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Author Topic: This is NOT appropriate dinner conversation!
ChelleGame
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quote:
Originally posted by Logoboros:
I think his behavior was inappropriate, but I think the "you must keep him away from your children!" cries smack a bit of pedophilia hysteria.

--Logoboros

I disagree. Even aside from the issue of him actually physically abusing her -- which is not a given -- there is the verbal abuse. He is known to find it funny to embarrass females with inappropriate talk. It's quite possible he would find it harmless fun to embarrass his grandaughter, but to a developing young lady it could be very traumatic. The age he would make the comments is the very age where females are most vulnerable to blows to their self-esteem, and looking to find a way to incorporate the changes in their body. Comments from a relative can only mess with her head, not to mention any much older man.

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Nonny Mouse, on Santa's laptop
Once in Royal Circuit City


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If there's serious concern that the girl's grandfather with behave inappropriately around her it's a good idea for the parents to keep him away from her. This is so no matter what the inappropriate behavior entails.

Nonny

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Gale
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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I'd jack the old fart. then I'd tell DH that Daddy isn't invited to your home or to be around your children until he cleans it up. They don't need to learn the lesson that it's ok to be vulgar in public, insulting to strangers, or disrespectful of you. Pedophile, schmedophile; he's a jackass and deserves to be left alone with his miserable self.

ETA: I'm not saying that I would be legally or morally correct to strike the ol' goat. I'm saying that's more than likely what would happen before I could help myself. I wouldn't feel at all badly about it, either.

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tribrats
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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That is exactly how my sexually abusive so-called grandfather talked. He has never been allowed around my kids. I haven't seen him in 11 years and reading the OP brought back a lot of bad memories.

This really needs to be confronted before he takes it to the next level.

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quiltsbypam
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I think no matter what DH said or thought, I'd make sure not to be in the old goat's company again. For anything. I would hope your husband will understand if not agree with it. There's no way I'd subject myself to that kind of abuse.

And FrogFeathers, I'll take a helping of that brain bleach, please.

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vanilla
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by quiltsbypam:
I think no matter what DH said or thought, I'd make sure not to be in the old goat's company again. For anything.

Not for anything?

I don't know...if he wanted to continue talking dirty to me, I'd start charging $2.50 a minute.

[fish]

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quiltsbypam
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by vanilla:
quote:
Originally posted by quiltsbypam:
I think no matter what DH said or thought, I'd make sure not to be in the old goat's company again. For anything.

Not for anything?

I don't know...if he wanted to continue talking dirty to me, I'd start charging $2.50 a minute.

[fish]

Payable strictly in advance, of course.

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"No Biblical hell could ever be worse than the state of perpetual inconsequence." Beatrice in Dangerous Beauty

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mrs.hi-c clown fishies
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quote:
Originally posted by Signora Del Drago:
quote:

Hey, wait a minute! Wouldn't "DH's MIL" be your mother? (DH=dear husband(?), MIL=mother-in-law(?) I get all these abbreviations mixed up.) He managed to cross two lines with one statement there. That would have been enough to cause me to leave immediately, without caring how he got home and without paying the restaurant bill. I need mind bleach.
Oh, NFBSK! I am so sorry--I meant to type that he was talking about my MIL--DH's Mother, asshat's "wife". Of course, with the way he acts, it's no wonder that she doesn't want anything to do with him. When FIL says something that is out of line, DH will just kind of laugh it off and try to change the subject. I said to him last night that he really needs to talk to his father about the language he uses. I was told that I should change my language as well, but he agreed with me. I think. (IMO, letting the F-bomb fly in front of a kid is not nearly as bad as the language FIL used). [flame] BTW, I plan on not swearing in front of the kid once she's out of the womb.

I have heard that behavior such as this could be the sign of a medical condition--if it comes on suddenly. However, this has been going on a while--it's just gotten "louder" over time.

I will be saying something to DH each and everytime this happens from now on...and if I have to cause a nasty scene in a restaurant, I can do that too.

I'll probably be receiving an invoice in my email for brain bleach--sorry to gross so many people out!

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candycane from strangers
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After the scene he was causing in the restaraunt I imagine you making a scene by telling him off would be applauded by the other customers.

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Signora Del Drago
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Well, the fact that he wasn't talking about your Mother made it just a tiny tad better, but he was still way, way out of line. I agree with poisoned candy - you would have been the hero of the other customers if you had caused a scene!

