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Author Topic: Where do I look for a date?
Jaguar
Jealous Mirugai


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There's no relationship forum so I'm posting this here.

I have learned a lot from my ex's in terms of relationships, and after four years I am ready to find someone truly special.

I have heard nothing but horror stories of online dating and relationships with women my age (40).

So, I am at a loss as to where to look! If you were me, where would you go to find the "perfect soul mate"?

I am the "nice guy", the "steady Eddie", the "take care of everything and everyone", the "fixer of problems" type that seems to not be wanted by anyone.

Women seem to want a "bad boy", but I'm not that!
You're "just too nice" has been the break up line I have heard much too often...

Where can I find someone who wants someone who will take care of her, yet let her be her own person; provide for her, yet let her make her own way in the world;... well, you get the idea...

Snopsters, help!

Where did you find your "one"?

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Jackie in the Elevator
Happy Holly Days


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As cliche and glurgy as it sounds, I would stop looking. You are destined to find the one when you don't expect to.

--------------------
Free the West Memphis Three

Why are these cases still unsolved?

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Ovalescent
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by Jaguar:
Where do I look for a date?

A calendar!

Honestly, though, Jackie is right. I'd never even had a boyfriend (or a SINGLE DATE) before I met the man who eventually became my husband. We were just internet friends when we started out, and we became closer after I helped him through a rough breakup with his (now ex-) fiancee.

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"You're all suffering from trauma because it was so boring in the womb!"

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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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If the women you are going after seem to want a bad boy, you might need to re-evaluate what you are looking for in a woman. There are plenty of women that want a steady dependable guy.

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I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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Minstrel gone caroling
Let There Be PCs on Earth


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Rhi's advice is definitely worth thinking about.

I would add, don't be so quick to discount meeting someone online, either. There are some goofballs out there, but sometimes it works. Just like any other way of meeting people. [Smile]

--------------------
Last year's goat was burned down by vandals dressed up as Santa Claus and the Gingerbread Man. They were never caught.
My blog. The Adventures of the Fish O'Thwacking.
Countdown: 177 days (or less!)

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Jaguar
Jealous Mirugai


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quote:
Originally posted by Rhiandmoi:
If the women you are going after seem to want a bad boy, you might need to re-evaluate what you are looking for in a woman. There are plenty of women that want a steady dependable guy.

It's not that I'm going after that type. I just noticed that quite a few of the women I meet are in these relationships with guys that just aren't nice. But they seem to want to stay with them...
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I saw Mommy kismet Santa Claus
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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Here's what I did, in addition to stop looking. I asked myself, if I were to be single forever, what would make me truly happy? Then I went and did those things. I adjusted my hobbies and my social life to maximize my own enjoyment. In so doing, I surrounded myself with the kinds of people I would date and the kinds of people who would know someone I would date. It changed the kind of potential dates I met significantly. The next man I dated, I married. If it hadn't worked, I would at least have been happy and fulfilled as a single person.
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murmurzz
I'll Be Home for After Christmas Sales


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I met my hubby at a bar. [Cool]

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www.myspace.com/murmurzz <--- psst, I need friends. Bad.

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robbiev - singin' off key
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quote:
Originally posted by Jaguar:
It's not that I'm going after that type. I just noticed that quite a few of the women I meet are in these relationships with guys that just aren't nice. But they seem to want to stay with them...

I have noticed that also. Some women don't like nice guys, or don't seem to.

I have notice this in my personal experiences: women routinely say they are looking for a nice guy who has a good sense of humor, and I think that they think they really mean it, but what they really mean is, "A nice guy who has a sense of humor who is really good looking and has a really good job."

I can't tell you how many times I've been told I was nice and had a good sense of humor, but then the obligitory addition, "Oh, but I'm not interested in going on a date with you."

I have truly come to believe that "I like you as a friend" means, "You're too ugly for anything else."

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Every time I see a good looking woman, I think, "0oooh. There's another one I'll never have!"

Corvette. The louder you scream, the faster I'll go.

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BlueByrd
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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You sure you're a Nice Guy? Cause if you are, and it does sound like you might be, you might not want to advertise the fact.

ETA: I'm looking at you too, Robbie.

Blue "Hey, cheer up, even Mike got lucky in the end, IIRC" Byrd

--------------------
"A monster!"
"A local!"


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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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quote:
Originally posted by Jaguar:
quote:
Originally posted by Rhiandmoi:
If the women you are going after seem to want a bad boy, you might need to re-evaluate what you are looking for in a woman. There are plenty of women that want a steady dependable guy.

It's not that I'm going after that type. I just noticed that quite a few of the women I meet are in these relationships with guys that just aren't nice. But they seem to want to stay with them...
Well you did say that you were on the recieving end of the "You're just too nice" line, so I think in some ways you are going after those types. Or you really are "too nice."

