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I tried to learn to drive. More than once. The last time my husband took me out, when we got home, I collapsed into a sobbing lump of huwomanity in the nearest chair in the back yard. My poor doggie ran around me in circles, crying and whining for about five minutes until I could pull myself together. My husband said he would never again put me through such agony. I am terrified behind the wheel of a car. I cannot keep the monster where it should be. In my mind, it seems that if you turn the steering wheel 45°, the the front wheels should turn 45°. They do not. Add that to the fact that it will look to me like a car is about to crash into the side of our car when we're crossing a street, but the car is actually a couple of blocks away, and maybe you can see my problem. At least a dozen people have tried to teach me - my Daddy, my favorite uncle, an aunt, several friends, and my husband. They were all most patient and tried numerous times each. Do I wish I could drive? Yes, but I think I would be a hazard on the highway. I'm breaking out into a cold sweat, and my hands are starting to shake just thinking about trying to drive. It's just been in the last 15± years that I've even been able to ride in a car without applying imaginary brakes and getting nervous. I finally realized that my husband is an excellent driver, and if I just don't watch all the fools on the road, I can do okay. Here's an idea for your consideration. Maybe your mother's refusal to learn to drive is not exactly what you perceive it to be. Or she could just be hard-headed.
ETA: Hi, LadyLockeout! I see I'm not the only one.
-------------------- "This air we're breathing. Oxygen, isn't it?"~I’mNotDedalus, impersonating Vincent D’Onofrio.|"Sometimes trying to communicate can be like walking through a minefield."~wanderwoman "Give people a break. It's not easy doing a life."~Joshua Halberstam Posts: 4020 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Nov 2005
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Signora, I'm delighted to learn that I'm not alone! *salutes*
-------------------- Katesune: We still can't find the way to albuquerque, and glisp won't stop to ask for directions. Glisp42: Of course not. I know where I'm going, I just don't know where I am right now
quote:Originally posted by LadyLockeout: Signora, I'm delighted to learn that I'm not alone! *salutes*
Up until last October I was one that "couldn't drive". Well technically last August but I wasn't exactly legal until October. I was 29 when I got my license. I totally understand the fear of being behind the wheel or of even just being in a car. I can also say that driving in Miami is very intimidating. I think I drove twice on the city streets there before we moved here. I was scared beyond all belief both of those times. From my own personal experience the older you are when you learn how to drive the more frightening it is. At 29 I knew a lot more about how dangerous it can be on the road than I did at 16. Add in the "embarrassment" factor and it's almost enough to drive one to never want to drive.
Pixiechic ETA: I do think that tenorcs' mother needs to show gratitude and not expect him to drive her around. The only person I knew I could expect that of was my husband. Before I met him if I hitched a ride with someone to a party or whatnot, I left when they wanted to without complaint.
quote:Originally posted by LadyLockeout: Signora, I'm delighted to learn that I'm not alone! *salutes*
Fraidy-cats of the world, unite!
ETA: I'm in complete agreement that tenorcs' mother should be more considerate, whatever her reason for not driving.
Pixiechic, I started trying to learn to drive when I was about 15. Gave up trying about 25 years ago. Gave up feeling inferior because of it about the same time when I realized that other people didn't consider it to be a character flaw.
-------------------- "This air we're breathing. Oxygen, isn't it?"~I’mNotDedalus, impersonating Vincent D’Onofrio.|"Sometimes trying to communicate can be like walking through a minefield."~wanderwoman "Give people a break. It's not easy doing a life."~Joshua Halberstam Posts: 4020 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by tagurit: Sounds like she purposely doesn't drive because it would hinder her ability to manipulate her family.
That's my feeling as well, tag.
I mean, I do understand not learning to drive because of fear. Hey, driving is scary, no matter where you drive.
But tenorcs mother, I think, has a massive case of entitlement, and thinks she's entitled to control the family and family outings.
Oh well, that's just my opinion, though, LOL.
Ms. 'and probably worth what you paid for it,too' K
-------------------- Beware corporate zombies! They will purchase your brain on E-Bay! Posts: 2310 | From: California | Registered: Jul 2003
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My brother has had his permit on several occasions and tried the driving test a couple of times and failed. He is 30 and has no intentions of getting his license. Neither does his SO. This is fine most of the time because Boston has a decent public transportation system. The other day, however, he wanted to visit to see my dad. ALl well and good and he asked if I would pick him up next town over at the train station which I agreed to. Then my SO and I Went and did a huge amount of errand while he and my dad visited. When I got home I was tired and wanted to kick back and relax but couldn't because I knew I would have to be driving him back. It feels like being held hostage and I hate it.
