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Author Topic: Where do I look for a date?
Echinodermata Q. Taft
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Aud:
They complain about being nice guys who don't get dates. More than once I heard this back in my dating days and I was like "Hey, sitting right here!" They were treating me like they accused the girls they were attracted to of treating them. I was the shoulder to cry on.

Just as another note: this doesn't only happen to women.

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Barbara
Layaway in a Manger


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quote:
Originally posted by robbiev427:
So any guy who is nice is a dish rag?

That's not what you're being told in this thread. Rather, that fellas who continue to find themselves dateless characterize themselves as "too nice" whereas the gals they have unsuccessfully tried to woo would have labeled them "dish rags."

If that wasn't clear, here's another run at it: People tend to put self-positive spins on their failures. Ergo, guys who come across as clingy, whiny, obsessive or about as interesting as Jell-o come away from their failed dating attempts convinced that they're "too nice." Better to tell themselves that "Gals only want bad boys" which rules their "too nice" selves out than to face the fact that there is something in who they are or how they relate to others that stands in their way.

From what you posted (and this is without knowing you at all, so it's likely to be way off base), you're not dating because you're languid about it. In the case of the girl at the video store, you knew you were interested in her, yet you didn't ask her out. The fates were obviously supposed to deliver her to your doorstep rather than see you strike up a conversation with her along the lines of "I'm really looking forward to seeing Much Hyped New Movie when it comes out. Whaddya say you and me go see it together on the day it opens?"

Across the course of my existence I've known many fellas who blamed their being "too nice" for their dateless states. In every case, with not so much as one exception now coming to mind, each of those "too nice" fellas had flaws that stood out in plain view from a mile off.

Here's one example of the sort of schism of perception I'm talking about. One guy of my acquaintance ranted about politics or the bus service or TV shows or anything that happened to flash through his mind as his one and only form of conversation - he could do rant but nothing else. In his mind, he was a skilled debator who loved to chew over interesting ideas and who lived for intellectual challenge. In my mind, he was an overbearing bore. It was no wonder that women refused to have anything romantic to do with him, yet he was completely mystified by his ongoing dateless state. There he was, a guy prepared to cherish any woman who became his girlfriend, yet women appeared to flee from him - it just didn't make sense! And in his mind, it was all about his being "too nice," never about anything else.

Barbara "oftimes perception is deception" Mikkelson

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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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As usual, Barbara put it better then I possibly could.

I gotta tell you though my post wasn't meant to insulting so much as a smack from reality. See, I was Mr Nice Guy and it didn't work for me. But now I look back on those days and absolutely understand why nobody wanted to go out with me.

From my experience most women are attracted to confidence and repulsed by a lack of confidence. It's impossible to exude confidence when you are busy exuding "I'll do anything and by anything if you will like me".

I had this period in my life when I just exuded confidence from every pore and I can tell you I have never had so many women so very interested in me. It was down right uncanny, in a good way. Let me tell you that's a far better place to be.

I suggest you work on showing a more confident self-assured side of yourself, you will see results and you'll enjoy yourself a lot more in the process.

Beach...and I get recognized in public more often now too...Life!

--------------------
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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snopes
Return! Return! Return!


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quote:
In his mind, he was a skilled debator who loved to chew over interesting ideas and who lived for intellectual challenge. In my mind, he was an overbearing bore.
But she married him anyhow.

- snopes

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CatPurrson
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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I can actually relate to these guys. I'm seeing a pretty similar reaction from the female perspective. I'm always "just a friend", often enough to feel like I have the sex appeal of a used kleenex. I don't have the foggiest idea of where to go to meet decent single guys. Work is out of the question-- everybody knows the hazards of dating coworkers, plus I haven't met anybody I'd be interested in anyway. (Completely OT-- YAY! I have a job!!! [Big Grin] )

I don't really "do" bars. Too smoky, too noisy, just not my style. I'm very quiet and shy, and tend to, at best, be overlooked. My self-confidence is shaky at best, and non-existant at worst. My hobbies tend to be the sort that are done at home, alone. [Roll Eyes] (Like reading, surfing the 'net, crafts, etc.)

Somewhat OT, but is there some kind of "guy radar" that tells a man when a woman's "easy"? I've noticed since I was in junior high, that the girls who were most likely to put out were the ones who had guys flocking to them like bees to honey. Complete strangers, even, not people who'd know their reputation. These girls weren't necessarily even very attractive, but the guys were all over them. Heck, some were downright ugly!

What's always seemed funny to me is that I tend to get along better with men than women. This, despite the fact that I've always had a pretty good relationship with my mom and wasn't very close at all to my dad. I've always had lots of male friends-- even when I was a young kid, I only had one or two female friends and the rest were guys. Maybe *that's* the problem-- I'm always seen as "just one of the guys", I dunno.

I've almost resigned myself to a lifetime of being alone. Oh and that "it'll happen when you're not looking"-- not so. I spent a lot of years not looking, and nothing happened then and it still isn't happening now that I am looking again. I've even tried the online dating thing, and the only guys that seem interested are the ones that are well, a bit scary. Or just out for a roll in the hay. (I just can't treat sex that casually-- it's too risky in oh so many ways. I need to feel comfortable with someone first.)

