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Author Topic: If you can't say something nice...*UPDATE*
laura 2
The First USA Noel


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Okay, I don't often post in Rantidote, but this has me sooooo ticked off this morning! I'm sorry if this is long, but arrrrrrgh!

As some of you know, I am a professional Belly Dance performer and teacher. I run my business like any other small business owner would, putting a lot of thought into how to reinvest the income I make into the business. I planned my first professional photo shoot, because one thing my website and other promotional materials are missing are really nice studio shots. Through dancing, I have gotten to know a photographer that shoots a lot of the shows I do in Chicago. He is just making the transition from hobbyist to professional, and prices himself accordingly. I got an excellent deal on a rate per half hour and a CD of all images taken during the shoot with permission to use them freely with photographer credit.

I had the shoot on Sunday and I was *thrilled*. He shot for 3 hours (I did 3 costume changes) and from what I could see in the preview window, some of these shots are going to be awesome. He had good, professional quality equipment and was just overall great to work with. I brought a student with me for company (the photog is over 2 hours away from where I live) who is a print model and has worked with lots of photographers. She also thought he was very professional for his experience level.

Anyway, here's the rant. Because many of my dance friends know how much I've been looking forward to this, I sent a few of them of them a quick email the next day saying that I had the shoot, it was wonderful, loved working with the photog, blah blah blah. One of these dancers, ironically one that I'm closest to, sent me back a reply that just felt like she was trying to pour a bucket of cold water on my enthusiasm, and it really hurt my feelings.

Because this photographer is at so many Chicago events, a lot of my dance friends know him too. While my friend has never said anything negative about him before, she responded to my email that the last event we were at with him, he gave her a "creepy" vibe. She also said that she thought some of his pictures we saw recently from a Ren Faire were inappropriate because they focused on too much cleavage (there is so much cleavage at the Faire I don't know how he couldn't take pictures that didn't feature that to some extent). In short, she wrapped up her email by saying, "I'm glad you had a good experience, but I'd never have a shoot with him." [Mad] Well, thank you very much for insinuating that my judgement is totally lacking in that respect. I shot her back an email that said that in over 3 hours, he never made me feel uncomfortable once, and that my student who has lots of experience with photographers thought his behavior was totally appropriate and professional. She's trying to backpedal now, and I'm not having it.

This pisses me off for two reasons:

a)if she's suddenly creeped out by him, could she not have kept it to herself, at least temporarily? I could understand if she was trying to warn me *before* the shoot, but this was after I shared my decidedly non-creepy experience.

b)I don't like the idea that she is talking about the photographer like this behind his back. She's entitiled to her opinion, but as I said, he is building a professional business that geared towards photographing dancers. This is the sort of thing that could really get around in our community, and I'd hate to see him fail because of petty gossip.

I don't know if this is sour grapes because she felt like I was bragging - it's not unusual at all for us to share positive stuff like this via email. I have gotten several emails from this same dancer recently gushing about workshops she is teaching that are selling out right and left. Or if she just didn't think about how it would come across on my end? Of course the other idea is that I'm being overly-sensitive. Completely possible, but since I'm not exactly known for my tender feelings, it would be very unusual for me to feel hurt by an off the cuff remark.

Anyway, thank you all for listening to this self-absorbed rant. Both sympathetic vibes or ass-kicks for being such a whiny baby are equally welcomed from snopesters. [Big Grin]

--------------------
My Belly Dance Business - Galatea Middle Eastern Dance - www.galateadancer.com

Q: What's the difference between an onion and a mizmar?
A: No one cries when they cut up a mizmar.

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FrogFeathers
Grandma Got Run Over By a Gift Card


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Maybe it is sour grapes from her side. But if she was really creeped out by the guy, why wouldn't she tell you before just on a safety issue? I tell my friends if something I think they're going to do would harm them.

And, I'm sending you a PM with a couple questions about your dancing. [Smile]

--------------------
"Is it ME? Am I a MAGNET for these idiots?"~Pearl Forrester MST3K
Die-Hard Engineers, Big Red One my Dad's website
"Must be a 'snopes' thing..." ~my entire family when I try to explain something.

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forcadragons
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Originally posted by laura 2:

a)if she's suddenly creeped out by him, could she not have kept it to herself, at least temporarily? I could understand if she was trying to warn me *before* the shoot, but this was after I shared my decidedly non-creepy experience.

