posted
Wait, let me get this straight: in this thread, the argument is about two people (or at least one person) having sex for the first time and how it should go.
One side says, wait until you're ready and take it slowly. The other is saying, put out the minute you can and if you don't there's something wrong with you.
...am I missing something? This should be a no-brainer, right?
Posts: 1251 | From: Michigan | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Steph Summers: Troberg is where it's at. Some of you are slow learners if it takes 3-5 days...to not feel tired and to begin penetrative sex. I don't think jerking off is the answer to his hard-on. Understanding, concern for one's partner and mutual satisfaction may be a lot better.
Excuse me, while I delete Marrya's musings from the real world.
Why, exactly, is penetrative sex so very important to you???
And how can it be mutual satisfaction if you aren't ready yet?
And concern goes both ways. If one isn't ready, they are the one that needs understanding and concern, and they need that from the one that is ready.
I'm not sure how you can defend ANY of what you are saying, Steph. Care to explain???
-------------------- So many spankings! It feels so good! But at the same time, I don't care about meeting your family! - I'mNotDedalus: Posts: 3216 | From: Denver, CO | Registered: Dec 2005
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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
posted
A friend of mine was a virgin on her wedding night, but she also had an univited relative visiting her. Not how most people want their first time to go, so they waited until the relative had left town.
Another friend was a virgin other than a really traumatic abuse experience and she was terrified of her wedding night. They did what she was comfortable with when she was comfortable with it. She got pretty comfortable and now they have 3 kids.
You shouldn't feel gross or scared anytime you have sex, esepcially not your first time, and hopefully your chosen life partner appreciates that.
-------------------- I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.
quote:Originally posted by Em Dash, or Marion Croatia: Wait, let me get this straight: in this thread, the argument is about two people (or at least one person) having sex for the first time and how it should go.
One side says, wait until you're ready and take it slowly. The other is saying, put out the minute you can and if you don't there's something wrong with you.
...am I missing something? This should be a no-brainer, right?
Pretty close. This debate seems to be mostly about miscommunication. One side says you don't have to do everything the first night. You should both wait until you are comfortable. The other side thinks that this means that this means that there will never be compromise on sexual matters. For example, the second side thinks that the first side is saying that there is only sex when both people want it. Meaning that neither sex compromises when one person kinda doesn't want to and the other person really, really wants too. What the first really means is that there shouldn't be sex if one person really wants to and the other really, really doesn't want to.
-------------------- IIRC, it wasn't the shoe bomber's loud prayers that sparked the takedown by the other passengers; it was that he was trying to light his shoe on fire. Very, very different. Canuckistan Posts: 3694 | From: Arizona | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Em Dash, or Marion Croatia: ...am I missing something? This should be a no-brainer, right?
You know, a couple of days ago, I'd have thought so, too. shrugs.
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Steph Summers
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales
posted
Tangents, tangents, tangents.....
Why are some of the other women ranting about the guy forcing penetrative sex on the girl. Please go back to Maple Leaf's starting point. He wants to know how painful it was the first time...that's all.
He was kind and gentle and his partner said it wasn't THAT bad. In other words, she was a willing partner; not afraid, not NOT READY. She wanted it as badly as he did. That's why I think it's ridiculous to wait 3-5 days because Marrya thinks they would both be less tired then.
Besides, that's still avoiding Maple Leaf's question about how painful it was for her the first time! 3-5 days later shouldn't affect the first-time pain, unless she was in a rodeo, riding bucking broncos right after the honeymoon!
The original assumption, then is that both partners wanted to have sex right then and there. So, if BOTH partners want to have penetrative sex, what's the big deal? Why wait? Don't worry; be happy.
Posts: 141 | From: Newport, RI | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Steph Summers: Tangents, tangents, tangents.....
Why are some of the other women ranting about the guy forcing penetrative sex on the girl. Please go back to Maple Leaf's starting point. He wants to know how painful it was the first time...that's all.
