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Fusca 1976
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Troberg:
How can you say that they deserve it?

Because Bill Clinton had oral sex with Monica Lewinsky. Isn't it obvious?

Luís "but... was Monica facing Mecca when she knelt?" Henrique

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First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Salamander:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
I really would rather not be Emperor, though.

And you have me wildly miscast.

Well, maybe... but Vir was a pretty cool character!

Particularly in a scene towards the end of Babylon 5 where the simple action of Vir glancing upwards to something off-camera, smiling and offering a small wave speaks volumes as to what has just taken place.

Hopefully Fo2 will recall the scene I'm talking about.

I do indeed.

Of course, the final irony in the scene I described is that Vir and Londo, both of whom "work for" the Centauri Emperor, (Heck, he just put Londo in charge of security!) have just started plotting the Emperor's assassination.

But no. In the "real" world, there are no internal governmental power struggles, rivalries, policy sabotage, or the like. Everyone in government works together peachy keenlike. The Kennedy administration and the CIA were totally on-board re: the Bay of Pigs operation, which explains that mission's resounding success.

Beachfront Omaha lots and New York landmarks at bargain prices! See Fo2 for details!

--------------------
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Why is everything so black and white with you, First?

No shit there are internal struggles. However, at the end of the day, one guy is in charge, and that one guy is responsible for what all his underlings do.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
Why is everything so black and white with you, First?

What? I'm the only one adding shades of grey to this conversation!

--------------------
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle

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Steve Eisenberg
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
Who do you think the CIA works for?

The best of them work so that they can look back on something they did that day to make the world a better place. In other words, they are self-directed. As for the rest, I would think that a political scientist like yourself would have learned enough about bureaucratic behavior to expect that organizations routinely fail to follow their leader's lead.

As far as mistreatment of prisoners, I think the problem is that the CIA has overly high expectations of what can be obtained via interrogation and, unlike the Army, rarely punishes abusive interrogators and guards. Besides that we shouldn't be even capturing these people any more for reasons outlined in the topic I just started here on withdrawal from Iraq.

As for Bush, I think he has some reasonable job skills but should spend more time reading newspapers and less listening to CIA briefings.

--------------------
"Hillel says yes, naturally, and Shammai says no, and Maimonides is perplexed, and what do I know?"
Julius Lester

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Ganzfeld
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eisenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
Who do you think the CIA works for?

The best of them work so that they can look back on something they did that day to make the world a better place. In other words, they are self-directed. As for the rest, I would think that a political scientist like yourself would have learned enough about bureaucratic behavior to expect that organizations routinely fail to follow their leader's lead.
This fact absolves leaders from their responsibility and accountability? No NFBSKing way, man.
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Open Mike Night
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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EU May Suspend Nations With Secret Prisons

quote:
The United States has told the European Union it needs more time to respond to media reports that the CIA set up secret jails in some European nations and transported terror suspects by covert flights, the top EU justice official said Monday.

Justice and Home Affairs Commissioner Franco Frattini also warned that that any of the 25 bloc nations found to have operated secret CIA prisons could have their EU voting rights suspended.


quote:
Frattini said suspending EU voting rights would be justified under the EU treaty, which stipulates that the bloc is founded on the principles of liberty, democracy, respect for human rights, fundamental freedoms and the rule of law, and that a persistent breach of these principles can be punished.




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PatYoung
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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It is good to see the EU showing some guts. Seems like some of the former dictatorships in eastern Europe have not yet fully transitioned to the rule of law.

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pat "Megadittoes Rush" young

THUMP, THUMP, THUMP

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Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Who is it that has not fully trasitioned to the rule of the law?

The country which the prison is located in or the country which uses the prison?

--------------------
/Troberg

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Fusca 1976
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Troberg:
Who is it that has not fully trasitioned to the rule of the law?

The country which the prison is located in or the country which uses the prison?

Tango...

Luís "Corrientes, tres, quatro, ocho..." Henrique

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Unbekanntes Pferd
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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I noticed that several people here support the Iraq war, but doesn't torturing and detaining (possibly innocent) civilians only helps to create more terrorists ?

