quote:Originally posted by Rhiandmoi: I have a hijacking question: when partners have differing libidos, how should compromise be?
That's what I want to know, as well as if there were differing libidos at the beginning of the relationship.
Sometimes I think you have to look to society b/c some people seem to seek the gender role cliches that society espouses. Of course there are exceptions but for the most part I see the same thing in relationships: during the boyfriend/girlfriend & engagement phase the sex is great & everyone's happy. Then after the first couple of years of marriage it tapers off to 'special occaisions' & the guy complains his wife 'won't give him any'. Again, I'm not stating a blanket view, b/c posters above have stated differently. I'm just stating a trend I hear about over & over again.
-------------------- No man has a right in America to treat any other man "tolerantly" for tolerance is the assumption of superiority. -Wendell L. Willkie Posts: 3833 | From: Virginia | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by dfresh: My buddy went through the exact same thing. After a few years of marriage, his wife got more and more interested in work, leaving the rest to him. It became all about her, and her feelings. He got nothing from her emotionally. He tried doing things. He tried dates. He had me take care of their daughter so he and his wife could go away (she refused to go.)
And please do realize that people change over the years, and find out that what they thought they needed isn't what they need. In cases like this, these people might have found that work and career meets their needs, but that family and relationships aren't where their heart lies. If this is the case, it's a tragedy that the person didn't discover this before they married and started a family, but it doesn't mean they are a bad person, or that there's something wrong with them.
-------------------- So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus: Posts: 3216 | From: Denver, CO | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Rhiandmoi: I have a hijacking question: when partners have differing libidos, how should compromise be?
I agree with the previous response to this, about an agreeable in-between number of times. I'd also like to add that the one who wants it more often would do well to not take it personally - sometimes the other one is just too tired! Guilt trips won't make the problem go away either.
-------------------- Another lifetime I'd have fallen in love with you Swept away by my feelings, ashamed and confused But just now it's enough to be walking with you Let the mystery play as it will! -Lui Collins Posts: 2669 | From: Jouy en Josas, France | Registered: May 2005
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I haven't read the whole thread, so if my response is echoing others, please forgive me.
However, once again (twice in 24 hours, amazingly ) I find myself agreeing with Ryda. Monogamy can be a real bitch--because, without a degree of creativity, boredom can set in. I'm not suggesting tring something wild, crazy, or totally out of character... but something different once in ahwile can do WONDERS to restore a waning libido, both male and female.
The problem is the awkwardness factor of discussing it. If a husband asks his wife "Are you bored?", I bet 80% of bored wives will say "no," simply because they percieve (in some cases correctly) that an honest answer will totally deflate their husband's ego.
A good work around, which avoids the issue of awkward conversations, is to approach the subject in a sidewise fashion. For example, offer up a "kinkiness/vive la difference" potential in a way that niether endorses nor denies it--just puts the possibility out there. How do you do this?
I know a ton of snopesters are going to laugh at this, but go on Amazon.com and buy "My Secret Garden" or any other of Nancy Friday's books on female sexuality and sexual fantasy. Give it to your SO. It is not literary porn, nor does it bear the stigma--they are legitimate surveys of female sexual fantasies, ranging from the tame & vanilla to the wildly kinky, and everything in between.
Giving it to your SO as a present (and its appearance as a serious "scholarly" work, not literary porn) will allow HER to thumb through it and find what excites her. All you need to do is encourage her--it's a perfect way of elliciting an honest discussion of her sexual needs, while removing the akwardness factor.
And if boredom really is the issue... trust me, as long as you play it cool and listen to her responses, I would expect serious success with this or a similar approach.
Just one suggestion among many, but think about it.
-------------------- High on the wind, the Highland drums begin to roll, and something from the past just comes and stares into my soul... --Mark Knopfler Posts: 3402 | From: New Bern, NC | Registered: May 2004
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Towknie, again I'm being repetitive of others here, but get thee to joint therapy. Maybe part of the issue is respect? That's part of what hindered things in my first marriage, we both lost respect for each other.
I certainly lost respect for my ex as time progressed. But even though I was the stable one, even though, as he put it, I was the "glue that held the familyi together," he had lost respect for me long before I did for him.
Specifically, he lost respect for me as a human being. Instead, I was the "maker of meals," "payer of bills," "caregiver of child," "cleaner of house," but I was no longer a "partner." I was a facilitator for his lifestyle and nothing more. Of course, I let that happen. I kept stepping up to the plate and taking on more and more trying to keep things together and running. Turned out that was the completely WRONG thing to do.
