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Author Topic: Can I pre-emptively snopes myself?
Greg of Winter
Xboxing Day


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I'm currently accused of perpetuating an internet hoax.

Long story short, my idiot neighbor had an accidental discharge with his .44 Magnum. The bullet ended up in my spare bedroom. Unusual, but not unbelievably bizarre.

I took a few pix of the damage and put them on my blog. I didn't advertise it, or even push for attention. I haven't even mentioned it here until now. It now has had over 600 comments from all over the world.

I have one particulary rabid skeptic who has been particularly nasty with his ad hominem attacks, personal insults, and insulting insights into my psyche as to why I would stage such a "hoax."

So. Before I link to this, any suggestions? Does snopes even want to look at something this?

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Meanwhile, at stately Wayne Manor...

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Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I'd wait until snopes or Barbara get it in their inbox. Fortunately, for them, confirming it's true should be fairly easy.

Oh, and tell the skeptic to NFBSK off. May not accomplish much, but damn if it don't feel good. [Big Grin]

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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LeaflessMapleTree
The twelve shopping days 'til Christmas


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Well, if you have the pictures and you want to post them in the Photo Gallery, I guess people here will pick it apart and tell you whether they think it's real. Except that forum is usually for asking whether a picture you FOUND is real or not. But hey, if you want to...

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"For me, religion is like a rhinoceros: I don't have one, and I'd really prefer not to be trampled by yours. But it is impressive, and even beautiful, and, to be honest, the world would be slightly worse off if there weren't any."
-Silas Sparkhammer

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James of Maine
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Is your rabid skeptic accusing you of staging it because he percieves some kind of "anti-gun agenda" on your part?

Accidental discharges are a dirty little secret in the world of "responsible" firearms users-- both private enthusiasts and professionals such as cops. If it doesn't result in bodily injury, doesn't cause highly visible damage, and isn't witnessed by a lot of people, it often just isn't talked about, to save face.

A close relative of mine (and no, it's not me) once accidentally discharged a .38 Special revolver while cleaning it at his house. He was "sure" he had unloaded it. The bullet travelled about 6 feet, making clean holes through the frame of a mirror and two interior walls before lodging several inches lengthwise in a plywood shelf in a linen closet.

I would imagine the damage caused by a .44 Mag would be pretty impressive indeed.

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Greg of Winter
Xboxing Day


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I own guns, and I work with guns. I'm not anti-gun, just anti-idiot.

He claims I'm attention whoring, and "proved" it by throwing a bunch of supposed forensic ballistic numbers at me, despite not having any measurements whatsoever on our apartment complex.

Nothing seems to dissuade him.

Here's the link:

http://antiotter.livejournal.com/144625.html

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Meanwhile, at stately Wayne Manor...

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Holy crap!

Excellent hole patch job, by the way.

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"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
Holy crap!

Yeah, that just about covers it. [Eek!]

Glad you're okay.

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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Adelaide
Remembrances of Things Bass


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I also have a relative who had a co-worker over, who "accidentally" discharged a .357 in my relative's apartment. The bullet traveled at least 6 feet through the apartment, through the exterior wall, across approx. 6 more feet of open space, through another exterior wall into a neighbor's apartment, and then lodged in the back of a chair. The neighbor didn't even know it had happened.

I think there were a few pair of soiled undies after that incident.

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Natural selection is a beguiling counterfeiter of deliberate purpose. - Richard Dawkins

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Unusual Elfin Lights
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Greg,

Good to see you are around.

For the ballistics wannabes (I think there are two attempting to call you out) I would tell them to stuff a sock in it.

I have quite a background in ballistics (mostly artillery and rocket, but the principles are the same) and some of their comments (and formulas) are really ones that amateurs would make.

For example, in the discussion on the impact on your desk, both of the fellas discussing it do not make any thought about the angle of incidence to your desk. If a projectile impacts with an object and it's angle of incidence is under 30 degrees, chances are that it will ricochet. Looking at the photo, I would guess that the angle from hole in the wall to impact on desk is less than 30 degrees.