Wrong again! You just can't seem to get it right. (Your reading skills are not very good. Your spelling, on the other hand, is impeccable.)
Marrya was responding to Nuclear Mosquito's post (which I will quote without TMI space because this is plenty).
quote:This is exactly my fear for when I get married next year. Oh yeah, guess there's no place like a topic in NFBSK to say my boyfriend proposed to me on New Years' Eve.
And she went on to explain in detail why she was nervous.
So before you make fun of other people's spelling and arrogantly state that you'll "delete her musings from the real world", read the thread.
Posts: 4922 | From: Kyoto, Japan | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
But Steph Summers is correct in what I was asking people. Not that I mind the thread being hijacked. That is almost expected at Snopes.
-------------------- "For me, religion is like a rhinoceros: I don't have one, and I'd really prefer not to be trampled by yours. But it is impressive, and even beautiful, and, to be honest, the world would be slightly worse off if there weren't any." -Silas Sparkhammer Posts: 3239 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Steph, you seem to be repeating what Marrya is saying but...I don't know...you're still getting it wrong, I guess. First of all:
quote:Why are some of the other women ranting about the guy forcing penetrative sex on the girl.
Honestly, the only ranting I've noticed here is you. Nobody is "ranting" about the guy FORCING penetrative sex.
quote:He was kind and gentle and his partner said it wasn't THAT bad. In other words, she was a willing partner; not afraid, not NOT READY. She wanted it as badly as he did.
Yes, she WAS a willing partner. My guess is that they'd been together for quite a while before doing it too. What's the difference between waiting a few extra days when you're just dating as compared to a few extra days when you're newlyweds? If you've just gotten out of a wedding, chances are, you ARE stressed, overworked and tired. I haven't had a wedding myself, but I've helped plan and been in enough to know how much it takes out of you. If you're stressed and tired, it will be more difficult for you to relax which may make it hurt WORSE when you actually do it.
quote:Besides, that's still avoiding Maple Leaf's question about how painful it was for her the first time! 3-5 days later shouldn't affect the first-time pain, unless she was in a rodeo, riding bucking broncos right after the honeymoon!
If they'd never had ANY sexual experiences at all, yes, it WILL help. If they just "mess around" the first couple of nights, it can help "break her in", so to speak before they do the actual deed. They can also learn about each other and (like Marrya said) start taking cues from each other (oh = good, oooh = ouch). If two people with zero sexual experience just start "doing" it, it can be unnecessarily painful for the girl - just out of sheer inexperience.
quote:The original assumption, then is that both partners wanted to have sex right then and there. So, if BOTH partners want to have penetrative sex, what's the big deal? Why wait? Don't worry; be happy.
Marrya ALSO said something about this. She said if you're ready, fine, great! if Both partners want to do it...there's no discussion. But, if the female feels a little insecure and scared about how much it'll hurt (particularly someone with no penetration at all - some girls can't wear tampons until they have sex...they just won't go in), the guy should respect that and just "fool around" for a night or two until they're both ready.
-------------------- "I find them to be in contradiction of the basic principles of YOUR MOM!!!" -We've Got Mail Posts: 1361 | From: Muncie, IN | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by black roses 19: Yes, she WAS a willing partner. My guess is that they'd been together for quite a while before doing it too.
Indeed. 8 months.
-------------------- "For me, religion is like a rhinoceros: I don't have one, and I'd really prefer not to be trampled by yours. But it is impressive, and even beautiful, and, to be honest, the world would be slightly worse off if there weren't any." -Silas Sparkhammer Posts: 3239 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Sep 2003
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In the possible circumstance that a boy virgin and a girl virgin are chaste until marriage, a whole lot of pressures come into play on their wedding night.
There is the [obiviously] great pressure of common expectation that that's what the wedding night is for.
