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Author Topic: Men and dogs, or, you're not fooling anybody
Magdalene
Happy Holly Days


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With no offense to any of the men here, at the moment I hate the gender.

The two reasons why.

Reason number 1: There is a family with two children in my neighborhood. The kids love to pet Dazzle when we walk by. Understandably, the parents and I occasionally chat while this is going on. A lot of times, for some reason, it's the dad. Never thought much about it, it's just neighbor stuff--what do you think of the new HOA, what do you think of the grocery store across the street closing, blah blah blah.

Saturday night, Dazzle and I got back from the Renaissance Faire. I stripped, showered, and put on a pair of beat-up shorts and a ratty t-shirt and left my hair in rat-tails while I got Dazzle and Sammy on their leashes and took them for their right-before-bedtime walk--which was actually an hour late, at eleven p.m. It just so happens that they choose to do their number 2's right in front of this neighbor's house, which is no big deal, as I do clean up after my dogs. So as I'm scooping up, I hear a voice say, "On poop duty, huh?" OK--first off, I jump about a mile in the air, then see it's the neighbor. A bit of chatting which quickly gets weird--"You look really cute tonight." (Said all 'trying to be seductive-like'.) I decided to laugh it off with "Oh, yeah, don't I look like I could grace the cover of Vogue in this get-up?" Then, "So how's the roommate situation working out?" Me: "Fine." Him: "So is she home tonight, or are you alone?" Warning bells sound off, so I say, "She's home, went to bed early, so I took last walk of the night duty." "Well, some time when you're alone, maybe I should come over and we can hang out."

I just suddenly got irritated. It'd been a long day at the faire, I was facing another long day the next day, and I just snapped, "Just because I let your kids pet my dog doesn't mean I'm interested in you." And stormed off. I could hear him calling me a "G-D B****", but I didn't care.


Reason number 2: I got home from faire last night, and it was obvious that Sammy needed to go potty really bad, so instead of changing out of my garb right away, I got a leash on him and Dazzle and took them out--so yes, I'm still in cleavage-blatant wench garb. Yes, I DO get that dressing that way in public is going to get me stared at.

HOWEVER--there is a difference between a man looking in appreciation and a man just being a pig about it. And you are being a pig if your neighbor politely answers your questions about the dogs (which have been there forever and you've seen a million times before, so don't think you're fooling me with your sudden interest in my dogs), while making it plain she wants to finish the walk, get the tight bodice off, take a shower, and eat her supper, and you keep asking stupid, idiot questions just for an excuse to keep staring at your neighbor's cleavage--especially in front of your small children! (Who have seen me in the garb before, and are too small to care--especially when I have dogs that they're much more interested in.)

Grrrrr......

Magdalene

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"Don't mess with me. I dance with swords."

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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I am so with you on this it's not even funny. Well, I don't hate the entire gender, but definitely the ones who can't seem to get their brains out of their pants.

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Officially Heartless

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Magdalene, sounds to me like your response was quite appropriate.

At times like that, I'm sure you wish Dazzle really *was* evil.....

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So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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PallasAthena
Xboxing Day


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All I can say is wow. Talk about being a jerk!

Also, and I am sure you know this, but I think it bears saying, just because you are wearing your garb while your doggie goes tinkle doesn't mean you are "asking" to get hit on or oggled or whatever. What a weirdo. Any chance you can alter your walking route? The question about whether you were home alone was seriously creepy.

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"How do you make chocolate? You take dark chocolate, you mix it with white milk, and it becomes a delicious drink. That is the chocolate I am talking about." --Ray Nagin

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Roadie
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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I'm glad you were armed with poo - you mighta needed it! [lol]

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"The little local company I buy from has CHEAP shipping and I have met their goats." (snapdragonfly)

"And that's one lost erection I'll never get back! You hear me Dan! I'm owed an erection!" (I'mNotDedalus)

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robbiev - singin' off key
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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You should meet my father (ok, no you shouldn't).