And you know, it does often seem that the truly "nice" guys tend to go for the, for lack of a better term, "bitches". The women that'll cheat on them, lie to them, walk all over them, then laugh about it.

Oh, and Jaguar (and RobbieV) you guys *both* sound like the kind of guy *I'd* like to get to know better, from what I've read from you so far! [Big Grin] [Wink] [Embarrassed]

CatPurrson

ETA-- Just read Snopes's post--LOL [Big Grin]

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People who hate cats may have been rats in a previous life.

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Em
Happy Holly Days


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I think I'm CatPurrson's long-lost twin sister.

I'm "one of the guys". So much so that when the question of how many females worked in my department came up once (there were two of us in a section of 24), everyone initially said there was only one. It was a good couple of minutes before anyone remembered that I'm a girl too.

The few times I got all dressed up in girly clothes with makeup and stuff to go to a work function I usually got quite a reaction. [Smile]

Strangely, my most successful night for meeting people was when I had shaved my head for charity. I'm yet to work out what was so attractive about a tall skinny chick with no hair and a sunburned head.

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What the NFBSK does YOMANK mean?

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Jaguar
Jealous Mirugai


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The perspectives given so far have been very interesting and insightful - thanks to you all!

Although most people do consider me a nice guy i.e. courteous, compassionate, helpful, etc., I am far from a dishrag. I could never have accomplished the things that I have in my life (and especially in my business) if I were not strong willed, driven, and even, sometimes downright forcefull. You get in my way, challenge my authority or expertise and I WILL run you over. [Big Grin] The "bad boy" thing was something I noticed about some (many) of the relationships I see around me. Women have complained to me about the behavior of their man, and I find myself asking (to myself) "Then why the hell do you stay with them?". I'm certainly not going to stay with anyone who treats me like shit.

As to my OP, I haven't even started looking for a date, yet. Primarily the women I meet are work related and for me it isn't an option to ask any of them out, although there are those that are interested. Outside of work, my hobbies and activities are not the kind where I meet any women. They are "guy" things, like golf (very few women around, except the beer cart girls, who are the age of my daughter), or "alone" things, like photography.

The thought of going to a bar to "pick up" someone has zero appeal to me. I was looking for some suggestions of where else to go that available people would be.

My conclusion is to:

1. Expand my hobbies and leisure time activities to include more group type settings.
2. Open my eyes in my day to day off work time (running errands, etc.) to recognize who might be interesting.
3. Think about shaving my head for charity [Wink]

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Oualawouzou
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Although most people do consider me a nice guy i.e. courteous, compassionate, helpful, etc., I am far from a dishrag. I could never have accomplished the things that I have in my life (and especially in my business) if I were not strong willed, driven, and even, sometimes downright forcefull. You get in my way, challenge my authority or expertise and I WILL run you over. The "bad boy" thing was something I noticed about some (many) of the relationships I see around me. Women have complained to me about the behavior of their man, and I find myself asking (to myself) "Then why the hell do you stay with them?". I'm certainly not going to stay with anyone who treats me like shit.

But how do you relate to women you date? The "dishrag" comment isn't about how someone relates to the world at large; it's how this person relates to their significant other.

--------------------
Le champignon arrive.

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robbiev - singin' off key
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Barbara:
quote:
Originally posted by robbiev427:
So any guy who is nice is a dish rag?

That's not what you're being told in this thread.
In the thread in general, I agree, but someone stated:

"...women don't want a dish rag. Honestly, nice guys try so hard to please a women that they have no substance or form to define themselves as a person."

The statement wasn't "some nice guys" or "many nice guys" but just "nice guys" as a generality. I was merely stating that "all" nice guys aren't dish rags, as this statement might imply.

I could add to my previous statement, "I'm not nice because I'm trying to 'please women.' I just happen to have a nice personality." If they don't like that, well then, NFBSK 'em. (ok, THAT wasn't nice) [Big Grin]

Robbiev -but I'm a nice guy- 427

--------------------
Every time I see a good looking woman, I think, "0oooh. There's another one I'll never have!"

Corvette. The louder you scream, the faster I'll go.

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ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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I appreciate your positive attitude and willingness to learn. I think people were confused about the following part of your post because initially you were talking about your own dating problems and then you brought up the bad boy thing.

I think you should consider the possibility that the women you know are only talking about their boyfriends when they are upset with them. As in, Jane gets along with her boyfriend Joe most of the time, but sometimes they fight.. When they do, she calls you up to get some support. Thus, you only hear bad things about Joe.

quote:
Originally posted by Jaguar:

The "bad boy" thing was something I noticed about some (many) of the relationships I see around me. Women have complained to me about the behavior of their man, and I find myself asking (to myself) "Then why the hell do you stay with them?". I'm certainly not going to stay with anyone who treats me like shit.



--------------------
Officially Heartless

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robbiev - singin' off key
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Barbara:

From what you posted (and this is without knowing you at all, so it's likely to be way off base), you're not dating because you're languid about it. In the case of the girl at the video store, you knew you were interested in her, yet you didn't ask her out. The fates were obviously supposed to deliver her to your doorstep rather than see you strike up a conversation with her...