All the bad PR that the U.S. is getting the last 2 years (lying about WMD, Abu Graib, using WP and now this) only helps to convince borderline terrorists to cross the line.

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PatYoung
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Troberg:
Who is it that has not fully trasitioned to the rule of the law?

The country which the prison is located in or the country which uses the prison?

I was referring to the countries of Eastern Europe.

The U.S. is a country transitioning away from the rule of law.

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pat "Megadittoes Rush" young

THUMP, THUMP, THUMP

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smartymarty66
I Saw Three Shipments


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Very interesting discussion. The thing that concerns me, is that when the Governement takes a very narrow definition of torture- that which casues organ failure or death, then they can with clear concience state that they do not torture. They also get lousy information form someone who will tell them anything to get them to stop.
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Open Mike Night
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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Swiss Lawmaker Cites CIA Prison Evidence

quote:
A Swiss investigator probing claims of secret
CIA prisons in Europe said his committee has evidence that supports allegations that prisoners were transferred between countries and temporarily held "without any judicial involvement."

"Legal proceedings in progress in certain countries seemed to indicate that individuals had been abducted and transferred to other countries without respect for any legal standards," lawmaker Dick Marty said in a written report summarizing his investigations so far.



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hoitoider
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Clinton started CIA ploy

THE CIA's controversial "rendition" program to have terror suspects captured and questioned on foreign soil, was launched under US president Bill Clinton, a former US counter-terrorism agent has told a German newspaper.

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No man has a right in America to treat any other man "tolerantly" for tolerance is the assumption of superiority. -Wendell L. Willkie

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Senior
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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So Clinton started the whole thing. Well, then it's okay for the Bush administration to continue rendition, because we all know that Clinton would never have done anything that wasn't 100% above board and legal.  -

--------------------
Ad astra per asparagus.

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Seraphina
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by PatYoung:
It is good to see the EU showing some guts. Seems like some of the former dictatorships in eastern Europe have not yet fully transitioned to the rule of law.

Well, the former "eastern block" countries are so desperate for USA investments and help they will do anything Bush asks for. If the USA wants to use some of their old prisons I imagine they just hand the place over and do not ask any questions.
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First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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LOL, Status: FALSE.

quote:
Investigations into reports that U.S. agents shipped prisoners through European airports to secret detention centers have produced no evidence of illegal CIA activities, the European Union's anti-terror coordinator said yesterday.

Nor have the investigations turned up any proof of secret renditions of terror suspects on EU territory, Gijs de Vries told a European Parliament committee investigating the allegations.



--------------------
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle

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Pogue Ma-humbug
Happy Christmas (Malls are Open)


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quote:
Originally posted by First of Two:
LOL, Status: FALSE.

Well, of course, if you ignore the evidence:
quote:
De Vries came under sharp criticism from the EU parliamentarians for refusing to consider earlier testimonies from a German and a Canadian who described to the committee how they were kidnapped and imprisoned by foreign agents, and from a former British ambassador to Uzbekistan who alleged that British intelligence services used information obtained under torture.

Pogue

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Let's drink to the causes in your life:
Your family, your friends, the union, your wife.

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First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Pogue Mahone:
quote:
Originally posted by First of Two:
LOL, Status: FALSE.

Well, of course, if you ignore the evidence:
quote:
De Vries came under sharp criticism from the EU parliamentarians for refusing to consider earlier testimonies from a German and a Canadian who described to the committee how they were kidnapped and imprisoned by foreign agents, and from a former British ambassador to Uzbekistan who alleged that British intelligence services used information obtained under torture.

Pogue

In a related story, the investigators of project Blue Book concluded that Earth was not being visited by extraterrestrials despite hours of testimony from believers in aliens and people who claimed to have been abducted by aliens. Moonbats strongly criticized the investigation for "ignoring the evidence."

--------------------
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle

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jimmy101
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by First of Two:
quote:
Originally posted by Pogue Mahone:
quote:
Originally posted by First of Two:
LOL, Status: FALSE.