I don't hang around him, because he has an attitude of "every woman wants to NFBSK every guy."

He's like the guy in your story, except he's like that all the time from the start, to every woman he meets.

It's idiots like him and others that give "all men" a bad name.

Robbiev -we're not all like that- 427

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Every time I see a good looking woman, I think, "0oooh. There's another one I'll never have!"

Corvette. The louder you scream, the faster I'll go.

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DemonWolf
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I cannot speak for other men, but I will post in my own defense (I am not Magdalene's neighbor).

Boobies are pretty. They are kind of hypnotic. I cannot explain the male fascination with jubblies, but I can confirm its existance. If you are wearing a top that makes your breats look nice, especially if it show cleavage, I cannot help but look. Sometimes more than once.

But I also try not to stare or drool. I also try not to make it obvious that I am especially happy with the top that youve chosen for the occasion. This make women (understandably) uncomfortable. For most men (al least those who aren't perverts), I don't even think it's a conscious thing and I am usually very embarrassed when I realise that I've looked a little too long, even if she hasn't noticed (or at least indicated that she has noticed).

I usually try to look away if I see "unintended cleavage," for example, if a woman bends over near me and I don't think that she realizes how much is visible from my angle - that seems too much like cheating.

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Friends are like skittles: they come in many colors, and some are fruity!

IMJW-052804

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Malruhn
The "Was on Sale" Song


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I agree (for the first time, I might add!) with Ryda. You handled yourself masterfully, and I think that the ass was in the wrong.

Dumb question... was there a Mrs. back in his house with the kids? I might bring that up with her... bastard.

Also, regarding the Ren-garb, being the rarely satisfied horn-dog, I would do an appreciative once over... and that would be it. Jesus, it is PERIOD garb!! If you showed up in a tank top that showed the same, I might be more interested... but it is a damned COSTUME!!

He's an ass. Let's just leave it at that.

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Opinions aren't excuses to remain ignorant about subjects, nor are they excuses to never examine one's beliefs & prejudices...

Babies are like tattoos. You see other peoples' & they're cool, but yours is never as good & you can't get rid of it.

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F minor
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Originally posted by DemonWolf:


Boobies are pretty. They are kind of hypnotic. I cannot explain the male fascination with jubblies, but I can confirm its existance. If you are wearing a top that makes your breats look nice, especially if it show cleavage, I cannot help but look. Sometimes more than once.

But I also try not to stare or drool. I also try not to make it obvious that I am especially happy with the top that youve chosen for the occasion. This make women (understandably) uncomfortable. For most men (al least those who aren't perverts), I don't even think it's a conscious thing and I am usually very embarrassed when I realise that I've looked a little too long, even if she hasn't noticed (or at least indicated that she has noticed).

This is true for me too, which is odd seeing as I'm gay. They just seem to draw your eye.
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Aptenodytes_Forsteriis
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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"On poop duty, huh?" What a romantic! A truly masterful opening line, I can't believe you didn't swoon with the passion it must have inspired.

On a more serious note why did this story not end up with him wearing Dazzle's droppings?

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Doug4.7
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Roadie:
I'm glad you were armed with poo - you mighta needed it! [lol]

Good one.

Now, just as a general defense of guys. Not all of us are that creepy. To say that was out of line is the understatement of the day.

I would second that "Is there a Mrs. Creep?", although you might get a response of, "Well, he does wander now and then, usually nothing comes of it..." if you were to tell her of the incident, which would be even MORE creepy to me.

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And now for something completely different...

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kingfan1978
Deck the Malls


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I'm not even a lesbian but I have to admit that a woman with cleavage hanging out can draw my eye as well...usually more for jealousy/comparative reasons, though.

But, as most everyone else has said, there is no reason to sit there & memorize the cleavage. It's just plain rude.