I'm not looking at my OP at the moment, but I didn't say I was interested in her. She was just someone who was nice to me when I came in the store. She is a lot younger than me and (I thought) she had a boyfriend, and I wasn't hoping the fates would intervene.

The whole thing about her coworker calling me and telling me she was interested took me completely by surprise, because, strictly speaking, she was just the clerk at the video store.

I did also post in my OP that this had happened to me three times in the last year, but all three times were instigated by another person, and all three times, it was not someone I was pursuing or hoping to pursue.

As far as being languid (quit using fancy words Barb! I went to public school! [Big Grin] ) I don't think I've ever been accused of that when I am actually pursuing someone. In fact, I've been accused of just the opposite.

quote:

Across the course of my existence I've known many fellas who blamed their being "too nice" for their dateless states. In every case, with not so much as one exception now coming to mind, each of those "too nice" fellas had flaws that stood out in plain view from a mile off.

I don't doubt I have flaws, and even though I posted some stuff in this thread, I don't blame me "being too nice" for me not getting dates. I know there are other reasons.

I was just simply agreeing with the fact that some (SOME, I'm saying) women do seem to like guys that aren't nice or that treat them bad.

--------------------
Every time I see a good looking woman, I think, "0oooh. There's another one I'll never have!"

Corvette. The louder you scream, the faster I'll go.

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I'mNotDedalus
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by CatPurrson:
Somewhat OT, but is there some kind of "guy radar" that tells a man when a woman's "easy"? I've noticed since I was in junior high, that the girls who were most likely to put out were the ones who had guys flocking to them like bees to honey. Complete strangers, even, not people who'd know their reputation. These girls weren't necessarily even very attractive, but the guys were all over them. Heck, some were downright ugly!

The girls/women you’re describing may have been of the whorish persuasion. From your vantage, this may seem logically so; but in another light, they may simply be more sociable than yourself (you did say you were relatively shy) or more doggedly seeking a date. Certainly, there are many men who would approach such women in hopes of only gettin’ into bed. But perhaps the “nice guy” stigma is reversed in your situation: where women who are attracting men are “easy” when compared to your own successes. I certainly don't mean to dourly criticize you, but is this another instance of frustrated perception? Of course, you did state that men, rather than women, populate your group of friends. Again, this may/may not have anything to do with your “ability” to attract men into more of an intimate relationship.


As I’ve come to learn: for the most part, there are no dating/gender rules. There is little guarantee that if a man/woman is X, they’ll be able to attract Y. There aren’t lighted spots that corral all the singles: the scope of probability is not limited to work, bars, or online dating. Hell, even the “nice guy/dishrag” scenario doesn’t completely peg anyone. People are ripe with nuance. Coincidence and probability create explanation: as is evidenced by many posts in this (and similar) threads, people discover their SOs in an infinite variety of locations without ever having spun the golden pick-up line or without displaying the “right” traits.

This is not to say that there is a complete lack of ritual or “common rules” about dating. But I would certainly contend that many couples met/relate without dancing to the common tune. One's proficiency with “Common Rules” or etiquette doesn’t necessarily relate to our ability to date: it’s more a reflection on how we communicate in every circle (And, again, how we communicate at school/work/etc does not define ourselves in every setting).

As for “you’ll find someone when you’re not looking.” This isn’t literally true, of course. Single people, who prefer not to be single, are, in fact, hoping/looking to be in a relationship. IMO, the quote refers more to the appearance of desperation: coming on too strong in any scenario during the introduction does generally scare people away.

Now, I may be accused of being too much of a relativist, of being too young. My only defense is that this is what I’ve witnessed in my own life, through my own actions and in my collection of hearsay.

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The salty fragrance of L’Eau D’I’mNotDedalus - made entirely of and entirely for sea turtles.

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Signora Del Drago
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Hang in there, Robbie. I married bad boy. Makes me appreciate my "Mr. Nice Guy" even more! He must have been too nice, also, because he was 32 when we got married. He's 66, now. Gads! I just realized we will have been married 35 years in June next.

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"This air we're breathing. Oxygen, isn't it?"~I’mNotDedalus, impersonating Vincent D’Onofrio.|"Sometimes trying to communicate can be like walking through a minefield."~wanderwoman
"Give people a break. It's not easy doing a life."~Joshua Halberstam

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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by robbiev427:
...I was just simply agreeing with the fact that some (SOME, I'm saying) women do seem to like guys that aren't nice or that treat them bad.

Or they like men who are who they are, if that means doing or saying things the women doesn't like, so be it.

But maybe you aren't the typical nice guy. Can you descibe what you mean when you call yourself a nice guy, compared to most other men you meet?

--------------------
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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robbiev - singin' off key
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
Or they like men who are who they are, if that means doing or saying things the women doesn't like, so be it.

Sure, that's definitely one possbility, but I still say some (and again, I'm saying some) women seem to like men who specifically treat them bad. As I sure most people do, I can think of plenty of examples of girls I knew that dated guys that cursed at them, called them names, screwed around on them, didn't call when they were going to be late or not going to be able to make it at all, made fun of them, (or even worse, forced sex on them), but the more the guy did it, the "in love" the girl claimed to be.