Well, of course, if you ignore the evidence:
quote:
De Vries came under sharp criticism from the EU parliamentarians for refusing to consider earlier testimonies from a German and a Canadian who described to the committee how they were kidnapped and imprisoned by foreign agents, and from a former British ambassador to Uzbekistan who alleged that British intelligence services used information obtained under torture.

Pogue

In a related story, the investigators of project Blue Book concluded that Earth was not being visited by extraterrestrials despite hours of testimony from believers in aliens and people who claimed to have been abducted by aliens. Moonbats strongly criticized the investigation for "ignoring the evidence."
In a related story, the CIA has all but admitted that the original allegations are true and have fired the CIA employee accused of leaking the classified information.

Since the leak was (1) from someone other than the POTUS, or his staff, and (2) factually correct, chargers will almost certainly be filed.

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First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by jimmy101:
In a related story, the CIA has all but admitted that the original allegations are true and have fired the CIA employee accused of leaking the classified information.



Actually, since you don't know what information was leaked, you have no real basis for this claim. Most likely she leaked the existence of the allegations, not any substantiating evidence, since if there was any, that's what would have been printed instead of the allegations.

quote:

Since the leak was (1) from someone other than the POTUS, or his staff, and (2) factually correct

Well, you got the first half right (assuming that hasn't all been part of a larger leak-hunt.) There are no facts that support the latter half of your claim, however, which is the point.

--------------------
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle

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jimmy101
The First USA Noel


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first-of-two: "She leaked the existence of the allegations."

What? So you think the agent went to the reporter and said "hey listen, their is an allegation within the CIA that the CIA has secret prisons"?

Doesn't sound very likely.

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First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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Actually,. I think she told the reporter exactly what she was supposed to.

NYT Article

quote:
Intelligence officials speaking on the condition of anonymity said that the dismissal resulted from "a pattern of conduct" and not from a single leak.
Not surprising, given some of her associations. Chum of Sandy "Shoes" Berger, it would seem.

SOP: Give a suspected leak bad information. If the information is released, you have confirmed the source of the leak. Now we have to wait and see who else she turns over.

--------------------
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle

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evilbeard
We Three Blings


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NYT Article
quote:
Fired C.I.A. Officer Denies Role in Leak

Ty Cobb, a Washington lawyer recently retained by the official, Mary O. McCarthy, who was fired last Thursday and escorted out of agency headquarters, said his client had never been granted access to the information she was accused of leaking, referring to material used in Pulitzer Prize-winning articles in The Washington Post about C.I.A. prisons.

"She categorically denies leaking classified information," Mr. Cobb said by telephone on Monday. "She denies having access to the information attributed to her."

Mr. Cobb, whose comments about Ms. McCarthy's denials were first reported on the Newsweek Web site, said his client had also told him that she never admitted leaking any classified information before she was terminated. She believes she was fired solely because she failed to report contacts with journalists to her superiors, he said.

quote:
Administration officials and Congressional Republicans have called for prosecution of government officials who knowingly leak classified information, in part to deter future leaks. But former intelligence officials and legal experts said Monday that prosecuting Ms. McCarthy for disclosing classified information might not be easy.

Polygraph evidence would not be admissible in court, and any confession that followed a polygraph might also be excluded, they said. In the likely event that journalists refused to testify about confidential sources, it might be difficult to prove that Ms. McCarthy was the source of a particular classified fact.

In addition, Department of Justice officials, who would have to make a decision about whether to pursue a criminal case, might consider the impact on the agency of months of inquiries and possible testimony.

"A criminal trial would be devastating for Langley," said one former C.I.A. officer, referring to the agency's Virginia headquarters. He spoke about a possible prosecution on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the case.

Mr. Cobb said that despite news accounts indicating that the agency might proceed with a prosecution against Ms. McCarthy, the government would not be able to mount a solid case. "There is no legitimate reason to proceed with prosecution here," he said.

The case has increasingly taken on distinct partisan coloring. Ms. McCarthy gave $2,000 to Senator John Kerry's 2004 presidential campaign, and conservative commentators suggested that Ms. McCarthy had deliberately tried to sabotage President Bush's policies by leaking to the news media.

