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Author Topic: Practice What You Preach, DAMMIT!!
Malruhn
The "Was on Sale" Song


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After telling us all that a global crisis of world-wide significance (our own discussion thread) is in the works, it appears that our buddy Al Gore can't quite manage to cut back like he wants US to do.

Sorry, but if you are going to rant at us - no matter who you are, what the topic is, or how dire the consequences are - please practice what you preach... PLEASE?!?! Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker...

It seems that the last "large-persona" person to practice what he preached was Ghandi. Okay, maybe Osama bin Laden - but we really don't know enough about him.

I get sick of people telling us to do something - or NOT to do something - and then not following their own damned advice! It pissed me off when I was just a kid - and it is worse now as I am a whole lot more judgemental in my olde age. (no, not a typo... "OLDE", that's how old I feel sometimes!)

If you rant at me and tell me not to wear animal skins - you had better not be wearing leather shoes or a leather belt! If you tell me not to drive fast - I had better never see you speeding!! THIS JUST BURNS MY ASS!!! [flame] [flame] [flame]

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wanderwoman
Bluetooth Christmas


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Hmmm...I get your point but I think you're overreacting a bit.

The guy who wrote the article is from the Hoover institution and wrote a book about liberal hypocrisy (apparently not being bothered by the conservative variety), so clearly he has an axe to grind. Because Gore hasn't taken the steps this guy thinks he should doesn't mean there aren't other things Gore has done that might even be more effective. We can't expect this guy to have assessed Gore's efforts objectively.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with putting a little pressure on Gore to follow through with good examples in areas in which he is not doing that.

Regardless, it doesn't negate Gore's message. Just means he needs to live up to it better.

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"But I'm adding this to my reasons why I never really liked really good looking men much. Sheesh, what good is good looking if you have to stuff a sock in his mouth." - Sara at home
NFBSK, IIRC and other mysterious Snopester language

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Aud
We Three Blings


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You can't control any ones else's behavior. Only your own. What are YOU doing?
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Forgotten Fay
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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My mom is one of the whole "anti-fur" people... but she has to have leather shoes, and she can't get through life with a leather biker jacket. That whole argument always pissed me off...
/hijack

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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I won't wear furs but I do wear leather. Why is that hypocritical? I don't see any need for furs - I do see a need for leather. Fair enough if I am wearing my leather shoes as I torch a fur shop - call me out on that I guess, but wouldn't that be like saying I can't eat meat if I won't wear furs - we are talking very different animals after all.

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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Malruhn
The "Was on Sale" Song


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I, for one, am NOT yelling at people that the sky is falling and then not doing my part... I'm not doing much of anything - BUT I'm not letting people see me as a hypocrite by preaching and not practicing.

Wanderwoman, I'm not blasting Gore for this... though he was the focus of the article. It is just the "Do as I say, not as I do" crowd in general that burns my bottom parts. Gore just got in front of my general pissed-offedness...

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Opinions aren't excuses to remain ignorant about subjects, nor are they excuses to never examine one's beliefs & prejudices...

Babies are like tattoos. You see other peoples' & they're cool, but yours is never as good & you can't get rid of it.

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SiKboy
Deck the Malls


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The article (an opinion piece) basically says that:

1) Gore has 2 big houses.
2) He hasn't signed up for wind energy
3) "Over the years" Gore "has controlled" lots of oil company stock (As executer of his families trust).
4) There is zinc under his house that he gets money for.

1) So what? He doesnt lecture on the benefits of poverty, but on reducing your impact on the environment. Yes bigger houses need more energy to heat, but I would hazard a guess that a (former) vice president of america actually does need a pretty big house to accomidate receptions for ambassadors etc. Also, doesnt it need to be big enough for a secret service contingent to function in, or is it only former presidents who get that?

2) I'll admit this is a knock on him, fair point. Though the way the writer phrases it does rub me the wrong way. The implication that its something Gore has tried to hide seems incongruous with the fact that Gores office flat-out admitted it when they were asked. Though having said that, I would count myself as being concerned about the environment, and I have absolutely no idea if any similar scheme is available in my area. I should look into that.