But, I knew what to expect and also felt comfortable saying, "I'm really worn out. I can drive you to the subway now or I can drop you down the street at the commuter rail later (commuter rail is about 1/4 mile down the street VS 5 or so to the subway, which was where I picked him up; com rail is more $$). He gave me no fuss about going.
You just need to set limits and maybe do this before you even let her in the car.
-------------------- "Silly customer, you cannot hurt a Twinkie." -Apu (The Simpsons) Posts: 2026 | From: 10 miles South of Boston | Registered: Oct 2002
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quote:Originally posted by tagurit: Sounds like she purposely doesn't drive because it would hinder her ability to manipulate her family.
People who thrive on manipulation will always find a way to do it. I don't think someone purposely chooses not to drive for a reason like that. I guess I just know too many people who don't drive to believe that there has to be a nefarious reason for this lack on their part. For some people driving is just not something they will ever want to do.
Would it be better for her to force herself to drive, hate it and resent her family for putting herself in a position that she doesn't want to be in?
-------------------- If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr Posts: 18428 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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I got a temporary at 16, but never got my license until 20. Why? No time to learn -work and study- coupled with not really caring. We only had one car and it was Mom's baby. A scratch on that thing would not have been fun to survive.
I was always good about asking, and combined as many trips as possible.
As for the OP, I would simply just keep saying no, and getting your dad to do something similar. Perhaps next time you say to be ready at 10:15, you could leave if she weren't?
-------------------- "To be or not to be! That is the question! Now, will you answer, dare, double dare, or take the Physical Challenge?" --Mark Summers as Hamlet Countdown: 177 days and counting... or less. My blog. 14 keyboards owed. Posts: 5584 | From: Ohio | Registered: Dec 2003
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My interpretation of the OP was not that tenorcs is iritated neccessarily that Mom hasn't learned to drive- he's irritated at the manipulative behavior. If Mom knew how to drive and were manipulating the family in other ways, he'd be irritated at that.
-------------------- "Seize the day! Make your lives extraordinary!" -John Keating, "Dead Poets Society" Posts: 2861 | From: New Jersey | Registered: May 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Zorro: My interpretation of the OP was not that tenorcs is iritated neccessarily that Mom hasn't learned to drive- he's irritated at the manipulative behavior. If Mom knew how to drive and were manipulating the family in other ways, he'd be irritated at that.
Unfortunately, Zorro, the manipulation and the not driving go hand-in-hand. My biggest problem is that at times she is so unproductive because she can't take care of anything outside of the house without inconveniencing someone else. If she could drive, she could take care of herself a lot better.
I referred to her shopping annoying me in the OP. Quick example/generality: my mom takes too long to shop. I can no longer accompany her on shopping trips. I will, if I am available, drop her off and have her call me when she's ready to get picked up. Not only does she take too long, she WASTES time. She is the type of person who will spend 45 minutes looking at the displays of baby clothes in K-mart, when nobody we know is pregnant or has an infant child. But for her, since she's pretty much stuck in the house all the time, she tries to stretch the few excursions she does get so they last as long as possible.
Some more facts: I know "almost 60" isn't exactly one foot in the grave, but my mom has not aged well. She has back and neck problems. She is very overweight. She can't really walk that well. So walking to and from places is not an option. And due to the layout of Miami, you just don't walk places. You need to drive to function in this city. Walking is SO uncommon here that most neighborhoods don't even have sidewalks. (Really)
Posts: 95 | From: Miami, FL | Registered: Jul 2006
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I'm 23, I have my license, but I don't drive. I really and truly hate it. It scares me, and since I am bad at spatial relationship and not-great hand-eye coordination, I'm better off not on the road.
But I hate asking people for rides, so I try to be as polite as possible.
In the case of the OP, tenorcs' mom does sound very rude and manipulative -- and she could probably find a way to be so even if she did drive.
Sorry. Good luck!
