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Author Topic: Thank you Al, now sit down.
abbubmah
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Al Gore speaks on US treatment of Arabs after 9/11.

quote:
"Unfortunately there have been terrible abuses and it's wrong," Gore said. "I do want you to know that it does not represent the desires or wishes or feelings of the majority of the citizens of my country."
Yep. TERRIBLE. deporting folks for expired visas and green cards. Isn't that "law enforcement"?

On Iran's nuclear program:

quote:
"Is it only for the West to say this is dangerous?" Gore asked. "We should have more people in this region saying this is dangerous."
The region? Where they are chanting "Death to the West and all who oppose us?" Um, NO, it's dangerous from any perspective, mo-ron.

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Fundamentally Unfundie since 1975

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Squoval
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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I have to say, I agree with you, hambubba.

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Don Enrico
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by hambubba, the other white meat:
Al Gore speaks on US treatment of Arabs after 9/11.

quote:
"Unfortunately there have been terrible abuses and it's wrong," Gore said. "I do want you to know that it does not represent the desires or wishes or feelings of the majority of the citizens of my country."
Yep. TERRIBLE. deporting folks for expired visas and green cards. Isn't that "law enforcement"?
From what I read, he was talking about the conditions they've been held under:
quote:
Gore told the largely Saudi audience, many of them educated at U.S. universities, that Arabs in the United States had been "indiscriminately rounded up, often on minor charges of overstaying a visa or not having a green card in proper order, and held in conditions that were just unforgivable."
I don't know about that conditions, but if they were different from other visa- or green card-offenders only on the base of the offenders in this cases being of arabian nationality, this is abuse (not in every case "terrible abuse") in my book - or you may say "lawenforcement gone wrong".

quote:
On Iran's nuclear program:

quote:
"Is it only for the West to say this is dangerous?" Gore asked. "We should have more people in this region saying this is dangerous."
The region? Where they are chanting "Death to the West and all who oppose us?" Um, NO, it's dangerous from any perspective, mo-ron.
And he says we should have more people in the region realising that. Al Gore's wishes and your wishes, hambubba, look quite similar to me.

Don Enrico

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My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling, but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. - Pooh Bear

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abbubmah
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Don - after reading this thread:

about the US possible plans to bomb Iran's nuke sites, I hate to say it, but Al may have a point about the regional neighbors agreeing.

However, they should not be the sole deciding factor, which is what I read into his statement.

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Fundamentally Unfundie since 1975

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by hambubba, the other white meat:
Don - after reading this thread:

about the US possible plans to bomb Iran's nuke sites, I hate to say it, but Al may have a point about the regional neighbors agreeing.

However, they should not be the sole deciding factor, which is what I read into his statement.

Al Gore is not responsible for what you read into his statements.

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Deansinger
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"Several audience members criticized the United States for what they described as "unconditional" U.S. support for Israel, saying U.S. diplomats helped Israel flout U.N. resolutions that they enforced when the measures targeted Arabs"

Let's see.. Israel has historically sided with us on just about every issue that's come up since israel's inception (and before- Jewish settlers sided with the Allies in WWII). When 9/11 happened, there was no video footage of Israelis dancing in the streets. To the best of my knowlege, Israeli Jews are rarely involved in terrorist attacks on the US. We have influence within the UN, and we have used it to support those who have been friendly to our causes. International politics is a dirty business, and always has been. Diplomacy has always been a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" game. I don't see how anyone can seriously expect the US to be supportive of societies that wish for the destruction of ours.

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It doesn't matter if you're wrong.. Be Wrong Loud!

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abbubmah
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
Al Gore is not responsible for what you read into his statements.

WTF...

Maybe he should speak more clearly, be quoted properly, or maybe I should stop commenting without your review first.

Should I bow, kiss a ring, or just throw beads?

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Fundamentally Unfundie since 1975

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Mistletoey Chloe
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Or just be honest. He references "being indiscrimately rounded up" and "unforgivable conditions": you render that into "deporting folks for expired visas and green cards." So you must have felt that what he actually said wasn't worthy of mockery, but decided to mock him anyway by twisting his words. How strange.

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~~Ai am in mai prrrrrraime!~~

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Signora Del Drago
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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I vote for bowing. Oh, and for not being so snarky. Now I guess I'll get slapped a little. Nothing new. Carry on.