3) Now, as I have basically no money, I've never looked into how trusts and things work, but the wording of that would suggest to me that the author doesnt know how many, if any, stocks of that oil company that Gore CURRENTLY controls. Also, (and again, speaking from ignorance here), if the stocks were in the "family portfolio", isnt it possible that Gore inherited the portfolio with those stocks already in it, or that he simply handed the portfolio off to a stockbroker and said "make me money with this?" without actually vetting each individual stock the stockbroker bought?

4) There isnt enough information there for me to make a judgement on. Is there a contract between Gore and the zinc mining company? How long has that contract been in force? Is it possible for gore to break that contract, and if so, what penalties would he be liable for? And in any case, its not like Gore is the poster child for "Americans should live a Zinc-free life", he is instead against pollution, so the fact that a company that he has a business relationship with has been fined for pollution is the real issue. But does this mean that every person who works for Pasminco Zinc can never open their mouth about any environmental issue?

Basically I'm not over-keen on this piece as something to influence your opinion one way or another. In the same way I dont automatically trust Al Franken when he says bad things about republicans (though I do find him vastly entertaining), I would be hesitant to trust anything "Peter Schweizer... author of Do As I Say (Not As I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy" says about a prominant liberal.

The piece is written in a misleading way that irritates me, by writing things like "Gore says he recycles and drives a hybrid", he is deliberately selecting language that casts doubt on whether gore really recycles or really drives a hybrid, but then offers no evidence of this, just the implication. And then taking a shot because rather than Gore paying the renewable energy credits for his tour, the film distributer does. Whether he pays it out of his own pocket, or had it written into his contract that it is paid by the distribution company, surely the fact that it IS paid is the important thing? Thats just nit-picking.

I guess my point of view is that Al Gore raises some real concerns, so I am less concerned about how he lives his life than I am about if he can get the message across to enough people for it to make a real measurable difference. Does it make him a hypocrite? Probably, but then name me a politician who wasnt. I still think the important thing is to listen to the message, and judge it on its message, not to bismirch the messenger

/Bonus points for using the word bismirch in the 21st century.

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bufungla
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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You know, if you hadn't drawn attention to it, I wouldnt've said anything, but ...

quote:
Originally posted by SiKboy:
I still think the important thing is to listen to the message, and judge it on its message, not to bismirch the messenger

/Bonus points for using the word bismirch in the 21st century.

... is "bismirch" an archaic spelling, or did you mean to say "besmirch"? [Wink]

buf 'btw, you've also got some spinach stuck between your teeth [Wink] ' ungla

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"Pardon him. Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature."

George Bernard Shaw, Caesar and Cleopatra

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SiKboy
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by bufungla:
You know, if you hadn't drawn attention to it, I wouldnt've said anything, but ...

quote:
Originally posted by SiKboy:
I still think the important thing is to listen to the message, and judge it on its message, not to bismirch the messenger

/Bonus points for using the word bismirch in the 21st century.

... is "bismirch" an archaic spelling, or did you mean to say "besmirch"? [Wink]

buf 'btw, you've also got some spinach stuck between your teeth [Wink] ' ungla

Ah, dang it all to heck, I dont believe I got "incongruous" right, then messed up "besmirch"... Ah well, I never could spell worth a shirt...

And now I have spinach in my teeth AND my flies are undone... Some mornings its just not worth chewing through the straps.

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This Space For Rent.

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Johnny Slick
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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I don't get the "if you're against fur you shouldn't wear leather" argument. I don't know if people realize this, but there are these things called "cows" that we slaughter on a regular basis for a special kind of meat called "beef." Now, all the skin from those cows, it would be just laying around if it weren't for a need for leather. It's not as if you can take out all the insides of a cow and then toss the skin out onto a pasture and it'll grow back up again. Admittedly, it would be cool if cows could do that, but they aren't cool so there you go.

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Give big space to the festive dog that makes sport in roadway. Avoid entanglement of dog with wheel spokes.

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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So fur is okay as long as we eat mink steak?

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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Seaboe Muffinchucker
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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The leather/fur argument that makes sense is, IMO, that if you are a vegetarian fur hater, it is hypocritical for you to wear leather.

Seaboe

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Education is not the filling of a hard drive, but the lighting of a bulb. -- Yeats via Esprise Me

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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
So fur is okay as long as we eat mink steak?

That's the thing. I guess the argument for leather but not fur is that it's okay to kill an animal so long as someone eats it.

But mink farmers don't throw away the rest of the mink. It's used for mink oil and cosmetics. The remaining parts are rendered or used as feed for other animals or even bait for crab fishing.