--NewZer0
-------------------- I study medieval literature because that's where the money is. Posts: 1431 | From: Corvallis, OR | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Christie: Would it be better for her to force herself to drive, hate it and resent her family for putting herself in a position that she doesn't want to be in?
Would it be better for her to force others into taking her everywhere and have them resent her for putting them in a position they don't want to be in?
Someone's being forced to do something either way. The person who drives her is then obligated to come pick her up when she's ready meaning that person can't really make plans to do anything else that day. Someone earlier said it was kinda like being held hostage.
Posts: 177 | From: Orlando, Florida | Registered: Jan 2006
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Well no, not really. She's not "forcing" anyone to give her a ride that I can see. Everyone, (as is pointed out frequently) has the right to say no. Just because they may be guilted into saying yes, doesn't mean they're being forced in the literal sense of the word. I don't "force" my husband to drive me to work in the morning. He does it because I'm terrified of driving, I'm the one with the job, and because I ask him nicely. Extenuating circumstances in my situation certainly mean that I would pile some guilt factors on if he opted not to drive me one morning for no better reason than "I don't want to", but that doesn't mean I'm forcing him.
Wow I hope that makes sense because about halfway through it I think I lost the thought...
-------------------- Katesune: We still can't find the way to albuquerque, and glisp won't stop to ask for directions. Glisp42: Of course not. I know where I'm going, I just don't know where I am right now
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Firstly, let me start with the disclaimer that I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV.
That said, I do consider myself a well educated layperson. And having wrestled with my own demons regarding driving, I can relate some.
Firstly, I suspect some of here may be suffering from something called Fundemental atribution error. Not that it's their fault or anything, it's human nature to make unwarranted assumptions. Life is a learning experience, we just have to get used to it.
Fear of driving isn't all that uncommon, and in many cases telling someone to "get over it" or just assume that if you make life hard for them they'll learn out of nessesity won't usually help and often makes things worse. It's like telling someone with a broken leg to get up and walk - or that they can just fend for themselves because you consider a broken leg not to be a serious problem.
In addition to a fear of driving being part of a "Simple phobia" (that is an overwhelming fear of a specific thing - such as heights, enclosed spaces, spiders, or... driving), a dread of driving is not uncommon among those with agoraphobia (which is considered a progression of panic disorder.
quote: People who have full-blown, repeated panic attacks can become very disabled by their condition and should seek treatment before they start to avoid places or situations where panic attacks have occurred. For example, if a panic attack happened in an elevator, someone with panic disorder may develop a fear of elevators that could affect the choice of a job or an apartment, and restrict where that person can seek medical attention or enjoy entertainment.
Some people's lives become so restricted that they avoid normal activities, such as grocery shopping or driving. About one-third become housebound or are able to confront a feared situation only when accompanied by a spouse or other trusted person. When the condition progresses this far, it is called agoraphobia, or fear of open spaces.
In my case my trigger was driving - getting on a major road would cause me extreme pain, so I learned to avoid freeways, then major roads, then driving altogether.
Unfortunately, my first attempt at therapy was a quack trying to recruit for a cult, who's "just force yourself to do it" attitude made things far worse. Fortunately, since he spent most of the sessions talking about his own problems, with an occational pitch for some "moral tone scale" or somesuch nonsense, I had enough sense to leave and find a real therapist.
It took me a bit of time to improve my comfort level, and in the end I had to rely on better living through chemistry (under the supervision of a board certified psychiatrist) to clean things up.
But the good news is that with help and proper intervention things did get better. I have learned to forgive the various family members who's well meaning insults made the journey more... 'interesting'.
I don't know if these sort of circumstances apply to your mother or not. I just suggest that you consider whether or not there could be other factors in play (beyond cynical manipulation) in her choosing not to drive.
-------------------- The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the zero adjust on his bathroom scale. Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - ) Posts: 244 | From: Ventura, CA | Registered: Sep 2005
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I did not get licensed to drive a car until I was 32 and my (then) husband put down his foot about it. He was tired of being my chauffeur and thought it high time I learned to drive myself. So he spoke up about the matter, and we agreed that he would teach me, and that once I had my license I would drive myself rather than look to him to trundle me from place to place.
