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Author Topic: a stop sign means STOP not kinda stop
zman977
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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This is one of those rants I've been meaning to do for a while so here it goes.
We have a four way stop just down the street form our house. The problem is it seems to be invisible to everyone else. People just ignore it and drive right through. Well, on Tuesday two people decided to do this at the same time and they met in the middle. Nice loud crash. Luckily no one was hurt but one of these days someone is going to get killed if they don't realize that stop means stop. Not kinda stop or sorta stop. It means put your foot on the break until what ever you are driveling comes to a complete stop, wait until it is your turn to go and then push on the gas peddle and move through the intersection. How hard can this be. Some people don't seem to grasp the concept that a four way stop means you stop from every direction. Seems like once an hour you can hear breaks squeal because people can't figure out this simple concept. I'm waiting for the day when someone's child gets killed or seriously injured because some idiot cannot figure out what a stop sign means.

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Paulie Jay
O Little Down-Payment of Bethlehem


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I always wonder about four-way stop intersections. Do you reckon a roundabout would make things flow a bit better?

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Green Eggs and Spam
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Hear hear!!! It is scary how people just don't pay attention.

I was in an accident last October when some woman ran a stop sign. It wasn't a four-way stop -- I was traveling down a two-lane road at 45 mph and she came up this side street. She didn't even slow down but rolled out right in front of me without looking and I couldn't stop in time. I couldn't go around her because cars were coming the other direction and I didn't want to have a head-on collision with them! Of course it happened so fast I didn't have time to think about it anyway. The worst thing is that this woman had her kid in a carseat in the back. I'm just glad he wasn't hurt. Even though it wasn't my fault, I would have felt awful if the kid was hurt in any way. (I don't have kids, but I imagine I would be more careful than that if I did!) My old car was totaled, and my neck will never be the same. Stupid, stupid, stupid driver.

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Jocko's Jolly
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I've just posted recently about the girl who came through a stop sign in front of me (and I had kids in my car). She apparently stopped, then came right on through. I couldn't avoid hitting her either, but luckily the kids weren't hurt at all, just scared. I, however, am awaiting results of an MRI to see if I tore something in my right shoulder (they think I did). And I was going slow (about 30). I can't even imagine what could have happened if she had puled this stunt on the highway or a busier street. Idiots!

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sherri_lu
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quote:
Originally posted by Paulie Jay:
I always wonder about four-way stop intersections. Do you reckon a roundabout would make things flow a bit better?

No, roundabouts are commie plots designed to keep Americans driving in circles
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Aptenodytes_Forsteriis
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quote:
Originally posted by Paulie Jay:
I always wonder about four-way stop intersections. Do you reckon a roundabout would make things flow a bit better?

Oh please don't bring the roundabout to the midwest! I realize that most of the world is in love with the traffic circle/roundabout but IMHO they slow things down and cause more wrecks than a simple 4 way intersection. It's not that hard to stop and take turns; and all it takes is one scared old lady to block everyone in a roundabout. Driving in a circle may somehow be more satisfying than a 30 second stop, but I really don't see the benefit.

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Green Eggs and Spam
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I hate roundabouts, mostly because I'm not used to them.
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Doug4.7
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quote:
Originally posted by Green Eggs and Spam:
I hate roundabouts, mostly because I'm not used to them.

My BIL (the highway engineer) LIKES roundabouts. The accident rates are about the same as 4-way stops, but the type of accidents are different. 4-ways get 't-bone' hits, which are more fatal than the side-swipe type hits that happen in a roundabout.

Besides, I would play Yes while driving them...

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cubbie
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Jacko, that's what happened to my mom about a week after she got her new (used) car. She and the boy that hit her were ok, but my mom needed to replace the rear axle on the back of the car. The kid just ran the stop sign.

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Sara at home
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If there was enough traffic to build a traffic circle, there would be a traffic light there already, not a four way stop. Most of the four way stops I'm familiar with are in residental areas of cities -- not room to build a circle -- or on back country roads -- no need to build a circle.

