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Author Topic: Premarital Chastity Rates Remain Steady
AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Americans weren't any more chaste in the past, researchers report

quote:
More than nine out of 10 Americans, men and women alike, have had premarital sex, according to a new study. The high rates extend even to women born in the 1940s, challenging perceptions that people were more chaste in the past.



--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I thought this quote was interesting:

quote:
However, Janice Crouse of Concerned Women for America, a conservative group which strongly supports abstinence-only education, said she was skeptical of the findings.

“Any time I see numbers that high, I’m a little suspicious,” she said. “The numbers are too pat.”

Note that she's objecting, not to the methodology, but to the results. The study must be wrong, not because it wasn't conducted properly, but because it yielded answers that didn't fit her agenda.

Here's another quote, from a CWA press release:

quote:
“The Harvard report is wrong. I know numerous couples who have saved sex for their wedding night. Research is clear –– that it is the best recipe for marital happiness and well-being. Abstinence-until-marriage is a beautiful promise that should be encouraged and promoted.”


--------------------
How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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The CWA are great comic relief!

"Research is clear, your parents where slutting it up while Leave it to Beaver (heh-heh!) was playing in the background."

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

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hoitoider
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Glad that finally came out - it's one UL I always call people on. The sexual revolution was all about sex being mass marketed in advertising, depicted more explicitly in entertainment & being discussed more freely out in the open. I never thought it had anything to do with people actually having more sex with more partners.

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No man has a right in America to treat any other man "tolerantly" for tolerance is the assumption of superiority. -Wendell L. Willkie

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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CWA Outraged by Failure of Reality to Conform to Preconceived Notions

quote:
Wow, that's some rock-solid data you've got. How could a multi-year Harvard study compare to your vast knowledge of people you know?


--------------------
How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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zerocool
Deck the Malls


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premarital is a poor term, unless they really mean pre-marital. I mean, if I never plan on getting married, then I'm never having premarital sex right? sex-out-of-wedlock would be more general.
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GenYus
Away in a Manager's Special


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One thing I like to see addressed in this study or follow up studies:

How many premarital partners did people back in the 40's and 50's have compared to later years?

and

What percentage of people who had premarital sex later married the one they had premarital sex with?

To me, chastity isn't an on/off condition. Having premarital sex with one person when you are engaged and later marry that person is different from having several premarital partners and not marrying any of them.

I don't care if people have premarital sex or not, but it seems the on/off nature of this study could be used by people who are uncertain of the correctness of their decision to say, "See, Mrs Grundy was spreading like cream cheese, so it is okay for me to." Have premarital sex or save it, but do it for your own reasons, not because people in the 40's did.

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IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan

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snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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A study on this that only goes back as far as mid century doesn't seem to cover a broad enough time span to be of any signficance.

I would expect kids (older teens and early twenties) to have started being more sexually active before marriage around the 20's, just from what I know of the history of popular culture. I hear my grandmother was quite the flapper in her day...I don't want to really think about that one TOO much.

More relevant to me personally would be a study going back much further but since all the people would be dead, I guess that's really not possible. Heh.

~I would think, though, that the advent of legal birth control in the 60's, wasn't it, would have increased the willingness of a good portion of women to be sexually active that might not otherwise, or might be much less frequently. I know it would in my case.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Major D. Saster
The First USA Noel


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Mmmm... I'd say the real problem is not pre-marital sex, but post-marital sex... [Big Grin]

Joke aside, whoever shows a little interest for the matter will find out that the previous generations (even the Victorians) were not as "serious" as we imagine them. Sex was just something one wouldn't *talk* about, that's all.

--------------------
Desperate, but not serious.

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Doug4.7
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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My Mom describes the situation back in the 50's (when she was in college). They didn't sound much different from my experiences (other than going to class pregnant was not as accepted back then). Her experience was that when a girl got pregnant, she dropped out of school.

