of ethnicity. I think it's just that we have some ideal partner in our head, and some match it more closely than others.

But, it might just be that I havn't met the right person yet. It wouldn't be the first time I've developed new turn-ons because I've met someone with those features. I used to prefer long women, then I met a hot short woman and suddenly short is the cutest thing in the world. Our preferences are funny that way.

Hey, I'm up for a challenge. If anyone wants to fluff my wiener, go ahead and give it a try. [Smile]

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/Troberg

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Wolf333
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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I can certainly relate to the op. I had two friends; one white and female, the other Puerto Rican and male. Both were highly intelligent, and 99% of the time, I enjoyed their company.
But, that 1% left a bad taste. When you hear, "Well she is pretty, but it's a shame she has that black hair" (meaning "kinky" or "nappy," not the color) or "yeah, they speak Spanish, but they aren't REAL hispanics" (in reference to Mexicans) from people that you normally would respect... it's disconcerting.

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"We take evil really seriously"

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Wolf333
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Originally posted by Troberg:
Hey, I'm up for a challenge. If anyone wants to fluff my wiener, go ahead and give it a try. [Smile]

I wont even attempt to touch that. Warning: NSFBSK link.

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"We take evil really seriously"

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Soft Hyphen
I Saw Three Shipments


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quote:
Originally posted by Daniceguy:
I disagree. I think it's the more advanced "human" brain that comes up with reasons to hate others.

I think it comes up with the rationalizations for what we already feel.

I didn't mean to say that our natural instinct is to hate homosexuals. But we do have instincts that, combined with the right evironment, can lead us to hate homosexuals. Nature and nurture both contribute; that is my point.

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Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Soft Hyphen:
But we do have instincts that, combined with the right evironment, can lead us to hate homosexuals. Nature and nurture both contribute; that is my point.

If what you mean is that we tend to accept definitions of difference and hatred of difference when our peers do and no one points out that it's wrong then I agree. If you mean that it is part of our nature to dislike homosexuals and nurture simply turns that dislike into hatred then I think you're dead wrong. If you mean that people naturally dislike people who are different from themselves and it is nurture that teaches them to hate the different, I seriously doubt it.
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Soft Hyphen
I Saw Three Shipments


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None of the above?

We're predisposed to fear the unfamiliar. What's unfamiliar is what we're not exposed to. If we fear something, we are unlikely to allow ourselves to be exposed to it.

Homophobia is self-perpetuating. Nurture uses nature to reinforce itself.

Reason can break the cycle or reinforce it, depending on how much of it you have. So can peer pressure. And of course, pure, dumb luck plays a big part as well.

Life is complicated. [Smile]

Posts: 78 | From: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Zachary Fizz:
It's Canuckistan, isn't it? He's spoiling it for everybody.

That's not what you were saying last night in my bed! (Why, yes, I do have the maturity of a 12-year-old.)

quote:
Originally posted by BluesScale:
It is the chicken dance combined with obvious good sense. The conflict is destroying my brain. Please, send help urgently.

I'll be right over, big boy! But don't tell Zachary -- he's the jealous type!

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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What? No comment on the call to fluff the wiener?

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

Posts: 3694 | From: Arizona | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Soft Hyphen:
We're predisposed to fear the unfamiliar. What's unfamiliar is what we're not exposed to. If we fear something, we are unlikely to allow ourselves to be exposed to it.

Homophobia is self-perpetuating. Nurture uses nature to reinforce itself.

Reason can break the cycle or reinforce it, depending on how much of it you have. So can peer pressure. And of course, pure, dumb luck plays a big part as well.

I agree with this. Of course, as you said earlier, it's no excuse not to overcome one's prejudices, but it can help explain why they persist.

quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
What? No comment on the call to fluff the wiener?

That would be inappropriate in a public forum.

Besides, after three PMs, I think he's gotten the hint. [Eek!]

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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