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Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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Noemi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Slick:
I don't get the "if you're against fur you shouldn't wear leather" argument. I don't know if people realize this, but there are these things called "cows" that we slaughter on a regular basis for a special kind of meat called "beef." Now, all the skin from those cows, it would be just laying around if it weren't for a need for leather.

Exactly. The skins are a byproduct of eating meat and making leather from them means less waste. It makes me wonder if the people who make that aregument realize they are saying we should waste all that. (This is true of most leathers, including deer and elk, because those hides are purchased from the locker plants that butcher wild game for hunters. Exotic skins are a different matter of course, but in some cases they are from animals like cane toads that are considered pests so it is a matter of not wasting there as well.)

Noemi

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Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
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Noemi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Slick:
I don't get the "if you're against fur you shouldn't wear leather" argument. I don't know if people realize this, but there are these things called "cows" that we slaughter on a regular basis for a special kind of meat called "beef." Now, all the skin from those cows, it would be just laying around if it weren't for a need for leather.

Exactly. The skins are a byproduct of eating meat and making leather from them means less waste. It makes me wonder if the people who make that aregument realize they are saying we should waste all that. (This is true of most leathers, including deer and elk, because those hides are purchased from the locker plants that butcher wild game for hunters. Exotic skins are a different matter of course, but in some cases they are from animals like cane toads that are considered pests so it is a matter of not wasting there as well.)

Noemi

--------------------
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
My blog, no guarantees about witty or intelligent content. My current projects.
Coveted Beads <---- our eBay store, new items being added somewhat regularly

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Seaboe Muffinchucker
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
So fur is okay as long as we eat mink steak?

That's the thing. I guess the argument for leather but not fur is that it's okay to kill an animal so long as someone eats it.
Actually, a fair number of the objectors think that the way minks (although not cows, apparently) are raised is itself unacceptable.

Seaboe

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Education is not the filling of a hard drive, but the lighting of a bulb. -- Yeats via Esprise Me

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Zorro
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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My sister went through a phase where she decided she was a vegetarian. Now, I have nothing against vegetarians overall, but she always irritated me, because she proceeded to lecture the rest of us on our meat-eating ways: "It's not RIGHT that we SLAUGHTER the poor cows just so we can have HAMBURGERS! We shouldn't USE animals for FOOD or FASHION!" I finally got fed up and snapped back one day, "Nice leather shoes there, little sister."

If she wanted to be a vegetarian because it wasn't right to use the poor animals for our own base needs/wants, then s*** or get off the pot- go all or nothing, IMHO. Oh, yeah, and don't lecture me while I'm enjoying a nice hamburger. [Wink]

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-John Keating, "Dead Poets Society"

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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I think I understand why fur is bad, but leather is okay. As long as we aren't using the animal for its primary use, then it is okay. A cow's primary purpose is meat, so it is okay to use its skin. A mink's primary purpose is fur, so it is not okay to use its fur.

Gen "Who wants a baby seal steak?" Yus

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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ULTRAGLORIA
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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They eat seals in Newfoundland.

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A Lie can run around the world before the Truth can get its boots on. - Terry Pratchett

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions; but everyone is not entitled to their own facts. - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Avu
I Saw Three Shipments


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quote:
Originally posted by ULTRAGOTHA:
They eat seals in Newfoundland.

And in other places. [Razz]

But they don't taste good! They do make good shoes, though.

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Lawgiver
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Zorro:
My sister went through a phase where she decided she was a vegetarian. Now, I have nothing against vegetarians overall, but she always irritated me, because she proceeded to lecture the rest of us on our meat-eating ways: "It's not RIGHT that we SLAUGHTER the poor cows just so we can have HAMBURGERS! We shouldn't USE animals for FOOD or FASHION!" I finally got fed up and snapped back one day, "Nice leather shoes there, little sister."

If she wanted to be a vegetarian because it wasn't right to use the poor animals for our own base needs/wants, then s*** or get off the pot- go all or nothing, IMHO. Oh, yeah, and don't lecture me while I'm enjoying a nice hamburger. [Wink]

Here is what gets me about vegetarians. They are just as hypocritical unless they are only buying organically grown and harvested without machines. Having grown up in the country, I can tell you from experience that a lot of animals are killed in fields with tractors and other farming equipment. Deer, mice, cute little bunnies, etc. At least with meat, every part of the animals are used, when they are killed in the field, they are usually just tossed to the side. Just my .02 YMMV

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Joe Bentley
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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It's easy, people are more violently oppossed to fur then to leather because it's easier to harrass and throw paint on old rich women then on Hell's Angels.

