Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
posted
quote:Originally posted by Roadie: I can't explain it, other than that's when the sperms hit the eggs 18.75 years prior to our 18th birthdays.
Alot of families have clumped birthdays. I think it has something to do with a "favorite" time of year. Say one family has 3 kids all born in late April early May. Whaddyaknow Mom and Dad have always gone on a waterskiing trip in July.
-------------------- I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.
quote:Originally posted by Rhiandmoi: I think she should try to get into as many of these programs as she qualifies for at the same time trying to find a job that she is qualified for that will pay a decent wage, because without some help she could very easily become trapped in a min wage hell for a lifetime.
But can't one easily get trapped in a welfare program, too? I mean, if she has the willpower and motivation to use her time on assistance to get herself on her feet, that's one thing. But I guess I kind of view welfare as a last resort. She very well may find that she needs it, and if so, fine, that's what it's there for. But to not even try to explore her options for work, school, or technical training first seems premature. YMMV.
-------------------- The technical term is narcissism. You can't believe everything is your fault unless you also believe you're all powerful.--House Posts: 2684 | From: Budapest | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by onein6billion: Bull. My roommate and both of his brother were promptly shown the door by their parents when they turned 18 because "you're an adult now, so go be an adult." No drug abuse, no behavioral problems (other than your typical teen angst), nothing. Just because you don't think it happens doesn't mean that it doesn't.
Still in high school on that day? Attending college? Working? Were they triplets? If all 3 brothers were turned out on their 18th birthdays, then at least some of them were college seniors enrolled in high school, right? Must have been awkward for the pre-18 brothers to be attending school with the kicked out 18 year old. Or are you twisting the facts of the story to make it fit?
Errata, it seems to me as if you are taking Oi6B's statement to mean that all three of these siblings were kicked out on the exact same day (hence, your "triplets" question). I took it to mean that as each turned 18, and that may be 2, 3 or 5 years apart, that they were kicked out. Honestly, I think you are really making too much of what seems to me to be a misinterpretation on your part.
And out of 4 kids in my family, one never graduated HS (had he, he would have been 17), 2 of us graduated at 17, and one of us graduated at 17 because she skipped a grade - otherwise she would have been 18. Which belies, anectodally, this:
quote:And this is why you aren't trustworthy here. Did they all skip a year? Most people in the US graduate from high school after their 18th birthday. For two of these three kids to be in college at age 17, and the third to have graduated, is highly unlikely. For it to happen once could be a lucky birthday. Three out of three demands an explanation.
I can't explain it, other than that's when the sperms hit the eggs 18.75 years prior to our 18th birthdays.
I'm sorry, but you're not much of a reader. Its quite clear from my comments that I wasn't assuming they all were kicked out at once, but rather that they were kicked out on their 18th birthdays like he said. The triplets question was a preemptive attempt to explain why each of them had a lucky birthday. One coincidence is a coincidence, but three coincidences in a row is not.
There is a difference between graduating high school at 17 and going to college at 17. In many states, the cutoff birthday occurs at the end of summer, so people born in the summer will graduate high school at 17, but go to college at 18. The measurable facts are that a very small minority of students begin college at 17. A significantly larger fraction graduate high school at 17. So your anecdotes have no relevance. I myself graduated high school at 17, but started college at 18. Because of the cutoff date for kindergarten in my state (turning 5 by the start of school), you would have had to skip a grade or go to an unusual private school to start college before 18, but its not at all uncommon to graduate high school at 17. And the statistics back up that that is the norm.
Posts: 2018 | From: Santa Barbara, California | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Sara at home: Let me explain my point to you. My point is that you don't know how tough parenting is until you have to do it. Day in and day out for years. Through good times and bad times.
Some of us realize that, Sara, and have, therefore, chosen to not have children.
Which then gets turned against us for being "selfish" because we are unwilling to make sacrifices.
Yes, ya'll who have raised kids have had some experience, and a perspective we do not. But that does not mean we don't realize how hard it is.
I really have appreciated in the past the perspective of some of my childless/childfree friends. Sometimes I would get so bogged down in the minutae of dealing with my children that I didn't see the forest for the trees.