In his Monday broadcast, Rush Limbaugh, the radio personality, called Ms. McCarthy a "Clinton person" and part of a "shadow government in opposition," suggesting that she was one of a number of C.I.A. officers who had worked against the White House. "When we've said that the C.I.A. was at war with the White House, we were more right than we knew," Mr. Limbaugh said.

Newsweek Article
quote:
Fired CIA officer denies leak of classified data

Fired CIA officer Mary McCarthy has “categorically” denied to NBC News through her lawyer that she leaked classified information. In addition, McCarthy's attorney tells NBC News that she did not have access to the information she is accused of leaking. The CIA has said that the officer — whom the agency wouldn't identify — had “confessed” to leaking.

A defense source tells NBC News that while McCarthy may have failed her polygraph on the issue of having unauthorized contacts with reporters, she did not fail the question about leaking information on the secret prison system.

CIA officials said that having unauthorized contacts with reporters is sufficient as a firing offense, although friends of McCarthy say no one has ever been fired for that before.

quote:
A counter-terrorism official acknowledged to NEWSWEEK today that in firing McCarthy, the CIA was not necessarily accusing her of being the principal, original, or sole leaker of any particular story. Intelligence officials privately acknowledge that key news stories about secret agency prison and “rendition” operations have been based, at least in part, upon information available from unclassified sources.

British freelance journalist Stephen Grey, who published the first detailed revelations of the CIA’s secret airline system for transporting terrorist detainees in the London Sunday Times in late 2004, affirmed to NEWSWEEK over the weekend that “almost all” of the information that he assembled regarding the CIA operations came from “unclassified sources.” Several news organizations, including NEWSWEEK and The New York Times, reported stories about the CIA’s secret transport and detention operations based on airplane flight plan information which originally was assembled by Grey. Other foreign journalists put together early reports about CIA “rendition” operations—in which terror suspects allegedly were transferred by undercover CIA teams to a foreign countries where they were wanted for questioning—by using public record data bases to trace the ownership and history of suspicious private airplanes that were observed at foreign airstrips around the times that local terror suspects allegedly disappeared. Administration critics have described these renditions as the outsourcing of torture.

While acknowledging that information about the CIA operations was indeed available from unclassified sources, intelligence officials maintain that revelations like those made in the Post story about Eastern Europe could not have been put together without input from people who had access to classified information. These informants could confirm the stories and add detail to them. But the fact that McCarthy evidently is denying leaking the CIA prison story to the Post—and that other key information for stories revealing CIA detention and rendition operations originated with unclassified sources—does raise questions about how far the Bush administration will be able to press its crackdown on suspected leakers.

Two official sources familiar with the inquiry which led to McCarthy’s firing cautioned that news reports indicating that McCarthy was aggressively being pursued by the Justice Department for possible criminal violations were ahead of the facts.

ETA another point of interest:

from the Washington Post: Dismissed CIA Officer Denies Leak Role
quote:
Nowhere in the CIA statement last week was McCarthy accused of leaking information on the prisons, although some news accounts suggested that the CIA had made that claim.

Though McCarthy acknowledged having contact with reporters, a senior intelligence official confirmed yesterday that she is not believed to have played a central role in The Post's reporting on the secret prisons. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity, citing personnel matters.

McCarthy, 61, who earlier held senior posts at the White House and the National Intelligence Council (NIC), has declined requests for comment. But Cobb said she was "devastated" that her government career of more than two decades will "forever be linked with misinformation about the reasons for her termination," and he said that her firing 10 days before she was to retire was "certainly not for the reasons attributed to the agency." His comments constituted the first statement from her camp since her firing became public last week.

quote:
In addition, federal espionage laws do not outlaw all disclosures of classified information, at least not specifically. Instead, a collection of separate statutes prohibits unauthorized disclosures of certain categories of information -- such as intercepted communications or codes -- and violations often hinge on important details that are still unclear in the CIA prisons case.

Thomas S. Blanton, director of the National Security Archive, a nongovernmental research institute at George Washington University, said he does not think the Post article includes the kind of operational details that a prosecutor would need to build a case.