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Aptenodytes_Forsteriis
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quote:
Originally posted by Sara at home:
If there was enough traffic to build a traffic circle, there would be a traffic light there already, not a four way stop. Most of the four way stops I'm familiar with are in residental areas of cities -- not room to build a circle -- or on back country roads -- no need to build a circle.

If you build a traffic circle the traffic will come [Big Grin]
edited to move stuff to a more appropriate forum.

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Quttaus
I Saw Three Shipments


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There are quite a few accidents at the traffic circle near my old job, for the same reasons that they happen at zman's 4-way.

The circle has Yield signs at all the entrances, but people in general pay them no attention whatsoever. Saw a couple accidents myself, and Lord knows how many near misses when some fool ignored the yield sign.

It used to be especially fun, coming home from work at 8 AM with the sun in your eyes and praying very hard that noone pulled out in front of you [Roll Eyes]

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lioness
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From what I've heard, the person who desgined the traffic circle in my city was killed in an accident while driving the circle. It may be an UL, but people don't pay attention to the "Yield" signs at the entrances.

I've had some close calls from 4-way stops when someone has only slowed down in the typical "California stop." On more than one occasion, the idiot was talking on their cellphone.

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FrogFeathers
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There is a round-about at the doctor's clinic where I take my son for his broken arm check-ups. There are clear signs as to which way to go, exits labeled and everything.

Still, people manage to go the wrong way, try and turn on the one-way bits and all. *sigh*

As for stop signs, we live at the "top" of a T-shaped intersection (when you stop at the stop sign, your headlights shine in my living room). Nobody hardly ever stops. They sometimes don't even slow down. And in the winter, we've had a few cars slide across the street and into our yard on the slick roads. (it comes down a hill to the stop).

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"Is it ME? Am I a MAGNET for these idiots?"~Pearl Forrester MST3K
Die-Hard Engineers, Big Red One my Dad's website
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Mr. Furious
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There's an all-way stop sign at my corner. Most people at least make an attempt, but a lot of people just blow through. I sometimes yell at them (usually a sarcastic "don't bother to stop," sometimes "STOP SIGN!") if I'm outside. Most of them look at me like they had no idea they did anything wrong. It amazes me that people will blow through the stop sign and give me a "howdy neighbor" wave when they see me in the driveway. I disgustedly point at the stop sign when they do that. I'm not going to be friendly when you engage in behavior that could very easily result in the death of someone in my family, douche nozzle.

I am very much against vandalism, but I sometimes wish I could throw eggs (and get away with it, of course) at vehicles driven by people who blow through the stop sign.

I did get a guy shitcanned once, and it made me happy. We hire a landscaper to take care of the common areas of the development. Once, when I was outside, I saw their truck not even slow down at the stop sign. I called our management company and instructed them to complain. The guy driving the truck got fired. Good. If you're such an asshole that you do something like that in the development that pays you, you deserve to be out on your ass.

If the company name is identifiable on the vehicle, I always call and complain. I hope anybody who ignores the stop sign gets fired, though I know most get no punishment whatsoever. Especially those ****ing Papa John's drivers. Losing their job is too good for them.

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Corwin
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On roundabouts: Apparently, somebody in Buffalo loves the goddamned things, despite not knowing how they're supposed to work. For instance, several of them have stop signs at their entrances. One of them has the stop signs plus traffic lights in the middle of the circle.

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quiltsbypam
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People regularly ignore the lights at the intersection outside my work. Apparently, red is only a suggestion. I drive an hour to get to work; country, city and highway; and the most dangerous part is crossing the road on foot after I get there.

We have a traffic circle in my hometown and I love it. It's been there a long time, and apparently people know how to use it. Works like a charm.

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Brad from Georgia
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Oddly, around here four-way stop intersections have a much lower incidence of accidents than stoplighted intersections (verbing nouns, you gotta love it).

However, when there is an accident at one of the four-way stops, it tends to be serious. One of my friends, a teaching colleague in our department, died several years ago when a man driving a heavy truck just blasted through a four-way stop and T-boned her compact car.

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Ben Who
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"They" (God knows who) did a study around here recently on people stopping for stoplights and stop signs. I think the findings went something like "Most people do it, but they all think that everyone ELSE is doing it." That is to say, they seem to think the idea of 4-way stops (and stop lights, and stop signs, and whatever else it takes to stop a car) is a good idea unless it applies to them personally.