Always being the "friend," I was the one the girls always called when they wanted someone to talk to, and quite frankly, I got tired of it. I eventually had to tell one girl, "Well, you're not going to leave him and you're not going to change anything, so quit calling me and complaining about it. You've been calling me and complaining about it for 3 years now. I love you as a friend, but there's nothing I can do."

This particular girl said, "Oh, I can't leave him. I just love him so much" to which I would ask, "Well, you say he treats you like shit, never does anything nice for you, calls you a bitch every time he gets mad about any little thing even when it's not related to you, basically rapes you every time he wants sex and you told me he did that on your very first date and you had only known him a few days, couldn't care less about your birthday/anniversary/whatever, tells you he hates you, gets drunk every night and slaps you around, beats your kid, won't let you work a job but won't give you money, gets pissed off any time you want to go do anything on your own, but it's ok for him to come in a 5:00 the next morning without calling or so much as even giving any excuse other than, "Shut the NFBSK up and go back to sleep. I'm the man and I pay the bills, I'll come in any time I GD time I please," etc, etc. What exactly do you love about him?" And (in the case I'm referring to), the answer was, "I just love him so much."


quote:

But maybe you aren't the typical nice guy. Can you descibe what you mean when you call yourself a nice guy, compared to most other men you meet?

By nice, I simply mean I have a pleasant personality and I'm (apparently) a very pleasant person to be around (I have quite a few close female friends, just none of them have ever been interested in anything more, well, and two of them are my cousins) and I have a good sense of humor. I treat people with respect and everybody gets that same level of respect unless they give me a reason to not respect them.

I don't curse out waiters in restaurants, go off on people on the telephone because I had to wait 15 minutes for someone to pick up, etc. (I know lots of people who do, and I also know people (girls and guys) who think that's "manly" for some stupid-ass reason. Yeah, going off on someone who (basically) can’t do anything about it is real manly. Let’s see you go off on someone who’s liable to whip your ass. Oh, wait, you never do that. Only people behind counters and desks that basically can’t say anything for fear of being fired. If there are legitimate problems (other than with a person directly) that what managers are for.

I speak pleasantly to people I meet, and in general, I'm just nice to people. BUT, I'm not a dish-rag (to use someone else's term). I do not, nor have I ever, allowed people to walk all over me or to tell me what to do, nor am I a wuss or a pansy. I can definitely be aggressive if the situation calls for it.

I can tell that twice in my life, I have been told, "Oh you're a great guy. We're really good friends and I love your sense of humor and we really have a lot in common and I really enjoy being around you. But that's nothing to base a relationship on." I still don't know WTF that is supposed to mean. I guess I supposed to say, "Yeah, well, God forbid you have a relationship with someone that you like and have things in common with. How horrible that would be!" [Confused]

I’d rather the girl just say, “I like you ask a friend, but you’re not good looking enough for me to consider anything else” and yes, I really mean that. I told a girl that once, and she replied with exactly that answer, and it did not bother me one bit. I told her that I knew where I stood, and now we can get on with our friendship (and I’m still friends with her today).

I’ve actually been told once that since I wasn’t good looking, I didn’t deserve the same level of respect as a good-looking guy (yes those words, and about something that had no bearing on my looks). Someone else told me that it was ok if I called her, but not to text message her, because that cost 10 cents a message, and that was reserved for somebody that looked like Brad Pitt, and that since I wasn’t Brad Pitt or at least as good looking as Brad Pitt, she wasn’t willing to spend 10 cents a message to talk to me. Coincidentally, both of those women are married to good-looking guys that treat them bad. None of that really has anything to do with your question/statements, I just threw it in there.

I'll also say (even though you didn’t ask this exactly) I am very confident and I have never asked a girl anything like, “You wouldn’t want to go out with me would you? Uh, please?” I am very confident, I just get turned down.

And I'll add this too (I already said this too, but not in relation to your post):

I'm not blaming "being too nice" on ME not being able to get dates. I'm just saying some women like bad boys. My personal reasons for not being able to get dates are different.

--------------------
Every time I see a good looking woman, I think, "0oooh. There's another one I'll never have!"

Corvette. The louder you scream, the faster I'll go.

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robbiev - singin' off key
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by CatPurrson:

Oh, and Jaguar (and RobbieV) you guys *both* sound like the kind of guy *I'd* like to get to know better, from what I've read from you so far! [Big Grin] [Wink] [Embarrassed]
CatPurrson

Oh, if I just lived in SC! [Wink]

--------------------
Every time I see a good looking woman, I think, "0oooh. There's another one I'll never have!"

Corvette. The louder you scream, the faster I'll go.

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BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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Thanks for the clarification. Though I agree that some women apparantly like the bad boys, or at least like something about the bad boy, your examples are pretty extreme.

The number of women who would stay with and love a man who beats her own children is pretty slim. From my own experience men who yell and curse at service people are pretty rare as well. I don't know that I've ever run into that situation before.

Honestly the way you describe a nice guy, is just a man in my opinion. It could certainly define all the men that I now and definitely all the men who I consider friends.