He was endlessly patient and good-humoured about instructing me, which couldn't have been easy, given how ungracefully I handle not immediately mastering anything I set out to do. Over and over, as I would snap "But that's not how *you* drive!!" he would remind me, "Barbara, I'm not teaching you how to drive - I'm teaching you how to pass the test. Later, once you have your license and are getting about on your own, that's when you'll learn to drive. But for now it's all about passing the road test."
He was right. Once I had my license, that is when I truly began learning how to make a car do what I wanted it to. Driving is now one of the joys of my life. As for not having learned for so long, it was never about being afraid of driving, it was rather that there'd never been a need to.
One further datapoint to add to this discussion - my stepmother died because she steadfastly refused to learn to drive. She went all her life without knowing how, and after my father's death, she would catch rides to places with one of my uncles, an old coot that probably shouldn't have still been allowed behind the wheel. One afternoon the car they were riding in slammed into a truck at an intersection of two country roads, killing them both. No one in the other vehicle was harmed, and reading between the lines of the news reports, the accident had been solely my uncle's fault.
Barbara
Posts: 2511 | From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Christie: Would it be better for her to force herself to drive, hate it and resent her family for putting herself in a position that she doesn't want to be in?
Would it be better for her to force others into taking her everywhere and have them resent her for putting them in a position they don't want to be in?
Someone's being forced to do something either way. The person who drives her is then obligated to come pick her up when she's ready meaning that person can't really make plans to do anything else that day. Someone earlier said it was kinda like being held hostage.
As was indicated in a follow up post this woman has some health problems that, in my opinion, would probably make her getting her driver's licence at this stage of the game chancy at best.
She needs to ask for and to accept drives graciously - but her family is also going to have to understand that she will not be driving.
She may feel trapped and resentful of her inability to go where she wants on her own even more more than they may feel resentful at being expected to chaffeur her. My mother is handicapped and is completely dependent on others to take her where she wants to go. Believe me she can be just as angry about needing the help as others may be about feeling compelled to offer it.
Manipulation can be a two way street here. Both "sides" need to reach a compromise on what is expected of them. This shouldn't be something that will create a huge domestic row.
-------------------- If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr Posts: 18428 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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-------------------- "The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch Posts: 3307 | From: Charleston, WV | Registered: Oct 2002
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At first, I had a bus stop about a block from my house where I caught a bus that dropped me a block from my work. When I got married & moved, to where there was no bus service, DH would drive me to work and pick me up. When we needed to shop, we shopped together. If I had a (rare) work thing where I had to stay late, he picked me up.
I used to kid DH that the only reason I didn't drive was that then he'd make me do all the shopping and I hate to shop.
I have tried to learn numerous times in the past 20 years to drive. I seem to do OK, except when my kids are in the car. Then I panic. DH thinks, and I wholeheartedly agree, that I need to be able to drive with the kids in the car, so I still do not have a license. I don't know if I will ever get a license.
I try to never impose myself on others. I ask for a ride, if one can't be provided then I ask elsewhere. I pay for my rides.
As has been previously said, it sounds like tenorcs' mother's prime motivators are manipulation and guilt. At this stage of the game, I don't think you can expect her to learn to drive. But you should expect appreciation and respect. If she can't show her appreciation and confirm with your plans, then I second PallasAthena. Let her take cabs.
-------------------- "Maybe getting in the last word doesn't really mean you win." - The Clarks Posts: 486 | From: Pittsburgh, PA | Registered: Sep 2005
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Tenorcs, my ex-husband's mom didn't get her license until her mid-fifties. Her husband doesn't drive either. They used to take taxis to the grocery store when there was no other ride available. People will do what they have to do when they have no other options. If the issue truly is manipulation, when your mom reaches a time when no one will do her bidding, she'll figure something out. Be strong!
-------------------- And on the 7th day, God said, "Let there be lips!" Posts: 296 | From: Munhall, PA | Registered: Jul 2006
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I was terrified of driving when i was in high school. I squeaked out of drivers ed with a D and refused to learn. But then it came time for me to move away for college so i had no choice but to suck it up and learn. My parents paid for private lessons which left me stressed and shaking. But i got my licence. I still avoid the really huge highways but i can get myself around. Driving is absolutely nothing to me now. I don't even think twice about it. Learning was the hard part but once you've gotten a few years down the line there's nothing scary about it at all.