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"I reject your reality and substitue my own!" - Adam Savage, Mythbusters

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Dog Friendly
Carol of the Bills


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I don't mean to argue, Magdalene, and I'm not in any way trying to defend the actions of this jerk. You made it pretty clear he was married, and that he knew you knew he's married. In those circumstances, even a clumsy pick-up line crosses way over into seriously WTF territory. A week-old flounder for this boy, unless tuna is available.

A more subtle mistake, but one I'm very careful about is that after dark I make it a point to scuffle my shoes and/or speak when I'm still a good distance away from a woman out after dark. It's courteous with anyone, but women, particularly out with just their dogs, are entitled (IMO) to just a bit of extra respect. This joker, even on his own property, moved in close before speaking. To me, this sends a strong message that he was trying to make you feel vulnerable. Why many men feel that making a woman feel vulnerable or threatened is going to make them feel receptive is just one of Those Cosmic Mysteries I've never understood.

Your OP doesn't make it clear whether the second encounter was with the same guy or not. You seem to have switched into "generic men" mode at that point. If it was the same guy who'd just called you a G-D B a couple of nights before, then you need to begin planning what you're going to say to his wife, and how to approach it. Even if it was some other guy, he was still being an idiot, and you'd be well within your rights and the bounds of propriety to just say "Sorry, I've got things to do" and begin walking on the second r in "sorry".

Having said all that, and wishing to make it completely clear that I'm not defending or justifying the boorish behavior of the man or men in both your scenarios, I do have to agree with DemonWolf and F minor, and this is from the perspective of a guy who knows he ain't never going to get close to one (OK, two) of those again. They're lovely, and endlessly fascinating.

And plenty of guys are able to find a woman devastatingly gorgeous in a pair of beat-up shorts, a ratty t-shirt, and hair that just looks like hair. Please don't assume a direct relationship between your attractiveness and the number of hours you've just spent working on your attractiveness. Maybe looking good for other women (or for yourself, I understand that too!) is a different thing -- but plenty of guys besides myself can get just as excited about a woman who looks good in whatever she throws on.

It's how the guy behaves when he's interested that so often gives us all a bad name. You don't need an apology from me, but you're not going to get one from this dude, so I apologize.

Dog (make that two tunas!) Friendly

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"Nobody ever got stoned and beat up his old lady" -- Spence, snapdragonfly's friend

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Magdalene
Happy Holly Days


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You're right, I didn't make it clear--it's two different men I was ranting on. I got so caught up in the rant I forget nobody here was there.

Did I just make sense at all?

Magdalene

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"Don't mess with me. I dance with swords."

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Ophiuchus
Deck the Malls


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I don't know that this is really a gender thing...
I can certainly imagine a woman engaging a man she finds attractive and is in a particularly attractive outfit in a series of awkward, nervous questions of those type just to get him to stick around longer...

The first one does seem a bit creepy, although this could be a case of someone simply seeing another person out in the middle of the night and figuring that the person might want something other than the dog taking a dump to focus on and then saying horribly awkward things. Although the tone really indicates this.

The second one though reeks of an overly defensive attitude. Why is it women expect men to be psychic? There really isn't any way for someone to KNOW one is uncomfortable in your current (intentionally eye-catching) attire and is are hungry without it being properly communicated and communicating it in a needlessly aggressive and angry way immediately is a way for one to get labeled as a "jerk", "asshole", "bitch" or other label that is used to convey the meaning of 'unstable, self-centered person liable to explode in bouts of irrational anger at any second.'

Unfortunately the truth is that while women are only occasionally in their 'prowl' mode, men actually HAVE to be almost always within our society. The men who are like this most often find the most and the most attractive mates. Because women take the receptive role, they don't ever have to worry about this-- I'd be willing to bet that if women were to think back past all their past relationships likely 90% of them were initiated by the man and the only reason they didn't find it creepy was because they happened to be receptive at the time (or they find it creepy only when they find the man unattractive.)

