snopes.com Post new topic  New Poll  Post a reply
search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hello snopes.com » Non-UL Chat » NFBSK Gone Wild! » Man says he has right to have sex with children

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Man says he has right to have sex with children
snopes
Return! Return! Return!


Icon 15 posted      Profile for snopes   Author's Homepage   E-mail snopes       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
A man accused of sexually assaulting nine boys with physical or mental disabilities told a judge that having sex with children is a sacred ritual protected by civil rights laws.

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0803TutorCharges03-ON.html

Posts: 36029 | From: Admin | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
ThreeQuarks
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


Icon 1 posted      Profile for ThreeQuarks     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Human sacrifice is a sacred ritual too, but it sure isn't protected by civil rights laws.
Posts: 109 | From: Pittsburgh, PA | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
mags
Jingle Bell Hock


Icon 1 posted      Profile for mags     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Seperation of church and state protects your beliefs not your actions.
Posts: 550 | From: Springboro, OH | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
tootiredtocare
Deck the Malls


Icon 1 posted      Profile for tootiredtocare     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Well it was only a matter of time before a paedophilistic religious nut used this angle. I wonder how many other paedophiles believe the same way.
Posts: 320 | From: Birmingham, Alabama | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Echinodermata Q. Taft
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Echinodermata Q. Taft   Author's Homepage     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
The guy is quoted as saying: "The only reason I'm charged with rape is that no one believes a child can consent to sex."

Um...yeah, that's pretty much sums it up.

(Of course, the fact that seven of the boys he's accused of molesting were autistic, and two others were disabled in some unspecified way, doesn't exactly help his case, either.)

--------------------
http://eqtaft.blogspot.com

Hope for the future! http://www.runobama.com

Posts: 3218 | From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Little Pink Pill
Little Sales Drummer Boy


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Little Pink Pill     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by tootiredtocare:
Well it was only a matter of time before a paedophilistic religious nut used this angle. I wonder how many other paedophiles believe the same way.

My guess is not many--sincerely, anyway. But I'd imagine there are quite a few molesters who'd be willing to take up the "cause."

--------------------
The technical term is narcissism. You can't believe everything is your fault unless you also believe you're all powerful.--House

Posts: 2684 | From: Budapest | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Spc. Sharki
Deck the Malls


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Spc. Sharki   E-mail Spc. Sharki   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
To qoute Stan, or maybe it was Kyle, "I believe in tolerence and equality and all that junk, but dude, F--k you."

--------------------
Let your TV bleed- Tom Petty

Posts: 329 | From: Wiesbaden, Germany | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Colonel Zoidberg
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Colonel Zoidberg     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Hmmm...the religion angle. I thought he was going to pull the "I'm a super-hyper-mega-Libertarian trying to bring down these ridiculous age of consent laws" angle. When I, or most people, say the government should back off of sex laws, I assure you, this is not what we had in mind.
Posts: 105 | From: Columbus, OH | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
DemonWolf
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for DemonWolf     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mags:
Seperation of church and state protects your beliefs not your actions.

I disagree with that statement. The text of the first ammendment reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...".

"Free exercise" would include some actions, such as wearing a headcovering, reading a book, or say consumption of a food or drink. It is widely accepted, however, that your right to fee exercise end where it begins to infringe on my rights.

If this was a case where this man was harming consenting adults, I would have no problem, but this is a case of a man having sex with children who cannot consent (especially because some are disabled).

IMO, this case does not fall under 1st Ammendment protection, but not for the reasons you cited.

--------------------
Friends are like skittles: they come in many colors, and some are fruity!

IMJW-052804

Posts: 7224 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
DemonWolf
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for DemonWolf     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Colonel Zoidberg:
Hmmm...the religion angle. I thought he was going to pull the "I'm a super-hyper-mega-Libertarian trying to bring down these ridiculous age of consent laws" angle. When I, or most people, say the government should back off of sex laws, I assure you, this is not what we had in mind.

The only problem that I have with age of consent laws is that, IMO, most are flaw in such a way that a person can go to jail for consentual sex with a person who is essentially a peer. a 19 year old who stayed back a year could (in theory) go to jail for having consentual sex with a 17 year old classmate.
I'm not sure what wording would correct this problem, but it does need to be corrected.

--------------------
Friends are like skittles: they come in many colors, and some are fruity!

IMJW-052804

Posts: 7224 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Dogwater
Happy Holly Days


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dogwater   E-mail Dogwater   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Man says he has a right to have sex with children
Which means I better get started on that church I've been meaning to establish...The Church of Ball-Bat to the Knees

Then I'll start practicing my Freedom of Religion on this F-NFBSK.

--------------------
As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

Posts: 1679 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Cobra4J
Jingle Bell Hock


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Cobra4J   E-mail Cobra4J   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Lets not go too far with this "age of consent" angle please. Whether a 19 year old, or a 21 year old should be able to have sex with a 17 year old is one thing- whether an adult should be having sex with a child (someone under age 10 I would certainly consider a child) is the issue.