Posts: 177 | From: Orlando, Florida | Registered: Jan 2006
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One other little item. If Dad knew Mom couldn't drive when he married her, then why is he griping about having to take her places? My now-husband, when I was alone with three children, offered to leave his car with me because he was on the road most of the time. He was astounded to learn that I couldn't drive. He married me, anyway. I had to rely on cabs, relatives and friends for a good number of years while he was still able to work. Now that he's had to retire, he takes me everywhere and even does most of our grocery shopping because I hate grocery shopping. Is it all a one-way street? Nooooooo! I don't get his clothes dirty, yet I wash them. I don't eat all of the food, yet I cook enough for him. I don't use his cell phone, yet I make sure it is always charged. I don't take his meds, yet I make sure his scripts are refilled in a timely manner. The list goes on. Marriage is supposed to be a partnership where one person does things for the other, not just for him/herself.
ETA: I just reread the OP, and tenorcs didn't say his Dad was griping. He just said "Poor Dad has to . . ." It could be that it's just tenorcs' opinion that his Dad shouldn't have to drive his Mom places, so maybe I misinterpreted. If so, I apologize. But, in my opinion, if Dad is griping to son, he shouldn't be. He should be talking to Mom about it. My opinion about marriage/partnership stands in either case.
-------------------- "This air we're breathing. Oxygen, isn't it?"~I’mNotDedalus, impersonating Vincent D’Onofrio.|"Sometimes trying to communicate can be like walking through a minefield."~wanderwoman "Give people a break. It's not easy doing a life."~Joshua Halberstam Posts: 4020 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Signora Del Drago: One other little item. If Dad knew Mom couldn't drive when he married her, then why is he griping about having to take her places? My now-husband, when I was alone with three children, offered to leave his car with me because he was on the road most of the time. He was astounded to learn that I couldn't drive. He married me, anyway. I had to rely on cabs, relatives and friends for a good number of years while he was still able to work. Now that he's had to retire, he takes me everywhere and even does most of our grocery shopping because I hate grocery shopping. Is it all a one-way street? Nooooooo! I don't get his clothes dirty, yet I wash them. I don't eat all of the food, yet I cook enough for him. I don't use his cell phone, yet I make sure it is always charged. I don't take his meds, yet I make sure his scripts are refilled in a timely manner. The list goes on. Marriage is supposed to be a partnership where one person does things for the other, not just for him/herself.
ETA: I just reread the OP, and tenorcs didn't say his Dad was griping. He just said "Poor Dad has to . . ." It could be that it's just tenorcs' opinion that his Dad shouldn't have to drive his Mom places, so maybe I misinterpreted. If so, I apologize. But, in my opinion, if Dad is griping to son, he shouldn't be. He should be talking to Mom about it. My opinion about marriage/partnership stands in either case.
Excellent points Senora!
-------------------- If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr Posts: 18428 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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Not meaning to hijack the thread, but since we're sharing a lot of 'personal experiences' with this situation I hope it's OK to post this here.
I've been watching this thread unfold with interest. I'm really getting the impression that it's much more common for women to not drive than men. I count two cites of couples where neither the man nor woman drive, but in cases where one drives and one doesn't, it's always the man who drives, apparently.
I think I'm the only guy so far to speak up and say he doesn't drive. I live on my own and (mostly) use public transport to get to and from work/downtown. Many people in Toronto live this way due to very high cost of living and frequent buses there, but I live in a small city (100,000 or so) which is cheaper and where the buses are less frequent. Even though I'm still making my lifestyle work, I really do feel like people look down on me, in much the same way that people look down on guys who still live with their parents.
There's this dating site I visit and on the forums there have been some topics about "would you date someone who doesn't own a car/doesn't drive". The majority of men said they would be willing to, but roughly half of the women flat-out said "no car, no date" (let alone not having a license). Those who lived in big cities were more willing to let it slide. Do y'all think that's an accurate reflection of society as a whole, or that the nature of people who would frequent such a site skewed things? And yes, I am single and curious about how unattractive my situation is to women.
Posts: 1325 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Chris J: There's this dating site I visit and on the forums there have been some topics about "would you date someone who doesn't own a car/doesn't drive". The majority of men said they would be willing to, but roughly half of the women flat-out said "no car, no date" (let alone not having a license). Those who lived in big cities were more willing to let it slide. Do y'all think that's an accurate reflection of society as a whole, or that the nature of people who would frequent such a site skewed things? And yes, I am single and curious about how unattractive my situation is to women.
