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Llewtrah
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Recent language discussions on here reminded me of some other irritations. Excuse me for a few moments while I rant/ramble (Rantble? Can we have that as a word please?)

I hate the misuse of "of" in place of "have" i.e. "would of", "could of" in stead of "would've", "could've" ("would have", "could have"). I refer to its use in written English by native English speakers who should know better. Over here, the current emphasis on pupils being able to "express themselves", at the expense of spelling and grammar, has led to a generation of pidgin English speakers/spellers and TXT MSG spellers. I see this all the time at work and in emails I get in response to web articles.

Their spoken English is an incoherent collection of "know wha'I mean?", "cool" and "like".

"Like" is much abused. "It's, like, green" said one teen when describing grass. In what way is it like green? Is it a shade of yellow that is not quite green? Is it a shade of blue?

Aaagh!

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Mosherette
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Incorrect use of the reflexive bugs me no end. I used to have a boss who could not use a pronoun without turning it into myself, yourself etc. "Can you let myself have that report by 5pm?"

[Mad]

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Tarquin Farquart
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Llewtrah:
I see this all the time at work and in emails I get in response to web articles.

Similar but related: people who have excellent spelling and grammar skills seem to abandon them when writing an email. I see this a lot with email queries at work.

Would you write a letter comprising of two lines one entirely in capitals?

Of course not. But it's only email so people do it.

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Lainie
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Not only do I hate reading emails that are poorly and carelessly written, I'm convinced that they ultimately degrade the writer's skills in other media, as well.

Misuse of the reflexive also annoys me, as does using "I" when "me" is appropriate. "Just between you and I," for example.

I had a boss who used to say, when discussing work, "Keep me appraised!" I was tempted to do exactly that, but my estimate of his worth would probably have gotten me fired.

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Llewtrah
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While looking through my file of linguistic hates (in case I ever get to write another opinion article) I also found my list of words that triggered an American colleagues email filter to bounce my emails. Apparently I can no longer refer to a "thorny issue" because "horny" inappropriate business language. Nor may anyone in the minutes of a meeting be called "Cockerell".

But I digress. "It's" when "its" should be used is always a pet peeve, but its prevalence now makes me pause when I write "its". Aaagh. I've also seen "her's", "Your's" and "their's" , but not "hi's".

Disclaimer:
I freely admit that I am not linguistically perfect and that I am biased in favour of British English. Furthermore, like almost everyone else (except Dara, who is, of course, perfect ("Praise Dara, Love Dara")), I have affectations including "wack," "yummers" and "pish-posh" thanks to Mr Farquart. I also have a tendency to say "indeed" when I mean "yes" (or when I do not need to say anything at all, but I feel the need to fill an awkward pause in conversation) and to say "thank you kindly" due to watching Due South far too often.

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Tarquin Farquart
The First USA Noel


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We had a few thorny issues around Cockerall to bash out in our recent meeting in Scunthorpe. [Wink]

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Llewtrah
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quote:
Originally posted by Tarquin Farquart:
quote:
Originally posted by Llewtrah:
I see this all the time at work and in emails I get in response to web articles.

Similar but related: people who have excellent spelling and grammar skills seem to abandon them when writing an email. I see this a lot with email queries at work.

Would you write a letter comprising of two lines one entirely in capitals?

That's another one! "Comprising of" when the usages are "is comprised of x, y and z" or "comprising x, y and z". That earns you a severe telling off Farquart Minor. Report to the Head Girl's room at once. I can be pretty anal about such things - grr, another colloquialism I shouldn't use! Perhaps I "obsess about it" too much (when I mean "I am obsessed with it" or "I have an obsession about it".)

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Mosherette
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Llewtrah:
But I digress. "It's" when "its" should be used is always a pet peeve, but its prevalence now makes me pause when I write "its". Aaagh. I've also seen "her's", "Your's" and "their's" , but not "hi's".

I saw ladie's recently, referring to an item belonging to a single lady [Eek!]