Now, if society worked differently-- if men could simply sit around and be themselves and expect women to approach them, things might be different. But this is simply not true, if a man sits around and simply is himself he'll live his life alone. Only be initiating these kind of awkwards conversations can a man find a relationship or mate, and yes... every non-receptive woman will find him inevitably creepy. But the better he looks the more he can say and do the exact same kind of things without it seeming creepy.

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Seaboe Muffinchucker
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Ophiuchus:
The second one though reeks of an overly defensive attitude. Why is it women expect men to be psychic?

Did you miss this part?
quote:
And you are being a pig if your neighbor politely answers your questions about the dogs... while making it plain she wants to finish the walk...
Doesn't look to me as if she expected him to be psychic.

Seaboe

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Education is not the filling of a hard drive, but the lighting of a bulb. -- Yeats via Esprise Me

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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quote:
Originally posted by Dog Friendly:
A more subtle mistake, but one I'm very careful about is that after dark I make it a point to scuffle my shoes and/or speak when I'm still a good distance away from a woman out after dark. It's courteous with anyone, but women, particularly out with just their dogs, are entitled (IMO) to just a bit of extra respect. This joker, even on his own property, moved in close before speaking. To me, this sends a strong message that he was trying to make you feel vulnerable. Why many men feel that making a woman feel vulnerable or threatened is going to make them feel receptive is just one of Those Cosmic Mysteries I've never understood.

It could be just that he doesn't realize that a woman would feel vunerable even when she's got dogs along.

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Ophiuchus, I'm confused. You say:

quote:
I don't know that this is really a gender thing...
I can certainly imagine a woman engaging a man she finds attractive and is in a particularly attractive outfit in a series of awkward, nervous questions of those type just to get him to stick around longer...

But then, after explalning that men always need to be their prowl mode, you say:

quote:
Now, if society worked differently-- if men could simply sit around and be themselves and expect women to approach them, things might be different. But this is simply not true, if a man sits around and simply is himself he'll live his life alone.
To me, those statements contradict each other. You can imagine it happening, but it never happens? Am I misunderstanding you?

I would also point out that one good way to make sure that one's attempt to initiate contact is not seen as creepy would be to avoid staring at the woman's cleavage. Even if she's not in costume, or hungry. Because staring at a woman's cleavage is rude and, well, creepy. You don't have to take my word for it, or Magdalene's: DemonWolf and Malruhn, both male, said pretty much the same thing.

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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quote:
Originally posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker:
Did you miss this part?
quote:
And you are being a pig if your neighbor politely answers your questions about the dogs... while making it plain she wants to finish the walk...
Doesn't look to me as if she expected him to be psychic.

Seaboe

It depends on how she was making it plain. It could be something so obvious as saying, "I want to finish walking them." Or it could be something more subtle like looking back at her house often. Body language communication is never as clear or plain as we think it is.

quote:
Originally posted by Magdalene:
...I'm still in cleavage-blatant wench garb. [snip]
so don't think you're fooling me with your sudden interest in my dogs),

There is a joke in here about his interest in your bodice-puppies somewhere. [Wink]

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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TurquoiseGirl
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
Originally posted by Ophiuchus:
I
The second one though reeks of an overly defensive attitude. Why is it women expect men to be psychic?


It is my understanding that it was the same person.

No we don't expect men to be psychic, we expect them to be polite. And addressing our faces rather than our boobs is part of that.

quote:
There really isn't any way for someone to KNOW one is uncomfortable in your current (intentionally eye-catching) attire and is are hungry without

So it's okay to assume that anyone wearing eye-catching attire is doing it solely to be ogled? Interesting.

quote:
it being properly communicated and communicating it in a needlessly aggressive and angry way immediately is a way for one to get labeled as a "jerk", "asshole", "bitch" or other label that is used to convey the meaning of 'unstable, self-centered person liable to explode in bouts of irrational anger at any second.'


