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snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Well, I can't remember when my parent's anniversary was, and I'm rather loathe to ask because...well, eh, no. Messy divorce and awkwardnesscakes. But if they were married in spring (and I sort of think they were) and if I was born the same year...hmm. My mom's waist was awfully tiny in her wedding photos, and I don't know if I wasn't actually born the next year, so, I don't know. Though they were in college when they got married and I can't think of any good reason to get married while in college. My mom quit and we lived with his parents while dad finished. Doesn't sound like the sort of thing one would sign up for unless there was a compelling reason, though some do.

But I know at least one of my dad's cousins got married really young - 15, I think - cause they had to.

I think there's a lot of truth to this, that non marital sex was common and so were pregnancies and folks just got married.

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"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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annabohly
Jingle Bell Hock


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My wedding date 06/30/90, 1st child born 02/07/91, you do the math!!

eta-DS #1 already has done the math [Razz]

--------------------
And always remember....when life hands you Lemons, ask for tequila and salt and call me over !!!!!

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Every new generation seems to think they invented sex and every older generations lets them think that.

[lol] So true Sara. Along the same lines as kids not wanting to believe their parents ever have or had sex - before, during or after marriage.

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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Aimee Evilpixie
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Christie:
quote:
Every new generation seems to think they invented sex and every older generations lets them think that.

[lol] So true Sara. Along the same lines as kids not wanting to believe their parents ever have or had sex - before, during or after marriage.
Of course they didn't. Me and my siblings are all the Second Coming of Christ. That's right, all of us. If we ever stop arguing and all band together, we'll get started on that whole Rapture thing.

Aimee "I wouldn't hold your breath, though" Evilpixie

--------------------
Ugg want you find JESUS!

My website!

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Aimee Evilpixie:
quote:
Originally posted by Christie:
quote:
Every new generation seems to think they invented sex and every older generations lets them think that.

[lol] So true Sara. Along the same lines as kids not wanting to believe their parents ever have or had sex - before, during or after marriage.
Of course they didn't. Me and my siblings are all the Second Coming of Christ. That's right, all of us. If we ever stop arguing and all band together, we'll get started on that whole Rapture thing.

Aimee "I wouldn't hold your breath, though" Evilpixie

One of my younger sister's learned where babies come from (or more accurately how they get into mommy's "tummy") by looking through a medical text book at a friend's house. She and my youngest brother confronted my mother with this information demanding to know if it was true. My mother confirmed it. My sister then turned to my brother and said:

"Oh my god Anthony they did it SIX TIMES!!"

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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Crackrzz
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Hmm. My grandparents supposedly never did anything, didn't even kiss for six months into their relationship. This was in the 40s. When Poppy was away in the Air Force, they would see other people, but we were told it was all pristine... Nana even really liked Poppy's last girlfriend before her, and thought she was beautiful.

In fact, Nana was seeing someone when Poppy came back one time from the Air Force... and he said, "Well, only one solution to this!" Nana thought for sure he would split up with her. But instead he said, "We're getting married!" Nana knew years before that she would marry him when they were just teens.

Nana didn't get pregnant for a year and 3 mos after they got married, so there's no way to know for sure whether it was as innocent as they claim.

Mom... well she was as young as I was (13) when she lost her virginity, but she did eventually marry him when she was 19. They used "french safes" before they married, but they didn't have any kids together that time. That was the 60s.

She suffered a possible miscarriage so the doc put her on the pill, which she said screwed things up for a while. She claims he's my father, when she was with him one night after fighting with the man who she said was my father for 22 years. Before that, she had claimed she left the diaphragm out one night with that second guy. Indeed... had to be more than that! That was 1978-1979.

She was married when she had my big brother... but they had seperated and she was bringing him stuff to his apartment when they slept together. They ended up getting back together, and she didn't find out till she was like 4 mos along that she was pregnant, because the doctor previously told her that the pill possibly made her infertile (hence her fear of me being on hormonal birth control now). Then she had him early. She claims they may have done it once since my big brother was born. That was 1971-1972.

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Stand up, slip on the bathtub floor, fling a hand up to balance yourself, and happen to have your mouth open on the downswing. Voila, a new hole in your face.

-Tabby, on how she cut her lip while shaving her legs.

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Steve Eisenberg
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
Note that she's objecting, not to the methodology, but to the results.



Allow me to object to both. The journal article linked from the OP article says nothing about the percentage of people who agreed to be surveyed, or the percentage who specifically refused to answer overly personal questions.

A fair assumption is that people who don't like to talk about sex are somewhat less likely to engage in it. By not telling up how many were in this group -- and I don't see how the data could be hard to come by -- the authors open themselves up to the idea that they are exaggerating. As I think they are.