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mommy2many
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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People like him are pigs. I had an uncle who did things like this. He was an alcoholic. As we girls got older (his own included) he would start bribing us to get things for him and when we brought them to him, he would feel our chests and comment about our growing buds and how they were so perfect. Then in teenage years, we all just told him off...When he finally was dying - and in the hospital - NO ONE went to see him for weeks. I finally went, the day before he died. I stayed at the door, not wanting to get too close, as I was leaving he asked me to forgive him for all he had done in his life. I said of course and turned to leave - he said, can I just have a hug, my time is short and noone has been here. I felt guilty, obligated, whatever so I went and hugged him and he pointed to his cheek, so I leaned to kiss him on the cheek. He promptly turned his head and tried to stick his tongue down my throat. EWWW and YUCK. That is my last loving memory of him. My advice? Kieep yourself and your daughter(s) away from him. He needs a good old fashioned b*tch slap!

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Amigone201
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quote:
Originally posted by mrs.hi-c scaredy cat:
I have heard that behavior such as this could be the sign of a medical condition--if it comes on suddenly. However, this has been going on a while--it's just gotten "louder" over time.

Alzheimer's, possibly.

I'd say it might be worth pursuing, but that would require you to spend time with the guy. I would hardly blame you if you'd rather not.

I also, highly doubt that he'd be amenable to any help you'd offer anyway, so your best bet is probably just to stay away from him.

Of course, I'm going to echo advice previously offered. If you must be near him, don't validate his comments. Don't argue, don't fight, and don't make a scene. That's what he wants.

Give one warning, then get up and leave, no further explanation. If he's going to act like a little child, you can treat him like one.

On a sidenote, I don't know if this is good or bad, but this story didn't freak me out like it seems to have other people. Possibly because I work at the student judiciary, or maybe because I work in the Domestic Violence bureau of the DA's office, this isn't the nastiest story I've ever seen. It isn't even the nastiest story I've seen today.

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Amigone201:
On a sidenote, I don't know if this is good or bad, but this story didn't freak me out like it seems to have other people. Possibly because I work at the student judiciary, or maybe because I work in the Domestic Violence bureau of the DA's office, this isn't the nastiest story I've ever seen. It isn't even the nastiest story I've seen today.

Nobody said it was the nastiest story they'd heard. In fact, I think we've all read worse things on this board.

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Amigone201
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
quote:
Originally posted by Amigone201:
On a sidenote, I don't know if this is good or bad, but this story didn't freak me out like it seems to have other people. Possibly because I work at the student judiciary, or maybe because I work in the Domestic Violence bureau of the DA's office, this isn't the nastiest story I've ever seen. It isn't even the nastiest story I've seen today.

Nobody said it was the nastiest story they'd heard. In fact, I think we've all read worse things on this board.
Well, then, please ignore my threadjack and continue.

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LeaflessMapleTree
The twelve shopping days 'til Christmas


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quote:
Originally posted by mommy2many:
People like him are pigs. I had an uncle who did things like this. He was an alcoholic. As we girls got older (his own included) he would start bribing us to get things for him and when we brought them to him, he would feel our chests and comment about our growing buds and how they were so perfect. Then in teenage years, we all just told him off...When he finally was dying - and in the hospital - NO ONE went to see him for weeks. I finally went, the day before he died. I stayed at the door, not wanting to get too close, as I was leaving he asked me to forgive him for all he had done in his life. I said of course and turned to leave - he said, can I just have a hug, my time is short and noone has been here. I felt guilty, obligated, whatever so I went and hugged him and he pointed to his cheek, so I leaned to kiss him on the cheek. He promptly turned his head and tried to stick his tongue down my throat. EWWW and YUCK. That is my last loving memory of him. My advice? Kieep yourself and your daughter(s) away from him. He needs a good old fashioned b*tch slap!

That is just flat out sick. To pull something like that on your deathbed under the pretense of asking for forgiveness??? I certainly would have stayed far away from the funeral... [Eek!]

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Eddylizard
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MapleLeaf, you have expressed my feelings concernings mommy2many's post much better than I could have. And the teenage part of the post leaves me feeling...ill for want of a better word.

mommy2many, I hope you have managed to move on a bit from this. Sorry, that's a bit trite I know.

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SlowThinker
Bone Appétit!


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I would echo the people who said he should see a physician, one of the first symptoms of dementia is inappropriate behaviour. You have to take each case in context though, you say he's becoming louder and this is getting worse, this sounds inappropriate for him, for anyone else I'd call it downright ignorant. My grandmother who's 93 has vascular dementia, I look after her part of the week with my mother and the first symptom that we remember, was inappropriate behaviour in public. Nothing on that scale of course, but audible comments about other people, that kind of thing. It would certainly be something I'd have investigated though, just to be sure.
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jessboo
The First USA Noel


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Dementia? Isn't he in his 50s? He's just a perv!

Hi-C, did you say to your husband that the language was inappropriate, or that his comments were? Because 'language' to me means that he was effing and blinding- and that's not nearly as offensive as talking about his (unborn?) granddaughter's boobs. Your husband really needs to have words with him.

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SlowThinker
Bone Appétit!