So she didn't know you were doing this before the event ?

quote:
Originally posted by laura 2:
b)I don't like the idea that she is talking about the photographer like this behind his back. She's entitiled to her opinion, but as I said, he is building a professional business that geared towards photographing dancers. This is the sort of thing that could really get around in our community, and I'd hate to see him fail because of petty gossip.

Is she threatening to sling mud, or is she justs telling you?

quote:
Originally posted by laura 2:
Of course the other idea is that I'm being overly-sensitive.

I think you may be.

--------------------
We're sorry to bother you at such a time like this, Mrs. Twice. We would have come earlier, but your husband wasn't dead then.

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The Year Without A SeaPea
Deck the Malls


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Okay now, repeat after me..."What-EVER!" Oh, and make sure you get an eyeroll in there too [Roll Eyes]

If she really was "creeped out", she should have mentioned it beforehand. Mentioning it now is useless. And I wouldn't worry about this guy's reputation...other dancers will see the pictures he took of you, and will be able to see the quality of the work he does.

So just ignore her. And let me know when your pics are posted!

--------------------
you can't fight biology...

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laura 2
The First USA Noel


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quote:


So she didn't know you were doing this before the event ?

Yes, she knew about the photo shoot for at least 2 months. The event where she got apparently her creepy feeling was about 3 weeks ago - she never mentioned anything about it to me, knowing that I was doing a shoot with him later in the month.


quote:
Is she threatening to sling mud, or is she justs telling you?

I don't know if she has mentioned this to any other dancers. I just know that we belong to a dance community where gossip, true or untrue, gets around in the blink of an eye. At a show in Milwaukee recently, a dancer did something silly in her performance. The next day, her former teacher in Chicago, *who did not attend the event*, emailed her that she didn't think the sillyness was appropriate. You cannot even begin to imagine the dramas that are created by a bunch of Belly Dancers - it's like nothing I've ever seen. So I guess my point is that if she does mention it to dancers beside myself, chances are it will get spread around.

quote:

I think you may be.

Like I said myself, it's possible. [Wink]

--------------------
My Belly Dance Business - Galatea Middle Eastern Dance - www.galateadancer.com

Q: What's the difference between an onion and a mizmar?
A: No one cries when they cut up a mizmar.

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The Year Without A SeaPea
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by laura 2:

You cannot even begin to imagine the dramas that are created by a bunch of Belly Dancers -

Actually yes, I think I can. [lol]

Sea"been there, done that, bought the hip scarf"Pea

--------------------
you can't fight biology...

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laura 2
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by SeaPea-Bee N Jay:
quote:
Originally posted by laura 2:

You cannot even begin to imagine the dramas that are created by a bunch of Belly Dancers -

Actually yes, I think I can. [lol]

Sea"been there, done that, bought the hip scarf"Pea

Yep, it doesn't matter where you are in the world - if you've got Belly Dancers, you've got drama. [Big Grin] But I've been told we're *nothing* compared to ballet dancers.

--------------------
My Belly Dance Business - Galatea Middle Eastern Dance - www.galateadancer.com

Q: What's the difference between an onion and a mizmar?
A: No one cries when they cut up a mizmar.

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Lydia Oh Lydia
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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laura,
I think some people are just like that. It doesn't excuse their behavior at all, but I think they have some need or desire to tell you something negative.

--------------------
"My name is the symbol for my identity and must not be lost." Motto of the Lucy Stone League.

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Signora Del Drago
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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I don't think you are too sensitive, at all. It seems that you are more concerned with the photographer's possibly getting an undeserved bad rep than you are about yourself. That is commendable. The only advice I can give you is to keep your ears open, and when/if you hear any untrue talk about him or receive any more e-mails on the subject, immediately and firmly dispute the claim, just as you did the first time.

--------------------
"This air we're breathing. Oxygen, isn't it?"~I’mNotDedalus, impersonating Vincent D’Onofrio.|"Sometimes trying to communicate can be like walking through a minefield."~wanderwoman
"Give people a break. It's not easy doing a life."~Joshua Halberstam

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laura 2
The First USA Noel


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Thanks, guys. [Smile]

The thing that really hurt me is that ordinarily, she is a very supportive person that I am quite close too. There are a lot of negative people in our community that I don't have much contact with outside of a "smile and nod" at shows and workshops, because of this sort of thing. If it had been someone who had a habit of trying to cut me off at the knees, I'd have laughed it off as, "Well what can you expect from so-an-so?". I am trying to consider that this person has a lot of non-dance related issues going on in her life right now, and I may have caught her at a bad time. I think I made it clear in my response that she had touched a nerve, and she seems to be in regrouping mode. But it still stings a little.