From my experience there are women who are pretty much all about looks (and definitely men who are this way), but by and by women look a lot deeper in finding a mate. You don't need Brad Pitt's looks to woo women. I'm sure a far distance from that.

And still you seem to have all the signs of the 'nice guy'. The way you describe your relationships with women stinks of 'nice guy'. Your friendships with women pretty screams someone that women see as the 'nice guy who makes a great friend'. And I'm speaking from my own experience as that nice guy.

Even now, I have plenty of female friends, but those friendships are completely different compared to those I had when I was the nice guy. I don't think I can personally give much more advice other than, have you asked your female friends to tell you what it is? And you really have to ask them to give it to you straight. Chances are they'll just want to tell you how great you are as a guy and a friend until you push them for more.

Beach...I don't yell at service people, I flirt with them...Life!

--------------------
Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Robbie, that thing you are missing is called chemistry.

--------------------
I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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Tobermory
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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quote:
Originally posted by robbiev427:
Sure, that's definitely one possbility, but I still say some (and again, I'm saying some) women seem to like men who specifically treat them bad.

And some men specifically like women who treat them badly. And in both cases, I'm sure there are specific insecurities or fetishes or role models that caused the people to desire those kinds of relationships. But I don't think those cases are what this thread's about.

I think one of the best things you can do, if you feel you're consistently getting short-shrift from those you want to date, is try to increase your self-awareness. I've known many people who feel they can pin their datelessness on one characteristic. For every man I've known who claimed he was too nice where women all want bad boys, I've known a woman who claimed she was too smart where men all want bimbos. And in every case, these people were letting that knee-jerk analysis (the one that makes it someone else's fault they can't get a date) blind them to some things they could have changed that could have made them more attractive.

For just one example, I have a friend who has complained for years that she can't find a true love because she's too complicated for most men. She completely fails to see her real problem is that she's bats**t crazy and could make herself more attractive by staying on her meds.

Anyway, cliche as it sounds, confidence is key. I don't mean arrogance or "salesmanship," as someone else put it. But self-deprecation is almost certainly going to backfire.

----Tobermory

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robbiev - singin' off key
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
The number of women who would stay with and love a man who beats her own children is pretty slim.

Yes, I would hope so. Slim, but some still do.

quote:

From my own experience men who yell and curse at service people are pretty rare as well. I don't know that I've ever run into that situation before.

Agreed again. Rare, but I still see it. A few years ago, I was in a department store (Zayre to be exact, a store like Walmart or KMart, but they closed a few years ago). There were several lines open, but each line had 4 or 5 people in it.

Some guy walked up to an empty cash register and started yelling (and I mean bloody YELLING) "Service! I want service, GD it! I want service right this GD minute." He had one item in his hand. (I'm assuming) they didn't have any more cashier's avaiable. A manager (or someone) came out and tried to calm the man down, but he just kept yelling and they finally threw him out. Although it's irrelavent, he was a nice "looking" man dressed in a suit and tie.

Some years ago, I was with my grandmother (an elderly lady) in a grocery store. There were people backed up in every line except the express lane, which had no one in it. The girl checking at the express lane said, "I'll take you here ma'am" as we were walking by. We stopped and she started counting items. The girl said not to worry about it. Turns out we had 16 items (in a 15 item express lane).

Just as my gm was paying (and obviously about to leave in just moments), a guy walked up and got in the lane. The second he walked up, he said something like, "It's people like you that NFBSK-up the whole system for people like me. I can't believe you would get into the express lane with more than 15 items, " then immediately turned to the cashier and said, "It's amazing that some moron like you would allow somebody with more than 15 items to get into the damn line for 15 items or less. I can't believe how stupid you are." He then turned back towards my grandmother and reached out to touch her (to do what, I don't know).

I grabbed his arm and pushed him up against the counter and said, "Uhh, I'm not sure exactly what you think you're about to do, but if you think you're about to do anything physically to my grandmother, you're going to find your ass whipped in self-defense and in jail on charges tomorrow morning when you regain consciousness."

Immediately, he changed his attitude. "Oh, I'm sorry. I’m just a little upset because it's been a bad day" to which I replied, "Well, you haven't seen a bad day yet." About that time, a manager was there and asked what the problem was. I said to call the police so I could press charges against the man for physical assault, and immediately, he became a sniveling, whimpering pansy. “Oh, please….etc, etc.” Yeah, big and bad when you’re going to touch a 70 year old lady, but not so big and bad when someone who can whip your ass challenges you. Go figure.

The night before Christmas Eve this year, I was in a restaurant. They weren’t particularly busy, but there was only one waiter and he was running his butt off. Two ladies were sitting at a table just across from us, and had been there just a couple of minutes. The guy walked by our table and said, “I’ll be right with you sir” and he was headed to their table. When he got there, before he had a chance to say anything, one of the ladies started going off about having to wait 30 minutes (nowhere near 30, maybe 3, maybe) and how he was a horrible waiter, etc… He apologized and said that he was the only waiter there and he would serve them as fast as he could (he was at their table right then to take their order). She snapped back with, “Don’t argue with me GD it. Just take my GD order and bring me my GD food,” to which he replied he was ready to take their order right then. She said, “Just forget it” and got up leave. As they were leaving, she said (loudly) “I sure tore him a new asshole. I guess I showed him a thing or two.”