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LittleDuck
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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You're and your; they're, there, and their; me used where I should be and vice versa.

Add to those any time someone uses internet abbreviations for anything. Can the next generation even spell these days? Before the internet I think the only one who couldn't was Prince (author of such classics as, "Nothing Compares to U").

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tealstar
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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In addition to the usual apostrophe and homonym issues, I don't like seeing the plural form of words used where the singular would be required(e.g. media, phenomena, criteria). I actually had an English professor do this.

Besides, criterion is such a fun word to say [Big Grin]

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MissElaineous
Bone Appétit!


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This is my biggest pet peeve regarding email, dwarfing even spam and glurge. Are words such as "you", "any", "for", "to", etc. so hard to write out in an email? I've dabbled in online dating and cannot believe the number of messages I received that said "ur cool,wnt 2 meet?" Yeah, that's very attractive . . .

I can understand text messaging to an extent; most times someone is in a hurry and dealing with a tiny keypad. I still try to spell, capitalise, and punctuate properly, but I'm more forgiving in this medium. However, when dealing with email where you should have the time and a full size keyboard, there's just no excuse for not taking a few extra seconds to write normally.

I stumbled (metaphorically) over these two quotes that sum up my feelings to those who can't bother to use a keyboard properly:

"Speech is a mirror of the soul: as a man speaks, so is he." --- Publilius Syrus

"Where the speech is corrupted, the mind is also."
--- Seneca

Miss "Yes, I minored in Classics" Elaineous

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Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
I had a boss who used to say, when discussing work, "Keep me appraised!"

"I'm sorry sir, but both slavery and prostitution are illegal here."

A couple that really grate me: free gift and straight line (are there any other kinds?).

Misuse of "begging the question": I'm aware it's a lost cause, but I shall fight it to the death! Preferably someone else's.

And, finally (for now): chaise longue. It is not pronounced "chase lounge." Please stop doing so.

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Llewtrah
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Indeed.

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Llewtrah
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by MissElaineous:
This is my biggest pet peeve regarding email, dwarfing even spam and glurge. Are words such as "you", "any", "for", "to", etc. so hard to write out in an email? I've dabbled in online dating and cannot believe the number of messages I received that said "ur cool,wnt 2 meet?" Yeah, that's very attractive . .

At least it was better than A/S/L. The latter is short, sweet and to the point, and tells me everything I need to know about the person i.e. "Enquirer is simply looking for quick leg-over."

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Tarquin Farquart
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Llewtrah:
quote:
Originally posted by Tarquin Farquart:
quote:
Originally posted by Llewtrah:
I see this all the time at work and in emails I get in response to web articles.

Similar but related: people who have excellent spelling and grammar skills seem to abandon them when writing an email. I see this a lot with email queries at work.

Would you write a letter comprising of two lines one entirely in capitals?

That's another one! "Comprising of" when the usages are "is comprised of x, y and z" or "comprising x, y and z". That earns you a severe telling off Farquart Minor. Report to the Head Girl's room at once. I can be pretty anal about such things - grr, another colloquialism I shouldn't use! Perhaps I "obsess about it" too much (when I mean "I am obsessed with it" or "I have an obsession about it".)
Oops. Well it was inevitable someone made a spelling/grammar error in this thread. May as well have been me to do it.

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Llewtrah
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Tarquin Farquart:
quote:
Originally posted by Llewtrah:
quote:
Originally posted by Tarquin Farquart:
quote:
Originally posted by Llewtrah:
I see this all the time at work and in emails I get in response to web articles.

Similar but related: people who have excellent spelling and grammar skills seem to abandon them when writing an email. I see this a lot with email queries at work.

Would you write a letter comprising of two lines one entirely in capitals?