Aside from that I think there is nothing more beneficial to a family than having a few adults who are involved with, and love the children of that family. I feel my children's lives have been enriched by the knowledge that they have an Auntie Glenda and an Uncle Dave (to name two) who don't have kids of their own and think the sun rises and sets on them.
That said, the adults I know who don't have children are also the first to acknowledge that they are not parents and despite the care and concern they have for the children in their lives they don't truly know what it means to be "on duty" 24/7. Based on your posts in the past I think you are definitely one of the good ones in the department!
-------------------- If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr Posts: 18428 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
posted
Well condsidering that most colleges start fall semester around the end of August, but many students still go to summer semester because they don't quite qualify for fall entrance - that still leaves quite a few months for a lucky birthday to fall into. But I was 17 when I went to college. Turned 18 3 weeks before the end of the first quarter actually. Best College friend turned 18 halfway through the quarter (exactly 30 days before I did) Mr-Rhi-O (or should I call him Mysterio?) Turned 18 2 weeks before college started, but that was mainly because our school started so late (mid September). It was quite a bit of fun around the dorms celebrating everyone's 18th birthdays the first quarter.
ETA: While it is correct that in most states the cutoff birthday mostly eliminates starting college while 17, in 20 states it is possible.
-------------------- I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.
quote:Originally posted by onein6billion: Bull. My roommate and both of his brother were promptly shown the door by their parents when they turned 18 because "you're an adult now, so go be an adult." No drug abuse, no behavioral problems (other than your typical teen angst), nothing. Just because you don't think it happens doesn't mean that it doesn't.
Still in high school on that day? Attending college? Working? Were they triplets? If all 3 brothers were turned out on their 18th birthdays, then at least some of them were college seniors enrolled in high school, right? Must have been awkward for the pre-18 brothers to be attending school with the kicked out 18 year old. Or are you twisting the facts of the story to make it fit?
Errata, it seems to me as if you are taking Oi6B's statement to mean that all three of these siblings were kicked out on the exact same day (hence, your "triplets" question). I took it to mean that as each turned 18, and that may be 2, 3 or 5 years apart, that they were kicked out. Honestly, I think you are really making too much of what seems to me to be a misinterpretation on your part.
And out of 4 kids in my family, one never graduated HS (had he, he would have been 17), 2 of us graduated at 17, and one of us graduated at 17 because she skipped a grade - otherwise she would have been 18. Which belies, anectodally, this:
quote:And this is why you aren't trustworthy here. Did they all skip a year? Most people in the US graduate from high school after their 18th birthday. For two of these three kids to be in college at age 17, and the third to have graduated, is highly unlikely. For it to happen once could be a lucky birthday. Three out of three demands an explanation.
I can't explain it, other than that's when the sperms hit the eggs 18.75 years prior to our 18th birthdays.
I'm sorry, but you're not much of a reader.
Or maybe you're not much of a writer. I'm still scratching my head about why you think college seniors would be enrolled in high school("at least some of them were college seniors enrolled in high school, right?"). At the very least, you're condescending. Or someone pissed in your cereal this morning, but I assure you it wasn't me. Why the snottiness?
quote:Its quite clear from my comments that I wasn't assuming they all were kicked out at once, but rather that they were kicked out on their 18th birthdays like he said. The triplets question was a preemptive attempt to explain why each of them had a lucky birthday.
Clearly, it's not quite clear. Why would anyone assume that your triplets question was "preemptive"? Especially given that many posters have already addressed this:
quote: One coincidence is a coincidence, but three coincidences in a row is not.
quote:There is a difference between graduating high school at 17 and going to college at 17.
Sometimes there is, sometimes there isn't. My sister and I, and many of our friends, were enrolled and attending college classes before we graduated high school. And I began as a full-time college student the week after I graduated high school. Still 17.
quote: In many states, the cutoff birthday occurs at the end of summer, so people born in the summer will graduate high school at 17, but go to college at 18.
"Many" is not "all", and to call out another poster as having twisted the facts when really this is quite common (common enough that many here have experienced or heard of 17 year olds attending college) is a bit over the top.
quote: The measurable facts are that a very small minority of students begin college at 17.
