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Author Topic: German man files torture case against CIA
Open Mike Night
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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German man files torture case against CIA

quote:
A German man filed a lawsuit Tuesday claiming he was held captive and tortured by U.S. government agents after being mistakenly identified as an associate of the September 11 hijackers.
quote:
"I am asking the American government to admit its mistakes and to apologize for my treatment," el-Masri said in a statement. "Throughout my time in the prison, I asked to be brought before a court but was refused. Now I am hoping that an American court will say very clearly that what happened to me was illegal and cannot be done to others."
quote:
El-Masri, 42, was born in Kuwait to Lebanese parents and moved to Germany in 1985. The married father of five said that on New Year's Eve 2003 he boarded a bus in his hometown of Neu-Ulm for a holiday in Macedonia. At the border he was stopped by Macedonian authorities and his passport was confiscated.

He said he was detained by local authorities for 23 days and then handed over to what he believes was a team of CIA operatives. He then was flown to Afghanistan where he was subjected to abuse during four months in captivity.



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On the crusade to eliminate Moral Asshattery wherever it exists
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Open Mike Night
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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US may make mistakes in 'war on terror': Rice

quote:
Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice admitted on Tuesday that the United States may make mistakes in its "war on terrorism" and promised to put them right if they happened.

quote:
But German Chancellor Angela Merkel said the U.S. government had acknowledged it blundered over Masri, who plans to sue the CIA in a case to be filed in the United States later on Tuesday.

"I'm pleased to say that we spoke about the individual case, which was accepted by the United States as a mistake, and so I'm very pleased the foreign minister (Rice) has reiterated that if mistakes are made, they must immediately be rectified," Merkel told a joint news conference.

Masri's case has caused a furor in Germany, fueled by a U.S. newspaper report that the former interior minister was told of the case in May 2004 and agreed to a request from the U.S. ambassador to keep it quiet.



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On the crusade to eliminate Moral Asshattery wherever it exists
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abigsmurf
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the US can't keep dodging these cases. Eventually they will get done for these cases of torture, even if it's in a foreign court
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Elwood
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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Add the CIA ruse against Italian intelligence and U.S. kidnapping someone within their borders while telling them the guy fled on his own and I start wondering how the U.S. has any allies left at all.

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"If I didn't see it and didn't know it was a real news report, I wouldn't believe it. I mean, how nutty can you get?"-Pat Robertson Oct 26, 2006.

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Salamander
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Where's the guy with the "you can't legislate something that doesn't exist" quote regarding torture in his sig line? I'm not sure if he quotes it because he agrees with it or because he thinks it absurd, I'd be interested to know.

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"victory thru self-deception"

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evilbeard
We Three Blings


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German official told of abduction in '04
quote:
Germany's ex-interior minister was informed by a U.S. diplomat in 2004 that a German citizen claimed to have been mistakenly abducted by the CIA, the ministry said Wednesday. Separately, the minister at that time, Otto Schily, said in an interview to be published Thursday that the United States failed to respond in "appropriate form" to a request for information about Khaled al-Masri, the Lebanese-born German national making the allegations


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rex linum occisor et erronis

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PatYoung
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Saddam tortures people because they might have been involved in a terrorist assasination plot against him. He is now on trial for his life. Does the court's jurisdiction cover Pres. Bush?

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pat "Megadittoes Rush" young

THUMP, THUMP, THUMP

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Friends of Alfred
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by PatYoung:
Saddam tortures people because they might have been involved in a terrorist assasination plot against him. He is now on trial for his life. Does the court's jurisdiction cover Pres. Bush?

Should be interesting to read the Pro-Bush responses to this Pat.

How long before somebody squeals "But Clinton....."?

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Don Gato
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by Friends of Alfred:
Should be interesting to read the Pro-Bush responses to this Pat.

How long before somebody squeals "But Clinton....."?

Haven't you figured it out yet? The correct response is, "We don't torture people. And if we do, it's because they deserve it. And it works. But we don't torture people."

Think I'm exaggerating? Not so much.

Don Gato

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Cold DecEmbra Brings The Sleet
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Yeah, but guys, y'know, what would you do if you had a choice between torturing one person, and being responsible for a million dead babies (cute ones)?

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I want you to lay down your life, Perkins. We need a futile gesture at this stage. It will raise the whole tone of the war.

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Richard W
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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From Don's link:

quote:
Ms. Rice's pledge that the U.S. isn't "torturing" anyone on European soil, or anywhere else, ought to be all the reassurance Europeans need.
Aha, yes - put like that I suddenly don't see what all the fuss is about. How could we doubt that nice Ms. Rice? I shall stop worrying my little European head about it immediately.

And "waterboarding"? That's probably a bit like surfing, isn't it? See, we told you prison was just like a holiday camp!