That's another one! "Comprising of" when the usages are "is comprised of x, y and z" or "comprising x, y and z". That earns you a severe telling off Farquart Minor. Report to the Head Girl's room at once. I can be pretty anal about such things - grr, another colloquialism I shouldn't use! Perhaps I "obsess about it" too much (when I mean "I am obsessed with it" or "I have an obsession about it".)
Oops. Well it was inevitable someone made a spelling/grammar error in this thread. May as well have been me to do it.
That's why I added my disclaimer about not being perfect [Wink] Now, about your appointment with the Head Girl .... [Big Grin]

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Friends of Alfred
The First USA Noel


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"off of", as in "there goes that actor off of Eastenders". Drives me nuts.

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FrogFeathers
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Around here, instead of saying: "me too" in response- such as: "I hate the hot weather." response: "Oh, me too!" they say, "Oh, so don't I!"

Makes me cringe.

"Off of" just made me cringe too. [lol] You know that actor from Eastenders...

Forgive me, I'm especially cranky after dealing with idiot drivers on the way to school today.

And I completely screw up the "it's" and "its" all the time. I finally gave up and use "its" most of the time. If someone would please remind me of the proper usage, I'd appreciate it. And if anyone can remember it in that elementary school way of explaining it (you know, "i before e, except after c..." etc) I'd appreciate it even more. [Wink]

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ghijkmnop
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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From a post I made on another forum on this subject:

Here are my "things:"

captalize the words that should be, including the word i. Do your best to spell your words properly, understand what homonyms are, and try to no witch won too use. Otherwise, I might loose my patience. Please use actual words ir-regardless of whether U R seriously looking 2 annoy us old folks. Please punctuate your sentences and word's properly its really tough to understand writing when there are no sentence divider's as an asthmatic I feel like I am losing my breath Please understand what purpose paragraphs serve.

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Mosherette
Deck the Malls


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"The female of the species is more deadlier than the male" - now I really like that song but I can't bear to listen to it for that line alone.

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unklesamta
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So I fully expect to get flamed here, so go at it, but beside the its extreme over use, I think like is perfectly acceptable to use when you mean similar. Not when you should just close your lips and say nothing, please don't revert to "uh like uh she was like a jerk uh you know?"

Now what I hate is irreprehensible (sp) to mean reprehensible. It means the same thing...it was bad, very bad. Now irregardless just makes the skin crawl right off my body. It's regadless, to disregard.

Ok breathing better now, thanks.

Edit: spelling as usual.

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Tarquin Farquart
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
"The female of the species is more deadlier than the male" - now I really like that song but I can't bear to listen to it for that line alone.

The line itself or the way it is sung?

If it's the way it's sung, I'd have to confess to being creeped out with the way "Groovy" is sung in Wild Thing.

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unklesamta
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Spanked on the ir-thing...dang.

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The less you know, the more you believe. -Bono

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Lady Moon
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What continually shocks me -- I'm a Southerner moved North -- is how my normal speech pattern keeps shocking people.

I startled a good friend of mine in a showering discussion when I asked her if she showered of a morning or of a night. She had never heard of the 'of a' construction meaning 'in the'. But I grew up hearing it.

All that just to wonder aloud -- so to speak -- if some of the linguistic anomalies here aren't merely cultural differences?

And if not, my sincere apologies and go ahead and thwack.

Lady "anticipating a fish" Moon

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Mosherette
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Tarquin Farquart:
quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
"The female of the species is more deadlier than the male" - now I really like that song but I can't bear to listen to it for that line alone.

The line itself or the way it is sung?

If it's the way it's sung, I'd have to confess to being creeped out with the way "Groovy" is sung in Wild Thing.

The line itself: specifically, "more deadlier".

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Silence should never under any circumstances be construed as agreement. A lot of the time, it's simply a reflection that someone just said something so stupid that no response could possibly do it justice. - Ramblin' Dave

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Gibbie
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Canuckistan seeths:
quote:
And, finally (for now): chaise longue. It is not pronounced "chase lounge." Please stop doing so.
You read the whole definition you quoted right? The part where it said that "lounge" was a folk etymology? This site dates the usage back to the 1850's. It also states:
quote:
The original form, chaise longue, is French, meaning “long chair”. Though the chaise lounge form is a classic example of folk etymology’s changing an odd foreign word into something more meaningful, in one way it’s hard to criticise—it is, after all, a seat that one lounges on.
I think it's a perfect example of the way language changes and mutates over time.