A few months ago I was at a small restaurant in Mississippi, it was Sunday afternoon right after church and they were packed. Some lady (at a table with about 25 people at it) ordered whatever, and she happened to be the last person at the table to be served when the plates came out, which apparently did not please her. She said to the waitress, “I can’t believe how bad the service is in the restaurant. You don’t have any idea how to be a good waitress. You served me last (well, hell, I thought, 25 people at the table, SOMEBODY has to be last). The girl apologized, but the lady said, “Forget it. I’m just going to take my kids and go somewhere else, and I’ll never be back to this damn place again!” The lady got up and left (without even saying anything to her friends at the table). The girl had her plate of food in her hand when the lady got mad and left.

A few weeks ago, I met some people at one of the busiest restaurants in one of the busiest parts of town during the holidays at 7:00 on a Saturday night. It was supposed to be 5 or 6 of us, but it turned out to be about 15 of us (long story). One of the people (that I did not know) got extremely irate with the hostess when she said it would be about an hour wait. Then, at about 50 minutes, it turned into a “we’ve been waiting two hours” argument. I stepped up and said, “We have NOT been here two hours. In fact, it hasn’t quite been an hour yet, and they told us it would be about an hour.” At that point, her husband (who I did not know either) said, “Why don’t you just shut up? You do this everywhere we go.”

I have been yelled at at businesses. I got yelled and cursed at one Christamas Eve because there was a line and a guy wasn't being waited on
fast enough. I've been yelled at on the phone because someone had to wait too long on hold.

Yes, all these things are annoying, but it's not (usually) the person's fault, and yelling only makes that person feel better. It does nothing to help the situation.

quote:

And still you seem to have all the signs of the 'nice guy'. The way you describe your relationships with women stinks of 'nice guy'. Your friendships with women pretty screams someone that women see as the 'nice guy who makes a great friend'.

Generally I would agree, but I can say this has happened to me several times:

Me: "Would you have dinner with me/movie/whatever (or similar statement)?"

Girl: "Yes."

A couple of dates later when trying to go a little further, I get, "Oh, I thought you meant just as a friend. I didn't know these were dates."

Ladies, I can tell you, if a guy asks you to go out with him, unless he specifies up front it isn't a date, or unless there are some other extenuating circumstances, he thinks it's a date. I'm a nice guy, but I don't just go around inviting people out, and then paying, just to be nice."

To be honest, that's where most of my female friendships started. I thought we were on dates, but they thought otherwise, and like some retarded idiot, I didn't know it until 3 dates in.

I can also assure you, when I was younger, I was NOT a nice guy. I was out to get laid, and that's about it, like some other guys are. I grew out of that stage (like most do) but still never had any luck.

I was also the guy that could never get dances in clubs and things like that (and I'm talking about from women who didn't know me.

Typical scenario:

Me: "Hi. Wanna' dance?" (nothing else said before this)
Girl: "No thanks. I'm here with some friends. We're just here to talk and socialize."
Next guy (as I'm walking off, still within earshot: "Hi. Wanna' dance?"
Girl: "Sure."

And that has happened to me on multiple occassions.

quote:

And you really have to ask them to give it to you straight. Chances are they'll just want to tell you how great you are as a guy and a friend until you push them for more.

I have done that, and I have pushed for more. There have been a couple of women that I really liked that I agressively pursued, but they just weren't interested in me. And I know what we're talking about, but I have asked on more than one occasion, and it's not the "nice guy" thing. Every time I have gotten a woman to tell me why they weren't interested, it came down to looks.

It comes down to, "I like you as a person, I'm just not physically attracted to you."

All that said, I am not feeling sorry for myself, nor, quite frankly, do I hardly care any more.

I assume I'll never get married because, now, at this point in life, I'm not trying any more. There came a point where I realized, "Holy NFBSK. It never works. Not ever. I really am that unattractive."

Such is life. Some people aren't good with power tools.

Robbiev -but I can do anything I want to, any time I want to, without answering to anybody- 427

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Every time I see a good looking woman, I think, "0oooh. There's another one I'll never have!"

Corvette. The louder you scream, the faster I'll go.

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Signora Del Drago
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by snopes:
quote:
In his mind, he was a skilled debator who loved to chew over interesting ideas and who lived for intellectual challenge. In my mind, he was an overbearing bore.
But she married him anyhow.

- snopes

I don't know if it's legal to do this to you, mr. snopes, but YOMANK!

--------------------
"This air we're breathing. Oxygen, isn't it?"~I’mNotDedalus, impersonating Vincent D’Onofrio.|"Sometimes trying to communicate can be like walking through a minefield."~wanderwoman
"Give people a break. It's not easy doing a life."~Joshua Halberstam

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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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I think you might have some sort of really different body language Robbie. Maybe take latin dance lessons, it really helped my friend learn how to communicate non verbally, which is where building chemistry starts.

ETA: And if you really think it is your looks and not your communication style or personality that is holding you back in the dating world, do something about that. Dress better. Get a more flaterring hairstyle, or more flattering glasses. How you look is something you can do something about.