And where is this measurement again? Was it that one cite of one college?
quote:A significantly larger fraction graduate high school at 17. So your anecdotes have no relevance.
My anecdotes were offered not as data - but to show you that it is possible you overreacted to Onein6Billion's anecdote as twisting facts and needing to be proven to you because your experiences are the only ones that could *possibly* be real.
quote: I myself graduated high school at 17, but started college at 18.
So clearly, this is your norm - not everyone's
quote:Because of the cutoff date for kindergarten in my state (turning 5 by the start of school), you would have had to skip a grade or go to an unusual private school to start college before 18, but its not at all uncommon to graduate high school at 17. And the statistics back up that that is the norm.
Again, great that that is your experience - but realize it is not everyone's. Clearly, it's not mine, and according to Onein6Billion's, it wasn't the experience of her roommate's family. I don't find his anecdote to be all that "twisted" at all.
ETA: Corrected Onein6Billion's gender. Well, I didn't really correct her gender, I corrected my assumption of her gender. Sorry.
-------------------- "The little local company I buy from has CHEAP shipping and I have met their goats." (snapdragonfly)
"And that's one lost erection I'll never get back! You hear me Dan! I'm owed an erection!" (I'mNotDedalus) Posts: 2658 | From: California | Registered: Jul 2005
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So this eminently plausible story then is that 2 of these 3 brothers were already attending college for at most a few months when they were kicked out. Wouldn't the 2nd or 3rd brother have wised up and anticipated that this was about to happen and maybe just gone to a college that had a dorm rather than spending part of a semester at home before becoming homeless and having to scramble for a new housing situation? You can only unexpectedly and maliciously kick out one of the siblings on their birthday, because the others will have advance notice of your intentions and a chance to prepare for it.
Having your children go away to colleges with dorms is not the same as kicking them out. And once they know they aren't going to be staying at home (as at least everyone after the first child did), they knew they'd be going away to college. And renting an apartment near campus rather than a dorm is perfectly acceptable too. Going away to college is healthy and normal. Millions of kids do it, and most of them are more than happy to. Even if it requires student loans, financial aid, or a part time job to make it happen. Financial aid departments can work with you to arrange all three without it being too overwhelming.
I don't contend that the anecdote is made up of whole cloth, only that details are being pumped up to make them more inflammatory. Once a person has judged a situation, they sometimes feel justified in adjusting details of it to guide others to their conclusion.
quote:And where is this measurement again? Was it that one cite of one college?
No, the 4% of entering freshman is at one college, the 2% of college students is nationally. I didn't see any figures on the percentage of incoming freshman done at a national level.
Posts: 2018 | From: Santa Barbara, California | Registered: Aug 2005
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Hey Errata, you've mostly ignored me so far but I just wanted to let you know...
You are the one being really rude.
You are attacking seemingly anyone who comes to a different conclusion to you, despite the fact that there is not enough evidence to form a concrete conclusion about anything to do with this particulart situation -- that includes you buddy.
You are being incredibly defensive over something that honestly has nothing to do with you.
I'll echo Roadie's sentiment that I have no idea who the hell pissed in your cereal this morning but you sure as hell are taking it out on everyone.
If I had to judge between whether Roadie needs better reading skills or you need better writing skills, you lose. I have certainly never found Roadie's ability to interpret written text to be lacking.
Quite frankly, I'm gonna do a little bit of "reading between the lines" myself. Wanna know what conclusion I jumped to? That you have some serious emotional baggage that is somehow related to the topic. Rather than seeing it as your own problem and dealing with it, you're lashing out.
Really, go take a chill pill or whatever it is you do to relax and stop taking out whatever crap you're dealing with on the rest of us.
-------------------- "victory thru self-deception" Posts: 2211 | From: Western Australia | Registered: Jun 2005
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Its an urban legend message board, Salamander. Using critical thinking skills to evaluate weak stories goes with the territory. You're wrong to think that anyone whose veracity I question must be touching some hot button issue. The truth is worth finding for its own merits
When someone tells a story where some individual in their life is totally in the wrong, then that person in the wrong probably has their own side to the story that would change people's perspective on the situation quite a bit. Snopesters seem all too willing to assume that their fellow snopester's version of the story is the more accurate version, on the basis of nothing.