Sea-Pea and Signora, you are both right - they say a picture speaks a thousand words. I am hoping that when other dancers see how tastful and lovely his shots are, they will remember that more than any stray gossip they've heard blowing in the breeze.

--------------------
My Belly Dance Business - Galatea Middle Eastern Dance - www.galateadancer.com

Q: What's the difference between an onion and a mizmar?
A: No one cries when they cut up a mizmar.

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NaNa
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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Some people just always try to rain on your parade.
On the other hand, oh how I would love to learn how to bellydance!! Unfortunately, I am very far away from you so I think lessons are out of the question. I've been looking up videos online but don't know which would be appropriate for a beginner like me. Any suggestions? Or do you know a teacher in the Cleveland, OH area?

--------------------
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" -Gandhi

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Ms. Kringle
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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quote:
Originally posted by laura 2:
quote:
Originally posted by SeaPea-Bee N Jay:
quote:
Originally posted by laura 2:

You cannot even begin to imagine the dramas that are created by a bunch of Belly Dancers -

Actually yes, I think I can. [lol]

Sea"been there, done that, bought the hip scarf"Pea

Yep, it doesn't matter where you are in the world - if you've got Belly Dancers, you've got drama. [Big Grin] But I've been told we're *nothing* compared to ballet dancers.
*rolling eyes*

Having been friends with ballet dancers, they certainly do spend most of their time not dancing delving into Lifestyles Of The Young And Stupid.

Of course, if you think that's bad? Try the restaurant business. I swear to God, these people a)drink like fish, and b)stab each other in the back so often it's amazing they don't drip blood everywhere they go.

I've never seen as much gossip and drama as among restaurant people. Especially restaurant managers. I have heard more rumors from management than I have anyone else ever in my LIFE!

And yet, my husband asks why I don't like going to manager functions...hmm, I don't like being the topic of conversation that usually starts with, "OMG, did you see Ms. K? She was SUCH a bitch to So-and-So, did you hear what she said?" when I did nothing of the sort.

When I do go? I try to keep my mouth shut, and well away from liquor. I made that mistake, drinking a lot, ONCE, at a manager function. Never again in a million years will I do that.

Sorry for the hijack.

Getting back to your original topic, some people just think that it's their DUTY to rain on your parade. This also falls under the category of "just plain being a bitch" for whatever reason.

Ignore her, and make sure you counter her nonsense around belly dancing circles with the truth, and frankly, I'd outright question her motives for saying something to anyone you hear, "I heard that X said Y about Photographer Guy," from.

But, nobody ever said I was nice...

--------------------
Beware corporate zombies! They will purchase your brain on E-Bay!

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laura 2
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by HotBlondeMom:
Some people just always try to rain on your parade.
On the other hand, oh how I would love to learn how to bellydance!! Unfortunately, I am very far away from you so I think lessons are out of the question. I've been looking up videos online but don't know which would be appropriate for a beginner like me. Any suggestions? Or do you know a teacher in the Cleveland, OH area?

Shira's Teacher directory shows a lot of Cleveland belly dancers:

http://www.shira.net/dir-us-o.htm

Looks like quite a good sized MED community out there - definately contact some of them regarding lessons! Videos are okay if there are no instructors around, but you can't really 100% replace the feedback you can get from a live human being.

--------------------
My Belly Dance Business - Galatea Middle Eastern Dance - www.galateadancer.com

Q: What's the difference between an onion and a mizmar?
A: No one cries when they cut up a mizmar.

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Barbara
Layaway in a Manger


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Two things, laura 2:

1) This isn't a fight worth having, or even something that you should let upset you for more than a few minutes. You had a great shoot. The photo previews you saw looked great. Neither you nor your friend got a bad vibe off the photographer. All in all, if this doesn't qualify as a positive experience, I don't know what does. So let go of the bad feelings your friend has raised and enjoy your photos when they come in. Bask - you've earned it.