"It's the fact of the thing that they're trying to keep secret, not to protect sources and methods, but to hide something controversial," he said. "That seems like a hard prosecution to me."

Kate Martin, executive director of the Center for National Security Studies, said that "even if the espionage statutes were read to apply to leaks of information, we would say the First Amendment prohibits criminalizing leaks of information which reveal wrongful or illegal activities by the government."

ETA again From the Boston Post, extended info on de Vries and his quote:

Boston Globe Article
quote:
But so far investigators have not identified any human rights violations, despite more than 50 hours of testimony by human rights activists and individuals who said they were abducted by US intelligence agents, de Vries said.

''We've heard all kinds of allegations, impressions; we've heard also refutations. It's up to your committee to weigh if they are true. It does not appear to be proven beyond reasonable doubt," he said. ''There has not been, to my knowledge, evidence that these illegal renditions have taken place."

De Vries was invited to appear before the investigating committee yesterday and made his comments in response to members' questions. It was his first update since the investigation began in January.

De Vries came under sharp criticism from the EU parliamentarians for refusing to consider earlier testimonies from a German and a Canadian who described to the committee how they were kidnapped and imprisoned by foreign agents, and from a former British ambassador to Uzbekistan who alleged that British intelligence services used information obtained under torture.

''There is so much circumstantial evidence, you can't close your eyes from the fact that this is probably happening," Dutch deputy and civil liberties activist Kathalijne Buitenweg said.

The US has never confirmed or denied the renditions. The committee plans to go to Washington to interview former and current CIA officials and Bush administration officials.

The parliament committee is seeking firsthand testimony from people who say they were kidnapped by US intelligence agents and from human rights activists and EU antiterrorism officials to get a better picture of the reported US ''extraordinary rendition" flights.

seems to me that they've neither established the truth as one side nor the other.

--------------------
rex linum occisor et erronis

But Jimmy has fancy plans... and pants to match. The monkey clown horrible karate round and yummy like cute small baby chick would beat the donkey."

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Pogue Ma-humbug
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quote:
Originally posted by First of Two:
LOL, Status: FALSE.

Lol, Status: TRUE! See, this is what happens when you actually review the evidence.

Pogue

--------------------
Let's drink to the causes in your life:
Your family, your friends, the union, your wife.

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First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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I was unaware of any official investigative body known as "EU lawmakers."

Probably because there isn't.

Over here, we'd call that "a random bunch of Congressional malcontents." Like when the Dems meet in a basement somewhere to "decide" things.

I like the photo caption of the only named speaker...
quote:
Giovanni Claudio Fava is pictured during the presentation of an interim report at a temporary committee probing allegations...
Heh. In interim temporary probe. IOW, more ephemeral than Iraq's government. The Starr Report it ain't.

The only official body named in the report is still without a stated conclusion.

Once again, accusations are mistaken for evidence.

Another case of media bias... towards laziness and sensationalism.

--------------------
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle

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Pogue Ma-humbug
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Nice spin there First. Another one of your masterpieces.

Pogue

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Let's drink to the causes in your life:
Your family, your friends, the union, your wife.

Posts: 11325 | From: Kentucky | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Pogue Ma-humbug
Happy Christmas (Malls are Open)


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quote:
Originally posted by First of Two:
Once again, accusations are mistaken for evidence.

Another case of media bias... towards laziness and sensationalism.

You must have missed the evidence cited then. Yeah, I know actually reading the link is beyond your grasp, so hows about I just copy it here for you:

quote:
The lawmakers said they had documented a series of incidents in which terror suspects were kidnapped by the CIA in Europe, or handed over to the agency by European officials in violation of human rights treaties.
Note it says they have documented the incidents. That goes beyond mere allegations and into the realm of evidence. I know, I know, still difficult for you to grasp, but at least try to have an open mind on this issue, would you?

Here's some more evidence:

quote:
Documents provided by Eurocontrol showed Khalid al-Masri, the German, was transferred to Afghanistan in 2004 by a plane that originated in Algeria and flew via Palma de Mallorca, Spain, Skopje, Macedonia, and Baghdad, Iraq before landing in Kabul, Afghanistan.