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"Existence has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long." - Rorschach, The Watchmen

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Esprise Me
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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I always figured it had more to do with whether the individual oppossed to eating/wearing said animal thought said animal was cute. When I've asked people why they eat fish but not land animals, or why they eat chicken but not beef, or why they wear leather but not fur, there's usually a bullshit excuse ("fish don't feel pain!" "Eating chicken is better for the environment!" "They don't trap and torture wild cows the way they do with minks!") but, when pressed, will let it slip that they simply feel more sympathy for the animal(s) they hold sacred. Facts about the substantial cognitive abilities of the non-sympathetic creatures or the real environmental impact of fisheries/hatcheries/etc. do little to sway them.

I'm in a camp that is perhaps equally reprehensible. I am well aware of the environmental impact of modern animal husbandry practices and the extent of the creatures' suffering, and my liberal heart bleeds for them, yet I can't bring myself to give up meat or leather. I buy organic when I can, to promote more sustainable and less cruel farming practices, but I don't always eat vegetarian when cruelty-free meat isn't an option. Sometimes, I just gotta have a steak.

Reading the diamond thread made me wonder how many times a day the average person indirectly facilitates immoral practices without even realizing it. Before I read all that, I had some vague idea that some people in Africa were somehow exploited during the mining of some diamonds, but I had no idea of the extent of it.

I also wonder if it's even possible to live a completely moral life, if your standards include not even indirectly facilitating something you find morally repugnant. At some point, your principles have to bow to the demands of reality. I suspect anyone who can honestly proclaim himself to be not the least bit hypocritical either has abnormally low moral standards or is completely ignorant.

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"If God wrote it, the grammar must be infallible. Perhaps it is we who are mistaken." -MapleLeaf

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Silas Sparkhammer
I Saw V-Chips Come Sailing In


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Where is the hypocrisy? Gore lives in a big house. So what? Is there any evidence that he deliberately wastes energy? Does he run the A/C with the windows open? Does he drive a gas-guzzler?

In order to be a friend of the ecology, now, I have to live in a shed? But the oil-millionaires can live in mansions, and that's okay, because they're enemies of the earth's biosphere, and thus get to reap the rewards as they rape the land and seas?

What a crock of (as it were) foetid dingo's kidneys! I suppose, now, you will claim that you actually admire the Unabomber, because he actually did something about over-cutting of the forests!

The inanity of the OP is this: nations are burning oil and coal by the gigaton. The ozone layer has deteriorated in million-mile swaths. But so long as one guy who made a movie about it lives in a big house, then the whole thing is just a hypocritical fancy in your emotional little minds, and the wave of extinctions and the rise of sea levels and disease levels is just hunky dory with you.

Classic fallacy of distraction. Point a finger at a celebrity who popularized an issue, showing his or her pecadilloes, and that negates anything they may have said about the actual issue.

"There's no such thing as Global Warming; Al Gore lives in a big house."

I'm going to go read Bertolt Brecht the rest of the evening; he knew exactly what it feels like to watch the darkness creep forward.

Silas

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Freshman
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Esprise Me:
I always figured it had more to do with whether the individual oppossed to eating/wearing said animal thought said animal was cute. When I've asked people why they eat fish but not land animals, or why they eat chicken but not beef, or why they wear leather but not fur, there's usually a bullshit excuse ("fish don't feel pain!" "Eating chicken is better for the environment!" "They don't trap and torture wild cows the way they do with minks!") but, when pressed, will let it slip that they simply feel more sympathy for the animal(s) they hold sacred. Facts about the substantial cognitive abilities of the non-sympathetic creatures or the real environmental impact of fisheries/hatcheries/etc. do little to sway them.

I'm in a camp that is perhaps equally reprehensible. I am well aware of the environmental impact of modern animal husbandry practices and the extent of the creatures' suffering, and my liberal heart bleeds for them, yet I can't bring myself to give up meat or leather. I buy organic when I can, to promote more sustainable and less cruel farming practices, but I don't always eat vegetarian when cruelty-free meat isn't an option. Sometimes, I just gotta have a steak.