2) This of what you said especially struck me:

quote:
Originally posted by laura 2:
I don't know if this is sour grapes because she felt like I was bragging - it's not unusual at all for us to share positive stuff like this via email. I have gotten several emails from this same dancer recently gushing about workshops she is teaching that are selling out right and left.

Could it be that your friend is fine with the reportings of success only when they are her successes? That when others appear to succeed, she searches for ways to undermine their positive experiences? I don't know if this is true in your friend's case, but if it is, she likely would be unaware of what she's doing, of how she always seems to go into sour grapes mode when anyone else tries to trumpet something that went well.

In summary:

Let go of this fight - it's not worth losing any more of yourself to.

Keep a weather eye on this friend re how she reacts to the success of others.

Barbara "don't let her weirdness become your problem" Mikkelson

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Nonny Mouse, on Santa's laptop
Once in Royal Circuit City


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Just to add to what Barabara said...

If your friend does start talking trash about this photographer, you can always counteract it by letting it get around how positive your experience with him was. Which you probably want to do anyway, right?

Nonny

--------------------
When there isn't anything else worth analyzing, we examine our collective navel. I found thirty-six cents in change in mine the other day. Let no one say that there is no profit in philosophy. -- Silas Sparkhammer

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Silas Sparkhammer
I Saw V-Chips Come Sailing In


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quote:
Originally posted by Ms. K:
But, nobody ever said I was nice...

Sometimes, all it takes is one person to say two words, and the world is forever changed.

"You're nice!"

That much, at least, I can accomplish!

Silas

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Ms. Kringle
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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Why thank you, Silas!

I really should try catching up with you sometime, shouldn't I?

I think what it comes down to is that I don't tolerate fools willingly, gladly, or really at all. And someone who is willing to spread nastiness about someone on unfounded nonsense falls into that category.

So, I guess it's off to look you up again?

--------------------
Beware corporate zombies! They will purchase your brain on E-Bay!

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laura 2
The First USA Noel


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I got Barbara advice! *bask* [Big Grin]

Yep, after a long rant on Snopes (with accompanying excellent advice from snopesters), equally long verbal rant to my hubby, a fairly decent day at my day job, a great class with my teen dance students, and the lovely glass of wine I'm having right now as I post, I find I'm feeling like I have a lot more perspective on the whole thing. Barbara is absolutely right - whatever is going on with my friend is her deal, and letting it bring me down is what turns her problem into my problem.

Yes, she did something that pissed me off, but we have been friends for over two years now and this certainly isn't worth ruining that over. So I'm letting it go, with the caveat that now I realize I'm not immune from her occasional unpleasant judgement of others. Forewarned is forearmed. [Wink]

Thanks to everyone who responded to this thread - *squishy hugs* to you all.

--------------------
My Belly Dance Business - Galatea Middle Eastern Dance - www.galateadancer.com

Q: What's the difference between an onion and a mizmar?
A: No one cries when they cut up a mizmar.

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Kitten in the rain
Jingle Bell Hock


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I'll bet it's sour grapes. Lots of people would be jealous of someone who got to have studio photographs done of themselves with full costume, especially if the photographer is known to be a good one.

I like to derail the "I don't like X person because..." gossips by smiling sweetly to them and saying 'Well, I get along with him/her just fine.' in a tone of voice that implies that the problem is with them, not the person they 'dislike'. Nothing sends a complainer over the edge faster than the implication that the complaint is their fault. (I only do this with the gossipy complaining sort, mind.)

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snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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You are lovely, the photos are lovely, I'm confused as to what could possible be "creepy" about them? - I'm assuming the pictures on your site are his photos? If not, and if his photos make you look even nicer than those do...man, I can see why someone would be JEALOUS!

I SOOO wish I lived close to you and could do belly dancing lessons with you!!!!! Gah, what FUN it looks like.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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laura 2
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by snapdragonfly:
You are lovely, the photos are lovely, I'm confused as to what could possible be "creepy" about them? - I'm assuming the pictures on your site are his photos? If not, and if his photos make you look even nicer than those do...man, I can see why someone would be JEALOUS!

I SOOO wish I lived close to you and could do belly dancing lessons with you!!!!! Gah, what FUN it looks like.