--------------------
And now for something completely different...

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glass papaya
Jingle Bell Hock


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
I thought this quote was interesting:

quote:
However, Janice Crouse of Concerned Women for America, a conservative group which strongly supports abstinence-only education, said she was skeptical of the findings.

“Any time I see numbers that high, I’m a little suspicious,” she said. “The numbers are too pat.”

Note that she's objecting, not to the methodology, but to the results. The study must be wrong, not because it wasn't conducted properly, but because it yielded answers that didn't fit her agenda.

Here's another quote, from a CWA press release:

quote:
“The Harvard report is wrong. I know numerous couples who have saved sex for their wedding night. Research is clear –– that it is the best recipe for marital happiness and well-being. Abstinence-until-marriage is a beautiful promise that should be encouraged and promoted.”

Reminds me of a funny story. My mother maintains to this day that she was a virgin when she walked down the aisle. One day a few years ago she accidentally let it slip that she had a pregnancy scare months before the wedding (I think it was before they had even planned to get married)...then immediately tried to convince us that she knew it couldn't possibly be because she had never, well, you know.

Yeah, nice save, mom. [lol]

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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A few years ago, my parents told me, for some ungodly reason, that they had sex before marriage. I'm still scarred. I mean, I can see dad gettin' it on, but my mom being, well, affectionate, much less passionate, is just bizzare.

Oddly enough, these two were graduates of Bob Jones University, raised by very, very conservative parents, and started off their marriage teaching at Pensacola Christian (which is a very conservative school). If they were doin the nasty before walkin down the aisle, I'm thinkin everyone had to.

--------------------
So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Cowboy Joe
Deck the Malls


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quote:
Originally posted by snapdragonfly:
A study on this that only goes back as far as mid century doesn't seem to cover a broad enough time span to be of any signficance.

I would expect kids (older teens and early twenties) to have started being more sexually active before marriage around the 20's, just from what I know of the history of popular culture. I hear my grandmother was quite the flapper in her day...I don't want to really think about that one TOO much.

More relevant to me personally would be a study going back much further but since all the people would be dead, I guess that's really not possible. Heh.

~I would think, though, that the advent of legal birth control in the 60's, wasn't it, would have increased the willingness of a good portion of women to be sexually active that might not otherwise, or might be much less frequently. I know it would in my case.

This book might go back far enough for you. I think most of what we have been taught about "they way things always were" are merely inventions of people longing for a time in their lives they long for. Example, I often talk about how great I thought the 80s were. Then why was a such an emotional wreck growing up? I can't pinpoint which part of my life leds me to this nostalgia - my parents divorce, drug rehab at 17, the paraniod fear that we were all going to die in a nuclear war so why bother, catching my girlfriend in bed with my brother. On the other hand I had good friends, saw lots of great concerts, and generally lived it up for most of those years.

--------------------
"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." -George W. Bush, Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005

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mags
Jingle Bell Hock


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It wasn't until my sister and I were in our late teens that my mother let it slip that she had slept with dad before they were married. She had never told us otherwise, but I guess we just assumed. When she did mention it, she said "you didn't think I'd marry him without trying him out first?"

More recently, I learned something that absolutely blew my mind. My grandmother (who is in her mid 80s) has two sisters. My grandma was the only one of the three who wasn't pregnant when she got married.

Furthermore, when one of my great-aunts got pregnant (the one I have always considered the most reserved, and most proper), everyone in the family assumed her to be dating the man who eventually became my grandpa, but she married the father of her child instead, who apparently she was trysting with some of the times she was supposed to be out with my grandpa (who was very shy, so no one thought he was a "danger.").

It was only years later, after my grandma's first husband was killed in WWII, that my grandma started dating my grandpa. While he was married to another woman, no less. Back when they had been in high school together, she only talked to him to make him blush because she thought it was funny.