Freedom of religion does give me the right to believe in whatever I choose, and it does protect some of my behaviors (during prohibition, the Catholic church was still using real wine for communion). But, it does not protect me from intentionally doing harm or exploiting the helpless- and these boys were definitely helpless.

This case does bother me, because now, once again, religion will be getting a black eye- It's not my fault some nut chooses to invent a God that wants this, but I'm sure believers like me will be hearing about this.

It also bothers me that there are jerks out there who believe crap like this. When I was about 23, my friend was living with a woman who had three daughters. The oldest one was ten at the time, and she was flirting with me - not like a 10 year old flirts with a man, but more like a 21 year old lap dancer. She had been sexually abused already, and her mother was a terrible role model. Now, if I had been alone with this girl, I wouldn't be surprised if she would have been the one saying "My bedroom is over here."

If that had happened, should I have said yes? I'm an adult, I have the responsibility to do what is best for that child. Children are not sex toys for me to use for my own pleasure, even if they seem willing. If I don't have the ability to say no to sex, then there is something terribly wrong with me.

Posts: 479 | From: Owosso, MI | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Dr. Dave
Frosty the Pitchman


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dr. Dave     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by DemonWolf:
quote:
Originally posted by mags:
Seperation of church and state protects your beliefs not your actions.

I disagree with that statement. The text of the first ammendment reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...".

"Free exercise" would include some actions, such as wearing a headcovering, reading a book, or say consumption of a food or drink. It is widely accepted, however, that your right to fee exercise end where it begins to infringe on my rights.

{snip}

The way I learned it (in college, not law school-I never went to law school), the first ammendment protects religious actions- potentially even if they infringe on someone elses rights- unless there is a compelling state interest in violating the person's first ammendment protections. Also, the restriction should be the least restrictive to achieve the compelling state interest.

I suspect that the federal courts and SCOTUS would consider protecting autistic 9 year olds from sexual predators a compelling state interest.

Posts: 400 | From: Maryland | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
DemonWolf
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for DemonWolf     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
Dr. Dave, you summed up what I was trying to say much more eloquently. Thanks!

--------------------
Friends are like skittles: they come in many colors, and some are fruity!

IMJW-052804

Posts: 7224 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Darth Mikey
Deck the Malls


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Darth Mikey   E-mail Darth Mikey   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
This whole situation can be solved by a time honored and sacred ritual.

A public hanging.

--------------------
Jack the sound barrier. Bring the noise.

-Rat Thing B782

Posts: 250 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Joe Bentley
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Joe Bentley   Author's Homepage   E-mail Joe Bentley   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mags:
Seperation of church and state protects your beliefs not your actions.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

I was afraid I was the only one out there who got the concept that "Freedom of Religion" was never meant to mean "I Can Do Anything I Want If My Religion Tells Me Too."

--------------------
"Existence has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long." - Rorschach, The Watchmen

Posts: 8929 | From: Norfolk, Virginia | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
pinqy
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for pinqy   E-mail pinqy   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
The current standing from the Supreme Court is that if a law "is neutral and of general applicability" then it does not require compelling government interest. Justices Blackmun and O'Connor did not agree with this.

While the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993 requires compelling government interest, the Supreme Court ruled in CITY OF BOERNE v. FLORES(1997) that Congress overstepped its bounds and that "Legislation which alters the Free Exercise Clause's meaning cannot be said to be enforcing the Clause. Congress does not enforce a constitutional right by changing what the right is."

pinqy

--------------------
Don't Forget!
Winter Solstice Hanukkah Christmas Kwanzaa & Gurnenthar's Ascendance Are Coming!

Posts: 8671 | From: Washington, DC | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Dutch Angua
Deck the Malls


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Dutch Angua   Author's Homepage     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
This whole situation can be solved by a time honored and sacred ritual.

A public hanging.

My religion involves cutting off men's genitalia.

May I?

--------------------
Dude, where's my siggy?

Posts: 276 | From: Holland | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Canuckistan
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 506 posted      Profile for Canuckistan   E-mail Canuckistan   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Dutch Angua:
My religion involves cutting off men's genitalia.

May I?

Uh ... I'd rather you didn't. [Razz]

Not much more to add, other than that I hope the God he believes in shows him straight to the hell that's surely awaiting him.

What a creep.

--------------------
People need to stop appropriating Jesus as their reason for behaving badly. It's so irritating. (Avril)

Posts: 8429 | From: New York run by the Swiss (Toronto) | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Goombah
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Goombah     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Colonel Zoidberg:
Hmmm...the religion angle. I thought he was going to pull the "I'm a super-hyper-mega-Libertarian trying to bring down these ridiculous age of consent laws" angle. When I, or most people, say the government should back off of sex laws, I assure you, this is not what we had in mind.

Hey! I am a super-hyper-mega-Libertarian and even I'm not that nutty. Of course if we didn't have an out of control government that irrationally keeps concealed RPGs out of the hands of autistic children then none of this would even be an issues. PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEFEND THEMSELVES! [lol]

--------------------
Ok guys, try to remember this time. It's pillage first, then burn.