Posts: 2018 | From: Santa Barbara, California | Registered: Aug 2005
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To address the OP, I'm well acquainted with a Canadian mom who has kicked both of her oldest children out shortly after they finished 8th grade - at the ripe old age of 14.
I don't know the oldest daughter at all, but I know the oldest son well. He is a great kid, and incredibly capable considering that he came from a background that included never knowing his father, frequent moves, often not having enough to eat, physical abuse and parental drug use. This kid was responsible for most of the care of his younger sisters from the time he was 12. That was about the same time that he started standing up to his mom's habits of selling of their stuff for drug money, and bringing abusive men into the house.
This kid's mom kicked him out immediately after his grade 8 graduation. She gave him lots of warning. Fortunately, a former neigbor agreed to take him in. He works his ass off at McDonalds to pay rent to his "uncle" who provides him with a place to live.
The really incredible thing (to me) is that this kid loves his mom. He comes back to visit when he can, and he's always cheery and optimistic. Even more unbelievable is the fact that his one younger sister is also a great kid - honest, hardworking, cheerful, polite. The youngest all that, without the "honest". Somehow, this woman, flawed as she is, managed to raise some great kids.
I suppose I'm relating this anecdote to let Errata, and others, know that there are all kinds of families out there. It's erroneous to assume that all families operate according the same societal norms. And hopefully I've provided enough information so that Errata doesn't think I'm purposely "twisting" the story (althoug why I would do that, I'm not sure).
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I took a semester off from college to decide where I wanted to go and what I wanted to study (I burned out on the sciences/premed track I was on, just needed some time), during that semester off, I had to pay mom and dad rent and pay any college loans that came due. My parents agreed to pay off all loans for us kids as a college graduation present. Because my brother never got the degree, he paid off his own loans.
After I graduated, I got a job near my parents. Because my grandfather was very ill, Mom was out in the midwest a lot, helping Gram. Mom and dad had a German friend's son living with them for the year and going to HS (he had dual citizenship, was coming up on his 18th birthday needed to choose one, so they thought he should have a year in the US to help him decide). So in lieu of rent, I did all the cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc. for Dad and the boy. Other than that, Mom and Dad figured rent based on what the difference was in their utility and grocery bills when I was there.
And when I went out, I just told them what time I expected to be back and called if I was going to be significantly later than that (which is what the rule was since HS, so that was nothing new).
To this day, however, when I leave mom and dad's to return home, they ask me to call so they know I/we got home OK. But I understand. I worry about them driving from here, especially at night, so I'll often ask them to do the same. It just saves on the worrying.
-------------------- Like every good third-in-a-series it contains a whole load of ewoks, ‘Clubber’ Lang, whey-faced Sophia Coppola, Sean Connery as the Pirate Captain’s estranged dad, a crappy CGI alien, and Richard Pryor on a donkey. -- Gideon Defoe Posts: 2211 | From: Harford County, MD | Registered: Oct 2005
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To me it appears that if it doesn't fit Errata's definition of how things work it just cannot be true. End of story. And anyone who begs to differ or has an anecdote that contradicts his preconceptions they are a)lying b) misinformed c)dumb or d) all of the above. YMMV of course.
P&LL, Syl
-------------------- Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. — Voltaire Posts: 1944 | From: Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by lynnejanet: The really incredible thing (to me) is that this kid loves his mom. He comes back to visit when he can, and he's always cheery and optimistic. Even more unbelievable is the fact that his one younger sister is also a great kid - honest, hardworking, cheerful, polite. The youngest all that, without the "honest". Somehow, this woman, flawed as she is, managed to raise some great kids.
My sister and her ex have somehow managed to produce 4 pretty terrific kids despite a lot of years of turmoil (to say the least). It's amazing to see how well, nice, these kids are. If any kid had a good excuse to turn to drugs or anti-social behavior these kids did, and yet, nope.