So let's get this straight. A guy can assume that Magdelene's was dressed the way she was do do something other than let her dog out to poop. But if she gets offended by his behavior, which was obviously creepy. She is
an unstable self-centered person liable to explode in bouts of irrational anger at any second"? Do I have that right.

What is irrational about being expected to be treated as a person first and sex object second?

quote:
Unfortunately the truth is that while women are only occasionally in their 'prowl' mode, men actually HAVE to be almost always within our society.


Really? Do you have a cite for that?

quote:
The men who are like this most often find the most and the most attractive mates.

Cite, please? Because women just so love being "prowled after" that we just fall for the most offensive guy around? Or is just the attractive ones?

Is that what is important? The most attracive mate?

quote:
Because women take the receptive role, they don't ever have to worry about this--

No we just have to worry about being called bitches or worse if we rebuff a rude come one.


quote:
I'd be willing to bet that if women were to think back past all their past relationships likely 90% of them were initiated by the man and the only reason they didn't find it creepy was because they happened to be receptive at the time (or they find it creepy only when they find the man unattractive.)


Are you assuming that every attempt at "initiation" leads to a relationship?

Okay, I am looking back and say you are full of crap. Usually, I end up dating guys who have established that they like me for more than my boobs before I go out with them. In fact, I would say all of them were this way.

quote:
Now, if society worked differently-- if men could simply sit around and be themselves and expect women to approach them, things might be different.
To clarify are you saying that the current societal roles are women's faults? How so?

You do know that there are many unflattering terms for a sexually forward woman, don't you.

quote:
But this is simply not true, if a man sits around and simply is himself he'll live his life alone.
Interestingly, I find men who are willing to be themselves to be more attractive than those with cheesy lines or obvious leers.

quote:
Only be initiating these kind of awkwards conversations can a man find a relationship or mate, and yes... every non-receptive woman will find him inevitably creepy. But the better he looks the more he can say and do the exact same kind of things without it seeming creepy.
Bullshit. It is not about how attractive someone is. It's about attitude. If Liam Neeson himself acted the way that was described in the OP, I would call it creepy.

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There are people who drive really nice cars who feel that [those] cars won't be as special if other people drive them too. Where I come from, we call those people "selfish self-satisfied gits." -Chloe

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LikeHeyScoob
The First USA Noel


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Funny I should spot this thread right now.
I just met with an advertiser(literally 5 minutes ago) who was female, well endowed, and sporting some pretty decent cleavage.
I was able to maintain eye contact, somehow, but I have to agree with DemonWolf...Boobies are pretty, boobies are nice. I like them. I like Mrs. Scoob's the best, but I enjoy most others as well.

And as for my advertiser...she was smart and engaging and had nice eyes to boot, so that made it easier for my naughty, nasty, dirty eyes to not succumb to the cleavage gravity.

She bought a decent schedule of ad space also, which made her even more attractive. [Smile]

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DemonWolf
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by LikeHeyScoob:
Funny I should spot this thread right now.
I just met with an advertiser(literally 5 minutes ago) who was female, well endowed, and sporting some pretty decent cleavage.
I was able to maintain eye contact, somehow, but I have to agree with DemonWolf...Boobies are pretty, boobies are nice. I like them. I like Mrs. Scoob's the best, but I enjoy most others as well.

I must congratulate you. It can sometimes be very difficult to be professional when viewing such assets - Especially when you want to re-enact the only funny scene from the movie "Monkey bone."


Demon "Dong dong dong! DIVE! DIVE! DIVE!" Wolf

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Friends are like skittles: they come in many colors, and some are fruity!

IMJW-052804

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Hero_Mike
Happy Holly Days


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Just for Ophiuchus, here's a little recap of why "prowl mode" was not appreciated here. Note that this was two different guys...