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It's possible to begin with dementia at any age, including when you're young but most professionals now think that there are early warning signs to look out for. I'm not saying it definitely is dementia, just that it's a possibility as he's getting worse. From my own example, my grandmother has had quite bad dementia for the last 3/4 years but I can remember the early signs of it at least 15 years ago and my mother can bring to mind signs of it from over 20 years ago. Also bear in mind there are many forms of it, alzheimers being the best known but each have their own characteristics.
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Nonny Mouse, on Santa's laptop
Once in Royal Circuit City


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quote:
Originally posted by jessBOO:
Dementia? Isn't he in his 50s? He's just a perv!

Being in his 50's is no guarantee he doesn't have dementia.

Early onset Alzheimer's.

Nonny

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When there isn't anything else worth analyzing, we examine our collective navel. I found thirty-six cents in change in mine the other day. Let no one say that there is no profit in philosophy. -- Silas Sparkhammer

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by jessBOO:
Dementia? Isn't he in his 50s? He's just a perv!

A man I went to college with has been institutionalized for several years due to severe dementia. He was in his 30's when the symptoms began and required full-time care by the time he was 40.

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jw
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Salamander:
As Christie said, unless you are hanging on for a pretty sizeable inheritence, I don't see that putting up with his behaviour & attitude is required (and certainly not healthy under any circumstance).

Why should the carrot of a sizeable inheritance have anything to do with letting this obnoxious man be part of future family gatherings?
And ditto other comments. DH needs to put his dad straight about how to behave around you and future GK's, or else find himself excluded, inheritance or not.

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unklesamta
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I know I am just echoing what others have said, but seriously if everything you have said in the OP is true (not doubting it, just being clear) then

1. Your husband needs to grow some. he needs to put his father in check, once. After that no more chances.

2. You need to make it clear you will not accept anyuthing of the like ever again. No chance at a 1st chance. Period. And stick to your guns.

No to be a jerk, but if you don't do those things, then you have no real complaint, because you are choosing to accept said behavior.

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PallasAthena
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quote:
I said to him last night that he really needs to talk to his father about the language he uses. I was told that I should change my language as well, but he agreed with me. I think. (IMO, letting the F-bomb fly in front of a kid is not nearly as bad as the language FIL used). BTW, I plan on not swearing in front of the kid once she's out of the womb.
Okay, these comments really bothered me for some reason mrs. hi-c. Your husband did a neat job of turning the situation back around on you. Your use of the f-word is not the issue. That should not have been open for discussion. Your FIL was being abusive and sexually harrassing you and the people around you. Not to mention the comment about your daugher! [Eek!] It was incredibly inappropriate for your husband to bring that up, and a nice (sarcastic nice) way to shift blame to the victim.

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ThistleSoftware
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I don't think causing a big ugly scene in public would be effective. This man is trying to get a rise out of you. Getting angry will just give him exactly what he wants, thereby rewarding his awful behavior. Dealing with bullies of this type can be very tricky, but I recommend maintaining your composure and telling him very calmly that he is being inappropriate. If you make any threats, such as "if you say anything pervy I will leave," follow through without any waffling. He needs to be taught that even if your husband is willing to put up with his behavior, you are not.

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Christie
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quote:
Originally posted by jwhoo:
quote:
Originally posted by Salamander:
As Christie said, unless you are hanging on for a pretty sizeable inheritence, I don't see that putting up with his behaviour & attitude is required (and certainly not healthy under any circumstance).

Why should the carrot of a sizeable inheritance have anything to do with letting this obnoxious man be part of future family gatherings?
And ditto other comments. DH needs to put his dad straight about how to behave around you and future GK's, or else find himself excluded, inheritance or not.

I can't speak for Sal, but for me that is the only explanation I can come up with as to why anyone not related to a bastard like that would put up with his crap. Sure, for awhile you go along with stuff just to keep the family peace (been there, so done that), but there comes a point where you have to say "enough is enough" - I contend that for some people that point may be delayed if there is a pay-off for them. Otherwise, why?

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moonfall86
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My mom said one of her uncles used to say she was "built like a brick shithouse". I believe this was the same uncle who used to peek at my grandma and her sister while they changed clothes. I'm glad I never met this particular relative (he died before I was born).

Ew. Comments like that about relatives are inappropriate and creepy. Was he trying to brag about his wife's boobs? Either way, talking about a granddaughter in that context is icky.

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I'm 20th Century Fox
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Unfortunately, I know of the kind of men who think that kind of talk is perfectly OK. When I was 19 and newly married (and pregnant), my then-husband and I visited his relatives in South Carolina. With me present, my ex-husband, his mom, his dad, and the aunt and uncle, the uncle said (of my chest - I'm big-breasted) that "More than a handful is a waste". Everyone else laughed but I was very embarrassed. His father would also make similar comments so he (the ex) grew up around such behavior, but that scene with the uncle is the one I most remember.