Another example, the reason your doorframe withheld the impact of the bullet is based upon three simple facts, which your comrades do not seem to take into account.
  • Even handgun magnum rounds are low velocity compared to longarm weapons. All the added propellant to the magnum round does is push the all burnt point closer to the muzzle (and often beyond it) creating relatively unstable ballistic patterns on the projectile.
  • The shape of a 44 magnum round is not very aerodynamic, and once it hits something, even something as minor as a wall and mirror, it will start tumbling. This tumbling may be in the form of an end over end tumble, or merely a tail wobble. Regardless, every 20 calibres travel along its trajectory it is bleeding off speed.
  • Finally, with each contact with another surface (from your count I read three walls and a desk before it hits your door jamb) significant amounts of momentum are lost. Whether or not your opponent has a fancy formula is of no consequence. Bleed 10 to 15% at each impact and by the time it hits your door jamb, you are looking at 40 to 60% of its speed being bled off.
So, I would also like to point out to your detractor that the stippling of the mirror around the hole, coupled with the fact that it appears that someone tried to wipe off some residue afterwards, is consistent with a high velocity penetration of glass. The spider web feature that many people look for is a feature of safety glass, or regular glass with a large, low velocity projectile such as a rock.

(I've fired a few .22 bullets into glass to have seen many, many impacts such as the one in your neighbour's window.)

For my qualifier, when in theatre, I assist in forensic analysis of ballistic characteristics of projectiles and their trajectories. I don't care for the projectile itself (that is someone else's department) but I am very concerned about how it got there. So, professionally, I have seen a few bullet holes.

Feel free to copy and paste anything I have said to your blog. [Wink]

My reference material : The Book

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Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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I'm sure if snopes posted something about it that would make the skeptics and gawkers go away quickly. Not. (You've been a member here for almost three years. You must read the We've Got Mail section sometimes. So you should know an article on snopes will only increase the number of people viewing your page and, therefore, increase the number accusing you of a hoax.)

I'm glad you weren't hurt and it's an amazing story but, frankly, what did you expect when you posted this kind of story, with pictures, on your blog?

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Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Well, at least with a neighbour with an arsenal like that you'll know that you'll be able to defend the house against an invasion by a minor nation...

Is there any reason for a civilian to ever have a loaded handgun outside of the shooting range?

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/Troberg

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Greg of Winter
Xboxing Day


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UEL, thanks so much. I'm guessing it did do some sort of tumbling, because when I pried the round out of the doorframe, it was lodged in sideways.

Impacts of the bullet:

Mirror, closet door, wall, desk, doorframe.

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Meanwhile, at stately Wayne Manor...

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Kitten in the rain
Jingle Bell Hock


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Am I the only one who looked at those pictures and thought "OMG! The bullet almost hit his computer!!!"?

I know. It's a disease. [Wink]

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abigsmurf
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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put a high paying advert on your blog. Post a "clarification". Email this clarification to a variety of news sites. Watch as you get millions of hits.


Easy money

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First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Troberg:

Is there any reason for a civilian to ever have a loaded handgun outside of the shooting range?

Over here we call our reasons "bad people." And "low police presence."

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"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle

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Mistletoey Chloe
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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But bear in mind that many of us live all our lives (so far) without encountering either. 'Course, when we do, chances are they're armed too, so it's a bit of a vicious circle. Personally, I'd rather be unarmed and know the bad guys are too, but since that won't be happening anytime soon, I guess the next best thing is just to be unarmed.

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~~Ai am in mai prrrrrraime!~~

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Billy Biggles
Deck the Malls


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From the antiotter blog:

quote:
Note the twin .50AE Desert Eagles, M-16 magazine, loose ammo, and .357 Magnum laying around like toys. Nice. The .44 Magnum he nearly killed me with is out of sight.
Greg of Winter, is your neighbour acquainted with the Thurberian expression "I tell you there isn't going to be an insurrection!"?

And from the comments on your blog...

quote:
In all seriousness.. I'm really happy you're not dead. That would be a bummer.
I am going to set up a sockpuppet called Chardonnay (she's fifteen and she has got like total attitude problems, and I am going to use that as her sig.

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Cogito ergo sum, non sum qualis eram. Putting Descartes before the Horace every time.

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Radical Dory
God Rest Ye Merry Retail Clerks


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Oh come on. It was obvious he was trying to clean his guns. Don't you see the soap on the counter?

[fish]

Seriously, glad you're okay, Greg. That's pretty damn terrifying.

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"But about the reindeer...what kind of a nose shines? How did he get it? Maybe it's not a reindeer after all. It could be something else."

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Spamamander in a pear tree
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by Kitten in the rain:
Am I the only one who looked at those pictures and thought "OMG! The bullet almost hit his computer!!!"?

I know. It's a disease. [Wink]

Erm *shamefaced look* I thought the same thing.

Then I thought of the fact that he was playing WoW instead of Lineage. [Razz]

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"There is a race between mankind and the universe. Mankind is trying to build bigger, better, faster, and more foolproof machines. The universe is trying to build bigger, better, and faster fools. So far the universe is winning." -Albert Einstein

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Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Over here we call our reasons "bad people." And "low police presence."
Then you load the gun when you KNOW you'll need it, you never keep a loaded gun at home. If you have time to go fetch the gun, you have time to put a few cartridges in it.