Anyway your post reminded me that my exBIL basically abandoned his 16 yr old. My sister was living outside the province with the 3 youngest children and the exBIL went off to live with his latest boyfriend and left my nephew on his own with no money, no food in the house and no heat or electricity because he hadn't paid the hydro bill in months. The police were eventually called and my nephew had to prove that he wasn't squatting in the house. That was the first time the extended family learned of all this and my nephew was living with his grandparents by the next night. God I hadn't thought about this in awhile, my blood pressure is skyrocketing .
-------------------- If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr Posts: 18428 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Errata: Its an urban legend message board, Salamander. Using critical thinking skills to evaluate weak stories goes with the territory.
This is an urban legend message board? Boy, I sure feel silly now. Want to know what else "goes with the territory"? Avoiding personal attacks... but hey.
quote:You're wrong to think that anyone whose veracity I question must be touching some hot button issue. The truth is worth finding for its own merits
Oh... it isn't just the questioning of veracity. Oh no. It is the ad hominem attacks, the utter refusal to acknowledge that maybe your own scenario is no more likely than any others and all that.
-------------------- "victory thru self-deception" Posts: 2211 | From: Western Australia | Registered: Jun 2005
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Errata, I hate to burst that sad little bubble you're living in but yes, all three of them graduated at 17. So did I (and I could have graduated at 16 and chose not to) and so did 3 of my uncles (my dad's brothers). Out of all four of my grandmom's sons, two were born in July and one was born in August. My dad was the odd one out born in November and the only one of the four not to graduate at 17. And let's see my best friend graduated at 17, so did five of my other friends (although not all necessarily at the same time, this goes from 1996-2002). So just because you say it doesn't happen, doesn't mean that it doesn't. Sorry if you have a problem grasping that concept.
Of course, I could be lying.
-------------------- Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference. "Divorce is not caused because 50% of marriages end in gayness." - Jon Stewart my space on myspace--now showing "80's Video Of The Week" Posts: 278 | From: Bel Air, MD | Registered: May 2006
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There's a few things the kid can do to deal with the eviction, lack of ID:
a) contact the state adoption agency that dealt with her adoption and have them issue her with the appropriate documents regarding her adoption.
b) failing gaining any assistance from the agency, she can swear/affirm an affidivit to present to the SS office (along with any supporting documentary evidence she may have as to her adoption).
c) most government agencies have within their regulations, mechanisms to assist individuals to gain the appropriate ID. It may include having the individual have a guarantor sign on behalf of the individual.
d) at her adoption, her SSN would have been pinned to her old name so reapplying for it under a "name change" should take care of that.
e) she should where possible, get copies of all school records and letters from her teaching staff and principal to help with establishing her ID.
f) last but the most expensive, is for her to apply to the courts to have her name changed back to her original birth name. That should solve the SSN problem as well as giving her a new set of documents.
-------------------- Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. Napoleon Bonaparte Posts: 47 | From: Ontario | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Errata: So this eminently plausible story then is that 2 of these 3 brothers were already attending college for at most a few months when they were kicked out. Wouldn't the 2nd or 3rd brother have wised up and anticipated that this was about to happen and maybe just gone to a college that had a dorm rather than spending part of a semester at home before becoming homeless and having to scramble for a new housing situation? You can only unexpectedly and maliciously kick out one of the siblings on their birthday, because the others will have advance notice of your intentions and a chance to prepare for it.
I'm sorry, but you're not much of a reader. Although the murkiness of your reasoning is starting to clear up some - I can almost see what you're getting at here - you seem to have misread Onein6Billion's "promptly" as "unexpectedly and maliciously".
I could give you antecdotes about being a self-centered kid who couldn't tell you what was going on in the lives of my siblings that were 10, 9, and 6 years older than me and what conversations they had with my parents about options after HS graduation, but since they most likely won't mesh exactly with your experiences I'm sure that I must have "pumped them up" to make them more inflammatory, so I'll skip them.
-------------------- "The little local company I buy from has CHEAP shipping and I have met their goats." (snapdragonfly)
"And that's one lost erection I'll never get back! You hear me Dan! I'm owed an erection!" (I'mNotDedalus) Posts: 2658 | From: California | Registered: Jul 2005
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Michigan Girl
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales
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quote:Originally posted by Rhiandmoi: Alot of families have clumped birthdays. I think it has something to do with a "favorite" time of year. Say one family has 3 kids all born in late April early May. Whaddyaknow Mom and Dad have always gone on a waterskiing trip in July.