Posts: 179 | From: Holdrege, NE | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Joe Bentley
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Joe Bentley   Author's Homepage   E-mail Joe Bentley   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Dutch Angua:
My religion involves cutting off men's genitalia.

Somebody please stop me before I make a circumsicion joke. Please. I mean it. Someone unplug my computer or wack me across the back of the head with a chair or something. I don't think I help myself... [Razz]

--------------------
"Existence has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long." - Rorschach, The Watchmen

Posts: 8929 | From: Norfolk, Virginia | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
DemonWolf
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for DemonWolf     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Bentley:
quote:
Originally posted by Dutch Angua:
My religion involves cutting off men's genitalia.

Somebody please stop me before I make a circumsicion joke. Please. I mean it. Someone unplug my computer or wack me across the back of the head with a chair or something. I don't think I help myself... [Razz]
With pleasure. Please PM me your address. [Razz]

--------------------
Friends are like skittles: they come in many colors, and some are fruity!

IMJW-052804

Posts: 7224 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Ophiuchus
Deck the Malls


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ophiuchus   E-mail Ophiuchus   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
The Supreme Court has ruled before that acts that are criminal can be done by churches without interferance.

When the Constitution banned alcohol, the Supreme Court made a specific exemption to Catholics participating in mass.

Similarly, peyote is legal for Native Americans to use in religious ceremonies, but it is considered an illegal substance otherwise. (It is sort of funny considering the drug seems to have less harmful long-term effects than alcohol or nicotine.)

Posts: 411 | From: California | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


Icon 1 posted      Profile for AnglsWeHvHrdOnHiRdr     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ophiuchus:
The Supreme Court has ruled before that acts that are criminal can be done by churches without interferance.

That is a gross oversimplification, actually.

--------------------
"When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw

Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
DemonWolf
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for DemonWolf     Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by AnglRdr:
quote:
Originally posted by Ophiuchus:
The Supreme Court has ruled before that acts that are criminal can be done by churches without interferance.

That is a gross oversimplification, actually.
Agreed. More acurately, I would say that the USSC has ruled that acts that would otherwisev be criminal are allowed when done for long established religous reasons.

In the cases you cited, the Catholics only take a sip of wine, they do not imbibe to excess (at least not until they get home after mass [Razz] ) and Native Americans may only use peyote as part of thier religious ceremonies, they do not use it recreationally - in fact, they consider it too sacred to use recreationally.

--------------------
Friends are like skittles: they come in many colors, and some are fruity!

IMJW-052804

Posts: 7224 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Darth Mikey
Deck the Malls


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Darth Mikey   E-mail Darth Mikey   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Bentley:
quote:
Originally posted by Dutch Angua:
My religion involves cutting off men's genitalia.

Somebody please stop me before I make a circumsicion joke. Please. I mean it. Someone unplug my computer or wack me across the back of the head with a chair or something. I don't think I help myself... [Razz]
Hehehehe. Go for it. [Big Grin]

--------------------
Jack the sound barrier. Bring the noise.

-Rat Thing B782

Posts: 250 | From: Pennsylvania | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
pinqy
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


Icon 1 posted      Profile for pinqy   E-mail pinqy   Send new private message       Edit/Delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ophiuchus:
The Supreme Court has ruled before that acts that are criminal can be done by churches without interferance.

They never have.

quote:
When the Constitution banned alcohol, the Supreme Court made a specific exemption to Catholics participating in mass.
No, it didn't. An exception for use of wine for "sacramental purposes" was included in the Prohibition Act. No particular religion was specified, but in practice it applied to Catholics and Jews as the main groups to use sacramental wine. It would be unconstitutional to allow only Catholics to have an exception. But mainly, it was a congressional act, not a SCOTUS decision.

quote:
Similarly, peyote is legal for Native Americans to use in religious ceremonies, but it is considered an illegal substance otherwise. (It is sort of funny considering the drug seems to have less harmful long-term effects than alcohol or nicotine.)
No, not really.
quote:

Employment Division v Smith(1990)

Held:

The Free Exercise Clause permits the State to prohibit sacramental peyote use and thus to deny unemployment benefits to persons discharged for such use. Pp. 876-890.


(a) Although a State would be "prohibiting the free exercise [of religion]" in violation of the Clause if it sought to ban the performance of (or abstention from) physical acts solely because of their religious motivation, the Clause does not relieve an individual of the obligation to comply with a law that incidentally forbids (or requires) the performance of an act that his religious belief requires (or forbids) if the law is not specifically directed to religious practice and is otherwise constitutional as applied to those who engage in the specified act for nonreligious reasons. [/b]

The Court pointed out that many states do grant an exception to peyote, but that nothing in the Constitution requires them to do so.

pinqy

--------------------
Don't Forget!
Winter Solstice Hanukkah Christmas Kwanzaa & Gurnenthar's Ascendance Are Coming!

Posts: 8671 | From: Washington, DC | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post new topic  New Poll  Post a reply Close topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Urban Legends Reference Pages

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2