I pronounced it "chase" when I was a child until I learned it should be "shez" but I didn't even know it was spelled "longue" until a year or so ago. Heck, we mostly just called those things "lounge chairs." [Smile]

Gibbie

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Bonnie
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Moon:
What continually shocks me -- I'm a Southerner moved North -- is how my normal speech pattern keeps shocking people.

I startled a good friend of mine in a showering discussion when I asked her if she showered of a morning or of a night. She had never heard of the 'of a' construction meaning 'in the'. But I grew up hearing it.

Interesting. Whereabouts in the South did you grow up?

-- Bonnie

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Llewtrah
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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One of the colloquialisms I picked up is the use of "but" at the end of a sentence instead of "though".

For example:

"I don't know but" for "I don't know though"

I'm not sure where this use of "but" originated. I picked it up during childhood from friends living on the Essex coast. As I never heard any of their neighbours using "but" in this way, it's possible my friends had picked it up while living in Australia and New Zealand. Their family were close to be "of no fixed abode" and most of the children were conceived on the long sea voyages between Britain and Australia (older children born in Aus then an age gap of 10 years and younger children born in Britain). Apparently there isn't much else to do when you're on a ship for that long!

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Canuckistan
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quote:
I think it's a perfect example of the way language changes and mutates over time.
And I think it's just lazy people trying to justify their own illiteracy. [Razz]

Okay, I don't really think that. But "beg the question" has changed over time, too. And I don't like that one, either. It just grates me.

I shall tilt at these windmills until I can tilt no more! But chase lounge will always be wrong to these ears.

quote:
Heck, we mostly just called those things "lounge chairs."
Works for me. We won't have to go to war after all, Gibbie. [Smile]

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Mickey is a Hanukkah Bush
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F_F, "it's" is a contraction of "it is", "its" is possessive, like "His", "hers", "theirs".

One of my huge munchkins is people that say "irregardless." "Irregardless" is not a word! If it were a real word, it would mean "without disregard". You may as well say "regard" then.

Reason for underlining "were": did I use it correctly? I'd always thought "were" was plural, but say "if it was a real word..." sounds weird to me.

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My mom, about my nervousness with Jeopardy!: "Don't worry about it. Just get drunk and you'll do fine."
Blog Just call me Mickey 2

Posts: 3295 | From: Radford, VA/Herndon, VA/Orlando, FL | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Llewtrah
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quote:
Originally posted by Canuckistan:
quote:
I think it's a perfect example of the way language changes and mutates over time.
And I think it's just lazy people trying to justify their own illiteracy. [Razz]

Okay, I don't really think that. But "beg the question" has changed over time, too. And I don't like that one, either. It just grates me.

I shall tilt at these windmills until I can tilt no more! But chase lounge will always be wrong to these ears.

quote:
Heck, we mostly just called those things "lounge chairs."
Works for me. We won't have to go to war after all, Gibbie. [Smile]

I note that you are posting from Toronto. Does the mispronunciation/misspelling of "chaise longue" grate due to your awareness of French?

I enjoyed holidaying in Canada In Quebec and Montreal I could converse in (rusty) French without my former husband being able to understand what I was saying about him [Big Grin]

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Mickey is a Hanukkah Bush
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How is "chaise" pronounced? I've always pronounced it "shayz" (for lack of better phonetic spelling)

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My mom, about my nervousness with Jeopardy!: "Don't worry about it. Just get drunk and you'll do fine."
Blog Just call me Mickey 2

Posts: 3295 | From: Radford, VA/Herndon, VA/Orlando, FL | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Llewtrah
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Mickey is a ghoul:
If it were ... Reason for underlining "were": did I use it correctly? I'd always thought "were" was plural, but say "if it was a real word..." sounds weird to me.