--------------------
I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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Echinodermata Q. Taft
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by Echinodermata Q. Taft:
I don't want to take over the discussion with my peculiarities...

On the other hand, I wasn't hoping to be completely ignored, either. [Smile]

(Sorry, just that post-ego-scan disappointment when none of the following posts seem to recognize the existence of yours. Happens to everyone now and then.)

--------------------
http://eqtaft.blogspot.com

Hope for the future! http://www.runobama.com

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Signora Del Drago
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Echinodermata Q. Taft:
quote:
Originally posted by Echinodermata Q. Taft:
I don't want to take over the discussion with my peculiarities...

On the other hand, I wasn't hoping to be completely ignored, either. [Smile]

(Sorry, just that post-ego-scan disappointment when none of the following posts seem to recognize the existence of yours. Happens to everyone now and then.)

Happens to me a lot. In fact, I've killed quite a few threads. [Roll Eyes]

--------------------
"This air we're breathing. Oxygen, isn't it?"~I’mNotDedalus, impersonating Vincent D’Onofrio.|"Sometimes trying to communicate can be like walking through a minefield."~wanderwoman
"Give people a break. It's not easy doing a life."~Joshua Halberstam

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Christie
The Bills of St. Mary's


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quote:
Originally posted by Signora Del Drago:
Happens to me a lot. In fact, I've killed quite a few threads. [Roll Eyes]

Ah, a sure sign that you are now one of us [Big Grin] . Be afraid, be very afraid...you've been sucked into snopesland...there is no escape.

--------------------
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation. - Jean Kerr

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Jaguar
Jealous Mirugai


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[/QB][/QUOTE]I don't curse out waiters in restaurants, go off on people on the telephone because I had to wait 15 minutes for someone to pick up, etc. (I know lots of people who do, and I also know people (girls and guys) who think that's "manly" for some stupid-ass reason. Yeah, going off on someone who (basically) can’t do anything about it is real manly. Let’s see you go off on someone who’s liable to whip your ass. Oh, wait, you never do that. Only people behind counters and desks that basically can’t say anything for fear of being fired. If there are legitimate problems (other than with a person directly) that what managers are for.
I speak pleasantly to people I meet, and in general, I'm just nice to people. BUT, I'm not a dish-rag (to use someone else's term). I do not, nor have I ever, allowed people to walk all over me or to tell me what to do, nor am I a wuss or a pansy. I can definitely be aggressive if the situation calls for it.
with exactly that answer, and it did not bother me one bit. I told her that I knew where I stood, and now we can get on with our friendship (and I’m still friends with her today).
I'm not blaming "being too nice" on ME not being able to get dates. I'm just saying some women like bad boys. My personal reasons for not being able to get dates are different. [/QB][/QUOTE]

To wit!

THAT'S WAHT I'M TALKIN' ABOUT...


I'm with you Robbiev427

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Signora Del Drago
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Christie:
quote:
Originally posted by Signora Del Drago:
Happens to me a lot. In fact, I've killed quite a few threads. [Roll Eyes]

Ah, a sure sign that you are now one of us [Big Grin] . Be afraid, be very afraid...you've been sucked into snopesland...there is no escape.
Oh, boy, I'm one of us, now! [Big Grin] But, I'm not afraid of anything after that initiation. [lol]

Signora Del "doing the happy little Snoopy dance!" Drago

--------------------
"This air we're breathing. Oxygen, isn't it?"~I’mNotDedalus, impersonating Vincent D’Onofrio.|"Sometimes trying to communicate can be like walking through a minefield."~wanderwoman
"Give people a break. It's not easy doing a life."~Joshua Halberstam

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Jaguar
Jealous Mirugai


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I;m still not getting an answer here, I just read "Green River Running Red" by Anne Rice...
Gary Ridgeway went to PWP ... Parents Without Partners...looking for dates...

Where do I go that is not this creepy?

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Johnny Slick
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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I don't know if you've noticed, Jaguar, but people in the Pacific Northwest - Seattle especially - tend to be a bit stand-offish in general. Someone opined to me once that it's all the serial killers we get up here (Ridgeway, Ted Bundy, that dude who offed Captain Crunch). Personally, I think it's because most of us are antisocial a-holes (myself included!). Anyway, I'm guessing that "where you go that's not that creepy" is "a city other than Seattle". Sorry to have to tell you this.

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Give big space to the festive dog that makes sport in roadway. Avoid entanglement of dog with wheel spokes.

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glisp42
I'm Dreaming Of A White iPod


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My problem is that I was raised in a very feminist household. I'm afraid to make the smallest move that could be construed as sexual harrasement. I get no dates, though I am a pretty good looking guy. I get slotted into the friend catagory very quickly because I never make any kind of move.

I don't drink very much so I hate going to bars, I hate the pretentious people that comes with hanging out at coffee shops so I'm kinda screwed.

My dating life is a work in progress. 0 for 0 so far.

ETA: I forgot to mention that I have absolutly NOTHING in common with the girls my own age.

glisp"paging Mrs. Robinson"42

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What does "Bookachow", "YOMANK" and other lingo mean?