I don't drive, either, having failed the license test twice in a blind panic and having near panic attacks even thinking about going back, and I can tell you that even as a seventeen year old, it's considered unnattractive not to be able to drive. I don't know anyone who would outright refuse to date someone who couldn't, though. I bet such people exist, but I have yet to meet one. I'm not sure if that attitude increases or decreases with age, though.
-------------------- ÒIf you shut up truth and bury it under the ground, it will but grow, and gather to itself such explosive power that the day it bursts through it will blow up everything in its way.Ó -Emile Zola Posts: 1046 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2002
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22 year old non driver. I did begin learning at 17 but fell out with my instructor and never got back to learning. I showed an extream lack of confidence and my control of the car remained mediocre at best. Lessons with my mum were slightly more sucessful. Its odd actually, because I lived in a village with a terrible bus service so you would have though I'd jump at the bit to drive, but it never really appealed to me. I never got back into learning before university and after that there really wasn't the money to learn. Furthermore Cambridge was such a small city that it was easy to walk everywhere I needed to go, and a car would have been an inconveinence more than anything. (No parking space, No money, stupid Uni regulations requiring special 'permits' and a ridiculous one way system) Now up in Edinburgh I have the money to learn, but still no necessity. I could afford to keep a car but it would get used so little that it would barely be worth it. I'm planning to learn before I leave Edinburgh in three years, but think it would be unwise to learn and then not drive for a couple of years.
Its also interesting to not the although lots of my friends at home drive, a significant percentage of my Cambridge friends didn't, about 50% of the people I know in Edinburgh do.
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Tenorcs, I feel your pain. My MIL does not drive either. She fears driving, even just being a passenger. She also has poor eye sight which compounds her fear.
I understand her reasons and feel for her as she has to rely on others to get anything done, but my MIL is also a manipulative person as well - and therefore any pity flys straight out a window. Before they moved out of state, my DH used to be the one who would have to take her to work and on errands when her husband was out of town. Work was understandable, but the errands always made me angry. They were never planned, always expected to be performed when she called (regardless of our plans) and a "short trip to the grocery - maybe 15 minutes" always seemed to include a trip to the mall, a clothing store, and some out of the way place so she could get something for her grandkids. None of the extra trips were last minute though, as she would buy things in April to give as birthday or X-Mas gifts and always cheap items that were never on sale. She would drag a 45 minute trip for my husband into a two to three hour extravaganza that always started when he came home from work and had not had time to eat yet. Of course, she had already eaten, having gotten home an hour earlier by a coworker from work and never offerred to feed him or pay for gas.
Luckily, they moved away. Unfortunatly, they are looking to return next year. FIL is also having issues with his eyesight and my in-laws keep threatening that he will go blind soon and lose his ability to drive. Of course, everytime they visit, they have to stay with us and keep looking at living in our little town. Guess who will have to drive them around if they do that? Guess how far away the nearest grocery store and other large shopping centers are from us (half an hour to an hour drive away - we live in a resort town). We will just keep hoping that they pay attention to the fact that there is nothing here - no shopping, no hospital, hell, no doctors! Otherwise, we will again become their little errand boys at their beck and call.
At least that is what she thinks! [evil laughter!]
The best way to conter-act this tenorcs, is to lay down the ground rules before you pick her up each and every time she calls. You will be there at X time. If she is not ready within an acceptable time of your arrival, leave without her. You have to leave at X time, so she had better prepare another way to get home or prepare to leave when you do. If she throws a fit because she doesn't want to leave when you want her to, remind her that she already agreed to your terms and she can always find a different way home. Do prepare to negotiate with her though. If leaving a function an hour after it starts is not enough time for her to socialize, then be able to bend and give her enough time for what she wants without being a timekeeper, but keep her to the agreement. You have already done this with shopping, why not try it out on other things as well?
-------------------- I swear, it was funnier in my head. Yeah, I used to be pink. vanilla_pink. Posts: 2493 | From: California | Registered: Nov 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Trowa: I bet such people exist, but I have yet to meet one. I'm not sure if that attitude increases or decreases with age, though.
It increases with age, like the stigma against still living at home or not having a decent job.