Reading the diamond thread made me wonder how many times a day the average person indirectly facilitates immoral practices without even realizing it. Before I read all that, I had some vague idea that some people in Africa were somehow exploited during the mining of some diamonds, but I had no idea of the extent of it.

I also wonder if it's even possible to live a completely moral life, if your standards include not even indirectly facilitating something you find morally repugnant. At some point, your principles have to bow to the demands of reality. I suspect anyone who can honestly proclaim himself to be not the least bit hypocritical either has abnormally low moral standards or is completely ignorant.

I completly understand, I definitely am aware that the raising of cattle and other livestock has unfortunate unpleasantries and I respect and admire those who are able to be vegetarian. I think in a way, hypocrisy is a part of nature, it shows we're humans

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Silas Sparkhammer:
Where is the hypocrisy? Gore lives in a big house. So what? Is there any evidence that he deliberately wastes energy? Does he run the A/C with the windows open? Does he drive a gas-guzzler?

In order to be a friend of the ecology, now, I have to live in a shed? But the oil-millionaires can live in mansions, and that's okay, because they're enemies of the earth's biosphere, and thus get to reap the rewards as they rape the land and seas?

What a crock of (as it were) foetid dingo's kidneys! I suppose, now, you will claim that you actually admire the Unabomber, because he actually did something about over-cutting of the forests!

The inanity of the OP is this: nations are burning oil and coal by the gigaton. The ozone layer has deteriorated in million-mile swaths. But so long as one guy who made a movie about it lives in a big house, then the whole thing is just a hypocritical fancy in your emotional little minds, and the wave of extinctions and the rise of sea levels and disease levels is just hunky dory with you.

Classic fallacy of distraction. Point a finger at a celebrity who popularized an issue, showing his or her pecadilloes, and that negates anything they may have said about the actual issue.

"There's no such thing as Global Warming; Al Gore lives in a big house."

I'm going to go read Bertolt Brecht the rest of the evening; he knew exactly what it feels like to watch the darkness creep forward.

Silas

As always, Silas, you've cut right to the heart of the matter.

--------------------
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

Posts: 18428 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Freshman
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Christie:
quote:
Originally posted by Silas Sparkhammer:
Where is the hypocrisy? Gore lives in a big house. So what? Is there any evidence that he deliberately wastes energy? Does he run the A/C with the windows open? Does he drive a gas-guzzler?

In order to be a friend of the ecology, now, I have to live in a shed? But the oil-millionaires can live in mansions, and that's okay, because they're enemies of the earth's biosphere, and thus get to reap the rewards as they rape the land and seas?

What a crock of (as it were) foetid dingo's kidneys! I suppose, now, you will claim that you actually admire the Unabomber, because he actually did something about over-cutting of the forests!

The inanity of the OP is this: nations are burning oil and coal by the gigaton. The ozone layer has deteriorated in million-mile swaths. But so long as one guy who made a movie about it lives in a big house, then the whole thing is just a hypocritical fancy in your emotional little minds, and the wave of extinctions and the rise of sea levels and disease levels is just hunky dory with you.

Classic fallacy of distraction. Point a finger at a celebrity who popularized an issue, showing his or her pecadilloes, and that negates anything they may have said about the actual issue.

"There's no such thing as Global Warming; Al Gore lives in a big house."

I'm going to go read Bertolt Brecht the rest of the evening; he knew exactly what it feels like to watch the darkness creep forward.

Silas

As always, Silas, you've cut right to the heart of the matter.
Silas, you rock, can I use "There's no such thing as Global Warming; Al Gore lives in a big House." as a signature?

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"High-Five!" - Borat

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Wild Card
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by Silas Sparkhammer:

What a crock of (as it were) foetid dingo's kidneys! I suppose, now, you will claim that you actually admire the Unabomber, because he actually did something about over-cutting of the forests!

That's a crock of foetid dingo's kidneys, and a completely inane comment.

ETA: I agree with your basic ideas, though.

--------------------
"It's a perfect system...unless it screws up." -Biology Professor

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Casey, making hot chocolate
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Long ago, I remember my mom making cookies, and grabbing a spoon. She took the bowl, turned around, and I could tell she was eating raw dough. Her response? "Don't eat raw cookie dough."