There is the un learning of past thought patterns: Yesterday, that was a no-no, today, all bets are off. [edit to link to Fowlplay's post on that subject
There is the nervousness of two individuals with little more than book learning to help them on their way. It's POSSIBLE that they are very familiar with what pleases their own self, and have acquired knowledge of what might please their spouse. But it's till a tad bit unknown.
Given those factors, I think it's entirely reasonable to suggest, some months before the wedding, that the couple talk frankly aobut their expectations, and together come up with a plan to get the absolute most out of their sex lives, right from the get-go.
Yes, it's a little counter-cultural to suggest that a couple might not rush straight into penetrative sex on their wedding night. Heck, these days, it's a little counter-cultural to suggest that a couple might really be virgins on their wedding night. That's not something that 'just happens' to a couple. It requires a lot of self-discipline, it implies a level of communication between the couple, and a shared intention to get the best out of their relationship, on all levels.
I just think that, having made such an effort to preserve an experience into the quote best environment for sex unquote that they finish the job properly. By learning and discovering together. By doing, with time and attention, all that fooling around that so many of us rushed to do in secret. By learning to linger over the rest of the sensory experiences. By finding out that there a zillion things to do when the penis is not inside the vagina.
There will be times in most married lives when this will be important information to know.
I can't put it any more plainly than that.
If that makes me an old lady, well, okay. But given the choice between "pop - Right we can tick that off the list. What's for supper" Or about a week of steady, uninterrupted, no boundaries, fooling around at leisure, with someone I trust fully, and to whom I can communicate about my concerns and delights....
Yep. Give me old lady sex over horny adolescent sex, any day!
-------------------- Windows cannot open this file. To open this file correctly, defenestrate, then try running the file again... Posts: 5383 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Thank you, Marrya. I really appreciate your suggestions and comments. We've been talking a lot about the subject, and while the idea of the *pop* still worries me somewhat, I think the idea of finally being able to do "that sort of thing" more than makes up for it. We're both, ahem, skilled with ourselves, but so far haven't gone beyond cuddling and kissing together...though I have been tied up and tikled to death several times.
I plan on talking to my gyno at my yearly in a few months about some of my fears, and to see if there's anything else I personally can do to get things ready down there. Sounds like that might be a smart thing to do.
-------------------- If my calculations are correct: SLINKY + escalator = endless fun! Posts: 317 | From: Illinois | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
You're welcome. And sorry for making you the poster girl
-------------------- Windows cannot open this file. To open this file correctly, defenestrate, then try running the file again... Posts: 5383 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Jan 2003
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Steph Summers
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales
posted
Excuse me. I'm very tired. I guess I'll just have to wait 3-5 days before I "penetrate the thread."
At the same time, I would hope that all of those women who have not been married stop philosophizing about what it's like on your honeymoon. Fantasyland doesn't cut it, Ladies. Go back to your magazines and theories. After you're married, you'll be able to better 'tell it like it really is.'
Posts: 141 | From: Newport, RI | Registered: Dec 2005
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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
posted
Seriously. What is your problem Steph?
-------------------- I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.
posted
Don't you people realize that you're only allowed to have opinions - indeed, thoughts - about things you have personally experienced first hand?
-------------------- Come on, come on - spin a little tighter Come on, come on - and the world's a little brighter Posts: 5595 | From: Columbus, OH : The Soccer Capital of America | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Nuclear Mosquito: I plan on talking to my gyno at my yearly in a few months about some of my fears, and to see if there's anything else I personally can do to get things ready down there. Sounds like that might be a smart thing to do.
One thing that can be done, NM, is to ask your GYN to surgically rupture your hymen -- no 'pop' on your wedding night. Many women who have never had penetrative sex do not have intact hymens for lots of reasons: tampons, sports, etc. It doesn't make you any less of a virgin if you're not injured the first time you have penetrative sex, so why not talk to your doc about it? Get the possible "owie" bit over with, give you both one less thing to worry about.