Posts: 1325 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 2000
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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
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I don't think that learning to drive is the solution, but she does need to learn how to get around. The only thing I know about Miami is what I see on TV, but it seems to me that there are a lot of older people living there. Older people, especially older women, often do not drive. If you stop taking her shopping she might find out that the mall has shuttles or that she qualifies for paratransit. She might even make friends with another slow shopping little lady that would love to take her to the mall.
-------------------- I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.
posted
One of the things I'm hearing in this thread is the sentiment that it's okay if only one of the two spouses drives. While I wholly agree that duties tend to divide themselves in any marriage and that each spouse does for the other (and indeed that is what marriage is about, as in, my husband gets the benefit of my abilities just as I get the benefit of his), I think driving a car should be a special case where both should not only know how but be able to take over all the household's driving if and when called upon to do so.
The thing is, illness and injury eventually darken everyone's door, and often they arrive without warning. As we all know, it's not a matter of "if," it's a matter of "when" - sooner or later there's an accident or an illness or a surgery that sidelines one or the other of the spouses. When that happens, the other has to be able to pick up the slack, at least insofar as necessary physical tasks the other is unable to perform or can manage only with great difficulty. For couples that don't live in the thick of really great public transportation, suddenly having the only driver in the house unable to do any more than totter feebly from couch to kitchen adds an unnecessary additional burden onto a household already weighed down with far greater worries (such as concern about the one who is ill). While that household can get by with using taxis or by getting family and friends to give rides and pick up things, the truth is, having the only driver in that household out of commission means that family has lost a lot of its ability to care for itself. And that needn't be the case if both spouses could drive and were comfortable doing so.
Here's a small example, and it's a very small one, but I offer it anyway just as a minor illustration of what I'm getting at: Last summer and the summer before snopes had surgery. Both times I drove him home from the hospital, easily avoiding all the rough spots and dips in the road between there and here because I knew where they were, and by so doing sparing him additional discomfort. (I mention that in case you were thinking bringing him home in a taxi would have been just as good. Only those who have never had surgery then been jounced home in a cab think that.) For the next little while, I did all the household's driving, which included not only normal grocery shopping (which could have been put off in a one-driver home) but also pharmacy runs to get him painkillers and dashes to the Baskin-Robbins to get him Capuccino Blasts (which I could easily see were required for his smooth recovery, because ice cream cures all).
Likewise, if he's away and one of the cats takes sick in the middle of the night, whatever else I may go through in terms of getting that critter the care it needs, one of the things I won't be dealing with is trying to figure out how I'm going to get an ill cat to the emergency vet that's 20 miles away.
Anyway, it's just something else to think about.
Barbara "drive me crazy" Mikkelson
Posts: 2511 | From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
Barbara's examples are exactly why I wish I could drive*. The only time I have ever regretted not being able to drive was when Michael needed to be taken to the hospital in the middle of the night for something that wasn't quite ambulance bad, but bad enough that he agreed to go to the hospital. I called his dad who picked us up and drove us home from the ER afterwards. The rest of the time I can get by on foot or by transit, and I've always had him willing to take me places when needed, and I have friends and his family on whom I could call if I were really in a bind, but that was the first time I ever truly felt at a big disadvantage for the both of us (and now for the cat for the same reason Barbara pointed out).
*I have very poor depth perception and am thus very unsafe behind the wheel, so I will never be a driver. I routinely bang my shoulders into doorways or corners because I misjudge them and I have some difficulty on steps that are the same colour without a contrasting colour at the edge of the step. My new optometrist said immediately when she first saw my eyes said "You must have poor depth perception." When I said "Yes, that's why I don't drive" she responded with amazement and relief and said "It's so refreshing to hear that. The reason I take the bus is because I know just how many people are out there behind the wheel with poor eyesight." The frightening thing was when I was 16 and went in for my learner's permit in BC, I failed the depth perception portion (and I do mean failed, not even close on a single one) and they gave me a permit anyhow I drove exactly twice and haven't been behind the wheel since.
-------------------- "You're the opposite of troll. It's a compliment!" Posts: 12086 | From: Alberta | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
Barbara, I agree with you. I think it just makes things much easier if both partners can drive, even if one does the majority of the driving the majority of the time.