At one point, when we were discussing having more children, I said I wanted to wait until we got more of our personal issues resolved. His retort? "I am going to have more children within the next five years. I would prefer YOU be their mother." Although other things actually provided the catalyst for the divorce, in retrospect, that was the moment I knew deep down it was over, because I finally knew what my status was to him. And it wasn't "partner."
If things are the way you say they are, then maybe it's time to not bend over backwards trying to keep her happy. Don't become a doormat like I eventually did, because who respects a doormat? And a doormat certainly can't respect itself.
Toward the end, I started laying down what was, and was not acceptable behavior. I made it clear that my daughter and I both were not getting the respect we deserved, and acknowledged I had as much fault in that as he did.
There were some ups and downs for a while, and ultimately, it did not work out. But if nothing else, I got my self-respect back. And more importantly, I think I've modeled to my child that you don't HAVE to accept that kind of treatment. It's okay to have boundaries.
Anyway, sorry for blathering on. That's just my two cents, or at inflated attorney prices, 48 cents.
-------------------- Bender: Oh cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones, it bones for thee. Posts: 1170 | From: Iowa | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:Originally posted by DesertRat: However, once again (twice in 24 hours, amazingly ) I find myself agreeing with Ryda.
Dude. I must have slipped down the rabbit hole!
-------------------- So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus: Posts: 3216 | From: Denver, CO | Registered: Dec 2005
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Okay, this became a huge problem with my exH and I. I began to be simply not interested.
Here was the deal: I was working full time, as was he. I bore the lioness's share of the work at home (cleaning, shopping, social arrangements) and I was the one to sacrifice when he got himself into trouble. In short, I felt like his mother.
When it came to sex, it was very clear that he wanted sex. What was not clear is that he wanted me. The only time he paid attention to me is when he wanted sex. It was yet another thing I had to do to make him happy. And it was terribly repetative. A few minutes of him pounding away on top, followed by "you want to get on top?" (something I normally enjoy by the way!)-- which meant of course, that I was doing most of the well doing. He would often just lay there.
He claimed he tried to talk about the situation, but from my perspective, these discussions were always "I am unhappy with our sex life. Fix it."
The one time I pointed out that he spent more time with is motorcycle (or reading about motorcycles or planning which motorcycle I was going to buy him next), than with me, he blew a gasket. Because, you see, it was because our sex life was so horrible. He simply didn't see the correlation.
And a problem I seemed to have with side effects of antidepressants, seems to have gone away since the divorce.
My libido is fine- healthy even. Of course it would figure that I have no one with whom to express it- but that is another rant entirely.
I agree- a marriage counsellor is in order here. If nothing else to answer Gayle's question.
Good luck!
-------------------- There are people who drive really nice cars who feel that [those] cars won't be as special if other people drive them too. Where I come from, we call those people "selfish self-satisfied gits." -Chloe Posts: 6995 | From: New Mexico | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Wow, Chloe, I forgot about the whole berating issue. There was that aspect of it as well.
-------------------- There are people who drive really nice cars who feel that [those] cars won't be as special if other people drive them too. Where I come from, we call those people "selfish self-satisfied gits." -Chloe Posts: 6995 | From: New Mexico | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ryda Wong: And please do realize that people change over the years, and find out that what they thought they needed isn't what they need. In cases like this, these people might have found that work and career meets their needs, but that family and relationships aren't where their heart lies.[/QB]
This could well be the case, as the same thing happened to me, but in reverse. I used to love my high-powered, bigwiggy job; loved the window office, the business trips; the ego stroking from co-workers and occasionally supervisors. Then suddenly, I started to feel completely overwhelmed by my chosen career after 12 years and 3 different employers. I wanted to spend more time with my family, and I wanted to spend more time pursuing other interests outside of work. I told my husband I wanted to quit my job and look for something part time, maybe as a glorified administrative assistant somewhere. And believe me, he was completely gobsmacked - I had done a complete 180 on him after 12 years of marriage and 15 years together. So now I work out of my home doing tech support for a software company, wearing sweats every day, with no one to stroke my ego, and I'm happier than a freaking clam.
As far as the OP goes, though, I'm 35, as is my husband, with an 8 year old child. We have always had regular sex throughout our relationship, with no sign of slowing down at all. We would have even more sex if my hubby didn't work overnights (we are intimate at least 2-3 times per week, usually at least a couple of "sessions" within each of those times). I don't find monogamy difficult at all, personally - I'm probably having a hell of a lot more sex than I would if I were single, since casual sex was never much of a draw for me.
I too think that the root of this issue is a dissatifaction with your marriage, for whatever the underlying reason may be (and I also agree with those who say a good therapist will be able to get to the bottom of those). Your wife's job may not be what's taking her away from you and your daughter - perhaps she just wants *out* and her job is a handy excuse to not be around doing the wife & mother thing.