--------------------
"Hillel says yes, naturally, and Shammai says no, and Maimonides is perplexed, and what do I know?"
Julius Lester

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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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The OP study took data from other studies and analyzed it. This is from the NSFG 2002 (one of the studies used by the OP study):

quote:
Methods
Data
The NSFG has been conducted six times by NCHS: in 1973 and 1976 with
samples of married and formerly married women; in 1982, 1988, and
1995, with samples of women of all marital status categories; and in 2002,
with national samples of both women and men 15–44 years of age (36). Each
time, the interviews have been conducted in person by trained female
interviewers in the selected persons’ homes. The sample is a nationally
representative multistage area probability sample drawn from 121
areas across the United States. Large areas (counties and cities) were chosen
first; within each large area or ‘‘Primary Sampling Unit,’’ groups of adjacent
blocks—called segments—were chosen at random. Within segments, addresses
were listed and some addresses were selected at random. The selected
addresses were visited in person, and a short ‘‘screener’’ interview was
conducted to see if anyone 15–44 years of age lived there. If so, one person was
chosen at random for the interview and offered a chance to participate. To
was protect the respondent’s privacy, only one person was interviewed in each
selected household. In 2002, teenagers and black and Hispanic adults were
sampled at higher rates than others. All respondents were given written
and oral information about the survey and were informed that participation
was voluntary.

snip

The response rate for the survey was 79 percent overall—80 percent for
women, 78 percent for men, and 81 percent for teenagers.



--------------------
I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eisenberg:
A fair assumption is that people who don't like to talk about sex are somewhat less likely to engage in it.

I'd be more inclined to say that those who talk a lot about sex aren't, to be crude here, getting any.

--------------------
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eisenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
Note that she's objecting, not to the methodology, but to the results.



Allow me to object to both. The journal article linked from the OP article says nothing about the percentage of people who agreed to be surveyed, or the percentage who specifically refused to answer overly personal questions.


Didn't you read the study? Its methods are right there, bottom of the second column, page 2.

quote:
A fair assumption is that people who don't like to talk about sex are somewhat less likely to engage in it. By not telling up how many were in this group -- and I don't see how the data could be hard to come by -- the authors open themselves up to the idea that they are exaggerating. As I think they are.
And now? Do you still believe they are "exaggerating?" You've misinterpreted studies before, Steve. Perhaps before you're so quick to take a position on them, you take the time to understand them.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Steve
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Christie:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eisenberg:
A fair assumption is that people who don't like to talk about sex are somewhat less likely to engage in it.

I'd be more inclined to say that those who talk a lot about sex aren't, to be crude here, getting any.
I don't know if that's true, but it amounts to the same thing anyway. Without knowing anything about who refused to be surveyed, it's difficult to tell what to make of the results.
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Zachary Fizz
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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I vaguely recall Bill Bryson making the claim that in colonial times, it was considered normal and polite for one or more eligible females of the household to spend the night with any visiting unmarried males. It was also accepted that any pregnancy would necessitate marriage.
IIRC the book in which he made this intriguing claim was A Walk in the Woods.

I must say this charming local custom sounds very entertaining. Do modern American conservatives regret its passing?

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Ms. Kringle
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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Damn! The topic was moved before I finished my post! Oh well, I'll just write it again.

I have never asked Mom if she and Daddy had sex before they were married. All I know is that they were married in 1969, and I was born in 1975, and there were no miscarriages in between their wedding date and my birth. So, no matter what Granny says, Mom and Daddy didn't "have" to get married.

Granny says she was a virgin when she married Granddad, and that her mother thought she might not be, since she was 25 when she and Granddad got married, and that was "old" in those days. All I know is that it was about three years after they were married that my uncle was born, so they didn't "have" to get married, by all acounts, either.

Me? I'm the "bad girl". I had no problem having sex before I was married either time. In fact, I was pregnant before I was married both times, it's not that hard to figure out if you look at the date I was married the first time, and my daughter's birth date. The second time around, I miscarried before the wedding.

The only thing I have preached to my daughter concerning having sex before she's married? Be as protected as possible from unwanted pregnancy and STDs. In fact, I need to make sure that I call and make an appointment for her to get the HPV vaccine this coming year. We talked about that, and how it was a good idea for her to get the vaccine, just because she would be protected didn't mean that her potential partner wouldn't have HPV, and the vaccine would offer a better layer of protection for her than just a condom.

Granted, she still squirms a bit when we discuss the topic, but she's only 12, and just starting to really get interested in boys.

--------------------
Beware corporate zombies! They will purchase your brain on E-Bay!

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Mosherette
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by Mistletoey Chloe:
My grandmother once declared proudly, "No one in our family ever *had* to get married." When I mentioned this to my aunt, she laughed out loud, pointed out their wedding date and her birthday, and invited me to do the math.

My mother steadfastly maintains that her parents were fine, upstanding, moral Christians and that her older sister was a suspiciously large and well-developed two months premature baby. Her parents married in April 1939 and my aunt was born in November 1939. Yes mum *nods*

I've been doing some family tree research recently and I seem to be descended from a veritable plethora of suspiciously large and well-developed premature babies...

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Silence should never under any circumstances be construed as agreement. A lot of the time, it's simply a reflection that someone just said something so stupid that no response could possibly do it justice. - Ramblin' Dave

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AdmiralDinty
Markdown, the Herald Angels Sing


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Well, it appears that my wife and I are more pure and have more self-control than 90% of you animals.
[lol]
As for the rest of my family: my parents claim they waited, and there is no evidence to contradict them. One grandmother had a child out of wedlock after her coupling with a South Boston Gangster (who was later murdered.) My other grandparents waited as far as I know.