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"This air we're breathing. Oxygen, isn't it?"~I’mNotDedalus, impersonating Vincent D’Onofrio.|"Sometimes trying to communicate can be like walking through a minefield."~wanderwoman
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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by hambubba, the other white meat:
quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
Al Gore is not responsible for what you read into his statements.

WTF...

Maybe he should speak more clearly, be quoted properly, or maybe I should stop commenting without your review first.

Should I bow, kiss a ring, or just throw beads?

No kissing, please. I don't know where you've been.

Seriously, try commenting on what he actually said. What you "read into" his comments (your words) came from your head, not his.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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Mickey Blue
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Deansinger:
"Several audience members criticized the United States for what they described as "unconditional" U.S. support for Israel, saying U.S. diplomats helped Israel flout U.N. resolutions that they enforced when the measures targeted Arabs"

Let's see.. Israel has historically sided with us on just about every issue that's come up since israel's inception (and before- Jewish settlers sided with the Allies in WWII). When 9/11 happened, there was no video footage of Israelis dancing in the streets. To the best of my knowlege, Israeli Jews are rarely involved in terrorist attacks on the US. We have influence within the UN, and we have used it to support those who have been friendly to our causes. International politics is a dirty business, and always has been. Diplomacy has always been a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" game. I don't see how anyone can seriously expect the US to be supportive of societies that wish for the destruction of ours.

Perhaps, in fact your no doubt correct (and it no doubt applies to many if not all other countries as well) but it kind of takes some of the wind of of your sales when you start a war over 'noncomplience with UN standerds' and 'terrorist attacks' then turn around and support a country that dosn't comply with UN standards and participates in terrorist attacks*.

*Assuming the assertions in the article are true, I do not feel like researching it right now and the post I'm responding to did not attempt to disprove the initial statement, mearly rationalize it.

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abbubmah
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Hunh...

OK.

What I read from his comments reinforces my opinion that Al Gore is an excellent speaker, says what his audience wants to hear, gets claps and amens, but on later introspection you realize he didn't say anything important at all...

Oh, and "reading into" something IS commenting. Agreeing with the perception isn't required, expected, or solicited. We do it here all the time.

Let's re-examine it by sentence:

quote:
"Is it only for the West to say this is dangerous?" Gore asked.
"to say"? no. "Should be the only one to say" is the implication. "responsible" to say? Yes, but he doesn't state that.

quote:
"We should have more people in this region saying this is dangerous."
Absolutely, positively, no disagreement there... But, knowing Al's method of appeasing by speech, I believe the implication is "the US should get out of deciding what is dangerous on the other side of the world." And "The US shouldn't be the sole decider in what happens in your part of the world".

I agree with the second statement, but not the first, BTW.

That's what I "Read into" Al's statement. More, I guess, what he DIDN'T say.

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Jason Threadslayer
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Israel is currently in noncompliance with resolutions 242 and 338, at least.

These resolutions call for withdrawl from territories captured during the Six Day War in exchange for "termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force."

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Turing test failures: 6

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First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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Of course, it is usually ignored that there is considerable difference between the UN articles under which the Israeli resolutions were made and those under which the Iraqi resolutions were made.

All the Israeli resolutions were made under the auspices of Chapter 6, and are non-binding, essentially powerless "advisory" resolutions.

However, Chapter 7 resolutions (The Iraqi ones, for those of you keeping score) grant the UNSC considerably more power to take action, including warlike action, to deal with “threats to the peace, breaches of the peace, or acts of aggression”. They ARE binding.

The ignorance many average people have of this difference makes it much easier for others to fool them into thinking that apples and oranges are the same color.

Fortunately, many of us here are above-average, and thusly I'm sure this explanation is redundant for them.

As for Al Gore, I'm still internally debating over whether "incitement" of the enemy counts as "aiding and abetting" or "providing comfort to."

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"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by First among Eagles:
As for Al Gore, I'm still internally debating over whether "incitement" of the enemy counts as "aiding and abetting" or "providing comfort to."

"Incitement"? You mean like saying, "Bring it on!"?

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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I hear tell now that Gore's trip was paid for by the Bin Laden family.

Paging Michael Moore...

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"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle

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