So, at least within my family, the women have always been having pre-marital sex. My grandma never would actually come out and tell us when she lost her virginity, but we're pretty certain it was before her first marriage, because she said "if I had known what I was giving up, I might not have."

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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There are plenty of stories of extramarital hankypanky and unplanned pregnancies among my mother's family, and I've known several people about my age who had at least one parent born outside marriage.

--------------------
How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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Gibbie
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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My great-great grandmother had 6 (documented) children and no husband. Ever. No live in male either, just her and the children. And this was (starting) in 1860. There's nothing new under the sun. [Smile]

Gibbie

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If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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callee
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.:
I'm still scarred. I mean, I can see dad gettin' it on, but my mom being, well, affectionate, much less passionate, is just bizzare.

from herein I will always picture your mother as lilith from fraser.

quote:
Oddly enough, these two were graduates of Bob Jones University, raised by very, very conservative parents, and started off their marriage teaching at Pensacola Christian (which is a very conservative school).
YOU descend from the loins of bobjones/pensacola conservatives? That is fascinatingly hilarious. you have just joined the list of snopesters I actually want to meet some day.

if you need some light reading one night, you might enjoy Growing Up Fundamentalist by Stefan Ulstein. He goes around and interviews a bunch of different people who grew up in fundamentalist homes and finds out what direction they ended up going in life, and how they think their childhood affected them, how they deal with things, etc.
Or, Spirit and Flesh by James Ault. He was a, by his own description, feminist sociologist at harvard and wanted to study the fundamentalist movement to find out why so many women were on its front lines when it was pursuing so many anti-woman causes. So he joined them. Like diane fosey going to live with the gorillas, he went and lived with the fundamentalists and took notes. He actually tells a compelling story, but I won't spoil the surprise ending.

--------------------
a moment for old friends now estranged, victims of the flux of alliances and changing perceptions. There was something there once, and that something is worth honoring as well. - John Carroll

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Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Gibbie:
My great-great grandmother had 6 (documented) children and no husband. Ever. No live in male either, just her and the children. And this was (starting) in 1860.

The CWA just sent out a press release saying that your great-great grandmother didn't exist. By definition, then, neither do you. [Razz]

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People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

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Doug4.7
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo.:
A few years ago, my parents told me, for some ungodly reason, that they had sex before marriage. I'm still scarred.

Part of me wants to use this type of information (brain bleachable stuff) to keep my kids from "doing it". Just tell them all about Mom & Dad and how we got "friendly". That ought to warp their minds enough to at least stop SOME activity....I can imagine it now....

"Babe, what's wrong? we were doing so well..."
"I...I just thought of the time my Dad said he & Mom did this...I think I'm gonna be sick..." [Wink]

Every generation thinks they are the first to discover sex.... [Smile]

--------------------
And now for something completely different...

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snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Cowboy Joe, that is indeed the sort of thing I would like to read about. Thanks for the link - looks fascinating.

That Spirit and Flesh looks real interesting, too.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by callee:

quote:
Oddly enough, these two were graduates of Bob Jones University, raised by very, very conservative parents, and started off their marriage teaching at Pensacola Christian (which is a very conservative school).
YOU descend from the loins of bobjones/pensacola conservatives? That is fascinatingly hilarious. you have just joined the list of snopesters I actually want to meet some day.
Yup. My maternal g-parents church was one of the first to financially support BJU (which was, at one time, supposed to be built in Northwest Fla.)

My father's parents, get this, were both employed by BJU, dad was born and raised there, and his parent's still live on campus (their origional home has been reassigned now that they are retired, and they live in a condo now).