-------------------- My Belly Dance Business - Galatea Middle Eastern Dance - www.galateadancer.com
Q: What's the difference between an onion and a mizmar? A: No one cries when they cut up a mizmar. Posts: 786 | From: Milwaukee, WI | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Towknie: If I can get on my Warren Farrell soapbox for a second, I think a part of the problem with women in my age group is that they were sold a bill of goods when they were younger.
Towknie - I'm going to go against the flow and agree with you somewhat here.
[for the record: female. 14 monogomous years, nothing kinky, it's still pretty good, but it's been pretty rocky for a few patches in the middle there]
I've often saidthat I feel like I bought wholesale into both the Mills&Boons romance theory, and the feminist self-fulfiling theory, nad thought I could have both. A huge part of our latest, hardest rocky patch came from that dichotomy - I wanted to be self-reliant, but I wanted my man to be there for me when I got home, with rose petals on the sheets, etc.
Towknie, I don't really know what to advise you - counselling probably is a good idea, but it sounds as if your wife might be too busy to go there, even. It is heartbreaking when one of you sees a problem in the relationship, and the other just wants to keep moving in the same direction.
In the meanwhile, some things you can try: Take sex off the agenda. [I'm gonna get slamed for this, again] Set yourself a reasonable time period [depending on YOUR libido, that might be only a few days, but it may take a week or so to really work] and focus on your wife's needs. Now, I hear you that you feel like you've been doing that already and it hasn't worked. But go on, give it one more week, go on, go on Make a concious effort to be in the room when she walks in the door after work. Look her in the eye and welcome her home. Don't kiss her, maybe offer a hug, but just be there in a friendly way. Play a game of verbal tag - your task is to connect verbally with her, at some designated repetitive point [e.g you go to the bathroom, when you come back into the room, ask her what she's reading about in the newspaper, what happened at work today, how the car is running - innocuous stuff about her world. Make eye contact, and listen to her answers.
Don't necessarily be more physical with her, unless she invites it, in which case, go for the non-sexual hug, the neck-rub, bring her a warm pair of socks [lean them against the kettle for a minute] or a sweater, a cold drink, and attend to her physical, non-sexual, non-sensual needs.
It's a funny thing that it might give her reason to persue you for the sensual stuff - you may find her reaching out to touch you.
If after a week of genuine human warmth and friendliness, things haven't changed, even a tiny bit, then you know that there is something seriously, seriously wrong in your relationship. But in my experience, sometimes, work is so attractive because the people and experiences there are interesting and warm and friendly and sometimes home, by comparison, is not.
While you're doing all this, you'll need to be taking care of yourself - not just in the NFBSK way, either: Go buy yourself your favourite breakfast cereal, make time to go for a run [or just a walk] rent a new music CD from the library, and make your world pleasant for you.
It's worth trying, at least, and who knows what might happen.
For me, it was when we stopped treating each other like housemates, parenting-parnters etc, and started treating the other one like someone who has a life that I'm interested in, the shift BEGAN to happen.
The other thing is, you didn't get to this place overnight, so it's going to take at least as long going out as it did going in. The good news is, that it's a lot more fun on the way back up
-------------------- Windows cannot open this file. To open this file correctly, defenestrate, then try running the file again... Posts: 5383 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Jan 2003
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OK, here's an update on what I've done. I fabricated a business trip to go clear my head. While out, I purchased a couple books on relationships (the two in the store NOT written by Dr. Phil), and read them to try to understand my own shortcomings as well as try to understand where she's coming from.
In reading, some of the things I've expressed in earlier posts seem to be right, and others seem to be outright wrong. I'm going home tomorrow, and I will let her know that I've read the books, and ask that she do the same before we begin a dialogue on the whole thing.
The most interesting thing I've gleened from all of this, is that we men tend to view a relationship like a car -- if it's running ,and it gets me from point A to point B, everything is fine. Meanwhile, the oil pressure could be going bad, the tires could be getting bald, and suddenly we're confronted with a big problem that we just didn't see coming. We men want stability without constant checkups of everything, while women are constantly monitoring the situation, but need to step up to the plate to express their concerns so that we're aware of them from the get go.
Bottom line, there seems to be a lack of communication from both sides here.
Thanks for all your posts -- even the ones that called bullshit on me.
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) I find myself agreeing with Ryda. Monogamy can be a real bitch--because, without a degree of creativity, boredom can set in. I'm not suggesting tring something wild, crazy, or totally out of character... but something different once in ahwile can do WONDERS to restore a waning libido, both male and female.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
