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Author Topic: my wife was fired OVER THE PHONE today
zman977
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Be worned this could be a long rant.

It finally happend. My wife was fired today. First a little back ground. She worked in customer service for a company that doesn't eforce it's own policies on many occasions. This was what they claim caused her dimissal. On Monday she recieved a call from someone who wanted free second day air to Hawaii. They have never done that in the history of the company. Says so on the website that they only do it in the continental US. She tells the person this and he gets irate. She trnasfers the call to a superviser. She gets yelled at because she didn't give him what he wanted. They said to her AFTER THE FACT that they were going to do that for just a few days. My wife said, "it would have been nice if you told us about this change in policy when I came in to work." They said, "well we told the floor leaders this and they were supposed to pass the information on." One of my wifes friends is a floor leader and said she had not been told this information. So basicly my wife said, "what is the point of haveing theae policies if you're going to change them every five minutes. And if you are going to change them you might want to send out a memo so we know what we are supposed to do." This happend on Monday, Now this company has a history of doing this. Just giving in to the cusomer every time they want something for nothing. This is not the first time they have tried to get her in trouble for following procedure. They wrote her up for transfering a call to a superviser simply because he did not want to deal with the call. This has happend on more than one occasion. She has thease times documentation for all of thses times. Now on Wednesday on her day off right before I left for work an H R person called and needed to talk to her ASAP. I said she was not in and I'd have to have her call them. Now this morning, she called back and put them on speaker phone so I could hear. They told her the reason they were terminating her was because of. "her inability to show marked improvment over time." They were basing it on the call from Monday which everyone we talked to today including other former co workers of hers says she did nothing wrong. They have been trying to get her to quit for a long time but she has often said they'll have to fire her first. Well today they did. It dosn't bother us that she was fired. What made us both mad is they did not have the guts to do it in person. Talk about a cowerdly act. If you're gong to fire someone at least be adults and do it in person. I told my employer about this and he could not believe a company like the one my wife worked for would stoop so low. She was pretty upset but she already has a job interview for this Saturday mornig and I don't see her being unemployd for long. I and her sister told her to look on the bright side. She can now devote full attention to finding something that she will actually enjoy. So her gettin fired as far as I"m concerned was the best thing they could do. But the way they did it I found quite cowerdly. I'd like to know what they meant by Failure to improve over time. My boss thought that was one of the most BS reasons he has ever heard and being in radio he's had to do his fair share of fireings. As I said, she's trying to look at it as a positive. She no longer has to put up witth the BS of that place. What made us mad was how they did it. I guess it shows how much respect they have for their employees. Sorry for this being so wordy and loong I just had to get this off my chest.

--------------------
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Ever notice how we always fall in love? We never climb gently in to love, or step lightly in to love. If love is such a good thing than why is it described as a fall.

Posts: 918 | From: La Salle Illinois USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
kmcm
We Three Blings


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Dude, Zman, paragraph breaks. Please. That was really difficult to read.

That being said....your wife's former employer are gutless. I wonder is she can get them for wrongful termination. (I don't know the laws in your state.)

I'm glad there is a happy side to all this though. Here's to hoping she finds a job she likes.

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Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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The only reasons I can find to fight such an employer is to get a fat compensation or to keep the work long enough to keep the economy afloat until she finds a decent job. Then it is just a matter of going into the boss' office and sing "Take this job and shove it, I ain't work here no more".

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/Troberg

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zman977
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Sorry about the now breaks in paragraphs and the spelling mistakes. I was just so mad and wanted to get it posted that I wasn't thinking of grammer. Usualy I type a post in the email, spell check and then post. This time though. I just needed to get if off my chest. thanks for the kind words. She is far better off not having to be at that place.

--------------------
Check out the podcast at www.candidradio.com

Ever notice how we always fall in love? We never climb gently in to love, or step lightly in to love. If love is such a good thing than why is it described as a fall.

Posts: 918 | From: La Salle Illinois USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Spamamander in a pear tree
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Hell, I don't blame you for a ramble. That's just beyond low. Cowardly NFBSKers. Hopefully this will be a start for her in something better... and a lot less stressful.

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"There is a race between mankind and the universe. Mankind is trying to build bigger, better, faster, and more foolproof machines. The universe is trying to build bigger, better, and faster fools. So far the universe is winning." -Albert Einstein

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zman977
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Not worth going after them. In Illinois they don't need to have a reason to fire you. Plus even if she could do something would she realy want to work for a place that spent so much time trying to get her to leave. She is definatly better off out of there. She can get unemployment for six months. She's already applied but hopefully by the time she gets it she'll already have a job doing something she likes. One of my co workers said she should put together a portfolio of her pictures and send them and a resume to some newspapers to become a photo journolist. you can check out her pics at www.pbase.com/littlflurry She dosn't think they re that great. I and others tell her she needs to give herself more credit. her pictures are awsome.