Four Kitties
-------------------- If swimming is so good for your figure, how do you explain whales? Posts: 13275 | From: Kindergarten World, Massachusetts | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:One thing that can be done, NM, is to ask your GYN to surgically rupture your hymen -- no 'pop' on your wedding night.
I'll just give a male perspective on that:
I agree. The potential pain that I might cause for the one I love on a time that should be special is something I would be happy to don't have to worry about (and seeing as this thread has misunderstood a lot I'll insert a disclaimer her that I'm only referring to "the pop", all normal common sense still applies to foreplay, being ready and all that stuff). Talk it over with your husband to be, it's very possible that he'll be as relieved as you at not having to cause you that pain.
-------------------- /Troberg Posts: 4360 | From: Borlänge, Sweden | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Nuclear Mosquito: I plan on talking to my gyno at my yearly in a few months about some of my fears, and to see if there's anything else I personally can do to get things ready down there. Sounds like that might be a smart thing to do.
Perhaps TMI. Anyway.
Definitely ask your gyno. I was very scared - I could barely use a tampon and the gyno had to use a pediatric sized specula for my examination - I couldn't relax. He recommended, and I've read elsewhere, good old-fashioned stretching. Sex should never be scary. IIRC we were not quite successful on our first attempt, but later that night went better. Wedding day was crazy and long, as was the week leading up to it. Being anxious does not help things at all.
-------------------- "Strength is the capacity to break a chocolate bar into four pieces with your bare hands - and then eat just one of the pieces." Judith Viorst Posts: 1082 | From: Luzern, Switzerland | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Troberg: I'll just give a male perspective on that:
I agree. The potential pain that I might cause for the one I love on a time that should be special is something I would be happy to don't have to worry about (and seeing as this thread has misunderstood a lot I'll insert a disclaimer her that I'm only referring to "the pop", all normal common sense still applies to foreplay, being ready and all that stuff). Talk it over with your husband to be, it's very possible that he'll be as relieved as you at not having to cause you that pain. [/QB]
I'm going to give another male opinion: I disagree. I've been holding off because I'm afraid every woman will hate me from here on out, but here it goes: phychologically, breaking hymen is a pleasure. There is just something about the actual act itself that I like. It may be just symbolism for being a virgin's first, and indeed if they hymen was not there and I was still her first, if would still be the same experience, but the "symbolic" hymen adds to it. Maybe it's because of man's desire to go where no man has gone before, maybe it's because if the women does have to experience pain, the man realizes she is willing to go through that for him, I really don't know as I'm not a phycologist. In short, as a man I like the idea of breaking hymen. Now please don't hurt me!
Posts: 10 | From: USA | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Troberg: I'll just give a male perspective on that:
I agree. The potential pain that I might cause for the one I love on a time that should be special is something I would be happy to don't have to worry about (and seeing as this thread has misunderstood a lot I'll insert a disclaimer her that I'm only referring to "the pop", all normal common sense still applies to foreplay, being ready and all that stuff). Talk it over with your husband to be, it's very possible that he'll be as relieved as you at not having to cause you that pain.
I'm going to give another male opinion: I disagree. I've been holding off because I'm afraid every woman will hate me from here on out, but here it goes: phychologically, breaking hymen is a pleasure. There is just something about the actual act itself that I like. It may be just symbolism for being a virgin's first, and indeed if they hymen was not there and I was still her first, if would still be the same experience, but the "symbolic" hymen adds to it. Maybe it's because of man's desire to go where no man has gone before, maybe it's because if the women does have to experience pain, the man realizes she is willing to go through that for him, I really don't know as I'm not a phycologist. In short, as a man I like the idea of breaking hymen. Now please don't hurt me! [/QB]
Before I break open your hymen, so to speak, what the hell is a phycologist?
-------------------- Officially Heartless Posts: 3065 | From: The Montgomery County of the West Coast- Berkeley, CA | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Well I'm no phycologist either Drewbert, but after reading your post I crossed my legs and threw up in my mouth a little bit.