My roommate claims to have seen municipal buses run stoplights. I've seen cars engage in a "daisy chaining" practice where one or two cars rides a lead car's bumper through a four-way stop, under the influence of the belief that it's legal to go through a stop sign if the other driver didn't have a chance to put his foot on the gas yet. This same belief sends cars thundering through stoplights at highway speeds five full seconds after the light turns red--"The police won't pull me over if I can claim that I couldn't stop in time." (The intersection camera glaring down at your car and taking a high-resolution picture of your license plate might disagree.)

Love, Who?

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Cervus
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quote:
Originally posted by Frog_Feathers:
Nobody hardly ever stops.

Does that mean they do? [fish]

Stuart, Florida has an infamous roundabout called Confusion Corner, comprised of 7 streets and a railroad crossing. Don't even attempt to follow the signs; you'll end up stopped on the RR tracks. (And, yes, it's spelled wrong on the map.)

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Won't somebody please think of the adults!

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Logoboros
We Three Blings


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Alright, the other classic 4-way stop etiquette question: Who goes in what order?

I'm a firm believer in the "first-come-first-serve" principle -- that is, all the cars that were stopped at the intersection before you stopped get to go, then you.

But I know the "clockwise" and "counter-clockwise" orders are also both popular (and people tend to be very defensive about them).

--Logoboros

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"If Men were Wise, the Most arbitrary Princes could not hurt them. If they are not wise, the Freest Government is compelld to be a Tyranny."

--William Blake

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glisp42
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Round here we figger it ain't just ettiquette its the law!

Seriously, it is not a matter of ettiquette it's the law in your(general) state. In Kansas it's first come first serve which leads to the game of stop sign chicken. I pull up to a stop sign and notice that the other driver was a second sooner getting to the stop sign. Now begins the game. We stare at each other, both of us yeilding the right of way to the other. Then we both go...and stop. We make obscene hand gestures at each other and sacrifice a chicken. Then comes the hand signal to go ahead, and finally I'm on my way.

In cases of both cars getting there at the same time or approaching an uncontrolled intersection, Kansas law says that the person on the left has the right of way.

ETA: I'm okay with roundabouts as long as they are done the right way. My hometown of Lawrence put in a bunch of roundabouts to replace four way stops. Now we have a 20 million dollar traffic circles instead of stop signs that can't be navigated in anything larger than a 4 door sedan. Schoolbuses now have to take alternate routes which costs the city more money and sends the town even deeper into debt. Did I mention that they put all these freaking things in instead of repairing the 100 year old sewer?? Which by the way has gone critical and needs work done right the NFBSK now! Did I mention I hate my hometown?

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Elphaba Fabala Elphie Fae
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Originally posted by Cervus:
quote:
Originally posted by Frog_Feathers:
Nobody hardly ever stops.

Does that mean they do? [fish]

Stuart, Florida has an infamous roundabout called Confusion Corner, comprised of 7 streets and a railroad crossing. Don't even attempt to follow the signs; you'll end up stopped on the RR tracks. (And, yes, it's spelled wrong on the map.)

You beat me to it! I grew up in Stuart and the most terrifying part of learning how to drive was learning how to navigate Confusion Corner without getting killed. Successfully getting through Confusion Corner involves not only obeying the signs, but dodging the other drivers who aren't obeying the signs in front of them.

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mags
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I believe it is officially first come first serve, and if two arrive at the same time, the person on the left goes first, in Ohio.

I really just wish more people learned the proper response to non-working (blinking red) or powerless traffic lights. It becomes an all way stop, first come, first serve.

We frequently had problems with our traffic lights when I lived out in Southern Cali, where they'd start the red blinking. Particularly bad, because often at least one of the roads was divided 4 lanes, with a left turn lane as well. It became like the wild west, everyone just went as they became brave enough to dare it.