--------------------
Check out the podcast at www.candidradio.com

Ever notice how we always fall in love? We never climb gently in to love, or step lightly in to love. If love is such a good thing than why is it described as a fall.

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YeeMum
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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well Rats the link doesn't work.
positive energy at you and yours anyway!

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glisp42
I'm Dreaming Of A White iPod


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Ah the joys of working in an "At Will" state.

This is truely the weirdest firing that's happened to me. I was working at Target and bottom line I wasn't pushing the credit card hard enough so they pulled me into the office and said(this is an exact quote btw), "I think you need to find a new job"

A week later they call me and ask my roomie why I hadn't shown up for my shift yet. Wha??

I once put in my notice at a telemarketing place only to be fired that night preventing me from collecting unemployment.

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What does "Bookachow", "YOMANK" and other lingo mean?

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wolfe2dale
I Saw Three Shipments


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Wow, can they really do this sort of thing in the US? Here in the UK we have a great many laws protecting an employee from just such an act.

Is there no way you can seek legal recompense for this?

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abbubmah
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From getting fired "at will"? No.

glisp has a case, if he can prove notice was given before he was fired. However, getting out of telemarking is probably a bonus in itself...

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DemonWolf
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quote:
Originally posted by wolfe2dale:
Wow, can they really do this sort of thing in the US? Here in the UK we have a great many laws protecting an employee from just such an act.

Is there no way you can seek legal recompense for this?

It depends on the state. States are given alot of autonomy and have juristiction over things like employment laws. Basically if it isn't specifially mentioned in the constitution it is under the juristiction of the states (or the people). The exceptions (in employment law, for example) mostly have to do with discrimination, taxes, certain safety standards.

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Can my employer terminate me without a good reason?
Yes. In fact, most employees in the United States are at-will employees, even though most employees are unaware of this situation. In most states, the law presumes that private sector employees are employed "at-will." The employment-at-will doctrine provides that both the employer and the employee can end the employment relationship at any time without notice or reason. This means the employer has the right to terminate your employment at any time, for any reason, or for no reason at all or for a bad reason, so long as the reason is not illegal - even if you performance has been outstanding. The other side of the "at-will" coin is that you, as an employee, can quit your job for any reason at any time. You cannot be forced to work for an employer. You don't have to give your employer a reason for quitting.

Workplace Fairness.org (emphasis mine)

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Bill
The Red and the Green Stamps


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(1) I totally agree with you; just showing my support and hoping your wife gets something else soon.

(2) This is not surprising, from my own experience; corporate comes up with a policy or a promotion and somehow it somehow doesn't filter down to the front-line employees. I remember one retailer in my area mentioned a contest in its flyer and said that I was supposed to go to the store and pick up an entry blank. When I got there the employees were clueless.

(3) On at-will employment and hiring and firing: I was told (maybe just another UL) that an employer could fire somebody at will (subject to the exceptions on the site mentioned in the earlier post), but that it could not hire someone else in their place. That is, the firm could do away with your position, but could not arbitrarily fire somebody and replace them with someone else without cause. Don't know if there's any authority for that.

Good luck.

Thanks.

Bill

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Lydia Oh Lydia
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As long as employment is at will (and most employment in the US is), the employer or the employee can terminate the relationship at any time. The employer can fire the employee for any reason other than prohibited reasons, like firing someone based upon race, nationality, sex, etc. When someone is fired for other than prohibited reasons, there is no prohibition against hiring someone in that person's place.

For instance, if I'm an employer, I can say something like, "Sally, I don't like you. You're fired." But I can't say, "Sally, I don't like you because you're a female black Jew from Canada. You're fired."

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bthyb
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quote:
Originally posted by glisp42:

I once put in my notice at a telemarketing place only to be fired that night preventing me from collecting unemployment.

I'm confused...I thought you could only get unemployment if you were fired?

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If you say you love ice cream, you better be dreaming of an orgy with Ben, Jerry, and one fine-ass chunky monkey.

-- My sister and poet extraordinaire, Joanna Hoffman

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Tam
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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Zman,

Best of luck to your wife in her job search. I hope she finds something she loves. (Working for people who will value her!)

Your link to her photos doesn't work because you left out the "e" in "littleflurry." (I found them by searching for "littleflurry" on the Pbase website.) She has some really lovely photos!

- Tam

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kanazawa
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
quote:
The employment-at-will doctrine provides that both the employer and the employee can end the employment relationship at any time without notice or reason
Workplace Fairness.org (emphasis mine)
That's long been a munchkin of mine. If the law said you could be fired without a good reason, or without being given a reason, I could understand.