Oh, and my home church growing up was First Baptist in Jacksonville, Fla., long-time home of SBC president Jerry Vines, who made national news after 9-11 for saying at the SBC that: "Islam was founded by Muhammad, a demon-possessed pedophile who had 12 wives, and his last one was a 9-year-old girl."

quote:
Originally posted by callee:

if you need some light reading one night, you might enjoy Growing Up Fundamentalist by Stefan Ulstein. He goes around and interviews a bunch of different people who grew up in fundamentalist homes and finds out what direction they ended up going in life, and how they think their childhood affected them, how they deal with things, etc.
Or, Spirit and Flesh by James Ault. He was a, by his own description, feminist sociologist at harvard and wanted to study the fundamentalist movement to find out why so many women were on its front lines when it was pursuing so many anti-woman causes. So he joined them. Like diane fosey going to live with the gorillas, he went and lived with the fundamentalists and took notes. He actually tells a compelling story, but I won't spoil the surprise ending.

Hmmm. I might. It might help me deal better. I have HUGE unresolved issues regarding religion. Really, really bad ones....

--------------------
So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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zman977
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by glass papaya:
quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:
I thought this quote was interesting:

quote:
However, Janice Crouse of Concerned Women for America, a conservative group which strongly supports abstinence-only education, said she was skeptical of the findings.

“Any time I see numbers that high, I’m a little suspicious,” she said. “The numbers are too pat.”

Note that she's objecting, not to the methodology, but to the results. The study must be wrong, not because it wasn't conducted properly, but because it yielded answers that didn't fit her agenda.

Here's another quote, from a CWA press release:

quote:
“The Harvard report is wrong. I know numerous couples who have saved sex for their wedding night. Research is clear –– that it is the best recipe for marital happiness and well-being. Abstinence-until-marriage is a beautiful promise that should be encouraged and promoted.”

Reminds me of a funny story. My mother maintains to this day that she was a virgin when she walked down the aisle. One day a few years ago she accidentally let it slip that she had a pregnancy scare months before the wedding (I think it was before they had even planned to get married)...then immediately tried to convince us that she knew it couldn't possibly be because she had never, well, you know.

Yeah, nice save, mom. [lol]

My mother in law tried to convince us that her mom and dad did not have sex utnil they were married. Until her father told my wife and I that indeed my MIL's mom was indeed pregnant with her on their wedding day. A fact my MIL still tries to argue with even though the math supposts it. Knowing when she was born and the date her parents got married would have made it impossible for her not to already have been on the way when her parents were married.

I've always taken the approach that people were always as sexually active as they are today they just did not talk about it as much.

--------------------
Check out the podcast at www.candidradio.com

Ever notice how we always fall in love? We never climb gently in to love, or step lightly in to love. If love is such a good thing than why is it described as a fall.

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Oh, also, The Way Things Never Were

is also wonderful reading, Snapdragonfly

--------------------
So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Oh, also, The Way Things Never Were

is also wonderful reading, Snapdragonfly

--------------------
So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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Ryda Wong, EBfCo.
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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Oh, also, The Way Things Never Were

is also wonderful reading, Snapdragonfly

--------------------
So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus:

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LeaflessMapleTree
The twelve shopping days 'til Christmas


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(Ooh. A triple-waffle! Does that have a special name? McWaffle Mac, perhaps?)

...continue on:

--------------------
"For me, religion is like a rhinoceros: I don't have one, and I'd really prefer not to be trampled by yours. But it is impressive, and even beautiful, and, to be honest, the world would be slightly worse off if there weren't any."
-Silas Sparkhammer

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BlushingBride
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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A few years ago we found out that my Grandparents were actually married several months after the date they celebrate their anniversary. A fact which further revealed that the date they celebrate their anniversary is very close to the day they met. It's also 9 months (to the day) before the birth of my eldest aunt. And, as my Mom pointed out, it was the first Saturday of the school year the year my Grandma went away to college.

Those wild and crazy Grandparents of mine

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"In perfume, as in underwear, the scantiest of applications provides the greatest of returns." -Silas Sparkhammer

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snapdragonfly
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Thanks, Ryda.

Looks like I have some nice prospects for after Christmas reading, goodie.