What do you think I do every time I make cookies? [Big Grin]

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"To be or not to be! That is the question! Now, will you answer, dare, double dare, or take the Physical Challenge?" --Mark Summers as Hamlet
Countdown: 177 days and counting... or less. My blog. 14 keyboards owed.

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Silas Sparkhammer
I Saw V-Chips Come Sailing In


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quote:
Originally posted by HSSenior:
Silas, you rock, can I use "There's no such thing as Global Warming; Al Gore lives in a big House." as a signature?

I would be honored beyond my ability and competence to express. Thank you!

Silas (writing when angry is like writing when drunk: the results do tend to be memorable.)

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Freshman
We Three Blings


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your welcome

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"High-Five!" - Borat

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Eccles9
I Saw Three Shipments


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quote:
Originally posted by GenYus:
I think I understand why fur is bad, but leather is okay. As long as we aren't using the animal for its primary use, then it is okay. A cow's primary purpose is meat, so it is okay to use its skin. A mink's primary purpose is fur, so it is not okay to use its fur.

Gen "Who wants a baby seal steak?" Yus

And here I was thinking that the real primary purpose of a cow was as an organic device for the manufacture of more cows. Or just being cow like, you know, eating grass, breathing, mooving about...

Or is that too bovinocentric (?) a view point?

Pity they're so damn tasty...

Eccles'rip off the horns and slap it on a plate'9

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'Do not follow in the footsteps of the wise, seek instead what they sought' Matsuo Basho

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First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Silas Sparkhammer:
Where is the hypocrisy? Gore lives in a big house. So what? Is there any evidence that he deliberately wastes energy?

Well, is consuming vastly more than you need wasteful, or isn't it?

Al Gore lives with Tipper in houses totalling somewhere over 14,000 square feet.

By comparison, my house which I share with J is just under 1,000 square feet.

Admittedly, I would like a bigger house. 2,000 square feet would be ideal, enough for a decent library and a guest room for visitors, maybe a second bathroom.

Not 8 bathrooms.

By their nature, large houses require more energy be spent in heating, water, gas, and other resources than do smaller homes.

quote:
Classic fallacy of distraction. Point a finger at a celebrity who popularized an issue, showing his or her pecadilloes, and that negates anything they may have said about the actual issue.

"There's no such thing as Global Warming; Al Gore lives in a big house."

Of course you realize, Malruhn never said anything approaching this, so you've essentially replied to a "distraction fallacy" with a "strawman fallacy."

--------------------
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle

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Silas Sparkhammer
I Saw V-Chips Come Sailing In


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quote:
Originally posted by First of Two:
quote:
Originally posted by Silas Sparkhammer:
Where is the hypocrisy? Gore lives in a big house. So what? Is there any evidence that he deliberately wastes energy?

Well, is consuming vastly more than you need wasteful, or isn't it?


What does anyone "need?" We should all live in sheds, right?

Gore is a national-level politician; he hosts parties, seminars, guests, and vips.

Or...maybe the President of the United States should just room over at the Sheraton?

quote:
quote:

"There's no such thing as Global Warming; Al Gore lives in a big house."

Of course you realize, Malruhn never said anything approaching this, so you've essentially replied to a "distraction fallacy" with a "strawman fallacy."
Of course you realize, I never said that Malruhn ever said anything approaching this, so you've engaged in both fallacies.

My point; care to play again?

Silas (can out-Herod Herod any day of the week)

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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Silas Sparkhammer:
quote:
Originally posted by First of Two:
quote:
Originally posted by Silas Sparkhammer:
Where is the hypocrisy? Gore lives in a big house. So what? Is there any evidence that he deliberately wastes energy?

Well, is consuming vastly more than you need wasteful, or isn't it?


What does anyone "need?" We should all live in sheds, right?

Gore is a national-level politician; he hosts parties, seminars, guests, and vips.

Or...maybe the President of the United States should just room over at the Sheraton?
...

Ah bullshit on both accounts. You can't compare the needs of the president of the United States with a former Vice President. Or are you suggesting that every national level politician should have a replica of the white house for entertaining.

One hardly needs a house the size of Gore's for entertaining. I regularly entertain 20-40 people comfortably in my 1400 square foot house. Maybe Gore needs to try this, "I know my house isn't big, but I truely care about the environment and I'd rather be cramped when entertaining than use up all those extra resources just to own a bigger house."

--------------------
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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