My sister was born in February, and I was born in January. No idea about any annual waterskiing trip or anything.
My kids were all born in the summer, but not all have the same dad. Maybe some women get pregnant easier at certain times of the year.
-------------------- ~ Yep, I'm in Michigan ~ My blog http://catsrule2k.blogspot.com/ I am not willing to give up my constitutional freedoms just because I have nothing to hide Posts: 142 | From: Michigan | Registered: Aug 2006
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A bloke I work with has 8 siblings, 6 of which share birthdays in the same week! (almost precisley 9 months after his Father's Birthday)
-------------------- "British English speakers point to Americans adding more syllables so that they can make even more noise without actually saying anything." Llewtrah
Posts: 2235 | From: Sussex , UK | Registered: May 2004
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guruwan2b
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
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I was born 9 months exactly after my dad's birthday.....
-------------------- Too much of this navel gazing and we'll disappear up our own arses. Danvers Carew Posts: 7465 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Oct 2001
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Errata - here's a lesson in critical thinking.
Let's assume that birth is distributed evenly throughout the year. Assume that we are in an area where you start school if your birthday falls anywhere in that *calendar* year. In other words, the year you turn 18 is the year that you will finish high-school - all other things being equal.
What that means is that we don't consider the (often numerous) groups of students who repeat a year due to poor academics, medical problems, travel, or the small group who are "advanced" a grade, usually at an early age.
The *ceremony* for high-school graduation may take place in June, or in October, but let's just assume that people "graduate" from high school once their last class has finished.
By this reasoning, approximately 50% of students will graduate high-school at 17, because their birthday falls in the latter half of the year.
College classes start, approximately, in September. One-third of these collage entrants will not yet have had their 18th birthday.
So, for students who never repeat a year, take no time off, and proceed with their education, uninterrupted, approximately one-third will be 17 when they start college. They will be 17 for no more than a few months, but they will be, nevertheless, 17.
Unless you have some data - not anecdote - to prove otherwise, I would say that my assumptions are reasonable and valid.
No need to get upset with people and accuse them of lying.
-------------------- "The fate of *billions* depends on you! Hahahahaha....sorry." Lord Raiden - Mortal Kombat Posts: 1587 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Hero_Mike: By this reasoning, approximately 50% of students will graduate high-school at 17, because their birthday falls in the latter half of the year.
Except many-if-not-most school districts in the U.S. have a cutoff date for kindergarten. That is, you must turn 5 before a certain date to start in that year (in my district it's September 1). This means, all other things being equal, in my district only 1/4 of students will graduate high school at 17 (those with birthdays in June, July and August, since graduation is usually in May).
ETA: Also, only those who attend colleges that start before September 1 will still be 17 when they start.
ETAA: Quite thoroughly spanked further up the thread, sorry folks.
Okay, anecdotally my brother and I (both August birthdays, with my folks it wasn't a vacation it was apparently Veterans Day!) graduated from high school at 17, I turned 18 two days before starting college, and he went to college at 19.
Four Kitties
-------------------- If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales? Posts: 13275 | From: Kindergarten World, Massachusetts | Registered: Jul 2003
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I graduated from high school at 16, as did most of my sibs -- of course in Quebec high school ends at grade 11 but the point is that not everyone who finishes high school does it the Errata Way. Of course I guess I could just be lying about that for some reason .
-------------------- If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr Posts: 18428 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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quote:Originally posted by onein6billion: Errata, I hate to burst that sad little bubble you're living in but yes, all three of them graduated at 17. So did I (and I could have graduated at 16 and chose not to) and so did 3 of my uncles (my dad's brothers). Out of all four of my grandmom's sons, two were born in July and one was born in August. My dad was the odd one out born in November and the only one of the four not to graduate at 17. And let's see my best friend graduated at 17, so did five of my other friends (although not all necessarily at the same time, this goes from 1996-2002). So just because you say it doesn't happen, doesn't mean that it doesn't. Sorry if you have a problem grasping that concept.