They think they're very witty - I think it's a form of bullying and domination and is wrong, wrong, wrong.

You have my sympathies, mrs. hi-c and I hope you can avoid this jerk as much as possible.

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Neffti Noel
We Three Blings


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To speak up for the DH here, if he has grown up with this behaviour from his father, it's going to be a monster for DH to tackle. Feeling uncomfortable about an in-law's sexual innuendo is one thing, but it must be tough for DH who possibly has grown up dealing with this kind of sexualised talk and may have a lot of shame and confusion going back to infancy around the subject.

I sympathise, but I fear that although it would be sensible to ask DH to have a word with his father, and in a perfect world he should side with you and come to your defence, it may currently be unthinkable for him. If his Dad's attitude to sex has always been so outwardly provocative, telling him now will be hard. I know I'd find it very hard to tackle a parent about something like this without it stirring up a whole wasps' nest. That of course can be a good thing and a way forward, but very difficult to go into on purpose.

On the subject of his comments regarding your daughter, they are worrying and were I you I would not be leaving this man with my daughter - not because of fears of sexual abuse (although I would have them), but because of solid evidence that he is unable to adapt his conversation to present company.

He sounds like a bully, and I think you should tackle him with as calm a head as possible and a zero-tolerance approach. "That's not something I want to hear about," and if he persists, followed by thanking everyone else for a nice evening and leaving, would be my approach. You have to combine not letting him see that he has upset you, with stating your boundaries. A tricky one, but not impossible. Good luck.

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moonfall86
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Is he doing this because he thinks it's funny? My grandfather thinks it's amusing to say and do things to intentionally aggravate people. They're not usually sexual, but he can still be pretty insulting. (Sometimes, though, I'm not sure if he's being intentionally obnoxious or just ignorant. He's been known to audibly say the word "chink" in Chinese restaraunts.)

Whatever the reason, it's still not acceptable.

Posts: 885 | From: Florida | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
SlowThinker
Bone Appétit!


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quote:
Originally posted by moonfall86:
Is he doing this because he thinks it's funny? My grandfather thinks it's amusing to say and do things to intentionally aggravate people. They're not usually sexual, but he can still be pretty insulting. (Sometimes, though, I'm not sure if he's being intentionally obnoxious or just ignorant. He's been known to audibly say the word "chink" in Chinese restaraunts.)

Whatever the reason, it's still not acceptable.

Slightly OT but when I was young, about 16 I went to my Mothers office Christmas meal (my mother owned the company and I worked there part time). Behind our table was a family of Asians, and as one of mums employees got steadily more drunk he started telling "Paki jokes" rather loudly. As he got more and more drunk he got more and more insulting, it was possibly the most embarassing thing I've ever experienced. Eventually it took about 3 people to shut him up, needless to say he didn't last much longer in the company.
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moonfall86
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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I'm scared to have my grandfather come visit. I have some black, Hispanic, and Asian roommates, and I'm a little afraid of what he might say to them or within hearing distance.
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Red Squirrel
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by tribrats no tricks, all treats:
That is exactly how my sexually abusive so-called grandfather talked. He has never been allowed around my kids. I haven't seen him in 11 years and reading the OP brought back a lot of bad memories.

I worked for a bit in Child Protection as a case administrator for a year and the amount of abuse that was reported (often years later) regarding a close or extended family member was staggering (brothers (usually a bit older), grandads and related by blood uncles popped up in the files very steadily). People just don't want to believe that a family member may molest a child- it seems a very common misconception that abuse at home is always due to a wicked stepfather, mother's boyfriend or uncle by marriage.

There's a few people on this thread saying that others are jumping too quickly to say that this man may be a paedophile (possibly because the naysayers imagine the media friendly image of child molesters as men in grimy overcoats who lurk twitching round school gates with bags of sweets). Sadly a huge amount of sex abuse happens in the family and I think the behaviour in the OP gives reason enough not to trust this old man on his own around any children or vulnerable adults.

He may not be an abuser but he seems to be showing far more signs of motivation to abuse someone (objectifiying women/girls, delierately trying to upset someone, not caring who hears his views, self centred) than many people who are proved to be abusers.

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Amigone201
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by moonfall86:
I'm scared to have my grandfather come visit. I have some black, Hispanic, and Asian roommates, and I'm a little afraid of what he might say to them or within hearing distance.

Slight threadjack here, (again) but how close are all of you? If your grandfather ever did have to come visit, you could warn them about the fact that he was a racist (and possibly an outspoken one), to make sure everyone was ready.

Then when he showed up and started making racist jokes or comments, you roommates could all just sit back and laugh, knowing that he's embarrassing no one but himself.

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