And we'll collect the moments one by one I guess that's how the future's done. -Feist

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unbroken
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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I don't think I have the energy for this discussion, but I gotta say that the below is a self-fulfilling prophecy if ever I heard one.

quote:
Originally posted by glisp42:

ETA: I forgot to mention that I have absolutly NOTHING in common with the girls my own age.



--------------------
Oddly enough, the island of Ireland looks remarkably like a small old man driving an old Ford Fiesta.

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yogi cat
I Saw Three Shipments


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Someone told me something recently that took a while to sink in but seemed (weeks later) to be painfully true.
She said that if you find yourself constantly attracted to people who have the same problem that needs to be fixed, it is because you are not looking at that problem in yourself. Then she proceeded to tell me that if they all didn't have the same problem on the surface, I might want to look at the common basis of those problems--not always so obvious. Sounds goofy, I know.
I am not about to try to analyze everyone (especially since I don't really know any of you), but some of Robbie's posts jump out at me because I saw the same thing happening with my cousin.
I notice that it started out as a "nice guy" thing but turned into a "good looking" thing--good looking guys acting like jerks, girls wanting more "attractive" guys. I have to wonder what criteria you use when you are deciding whether or not you are interested in a girl.
"I did also post in my OP that this had happened to me three times in the last year, but all three times were instigated by another person, and all three times, it was not someone I was pursuing or hoping to pursue"
Did you give them a chance beyond the chance a girl in a bar gives you when you ask her to dance and she just says 'no' (until the "attractive" guy comes along)?
Are you looking for girls that are really attractive in the sense that most guys think they're "hawt"? Because I know a lot of those girls, and they want guys that are "hawt" like them or have a heck of a lot of money--preferably both (regardless of how they act).
I may be completely out in space on this particular case (I often am), but have you thought about looking at girls that are different from what you are attracted to as a rule?
It is hard to see when we are expecting other people to let go of standards we are holding on to ourselves. In my case it wasn't the "attractive" thing, but something just as hard to let go of.
And the happy ending: when my cousin finally (after much agonizing) let go of the "hawt" thing, he found an absolutely wonderful woman to whom he is now married. They have a really great relationship--and as someone who has known him for 35 years, I can say he has made a lot of great changes since he has been in that relationship (even though he was great to begin with).

--------------------
We criticize a thinker more sharply when he presents us with a displeasing proposition; and yet it would be more reasonable to do this when his proposition pleases us.
--Nietzsche

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Bach_girl
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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If you want something you have never had, you must first do something you ahve never done. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Those are quotes- I don't remember who said them though.

I dated my DH because he was the exact opposite of every guy I had ever dated. I met him online.

--------------------
"My Very Educated Mother Just Said Uh-oh! No...Pluto..."~ Steven Colbert

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Casey, making hot chocolate
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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quote:
Originally posted by unbroken:
I don't think I have the energy for this discussion, but I gotta say that the below is a self-fulfilling prophecy if ever I heard one.

quote:
Originally posted by glisp42:

ETA: I forgot to mention that I have absolutly NOTHING in common with the girls my own age.


It is, and it isn't, both at the same time. I have precious little in common with the typical girl in their 20s. I'm a bookworm and an outdoorsman, and those are two things all too rare. I found one (and in so finding, found the love of my life), but it took... well...

I'll let a song quote say it best. [Smile]

quote:
*snip* I had to open up a lot of oysters before I found myself a pearl
I had to kiss a lot of frogs to find my grass was green enough
had to be face down in the gutter to see what is and isn't love

Then I woke from all the dreaming to your taste and to your laughter
I cried till I was dry and now live my ever after
I believe I always knew

When you find the one
There's no question in the silence
All is said and done when you find the one
When you find the one

Don't limit yourself to an age, try first searching for what you like. My parents are 9 years apart in age, my GF and I are five. Age doesn't matter, but finding that one someone does.

--------------------
"To be or not to be! That is the question! Now, will you answer, dare, double dare, or take the Physical Challenge?" --Mark Summers as Hamlet
Countdown: 177 days and counting... or less. My blog. 14 keyboards owed.

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Echinodermata Q. Taft
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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quote:
Originally posted by glisp42:
My problem is that I was raised in a very feminist household. I'm afraid to make the smallest move that could be construed as sexual harrasement.

I had a slightly parallel problem to this. My second girlfriend was both an ardent feminist and extremely paranoid about being raped (and very vocal about it). She also was, and to the best of my personal knowledge still is, a virgin, and determined to stay that way for a while. We went out for two years, and I never did feel like she completely trusted me, even though we actually shared a bed on at least one occasion with her virtue remaining intact. Myself, I was willing to wait if she wasn't ready, but once she told me she felt she could die a virgin and not feel like she had missed anything; that was definitely a contributing factor in our breaking up, as that is certainly not the way I feel about it.

The problem was, the next girl I went after was completely different, expected and I think preferred much more aggressive behavior from men; but I was still in "don't touch anything without explicit verbal permission" mode. That was one of the main reasons that went nowhere.

These days, I honestly have no idea how to initiate a relationship, or try to pick someone up, or anything of the sort.

--------------------
http://eqtaft.blogspot.com

Hope for the future! http://www.runobama.com

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