--------------------
"Wolves, dragons and vampires, man. Draw the nut-bars like big ol' nut-bar magnets." ~evilrabbit

(snurched because one of my nutbar family members is all about wolves and another one is all about dragons...)(with apologies to surfcitydogdad)

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Rob D / Blackwolf, the yule dodo
Deck the Malls


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My DW and I had sex before we got married, and while she was my first, I wasn't hers.
Also my mother had 2 kids out of wedlock before she married my dad and my older brother was born October 12th 1970, their wedding date was October 10th 1970. Furthermore, my wife was born out of wedlock, and so was my MIL and my Grandmother in Law. Actually it seemed like a family tradition of my DW's family, including my Brother in Law, cousins, etc.
ETA: It actually seems that our children are the odd ones because the first was born AFTER we got married.

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~Reality, the refuge of those who fail in RPGs~
aka Darkfist Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-

Posts: 334 | From: Lancaster, Ohio | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Spamamander in a pear tree
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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I guess my horrible moral-less liberalism was caused by my horrible parents... my mom was marrying husband number three when pregnant with me... by my biological father who died the month I was conceived, to whom she wasn't married.

Now, while she didn't want me to follow in her footsteps- she wanted me to find happiness without the trials she went through (the stepfather she married while pregnant with me turned out to be an alcoholic wifebeater, for instance) she DID tell me in regards to premarital sex that "You wouldn't buy a car without a test-drive". It makes sense to me- sexual incompatibility can make for an unhappy marriage. YMMV, of course.

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"There is a race between mankind and the universe. Mankind is trying to build bigger, better, faster, and more foolproof machines. The universe is trying to build bigger, better, and faster fools. So far the universe is winning." -Albert Einstein

Posts: 1058 | From: Yakima, WA | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Sara at home
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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My great grandmother, who died at 89 in 1958, told my mom that the girls use to go out to the hayloft with the boys and when a girl got pregnant is when she got married.

As my mother and I talked over they years, I noticed that most of the couples her age we knew "had" to get married. Usually this came out when my mom complained that the woman got all holier-than-thou on hearing that someone my age "had" to get married. Turns out, almost everyone in my parents crowd "had" to get married....except my parents. Or so the story went.

Every new generation seems to think they invented sex and every older generations lets them think that.

ETA: I prefer the term "non marital sex".

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Assume that all my posts will be edited at least once. Dyslexic -- can't spell, can't type, can't proofread.

Posts: 8317 | From: Reading, PA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Mistletoey Chloe
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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My grandmother once declared proudly, "No one in our family ever *had* to get married." When I mentioned this to my aunt, she laughed out loud, pointed out their wedding date and her birthday, and invited me to do the math.

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~~Ai am in mai prrrrrraime!~~

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FireSpook
The First USA Noel


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Hmmm, Organisations like CWA really piss me off;they never seem to really focus on issues that really matter, like the homeless.

Cause you know, the evil Universities are trying to destroy our children!

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Posts: 667 | From: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Cervus
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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My parents lived together eight years before they got married. Mom was always very upfront about that; I guess she expected me to draw my own conclusions about her views on non-marital sex.

Although I was shocked when, as a child, I found old love letters from my father's old girlfriends and then discovered my grandmother was engaged to another man before she met my grandfather. Up until that point, I'd assumed couples in my family had never dated anyone else!

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"There is no constitutional right to sleep with endangered reptiles." -- Carl Hiaasen
Won't somebody please think of the adults!

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Delta-V
Xboxing Day


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There was a moment at my grandfather's funeral where the person giving the eulogy mentioned my grandparents mariage date. My aunt, the oldest child, realized it post-dated her birth date. She was all "Mom, that's not right. They made a mistake". Grandma never said a word...

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"My neighbor asked why anyone would need a car that can go 190 mph. If the answer isn't obvious, and explaination won't help." - Csabe Csere

Posts: 1225 | From: Wichita, Kansas | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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