But how could you be fired without reason. I mean, say the boss wants to fire everyone whose last name begins with the letter "Y". Or everyone who doesn't button the top button on their shirts. Those are reasons (stupid ones, of course).

Being fired "without reason" sort of implies it just happens, and no one knows why [Confused]

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NeeCD
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quote:
Originally posted by YeeMum, final answer:
well Rats the link doesn't work.
positive energy at you and yours anyway!

Is this it? If so, there was an "e" missing in the URL.

www.pbase.com/littleflurry

I hope that's the right page, those are some really nice pics. Not that I know art or anything, but I think she's really talented.

[ETA spanked by Tam, gotta start paying attention aroung here.]

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I wondered why the Frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
What does "Bookachow", "YOMANK!" and other lingo mean?

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Bill
The Red and the Green Stamps


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quote:
Originally posted by Lydia Oh Lydia:
As long as employment is at will (and most employment in the US is), the employer or the employee can terminate the relationship at any time. The employer can fire the employee for any reason other than prohibited reasons, like firing someone based upon race, nationality, sex, etc. When someone is fired for other than prohibited reasons, there is no prohibition against hiring someone in that person's place.

For instance, if I'm an employer, I can say something like, "Sally, I don't like you. You're fired." But I can't say, "Sally, I don't like you because you're a female black Jew from Canada. You're fired."

Thanks for clearing that up.

Firing employees (or hiring one person and not another) for no sensible reason is very annoying when it happens to you, but I suppose that's the price we pay for not having the government jump in and make the employment decisions.

Thanks.

Bill

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Seaboe Muffinchucker
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by bthyb:
quote:
Originally posted by glisp42:

I once put in my notice at a telemarketing place only to be fired that night preventing me from collecting unemployment.

I'm confused...I thought you could only get unemployment if you were fired?
If he hadn't resigned, he'd've qualified for unemployment. Since he resigned, he didn't qualify.

And you only get unemployment if you're fired for the right reasons: not enough work (the employers favorite excuse) or such. Get fired for embezzlement, say, and you won't be collecting unemployment.

Seaboe

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Midgard_Dragon
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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Not really related to the OP, but I once received a letter of termination via FedEx. That's right, FedEx. Didn't even bother to call.

I wasn't exactly trying to keep that job though.

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Midgard Dragon
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bthyb
WiFi Christmas


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quote:
Originally posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker:
quote:
Originally posted by bthyb:
quote:
Originally posted by glisp42:

I once put in my notice at a telemarketing place only to be fired that night preventing me from collecting unemployment.

I'm confused...I thought you could only get unemployment if you were fired?
If he hadn't resigned, he'd've qualified for unemployment. Since he resigned, he didn't qualify.
Seaboe

Thanks, that's what I thought - the wording confused me.

And good vibes to Zman & wife!

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If you say you love ice cream, you better be dreaming of an orgy with Ben, Jerry, and one fine-ass chunky monkey.

-- My sister and poet extraordinaire, Joanna Hoffman

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zman977
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by YeeMum, final answer:
well Rats the link doesn't work.
positive energy at you and yours anyway!

Sorry about that. the actual link is www.pbase.com/littleflurry
I forgot the "e" in little. It should work now.

--------------------
Check out the podcast at www.candidradio.com

Ever notice how we always fall in love? We never climb gently in to love, or step lightly in to love. If love is such a good thing than why is it described as a fall.

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I saw Mommy kismet Santa Claus
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Here's my understanding from experiencing my mother's multiple experiences being fired:

The company can let you go for any reason except protected discrimination reasons. They also can't fire you if you already quit. They can pay out your 2 week notice and let you go home, but they can't stop paying you before your notice is up.

When a company fires you, they have to state one of the acceptable reasons or say there was no reason. If you were fired for "reason" you can't collect unemployment. So poor work performance or breaking a law mean you're fired with no unemployment available. If they fire you because you're bald, you get unemployment. If you are fired for reason, the company has to be able to document the reason. So even if you truly were a bad employee, if they can't prove it you can still get unemployment. That's why most big companies have "3 strike" policies with written warnings signed by the employee and manager before terminating the employee.

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Muridae
Deck the Malls


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Being fired over the phone isn't that uncommon. I work in unemployment and do a lot of unemployment hearings. One of the standard questions (especially in Illinois) is "How were they discharged? In person, over the phone, or by mail?" I can't say why employers do it, I'm sure there's a thousand reasons for it. I agree it sucks mightily to be fired. But the employer doing it over the phone isn't unusual.

As for quitting and collecting unemployment: generally no you can't, but it really really depends on the reason the person quit. Was it a personal reason or was it the fault of the employer?