Guy #1 :
quote:
Reason number 1: There is a family with two children in my neighborhood. The kids love to pet Dazzle when we walk by. Understandably, the parents and I occasionally chat while this is going on. A lot of times, for some reason, it's the dad. Never thought much about it, it's just neighbor stuff--what do you think of the new HOA, what do you think of the grocery store across the street closing, blah blah blah.
Magdalene states quite clearly that this neighbor is a father of two kids who like her dog, and, more importantly, married (or at the very least, not single). See above - she uses the words 'family' and 'parents' to imply a couple. The request to "hang out" when she is alone, is full of innuendo. It's pretty clear that he's interested only in sex.


Guy #2
quote:
I got home from faire last night, and it was obvious that Sammy needed to go potty really bad, so instead of changing out of my garb right away, I got a leash on him and Dazzle and took them out--so yes, I'm still in cleavage-blatant wench garb. Yes, I DO get that dressing that way in public is going to get me stared at.
HOWEVER--there is a difference between a man looking in appreciation and a man just being a pig about it. And you are being a pig if your neighbor politely answers your questions about the dogs (which have been there forever and you've seen a million times before, so don't think you're fooling me with your sudden interest in my dogs), while making it plain she wants to finish the walk, get the tight bodice off, take a shower, and eat her supper, and you keep asking stupid, idiot questions just for an excuse to keep staring at your neighbor's cleavage--especially in front of your small children! (Who have seen me in the garb before, and are too small to care--especially when I have dogs that they're much more interested in.)

Guy #2 is staring at her cleavage. Guy #2 has every indication from what Magdalene is saying/doing that she wants to leave. But Guy #2 is talking to her breasts, and therefore, oblivious to everything else.

Nothing about "prowl mode" is required here. Both interactions were rude and uninvited. And it doesn't take a genius to figure out why.

You get it now, Ophiuchus?

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Posts: 1587 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
zman977
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
if a man sits around and simply is himself he'll live his life alone. [/QB]
bullpucky. All of the woman I have dated and most of them I dated long term were attracted to me because I was myself. The friends I have who are married met their wives, and husbands by being themselves. You want to know who is single. The frineds of mine who think that comming on overly strong and thinking every woman they meet wants to sleep with them. They might have several one night stands but soon thease woman figure out thease guys true collars and thease guys are to stupid to figure out when we decent guys are married and they are on their fourth marrige. Also, if you're going to make a statement like that, could you please back it up with a source? I'd like to know where you came up with this, "fact".

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Posts: 918 | From: La Salle Illinois USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
IlGreven, Swan a-Swimmin'
Grandma Got Run Over by a Rain Check


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quote:
Originally posted by Hero_Mike:
Just for Ophiuchus, here's a little recap of why "prowl mode" was not appreciated here. Note that this was two different guys...

Are you sure? Because it sounds like the same guy to me...

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Posts: 508 | From: Ohio | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Gg83
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by IlGreven:
quote:
Originally posted by Hero_Mike:
Just for Ophiuchus, here's a little recap of why "prowl mode" was not appreciated here. Note that this was two different guys...

Are you sure? Because it sounds like the same guy to me...
Nope.

Moving on to a more general response to the thread: speaking from personal experience (I know, the plural of anecdote isn't data), my first (and so far only) boyfriend became my boyfriend because I was the one to approach him and ask if he wanted to date. He's a sweet, intelligent, somewhat shy, and entirely not full-of-himself sort of guy with a great sense of humor, which I found quite attractive. Had he been the sort to constantly stare at my bosom or make lewd come-ons, I wouldn't have been the least bit interested.

Finally, to Magdalene: I can understand the feelings of anger and even hatred towards the gender after experiences like that, but I also think that such sweeping generalizations are rather unfair. Certainly not all men are like that--look around snopes for some examples of charming men who are able to overcome temptations and behave wonderfully and decently. Lumping them in with those jerks just because they also have penes is cruel. I know you wished them no offense, but saying that you hate their gender isn't the least offensive thing ever. (I do sympathise, though; sometimes it's extremely tempting to have a man-bashing session after a bad experience.)

Posts: 241 | From: Land of Lincoln, IL | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
   

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