I'm glad you like the ones on my site, but those are not the studio shots. All of the ones I have there currently are snapshots from a regular digital camera (except for the holiday themed one in the photo gallery - that one is a pro shot). Hopefully in a couple of weeks, I'll have the site updated with the new pics.

It is fun! Contact one of the teachers in the link I provided - you won't regret it! [Big Grin]

--------------------
My Belly Dance Business - Galatea Middle Eastern Dance - www.galateadancer.com

Q: What's the difference between an onion and a mizmar?
A: No one cries when they cut up a mizmar.

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laura 2
The First USA Noel


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Just wanted to let those who expressed interest in this thread know that my website (in my sig) is updated with the studio shots. They can be found on the Home Page, Bio Page, Contact Information Page and there's a whole bunch in the Photo Galley. If it has a "Copyright 2006 Richard Nagle" on or near it, it's from the shoot.

--------------------
My Belly Dance Business - Galatea Middle Eastern Dance - www.galateadancer.com

Q: What's the difference between an onion and a mizmar?
A: No one cries when they cut up a mizmar.

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lexiemom
Tic Tac Dough


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Ooh! They're gorgeous! I don't see anything creepy about them.
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Nonny Mouse, on Santa's laptop
Once in Royal Circuit City


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I agree with lexiemom. I see several very tasteful pictures of an attractive woman posing in pretty dance costumes. There's nothing a bit creepy about any of them.

Nonny

--------------------
When there isn't anything else worth analyzing, we examine our collective navel. I found thirty-six cents in change in mine the other day. Let no one say that there is no profit in philosophy. -- Silas Sparkhammer

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frogpond
Jingle Sales


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Can't say that I'm creeped out either. Gorgeous pictures.

--------------------
So many books, so little time.

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The Year Without A SeaPea
Deck the Malls


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The pictures came out great! Way to go [Smile]

--------------------
you can't fight biology...

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Lydia Oh Lydia
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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They look really good. Definitely professional looking. I think those go well with the candid/performance shots that you have on there now.

--------------------
"My name is the symbol for my identity and must not be lost." Motto of the Lucy Stone League.

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snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Creepy? *snort* Poppycock. They are tasteful and you look lovely.

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"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

Posts: 2397 | From: Texarkana, TX | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
FrogFeathers
Grandma Got Run Over By a Gift Card


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Cool pictures!

Here's a quote from my 14 year old son: "Daaaang, she's hot!"

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"Is it ME? Am I a MAGNET for these idiots?"~Pearl Forrester MST3K
Die-Hard Engineers, Big Red One my Dad's website
"Must be a 'snopes' thing..." ~my entire family when I try to explain something.

Posts: 4524 | From: South of Madison, Wisconsin | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Signora Del Drago
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Beautiful photos of a beautiful lady!

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"This air we're breathing. Oxygen, isn't it?"~I’mNotDedalus, impersonating Vincent D’Onofrio.|"Sometimes trying to communicate can be like walking through a minefield."~wanderwoman
"Give people a break. It's not easy doing a life."~Joshua Halberstam

Posts: 4020 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Cervus
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Very lovely. I like your green ensemble the best.

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"There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen
Won't somebody please think of the adults!

Posts: 8254 | From: Florida | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
laura 2
The First USA Noel


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Thank you all so much for your lovely compliments! *blush* Frog_Feathers, your son's response is really funny, especially since I'll never see 35 again. If you guys could see what I look like out of my Galatea getup, you'd never know it was me - there's a huge transformation involving hairpices, stage makup, and carefully constructed costumes.

The photo session was a fairly big investment, but I think it's really going to pay off. I get a lot of leads/gigs from my website, and you know what they say about first impressions. [Wink] Since a lot of people go looking for a Belly Dancer with a lot of misconceptions or outright cluelessness, it's really important that I give them the an impression of professionalism and classiness right from the get-go. If they're looking for a hootchie-kootchie girl to shake it in a harem girl Haloween costume, they've come to the wrong place. [Big Grin]

I hope that these pictures bring Richard new and increased business as well. He's a great photographer, super nice person an really deserves it.

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My Belly Dance Business - Galatea Middle Eastern Dance - www.galateadancer.com

Q: What's the difference between an onion and a mizmar?
A: No one cries when they cut up a mizmar.

Posts: 786 | From: Milwaukee, WI | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
   

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