"If it were" - the correct form of the past subjunctive.

quote:
In informal writing both if and whether are standard in their use to introduce a clause indicating uncertainty after a verb such as ask, doubt, know, learn, or see: We shall soon learn whether (or if) it is true. In such contexts, however, the use of if can sometimes create ambiguities. Depending on the intended meaning, the sentence Let her know if she is invited might be better paraphrased as Let her know whether she is invited or If she is invited, let her know. ·In conditional sentences the clause introduced by if may contain either a past subjunctive verb (if I were going) or an indicative verb (if I am going; if I was going), depending on the intended meaning. According to the traditional rule, the subjunctive should be used to describe an occurrence that is presupposed to be contrary to fact, as in if I were ten years younger or if Napoleon had won at Waterloo. The main verb of such a sentence must then contain the modal verb would or (less frequently) should: If America were still a British colony, we would have an anthem that human voices could sing. If I were the President, I should (or would) declare November 1 a national holiday. When the situation described by the if clause is not presupposed to be false, however, that clause must contain an indicative verb, and the choice of verb in the main clause will depend on the intended meaning: If Hamlet was really written by Marlowe, as many have argued, then we have underestimated Marlowe's genius. If Kevin was out all day, then it makes sense that he couldn't answer the phone. Note also that the presence of the modal verb would in the main clause should not be taken as a sign that the verb in the if clause must be in the subjunctive, if the content of that clause is not presupposed to be false: If there is anything I can do to help, I should be happy to do so. He would always call her from the office if he was (not were) going to be late for dinner. ·Again according to the traditional rule, the subjunctive is not correctly used following verbs such as ask or wonder in if clauses that express indirect questions, even if the content of the question is presumed to be contrary to fact: We wondered if dinner was (not were) included in the room price. Some of the people we met even asked us if California was (not were) an island. ·With all deference to the traditional rules governing the use of the subjunctive, it should be noted that a survey of the prose of reputable writers over the past 200 years would reveal a persistent tendency to use the indicative was where the traditional rule would require the subjunctive were. A sentence beginning If I was the only boy in the world, while not strictly correct, is wholly unremarkable. But the corresponding practice of using the subjunctive in place of the indicative may be labeled a hypercorrection. ·In spoken English there is a growing tendency to use would have in place of the subjunctive in contrary-to-fact clauses, as in if I would have been the President, but this usage is still widely considered incorrect.
(From dictionary.com's page on "if")

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Posts: 2040 | From: Chelmsford, Essex, England | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
I note that you are posting from Toronto. Does the mispronunciation/misspelling of "chaise longue" grate due to your awareness of French?
Not really. My French is probably as rusty as yours, Llewtrah (although I am taking classes, and hopefully that'll change).

Upon thinking about it, I'm sure that the little French I have is a small element in the grating, but only that. Some things just grate you for no particular reason; I suspect that this is one of those things. It looks like chaise longue; lounge is pronounced completely differently. For me, if you're going to say lounge, spell it as such. YMMV, of course.

ETA: My knowledge of Spanish, however, might play a roll in this. Makes me sensitive to proper pronunciation of words in and from other languages, even if I don't always get it right.

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Methuselah
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Tarquin Farquart:
quote:
Originally posted by Llewtrah:
I see this all the time at work and in emails I get in response to web articles.

Similar but related: people who have excellent spelling and grammar skills seem to abandon them when writing an email. I see this a lot with email queries at work.

Would you write a letter comprising of two lines one entirely in capitals?

Of course not. But it's only email so people do it.

I was reviewing proposals from landscape contractors for a significant project. One of the proposals was sent to me as an attachment via e-mail. The accompanying message was rife with poor grammar, capitalization, and punctuation ('txt msg' style structure). I precluded his proposal from further consideration. If he wasn't professional enough to compose a proper business e-mail, he wasn't professional enough to earn our business.

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"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." - G.K. Chesterton

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