Also, remember that the main reason to own a gun is so that you will not have to use it. Waving an unloaded gun is just as effective deterent as waving a loaded gun, and you really do not want to shoot someone if it can be avoided.

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/Troberg

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Moth Drone
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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Love the good use for the flack jacket at the end. Thanks for the laugh, Greg of Winter. And glad you're all right.
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mnotr2
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by Troberg:
Waving an unloaded gun is just as effective deterent as waving a loaded gun, and you really do not want to shoot someone if it can be avoided.

No Troberg, waving an unloaded gun is a real good way to get killed. Waving any gun is a sure sign that you're a moron.

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Infinite goodness is creating a being you know, in advance, is going to complain.
Captain Billy Cutshaw

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Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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I didn't say that it was smart, just that it was as effective as waving a loaded gun.

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/Troberg

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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Until your bluff is called.

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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Xia
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Hey, Greg I just had a quick question...
Just curious if you were sitting straight when that happened, or leaning to the (left) side at all?
The reason I ask is I am left rather than right handed, my mouse is on the right (opposite side) and I tend to lean in my computer chair to the right, meaning if that was me I'd probably be at the very least missing a chunk of scalp... [Eek!]

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Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

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Malruhn
The "Was on Sale" Song


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Yeah!

And if you have time to go get the gun and then go get the ammo, you have time to twist some wire into a spring to fit into the magazine!!

And if youhave time to get the gun and get the ammo and twist the wire, you also have time to fabricate the entire magazine!

And if you have time for that, you have time to forge and mill the entire gun!!
_______________________

Sorry, Troberg, pacifism has its place, and when considering reaching for a firearm, it is NOT the place.
_______________________

And Greg, I'm glad you didn't experience the ballistics performance personally as well! DAMN! With MY luck, I would have been playing Medal of Honor online ... "WOW! What REALISM!! They downloaded BLOOD onto me!"

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Opinions aren't excuses to remain ignorant about subjects, nor are they excuses to never examine one's beliefs & prejudices...

Babies are like tattoos. You see other peoples' & they're cool, but yours is never as good & you can't get rid of it.

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Wicked Tinkerbell
Hock Harold Angel's Bling


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Dude, glad your OK!!! [Eek!]


quote:
Originally posted by Spamamander with cheese on rye:
quote:
Originally posted by Kitten in the rain:
Am I the only one who looked at those pictures and thought "OMG! The bullet almost hit his computer!!!"?

I know. It's a disease. [Wink]

Erm *shamefaced look* I thought the same thing.

Then I thought of the fact that he was playing WoW instead of Lineage. [Razz]

Make that 'me three'... First thought was 'Holy NFBSK Batman! Thank God he's OK!' Then, The SOB almost hit the laptop too!'

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"I'm not Irish, I'm Celtic. The difference? Celts cut off your head and put it on their door lintel." --Aimee Evilpixie
"People are bastard-covered bastards with bastard filling."--Scrubs

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Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Sorry, Troberg, pacifism has its place, and when considering reaching for a firearm, it is NOT the place.
Don't mistake me for a pacifist. I just think that the danger of keeping a loaded gun is greater than the danger that you might not have time to load it.

That's why the only gun I keep loaded is the one in my pants... [Big Grin]

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/Troberg

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RangerDog
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Greg,
I have been thinking about this all night. I'll bet he was standing in front of the mirror, practicing his draw, and watching himself say, "Make my day, punk."

I am glad you didn't get shot.

So much for fire resistant walls in your apartment, I guess.

John

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Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day; give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish

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Arriah
The First USA Noel


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I had the "OMG almost hit the computer too" thought. Then I was trying to see what realm he was playing on in WoW [Smile]

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Conforming meant that everyone liked you except yourself
Rebecca

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DawnStorm
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Damn!! [Eek!] Glad you weren't hit!

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Leashes?! We don't need no stinking leashes!!

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robbiev - singin' off key
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Glad you're ok.

To some degree, I can relate and "feel your pain." I'm a shooting instructor and one of the things I try to tell people is to not believe all of the crap they hear about guns.

Almost any time I tell someone something that conflicts with what they "know" to be true, they accuse me of making it up or simply not knowing what I'm talking about about.

Robbiev -if you read it in a gun magazine, it MUST be true- 427

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Every time I see a good looking woman, I think, "0oooh. There's another one I'll never have!"

Corvette. The louder you scream, the faster I'll go.

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Greg of Winter
Xboxing Day


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Well, it could have been worse.

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Meanwhile, at stately Wayne Manor...

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