I thought it was bad enough, until a couple weeks ago back here in Ohio. We lost power, and after three hours without our technology (our UPSes only kept us going on the computers about a half hour) I got a little stir crazy, so we decided to see where the power was back, and go out to dinner. On the way there, there were a couple traffic lights without power. Most people seemed to realize how to do it, but at each, we were presented with people speeding up to them, pretending that if they weren't lit they didn't exist, so they didn't need to stop (they did get shy when they saw cars in the intersection in front of them, and managed to stop, rather than actually breezing through, though). It was still daylight, so there was no "I'm not familiar with this road, so I didn't know there should be a light there" excuse. I was just so thankful the power had come back when we did go back home after dark, I'm sure some severe accidents would have happened at those intersections.

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Logoboros
We Three Blings


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Oh, I know stop-sign protocal is a law, but it's one of those laws most people just assume agrees with their preferred technique without actually knowing.

Also, if the car "to the left" goes, what if the cars in question are facing each other, both trying to make left-hand turns in a small intersection? (My experience: this yields the chicken game, as glisp42 has described it.)

--Logoboros

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"If Men were Wise, the Most arbitrary Princes could not hurt them. If they are not wise, the Freest Government is compelld to be a Tyranny."

--William Blake

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WildaBeast
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Furious:
There's an all-way stop sign at my corner. Most people at least make an attempt, but a lot of people just blow through.

My old apartment was right by a four-way stop. My observation was that most people were just "going through the motions" of stopping. They'd slow down, and maybe even come to a complete stop for a split second, and then immediately hit the gas without actually looking for traffic and pedestrians.

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Die Capacitrix
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by mags:
I believe it is officially first come first serve, and if two arrive at the same time, the person on the left goes first, in Ohio.

Is this really the rule in Ohio? I've always understood that it was the person on the RIGHT goes first.
quote:
Generally, the driver who stops first continues first.
If two drivers stop simultaneously at stop signs at a single intersection, the general rule is that the car on the right has the right of way.

Answers.com

Friend of ours got t-boned in an intersection that had blinking lights. This is typically done after rush hour (7 pm or later) as many intersections do not have that much traffic. Jaws of Life, ambulance, skull fracture, 5 ribs, two fractures in the leg and minimum three weeks in the hospital, not to mention physical therapy because someone was in a hurry (not our friend).

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FrogFeathers
Grandma Got Run Over By a Gift Card


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quote:
Originally posted by Cervus:
quote:
Originally posted by Frog_Feathers:
Nobody hardly ever stops.

Does that mean they do? [fish]


Thanks for the fish. [Wink] I blame lack of sleep this week for that.

They rarely stop.

Yesterday, I was driving down my street (no stop signs for my route) when a woman in car pulled up to a stop sign on a side road. Instead of waiting the two seconds for my truck to pass, she rolled up (didn't stop) and then slammed on her gas pedal to get out before I reached her. Granted, I know people don't like to follow trucks when they drive, but she didn't pull out to go in my direction, she was going the opposite way. Why on earth she couldn't wait two whole seconds for me to pass is beyond me. It resulted in me having to hit my brakes and exclaim: "Nice driving, dumbass!" out my window.

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"Is it ME? Am I a MAGNET for these idiots?"~Pearl Forrester MST3K
Die-Hard Engineers, Big Red One my Dad's website
"Must be a 'snopes' thing..." ~my entire family when I try to explain something.

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Paulie Jay
O Little Down-Payment of Bethlehem


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I brought up the roundabout suggestion mainly because of the way that they are constructed in Australia - usually you can't just drive straight over the top of them, even the small ones, which means that you have no choice than to slow down, even if it's just a little bit.

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Silkenreindeer
Wassaleing


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Having driven in the UK for nearly a year, after growing up in the US (Pennsylvania, widely regarded as the state with the worst paved roads), I do have to say that my opinion of roundabouts has shifted from "Why would I want to go left to turn right" to "These work surprisingly well".

Mini-roundabouts are a great way of handling four-way intersections in low-traffic residential areas. You don't have to stop unless there's someone coming from the right... which I find less frustrating than some roads I've driven on in Suburbia and Small Town America, where you have to come to a complete stop every intersection whether or not there's traffic coming in the other direction. And with mini-roundabouts, you don't end up with the "Oh, you go", "No, you go", "No, you go", "Okay, I'll go", "Okay, I'll go", *CRASH* situation where nobody is sure who has right-of-way.