-- M (employed in unemployment)

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FuzzDuckie
Happy Holly Days


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have to agree...being fired/laid off by phone, letter or email isn't that rare.

and I'm going to play devil's advocate here a little. Sometimes that is the only way to communicate...especially if the HR/employer is in another state or town or if the decision was rather sudden. Not excusable but plausible. Certainly not excusable in the OP's incident if the HR dept is in the same building/location as the wife's work place.

I was once sent an email informing me that I was laid off. My employer worked in another part of town (I was a subcontractor to the client) and due to the rather sudden turnabout on the client's part, there was no other choice BUT to send me an email at my work place. They may have called but did email since they know I'm deaf...

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zman977
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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Just wanted to thank everyone fo there kind words and support. The thing I'm trying to get her to see is that she is far better off not working there. She's worried about bills and paying them. Before she was let go they kept cutting everyones hours. Sending people home a few hours early even when they were busy, things like that. So we were comming up short. We were in the prossess of getting refinancing our home equity loan when this happend and that reminded me last Friday one of the banks we were talking to said that they had called HR at my wifes employer and were told she did not work there anymore. This was before the incednets that they said led to here termination occured. She did work Friday, Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday. So that leads me to believe that this was planned even before The calls I talked about in the O P.
Anyway back to what I was originally going to say, What makes it hard for her is she suffers from depresion so any sort of big change like this can cause her to just curl up in to a ball and want to not do anything. She keeps wanting to blame herself and the first thing she wants to do is think of the negitives. Her sister and I, and a talk with her doctor, have gotten her to think a little more positively about this. We just keep reminding her that she is not the first person to ever get fired and won't be the last. Look at it as an oprotunity.
Again, thanks for the support. I'll keep everyone updated on how the job hunt goes.

--------------------
Check out the podcast at www.candidradio.com

Ever notice how we always fall in love? We never climb gently in to love, or step lightly in to love. If love is such a good thing than why is it described as a fall.

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PallasAthena
Xboxing Day


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Supposedly, at my company they fire you by walking you downstairs. Word is, they fired a guy and he tried to jump off one of the atrium balconies. Weird. Later he threatened to come in and shoot the place up so they had extra security patrolling the grounds. He was in an entry level position and my company is notorious for underpaying. I just don't get why you'd threaten to jump over such a crappy job anyway. He had to be unbalanced to begin with I guess.

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"How do you make chocolate? You take dark chocolate, you mix it with white milk, and it becomes a delicious drink. That is the chocolate I am talking about." --Ray Nagin

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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At my employer, fired or laid-off employees are generally escorted to the door. They don't even get to go to their desk for their personal stuff (except purses, wallets, etc.). That's packed up by a manager, and either the former employee picks it up or the manager mails it to him/her.

The same process is followed if the employee gives notice, if they are taking a new job with a competitor. In those situations, the company pays two weeks' salary in lieu of two weeks notice. Basically, if you're going to a competitor, they don't want you to continue to have access to proprietary information for two weeks. The employee who's leaving can then start the new job two weeks early, or take a two-week paid vacation.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

Posts: 8322 | From: Columbus, OH | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
MissEltoe
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zman, vibes to you and your wife.

My sister just got fired from her job about a month ago with no warning. I was a complete shock.

The only advice I would give is tell your wife to take as long as she needs to find a job that she loves and will pay her what she's worth if she can. My sister just jumped up and took a job last week that she should've been starting this morning, and she was literally in tears about it.

Sometimes collecting unemployment seems like a cop-out to people, and they rush to find something else. Everyone can't have a dream job, but at least she can take the time to find something better for herself!

GOOD LUCK!

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Licorice of the Lord! This is classy stuff...Should I be wearing a tie? Or, at least, pants?
~I'mNotDedalus

Posts: 975 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
zman977
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quote:
Originally posted by Tam:
Zman,

Best of luck to your wife in her job search. I hope she finds something she loves. (Working for people who will value her!)

Your link to her photos doesn't work because you left out the "e" in "littleflurry." (I found them by searching for "littleflurry" on the Pbase website.) She has some really lovely photos!

- Tam

She said thanks. Yes those are her pics. She had an interview this morning that looks very promising and it would be something she enjoys. Thanks again.

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Check out the podcast at www.candidradio.com

Ever notice how we always fall in love? We never climb gently in to love, or step lightly in to love. If love is such a good thing than why is it described as a fall.

Posts: 918 | From: La Salle Illinois USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
abigsmurf
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In the UK what was described in the first place is constructive dismissal and you'd have grounds to sue.

That telemarketer sacking after you gave notice is so blatently illegal that any sane company would pay you compensation before going to court.

Posts: 824 | From: England | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
   

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