Of course, I could be lying.
It doesn't matter at what age they graduated, it matters at what age they went to college. And it matters why the second one to go to college would wait until his 18th birthday to get kicked out rather than just starting out in a dorm. Seems like unnecessary, easily avoided drama. Going away to college isn't getting kicked out, and choosing not to go away to college when you know you can't stay is poor planning. The ones born July to August that you mention would be highly typical examples of people turning 18 before college. Its telling that you responded to the age issue, while ignoring the fundamental irrationality of their choices about waiting to get kicked out.
We were talking about the US, Christie. I'm pretty sure Quebec isn't interested in joining up.
Posts: 2018 | From: Santa Barbara, California | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Errata said: Seems like unnecessary, easily avoided drama.
Sure does. You could stop anytime.
-------------------- How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black Posts: 8322 | From: Columbus, OH | Registered: Aug 2005
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Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
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Just to really confuse things, I started university at 19.
Why? Because we had Grade 13 here. I could have started at 18 had I taken just four years of high school, or, had I been born in, say, November instead of April, and took only four years of high school, I could have started university at 17. But as is, I started at 19.
-------------------- People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril) Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Errata: Its telling that you responded to the age issue, while ignoring the fundamental irrationality of their choices about waiting to get kicked out.
Maybe they figured it wouldn't happen to them. Or they just weren't paying attention. I couldn't tell you what my younger sibling is doing 80% of the time.
And maybe, just maybe, being called a liar just really NFBSKing pisses me off. Although, now that I think about, your opinion doesnt' matter to me, so I'll just stop feeding you now. I'm done with you.
-------------------- Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference. "Divorce is not caused because 50% of marriages end in gayness." - Jon Stewart my space on myspace--now showing "80's Video Of The Week" Posts: 278 | From: Bel Air, MD | Registered: May 2006
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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
posted
Going away and living in the dorms - especially when you already know that your parents are going to be washing their hands of you shortly - is scarier and more expensive than going to school close to home and when the time comes finding an apartment with some friends or going to stay with a friend's family. Personally, I would have probably anticipated the eviction because I am a horrible pessimist and I would have probably already had a friend's family to live with. But not everyone sees the glass as half empty.
-------------------- I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.
posted
Speaking of birthday clumping, my half-sister was born the day before my 4th birthday. Sometimes data clusters.
And, just because they went to college doesn't mean they weren't kicked out. After all, students have to live somewhere in summertime.
-------------------- "My sandwich choice is uncertain, until I actually order. It's like Schrodinger's Sandwich." "Is plutonium involved in this sandwich in any way?" "Maybe." Posts: 496 | From: Whitby, ON, Canada | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
I've read through all of these posts(!) and haven't seen any situation described like mine, so I thought I'd share a new one.
My son is 17 and a senior in high school. I've been struggling with what is best for him when he graduates. He does plan to go to college - which one, we don't know - so it could be in town - should he live at home? The reason it hasn't been a cut-and-dry issue with me is my own experiences as a teenager.
Quickly the background: I am the only person in my family to have a baby at a very young age. Some say I got pregnant because of how this exact issue was handled.
I was just terrible to my mom and step-dad when I was 14 - 16. My mom agrees, a lot of it had to do with her over-protective and controlling style of parenting. Whatever, I was awful - calling my mom names, sneaking out, sneaking boys in, skipping school, etc. (not the worst kid; definitely not the best). As a result of my behavior, my step-dad kicked me out of the house. I moved in with my boyfriend (after a time of sleeping on friends' couches, etc.). When I was 17, I got pregnant.
Okay - now here's the kicker: although that sounds awful (and my mom was in hell for a while), it is the best thing that ever happened to me.
At first, I wasn't exactly on the "right track". During that time of not working much or going to college, I did not get help from my parents. After trying the hard way for about 6 months (and getting on welfare - as a stepping stone), I got my act together and took my parenting job seriously. I worked part time and went to school part time while parenting my son without any support from his dad. As soon as I began living responsibly, my family was there to help.