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Silas Sparkhammer
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quote:
Originally posted by Embra:
Yeah, but guys, y'know, what would you do if you had a choice between torturing one person, and being responsible for a million dead babies (cute ones)?

Ugly ones, now, we can spare...

But, seriously, this brings up the problem with strict utilitarianism as a moral philosophy: it admits of "utility monsters."

In fact, a lot of standard statistics break down in the realm of low-odds/high-cost events. For instance, say a million people would be killed if a particular dam breaks. But the probability of breakage is only one in a million. Well, then, the "expected" loss of life is only one person.

Mathematically, correct. But in moral terms, it is completely meaningless; either a million people die all at once or none do. You can't isolate one person, shoot him, and then declare that the dam is safe!

The moral question begged by Embra's question is, in essence: "What would it take to turn you into a moral monster?"

Would you do horrid, monstrous, evil things, if, by doing so, you could account for a greater good (or the prevention of an even greater evil?)

It is *not* a trivial question to answer.

Silas

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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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quote:
Originally posted by PatYoung:
Saddam tortures people because they might have been involved in a terrorist assasination plot against him. He is now on trial for his life. Does the court's jurisdiction cover Pres. Bush?

No. It is an Iraqi court trying a case of crimes committed in Iraq by an Iraqi. Any crimes related to US torture for Bush would be a US court or an international court.

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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evilbeard
We Three Blings


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quote:
Originally posted by Richard W:
From Don's link:

quote:
Ms. Rice's pledge that the U.S. isn't "torturing" anyone on European soil, or anywhere else, ought to be all the reassurance Europeans need.
Aha, yes - put like that I suddenly don't see what all the fuss is about. How could we doubt that nice Ms. Rice? I shall stop worrying my little European head about it immediately.

And "waterboarding"? That's probably a bit like surfing, isn't it? See, we told you prison was just like a holiday camp!

Pentagon Memo on Torture-Motivated Transfer Cited
quote:
A court filing describes a classified proposal to send a detainee away for information extraction.
quote:
Although Bush administration officials have denied that they transfer terrorism suspects to countries where they are likely to be abused, a classified memorandum described in a court case indicates that the Pentagon has considered sending a captured militant abroad to be interrogated under threat of torture.
quote:
The March 17, 2004, Defense Department memo indicated that American officials were frustrated in trying to obtain information from Ahmad, according to the description of the classified memo in the court petition. The officials suggested sending Ahmad to an unspecified foreign country that employed torture in order to increase chances of extracting information from him, according to the petition's description of the memo.

The precise contents of the Pentagon memo on Ahmad were not revealed, but the memo was described in the petition by New York attorney Marc D. Falkoff, who contested the transfer of Ahmad and 12 other Yemenis in U.S. District Court in Washington this year.

Falkoff's description was not disputed by U.S. government lawyers or by U.S. District Judge Rosemary M. Collyer, who read the actual Pentagon document. The judge ruled in favor of the Yemenis on March 12, and Ahmad has not been transferred from the Guantanamo Bay detention facility.

The memo appears to call into question repeated assertions by the administration that it does not use foreign governments to abuse suspected militants — what critics call "torture by proxy."



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rex linum occisor et erronis

But Jimmy has fancy plans... and pants to match. The monkey clown horrible karate round and yummy like cute small baby chick would beat the donkey."

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Don Enrico
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Richard W:
quote:
Ms. Rice's pledge that the U.S. isn't "torturing" anyone on European soil, or anywhere else, ought to be all the reassurance Europeans need.
Aha, yes - put like that I suddenly don't see what all the fuss is about. How could we doubt that nice Ms. Rice? I shall stop worrying my little European head about it immediately.

And on top of that, that reassurance is coming from an administration that only weeks ago felt the need to explicitly exclude CIA agents in forgein countries form a law forbidding torture.

Me, I'm not worried anymore, either. Thanks, Ms. Rice.

Don "old European" Enrico

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My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling, but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places. - Pooh Bear

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Greg of Winter
Xboxing Day


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quote:
Originally posted by Don Gato:
]Haven't you figured it out yet? The correct response is, "We don't torture people. And if we do, it's because they deserve it. And it works. But we don't torture people."

Think I'm exaggerating? Not so much.

Don Gato

Wow, a conservative praising military action in Kosovo. Now there's a flip-flop.

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Meanwhile, at stately Wayne Manor...

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an Em Dash of sugar
Xboxing Day


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quote:
Originally posted by Salamander:
Where's the guy with the "you can't legislate something that doesn't exist" quote regarding torture in his sig line? I'm not sure if he quotes it because he agrees with it or because he thinks it absurd, I'd be interested to know.

You mean the Stephen Colbert quote (I forget who has it, but I'm pretty sure that's what you're referring to)? That quote was ironic in the first place, don't worry. Colbert is a comedian who just got his own spinoff of the Daily Show.
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