--------------------
"I wanna bite the hand that feeds me. I wanna bite that hand so badly. I wanna make them wish they'd never seen me." - Elvis Costello

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eisenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
Note that she's objecting, not to the methodology, but to the results.



Allow me to object to both. The journal article linked from the OP article says nothing about the percentage of people who agreed to be surveyed, or the percentage who specifically refused to answer overly personal questions.

A fair assumption is that people who don't like to talk about sex are somewhat less likely to engage in it. By not telling up how many were in this group -- and I don't see how the data could be hard to come by -- the authors open themselves up to the idea that they are exaggerating. As I think they are.

Even if your assumption is right, it doesn't change my point. The CWA said nothing about the methods of the study: it specifically objected to the results. If the CWA has valid objections to the methodology of the study, it is certainly free to present them. By not doing so, it opens itself up to the idea that they are trying to cherry-pick reality. As I think they are.

--------------------
How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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Steve Eisenberg
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
Originally posted by Rhiandmoi:
The OP study took data from other studies and analyzed it. This is from the NSFG 2002 (one of the studies used by the OP study):

quote:
. . .
The response rate for the survey was 79 percent overall—80 percent for
women, 78 percent for men, and 81 percent for teenagers.


My point was that they didn't put that in their journal article, even though it is fairly standard scientific practice to do so. They also didn't put in what percentage of the survey participants declined to answer the personal questions about sex, and whether that changed over time. So much for peer review.

--------------------
"Hillel says yes, naturally, and Shammai says no, and Maimonides is perplexed, and what do I know?"
Julius Lester

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queen of the bah-caramels
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
quote:
Originally posted by Mistletoey Chloe:
My grandmother once declared proudly, "No one in our family ever *had* to get married." When I mentioned this to my aunt, she laughed out loud, pointed out their wedding date and her birthday, and invited me to do the math.

My mother steadfastly maintains that her parents were fine, upstanding, moral Christians and that her older sister was a suspiciously large and well-developed two months premature baby. Her parents married in April 1939 and my aunt was born in November 1939. Yes mum *nods*

I've been doing some family tree research recently and I seem to be descended from a veritable plethora of suspiciously large and well-developed premature babies...

My grandmothers proudest boast was of her 8 siblings and GF's 11 siblings, they were the only ones who didn't consumate the marrige early [Eek!]

--------------------
Focus On The Family- An opinion group who think more about Gay Sex than gay people do- Rick Mercer

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eisenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by Rhiandmoi:
The OP study took data from other studies and analyzed it. This is from the NSFG 2002 (one of the studies used by the OP study):

quote:
. . .
The response rate for the survey was 79 percent overall—80 percent for
women, 78 percent for men, and 81 percent for teenagers.


My point was that they didn't put that in their journal article, even though it is fairly standard scientific practice to do so. They also didn't put in what percentage of the survey participants declined to answer the personal questions about sex, and whether that changed over time. So much for peer review.
The author of the study in the OP did not conduct the surveys. They compiled data from other surveys.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Jason Threadslayer
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by Zachary Fizz:
I vaguely recall Bill Bryson making the claim that in colonial times, it was considered normal and polite for one or more eligible females of the household to spend the night with any visiting unmarried males. It was also accepted that any pregnancy would necessitate marriage.

You're thinking of bundling (the second entry).


quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
My mother steadfastly maintains that her parents were fine, upstanding, moral Christians and that her older sister was a suspiciously large and well-developed two months premature baby.

My aunt claims the same -- I don't believe her.

quote:
Originally posted by Mosherette:
I've been doing some family tree research recently and I seem to be descended from a veritable plethora of suspiciously large and well-developed premature babies...

In my research, I've noticed a plethora of first cousin marriages among Quakers. I ought to go back and check weddings vs birthdates...

--------------------
All posts foretold by Nostradamus.

Turing test failures: 6

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Steve Eisenberg
The "Was on Sale" Song


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quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
The author of the study in the OP did not conduct the surveys. They compiled data from other surveys.

Correct.

Let's go back to that conservative-friendly book on who gives to charity. That was also based on analysis of preexisting survey data. Should we generally lower our standards when s study is based on reanalyses, or is there some further test to be applied in determining who gets a pass?

--------------------
"Hillel says yes, naturally, and Shammai says no, and Maimonides is perplexed, and what do I know?"
Julius Lester

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eisenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr:
The author of the study in the OP did not conduct the surveys. They compiled data from other surveys.

Correct.

Let's go back to that conservative-friendly book on who gives to charity. That was also based on analysis of preexisting survey data. Should we generally lower our standards when s study is based on reanalyses, or is there some further test to be applied in determining who gets a pass?

I am saying you are making demands of the wrong person for the information.

Such compilations and analysis of data collected by others takes place all of the time. The person who compiled evidence from various surveys should not be required to report to you the methodology of the surveys; if you want to know that, then you need to go back to the original surveys.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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