It's how we do things in my family: If you aren't helping yourself, you're on your own. If you're doing what you can, the help has no boundaries. Now, living with my parents was never, ever an option once I moved out. The way they helped me was financially and by being actively involved in my son's upbringing.
This part is especially important to me. Until I had my own apartment to clean and pay for, until I had to buy food and other household items on my own, and until someone had disrespected me in MY home, I did not understand important facts of life regarding work ethic, appreciation for others, and basic respect for my parents. I feel like the "tough love" stance my family took worked.
Now, here I am, wondering what to do about my son. (By the way, I am now a very successful self-employed homeowner - productive in society and very independent - still doing it all on my own) Here's where I'm at right now: I believe that I stepped up to the plate because of the way I was raised my whole life. When it came down to it, it was not an option for me (in my own mind) to not be a good parent. I'm hoping that the standards by which my son has been living and the values he observes in our family will prevail once he "grows up". But I also think that maybe he does need a push. (?) I'm not sure he will come to this on his own unless he is faced with some adversity and needs to rise to the occassion. I'm scared to send him out into the world - even though I have taught him quite a bit about being independent. But maybe, like it was for me, it would be a good thing? It's so hard to know what to do.
I would never "evict" him - he knows he's expected to move on in life after high school. If he cannot afford life away from home but is working and going to school, I will support him financially. Is that enough? Is that terrible? So many of these posts are coming down hard on parents who put their foot down - I know that it is warranted in some cases, but where is the line between a type of abandonment and a form of teaching/parenting?
I do know this - I believe that there isn't a right or wrong answer, that most of us do the best we can with what we have, and that it's not about blame or fault. If we, as parents, keep our eyes on the real issue - raising productive, independent, and happy people - we can follow our hearts and have faith that our kids are capable, resourceful, and competent.
I'm glad this topic is here. It's been so helpful to read everyone's thoughts. Thank you.
-------------------- Always do what you want, and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind. ~ Dr. Suess Posts: 14 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
I don't think anyone's against putting your foot down, but rather against treating children as a temporary burden to get rid of as soon as possible. I think it's reasonable to expect him to work, and to put effort towards becoming self-sufficient.
-------------------- "My sandwich choice is uncertain, until I actually order. It's like Schrodinger's Sandwich." "Is plutonium involved in this sandwich in any way?" "Maybe." Posts: 496 | From: Whitby, ON, Canada | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
The attitude I see most commonly among my friends, and the parents of my children's friends, is pretty similar to my own. You support your kids until they can support themselves -- unless there is some compelling reason to do otherwise -- and just not wanting to be a full-time parent isn't a compelling reason.
That's the main reason I feel pretty comfortable with the decisions that we have made up to now.
-------------------- If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr Posts: 18428 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
Sweet Cariad, I think every situation is unique and should be judged on its own merits. I know how you feel because I think my own difficult childhood made me stronger. But I've decided that orchestrated adversity won't have the same effect on my child anyway, so I'm going to make her life normal-level easy and just try to teach her responsibility and other positive character attributes without the crappy childhood. I know people who turned out ok without suffering, so it definitely is possible.
Personally, I've known people who made the wrong decision in letting their kids stay and others who made wrong decisions in shoving them out the door. As long as you treat your child with love and try to do what's best for him, it will all work out. It's those parents who try to do what's best for themselves without regard to the kid who screw it up.
My own mother kicked my brother out when he was 15. He was being extremely difficult, but I still think she made the wrong decision. My brother went to live with our father who didn't want him, Dad kicked him out when he was 16 and my brother went into foster care for almost 2 years until college. It was parental laziness that caused my brother's issues and more parental laziness that chose how to handle those issues.
Strangely, that same mother tried to keep me from ever moving out. She had decided I was going to stay with her and take care of her and be her bestest friend for the rest of my life. So she wouldn't have to make her own friends, be nice to other people, keep a job, etc. Again, parental laziness.
Posts: 2115 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
"As long as you treat your child with love and try to do what's best for him, it will all work out. It's those parents who try to do what's best for themselves without regard to the kid who screw it up."
-I think that sums it up quite well.
-------------------- "Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit
(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad) Posts: 2397 | From: Texarkana, TX | Registered: Mar 2006
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