Al-Masri, who was born in Kuwait, had told the European Parliament committee earlier this year he was arrested by U.S. intelligence agents on the Macedonian border while on vacation, taken to a hotel in Skopje, and imprisoned there for several weeks before being flown to Kabul and imprisoned for five months and tortured. He said he was flown back to Europe in May 2004 and released in Albania.

So we have a guy who provided information, and that information was then backed up by physical evidence.

Yeah, it's just another example of media laziness and sensationalism. [Roll Eyes] Is that the spin you're sticking with?

Pogue

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Let's drink to the causes in your life:
Your family, your friends, the union, your wife.

Posts: 11325 | From: Kentucky | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
First of Two
The Bills of St. Mary's


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Your star witness is perhaps not as impressive as you hoped.

quote:
The parliamentarians wanted to know why el Masri was so sure that he was actually held in Afghanistan by the CIA. They also asked him why he had traveled to Macedonia when the rendition started. The answers el Masri gave were not very convincing for everybody.

"I've never been to a hearing in which the words 'I don't know,' 'I assume,' and 'maybe' were used so frequently," said Elmar Brok, a German EU parliamentarian and member of the European People's Party. "No clear evidence was produced."

Although:
quote:
Brok added he is convinced that the German authorities are telling the truth.

"Obviously, the Americans conducted the abduction," he said. "Nobody is contesting that, but there is no evidence that the authorities of a member state of the European parliament participated or covered it up."

Bit o' [Roll Eyes] there; obviously. "There's no evidence, but I believe it anyway."

It's like bad religion to some folks.

Macedonia: It's not so.

quote:
"There are no indications that foreign intelligence officers, i.e. CIA, were involved in this case", said Mihajlovski after the meting with the European Parliament's delegation, which arrived yesterday in Macedonia to investigate the case.

quote:
According to El-Masri, he was detained in a Skopje's hotel for a couple of weeks, before they transferred him in Kabul, where they kept him for five months. In May 2004 he was ferried back to Europe to be finally released in Albania.

On the other hand, Mihajlovski said that El-Masri left Macedonia at the Kosovo's border crossing "Blace" after spending three weeks in the Skopje's hotel "Skopski Merak".

"It is mere speculation that El-Masri left Macedonia by plane", Mihajlovski said today.

Oh and for those who are easily distracted by shiny objects like the ones Pogue has been dangling, this thread is about secret CIA prisons, any evidence of which is still absent, and not secret CIA airplanes.

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"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide." - Jerry Pournelle

Posts: 14567 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
evilbeard
We Three Blings


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I guess now it's status: confirmed by Bush

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rex linum occisor et erronis

But Jimmy has fancy plans... and pants to match. The monkey clown horrible karate round and yummy like cute small baby chick would beat the donkey."

Posts: 1022 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Bug Muldoon
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
President Bush has acknowledged the existence of secret CIA prisons and said 14 key terrorist suspects have now been sent to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
Let that sink in: the Bush administration is using secret, unmonitored prisons where unspecified methods are used to extract information from individuals they deem "suspects".

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All along the untrodden paths of the future, I can see the footprints of an unseen hand.

Posts: 6912 | From: Flanders | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Friends of Alfred
The First USA Noel


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quote:
Originally posted by Bug Muldoon:
quote:
President Bush has acknowledged the existence of secret CIA prisons and said 14 key terrorist suspects have now been sent to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
Let that sink in: the Bush administration is using secret, unmonitored prisons where unspecified methods are used to extract information from individuals they deem "suspects".
Is anybody really surprised?

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There's no reason to become alarmed, and we hope you'll enjoy the rest of your flight. By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?

Posts: 735 | From: Manchester, UK | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Zachary Fizz
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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Friends of Alfred! Welcome back!
Posts: 2370 | From: Arabia | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Friends of Alfred
The First USA Noel


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Thanks Zachary Fizz - it's been a while.

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There's no reason to become alarmed, and we hope you'll enjoy the rest of your flight. By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?

Posts: 735 | From: Manchester, UK | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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