Posts: 494 | From: Epping, Essex, UK | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Purple Iguana
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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We have a 3-way stop near me. It's a 4-way intersection, but being that one of the roads is coming off of the freeway, those folks don't have to stop, lest it clog up the off-ramps something fierce.

Going clockwise... Way #2 leads up the hill to where I live. Way #3 goes into a cemetery. Way #4 goes down the hill, over the tracks, and around the bend to Walmart and other various shopping.

I give this explanation, because it is remarkable the startling regularity with which people from Way #4 will run the stop sign, never mind they don't have the right of way, just because they're sick of waiting for so long. I once was nearly smacked into by a lady who waved a reprimanding finger at me for "running" my stop sign (I was coming off the freeway at the time, so I didn't HAVE a stop sign!!).

But this must be a pretty regular occurrence, because yesterday, I was coming down the hill to drop off a donation to Salvation Army and do some shopping, and someone who was coming off the freeway actually came to a complete stop. I waved them on, but they waved ME on. They didn't have to stop!! It's just amazing to me.

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They just don't make crazed, beserk robots like they used to. --Sheen Estevez, Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius

If I manage to post something swipe-worthy that you would like to make your sig, you may do so with my blessing.

Posts: 2486 | From: East Stroudsburg, PA | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Purple Iguana
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Paulie Jay:
I always wonder about four-way stop intersections. Do you reckon a roundabout would make things flow a bit better?

American's don't know how to handle roundabouts. Believe me, I've lived in a couple places in the northeast that have them, and they're a complete disaster. One intersection in rural Massachusetts has an off-center roundabout, so that traffic coming from one of the directions just blasts through at full speed without slowing down. It had been a perfectly effective 4-way stop, but they changed it. I'm surprised no one has been killed!

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They just don't make crazed, beserk robots like they used to. --Sheen Estevez, Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius

If I manage to post something swipe-worthy that you would like to make your sig, you may do so with my blessing.

Posts: 2486 | From: East Stroudsburg, PA | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Purple Iguana
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by Logoboros:
Oh, I know stop-sign protocal is a law, but it's one of those laws most people just assume agrees with their preferred technique without actually knowing.

Also, if the car "to the left" goes, what if the cars in question are facing each other, both trying to make left-hand turns in a small intersection? (My experience: this yields the chicken game, as glisp42 has described it.)

--Logoboros

If I'm involved in the intersection, I will wave the other person through. I'm totally cool waiting if it'll save me getting hit by another car. I'm usually not in that big of a hurry.

If I'm not involved in the intersection, then the stupid NFBSKers can hit each other for all I care. Too dumb to be courteous to one another means they get to pay for it later.

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They just don't make crazed, beserk robots like they used to. --Sheen Estevez, Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius

If I manage to post something swipe-worthy that you would like to make your sig, you may do so with my blessing.

Posts: 2486 | From: East Stroudsburg, PA | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
mags
Jingle Bell Hock


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As for Ohio, I went to the BMV website to check for sure, and it turns out there isn't anything official. The closest in the Digest of Ohio Motor Vehicle Laws is, under the heading of Yielding:
quote:
A driver must yield the right of way:
...
3. To a vehicle approaching from the right at an intersection of two similar roads without a traffic control device.

There is, however, in the Responsible Driver Handbook - A Comprehensive Guide to Enhance your Driving Experience under the heading of Yielding the Right of Way:
quote:
Always yield to:
...
  • The vehicle on your right if you both arrive at an intersection at the same time
  • Vehicles that arrive before you at a four-way stop

So, nothing official, but in practice, first come first serve, yield to the person on the right if you get there at the same time.
Posts: 550 | From: Springboro, OH | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Paulie Jay
O Little Down-Payment of Bethlehem


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Hey, that's funny, you give-way to the right in the USA, and so do we in Australia - even though we drive on opposite sides of the road! I just assumed all the rules would be reversed for you guys [Smile]

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All the way with Paulie Jay

Posts: 476 | From: Sydney, NSW, Australia | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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