My grandmother has never driven. Grandpa used to travel for business, and would be gone for 2-3 weeks at least twice a year. Grandma completely depended on kids and grandkids to drive her around for groceries, doctor's visits, and errands.
Grandpa is in the early stages of dementia, and it won't be long before he is no longer able to drive (he often forgets what he's doing in the middle of a task -- honestly, I don't think he should be driving now). Once he surrenders his license, he and Grandma will depend on family for everything they need. Public transportation is more or less nonexistant in their area. If Grandma were able to drive, they could maintain some independence for a few years longer. As it is, they hate their kids meddling in their business... but their kids will know all of their comings and goings once they're giving them rides everywhere!
quote:Originally posted by Jenn: I have very poor depth perception and am thus very unsafe behind the wheel, so I will never be a driver. I routinely bang my shoulders into doorways or corners because I misjudge them and I have some difficulty on steps that are the same colour without a contrasting colour at the edge of the step. My new optometrist said immediately when she first saw my eyes said "You must have poor depth perception." When I said "Yes, that's why I don't drive" she responded with amazement and relief and said "It's so refreshing to hear that. The reason I take the bus is because I know just how many people are out there behind the wheel with poor eyesight." The frightening thing was when I was 16 and went in for my learner's permit in BC, I failed the depth perception portion (and I do mean failed, not even close on a single one) and they gave me a permit anyhow I drove exactly twice and haven't been behind the wheel since.
Jenn, I have no depth perception at all due to an eye condition, and yet I drive all the time. It's possible to learn if someone patient can teach you. I, too, have the problem of banging into doorways and tripping, but I have no more problem with driving, tickets, and accidents than any other average driver my age. I think it's a matter of learning the right way.
posted
My grandmother surrendered her car to us a few years ago; she was 85 when it happened (she's now 90). As my mom is the only member of the family in the immediate area who does not work outside the home, she frequently ends up driving her to hair appointments, doctor's visits, and on errands. I also drive her around when I am not working or when my mom needs the extra help, and my aunt (who has a full-time job) chips in when she can. My grandmother has never been demanding about it, and tries to find rides as often as possible from the senior center where she lives.
The only thing my grandmother is dangeous with now is tricking a gullible grandchild into letting her buy ice cream and frozen waffles at the grocery store.
Oh, and I'm a late-bloomer when it came to licenses, too. I got mine at age 19 because I was scared of driving. Now, unless it's nightmare traffic on I-40, I do pretty well. But I also have two friends around my age who don't drive, so it's not as uncommon as one would think.
-------------------- "But about the reindeer...what kind of a nose shines? How did he get it? Maybe it's not a reindeer after all. It could be something else." Posts: 2216 | From: Winston-Salem, NC | Registered: Nov 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Bored and Dangerous: Jenn, I have no depth perception at all due to an eye condition, and yet I drive all the time. It's possible to learn if someone patient can teach you. I, too, have the problem of banging into doorways and tripping, but I have no more problem with driving, tickets, and accidents than any other average driver my age. I think it's a matter of learning the right way.
Same here. Actually, I've only ever gotten one ticket (expired tags) and the 2 accidents I have been in were not really due to my error. (Although, I admit, if I could have prevented the second one -- but the first was just out of my hands.) In fact, I'm amazingly good with the dimensions of my car, even though I'm terrible about the dimensions of my body.
However, I do feel for the non-drivers of the world. I was the freak-of-Nashville for not getting my license until I was 19 (we really don't have much in the way of public trans. or sidewalks here, by the way). I had to take private lessons just to get the courage to do it. I even had full-blown panic attacks behind the wheel. Once, I made my mom come get me from a parking lot and wouldn't pick up my car until after midnight so the traffic would be thin.
Driving scared the bejesus out of me for a long, long time and it wasn't until very recently that I would dare to get on the interstate. (However, I do have the advantage of knowing how to get *anywhere* during bad-traffic times and avoid highways. )
I'm still a little scard of driving -- or at least more scared than most of my friends, but time cured most of my fear, as is does for most things. In fact, sometimes I even enjoy it. I really enjoyed it when I drove that nice rented car back from Atlanta. I refused to let my friend help out!
However, at almost-60, I'd say learning how to drive is probably a lost cause. I'd pay attention to some of the people who are stressing boundries, though. If it really is a problem, you need to create rules.
-------------------- If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket
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