-------------------- Me: "He's 19? Uh oh, I bought him a beer." A: "You contributed to the deliquency of a minor in drag!" "Sweet spell check: keeping drunks off the radar since 1995."- IND GodRe-AnimateGreenPorkBush Posts: 3986 | From: Illinois, jealous? | Registered: Nov 2005
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ThreeQuarks
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales
posted
quote:Originally posted by Drewbert: ... maybe it's because if the women does have to experience pain, the man realizes she is willing to go through that for him, I really don't know as I'm not a phycologist. In short, as a man I like the idea of breaking hymen.
If it's such a turn-on for the man that the woman is willing to undergo pain for him, what is the woman supposed to think when the man is so damned eager to cause her pain, that he would be disappointed if she took steps to ensure it didn't hurt? Why should she have to suffer to prove her love for someone who wants her to hurt?
Posts: 109 | From: Pittsburgh, PA | Registered: Aug 2005
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Drewbert, what would you say if I asked you to do the hibbity-dibbity with me, but told you I'd enjoy it more if I could punch you really hard in the face while we're doin' it, because the fact that you're willing to experience pain for me is a turn-on? Keep in mind I punch really hard, cupcake.
-------------------- Me: "He's 19? Uh oh, I bought him a beer." A: "You contributed to the deliquency of a minor in drag!" "Sweet spell check: keeping drunks off the radar since 1995."- IND GodRe-AnimateGreenPorkBush Posts: 3986 | From: Illinois, jealous? | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Honest to God, getting pleasure from breaking the girl's hymen? I was so scared of hurting her I was willing to forgo any pleasure on my end to make sure she wasn't in too much pain. Can she kick you in the balls after, if that's what gets her off?
-------------------- "For me, religion is like a rhinoceros: I don't have one, and I'd really prefer not to be trampled by yours. But it is impressive, and even beautiful, and, to be honest, the world would be slightly worse off if there weren't any." -Silas Sparkhammer Posts: 3239 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Sep 2003
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Steph Summers
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales
posted
I'm still tired...this is only day 2, so I'll wait to respond...but like these last half dozen entries, it's all very painful. Is pain good or bad? For him or her? Hymen or no hymen? Such 'burning' questions!
Posts: 141 | From: Newport, RI | Registered: Dec 2005
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-------------------- Windows cannot open this file. To open this file correctly, defenestrate, then try running the file again... Posts: 5383 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Well, this was the sort of response I was afraid of; so much for having a calm, rational discussion in which opinions were welcomed.
Posts: 10 | From: USA | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Drewbert, since you posted, you've had someone pick you up on your spelling, someone say that what you said makes them feel slightly ill, three people say they disagree with you, and Steph doing whatever it is she thinks she's doing. I'd hardly call that "lets all pile on Drewbert week". You said yourself:
quote:indeed if they hymen was not there and I was still her first, if would still be the same experience
So it appears that you are saying that if your partner were to be surgically devirginised it would not detract from your experience.
On one hand you say it makes no difference if the hymen is there or not, on the other you say that the loss of virginity should be painful for a female so as to add to the pleasure of the male. Do you see why some of us are finding it a little difficult to see it from your perspective?
quote:posted by Drewbert Well, this was the sort of response I was afraid of; so much for having a calm, rational discussion in which opinions were welcomed.
In my two posts responding to yours I have been calm and rational. What you said did, in fact, disgust me (and notice I said "what you said" not you yourself, as I don't know you), but I responded with calm thoughts and questions. Even though I said it in a kind of joking manner, my question was serious. If pain for one partner makes it better for the other partner, would that be acceptable to you? You say you'd like to pop a girl's cherry, I say I'd like to pop a guy in the face, how is that different?
-------------------- Me: "He's 19? Uh oh, I bought him a beer." A: "You contributed to the deliquency of a minor in drag!" "Sweet spell check: keeping drunks off the radar since 1995."- IND GodRe-AnimateGreenPorkBush Posts: 3986 | From: Illinois, jealous? | Registered: Nov 2005
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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV
posted
Isn't a phycologist someone that studies algae?
-------------------- I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.
posted
Okay, to go out on a limb here, I have to put my voice right behind Drewbert. Sex is truly a wonderful, awe-inspiring event... but for ME, sex with a virgin is earth-shattering, and can even make God tremble.
And we are not alone.
Look at male oriented porn. Why the HUGE emphasis on "YOUNG", "EAGER", "BARELY LEGAL" and the like? Because it sells - and sells well.
Very rarely will you have a guy dump his wife for an older woman... it is for the 19-25 year old "Damn, she's almost a virgin!" that he goes for! Sure, there are guys that like the older, more experienced lovers, but the numbers that desire virginal mates outnumber them (in my experience) manyfold.
Given the option, many men would make osh-osh with a virgin every time... unfortunately, once done, they don't qualify any more... so the very concept is flawed.
The idea of accepting the affections of a woman who is eager and inexperienced and introducing her to the pleasures that are out there are enough to make my knees shake. Drewbert is right about the "boldly going where no man has gone before" thing. For many of us, it IS quite a rush. Knowing that this woman will compare you to every man she will ever again have sex with is a VERY powerful aphrodesiac.
And Candy, plese keep in mind that for the vast majority, sex is NOT about hurting your partner. That is the goal in an encounter with a virgin... to make things as pleasurable as possible. If you have to use foreplay for hours and hours, it can only help! I am beginning to get the impression that you may well consider anything outside of sex-in-marriage-man-on-top-get-it-over-with-quick to be verbotten. If a guy that LIKES it can have sexual relations with a virgin, and she experiences NO pain, he wins - in more ways than just being "a nice guy".
Mayhaps you might lighten up a bit.
-------------------- Opinions aren't excuses to remain ignorant about subjects, nor are they excuses to never examine one's beliefs & prejudices...
Babies are like tattoos. You see other peoples' & they're cool, but yours is never as good & you can't get rid of it. Posts: 5622 | From: Jax, Florida | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
Malruhn, would it help or hurt to know that many women do not enjoy their first time?
-------------------- "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."--George Bernard Shaw Posts: 19266 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
Malruhn- I am well aware that many men find the concept of sex with virgins to be intoxicating. I am a little put off by that idea, because it makes me feel like my only worth was my virginity, and all of my knowledge and enthusiasm is nothing compared to doing it with a virgin. That is sad. I think it is sick that the desire to have sex with virgins makes men lust after barely-legals. Is it honestly so wonderful to be remembered forever?
And I don't think Candy does need to lighten up. She is asking if Drewbert thinks it's okay for one partner to hurt the other for their own pleasure. That is a perfectly fair question.
-------------------- Officially Heartless Posts: 3065 | From: The Montgomery County of the West Coast- Berkeley, CA | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Ach, to use an overused line, "They just didn't have the right man."
If you sleep with either an ass or an inexperienced man, I can see it hurting - and hurting like hell. Or, you may actually have a medical situation where, no matter what is done, it will hurt.
But, with a caring partner (like has been discussed ad nauseum), it SHOULDN'T hurt... or if it does, it will be VERY minimal.
Izzat more clearerly?
-------------------- Opinions aren't excuses to remain ignorant about subjects, nor are they excuses to never examine one's beliefs & prejudices...
Babies are like tattoos. You see other peoples' & they're cool, but yours is never as good & you can't get rid of it. Posts: 5622 | From: Jax, Florida | Registered: Nov 2003
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Many women who have never had penetrative sex do not have intact hymens for lots of reasons: tampons, sports, etc. It doesn't make you any less of a virgin if you're not injured the first time you have penetrative sex, so why not talk to your doc about it? Get the possible "owie" bit over with, give you both one less thing to worry about. 