I have a friend that tended to go overboard being nice to the point that he was a major drip. After a really nice girl broke up with him for being "too nice" I gave him dating training. Basically he needed a little bit more confidence in his ability to hold his own in conversations (he would make them direct nearly all conversations), some dance lessons (a fun coed activity), and a system of checks and balances to make sure that he wasn't smotheringly nice. It seems to be working for him, he started dating a girl shortly after we finished dance lessons and he only had a few close calls on smothering in the beginning which he did ask for outside opinions on (innappropriately extravagent gifts) but he got the hang of it after about 5 or so dates and they have been going together for about a year now.

--------------------
I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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This one was my friend only instead of jamming a stick up his butt, I made him take dance lessons.

Blue Byrd, that site is amazing.
This one is right on.

--------------------
I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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Aud
We Three Blings


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I've tried to codify what I call Nice Guy Syndrome.
One of the traits is only being attracted to women who are a little bit slutty (and only attracted to bad boys.)

They complain about being nice guys who don't get dates. More than once I heard this back in my dating days and I was like "Hey, sitting right here!" They were treating me like they accused the girls they were attracted to of treating them. I was the shoulder to cry on. But you should have seen them come running when my reputation was sullied by rumor.

There is often a devotion among nice guys. They love their football, or video games or something. They have not learned to balance hobbies and a social life. They'll say things like "I'm not giving up x for some girl." Can you see how a woman would not want to insert herself into that situation.

The solution to being the "nice guy" is to be a man.
A man has balance between work, home, hobbies etc.
Do as Jackie says and engage in thing you enjoy but if you see that the people around you are monolithic - all guys, all nerds, all sports fanatics, or even all women you might need to spread your wings a bit and try something new.

Granted I began this discription when I was in my early twenties. It might be different for 40 year olds.

As for where to look - I'm not sure. I met the DH thorugh a hobby we both enjoy but I've seen other singles in this hobby not find the right person and not be sure where to go next. Some of them find looks a little further afield geographically.

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Magdalene
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Aud:
I've tried to codify what I call Nice Guy Syndrome.
One of the traits is only being attracted to women who are a little bit slutty (and only attracted to bad boys.)

They complain about being nice guys who don't get dates. More than once I heard this back in my dating days and I was like "Hey, sitting right here!" They were treating me like they accused the girls they were attracted to of treating them.

Or they date the girls who are bitches, and they know it....but yeah, I'm with you.

Something else about self-proclaimed 'nice guys' that I've noticed from personal experience--they like to lay 'in-advance' guilt trips on you. They moan about how women are just out to take advantage of them (because they want you to tell them repeatedly that YOU'D never do any such thing)....well, if I'm getting the guilt trip without the dating, then why would I *want* the dating?

Self-proclaimed nice guys scare me. Guys who are nice and don't feel the need to point that out to the world are the ones I want. (Sadly, there's a lot of smart women out there who've already taken them!)

Magdalene

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"Don't mess with me. I dance with swords."

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robbiev - singin' off key
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Bretzl Byrd:

ETA: I'm looking at you too, Robbie.

Well, it's easy to say because we're talking about it here, but I'm not the "nice guy" referred to on that web page. I'm just a guy nobody's interested in, but I happen to be nice. And that's ok. I'm not bitching about it or hoping anyone will feel sorry for me. We just happen to be talking about it.

At one time or another, (without me bringing it up) all of my female friends have said to me, "I can't believe you're not dating anyone. You're such a nice guy, any girl would be glad to have you. Oh, well, no, I'M not interested in you that way, but I'm sure someone is."

Oh well, such is life. That's why I have lots of hobbies to keep me busy.

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Every time I see a good looking woman, I think, "0oooh. There's another one I'll never have!"

Corvette. The louder you scream, the faster I'll go.

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Online dating can work, if you approach it correctly. I've known several people who've met some nice folks that way, and one friend of mine met her husband that way.

I think the "Nice Guys" website posted abvoe makes some good points. I know that sometimes when a woman says is a guy is "too nice" it means she thinks he's trying too hard, or coming on too strong. That can be intimidating.

I've also had Aud's experience of listening to guys say that women don't want nice men, while those same nice men are ignoring me.

As for the "stop looking" advice, I stopped looking years ago. I still haven't found anyone, but I hated the looking part ("dating") anyhow.

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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Sir Weasel
I'm Dreaming of a White Sale


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I met my "signficant other" via an online dating service almost 6 years ago, just after I turned 50 and after a miserable marriage and several crummy relationships. The past few years have been the best of my life. This worked out, I think, because of the following:

1) Both of us were actively looking for "someone." She was a widow and I was divorced. I'm sure that people do meet each other by accident when they are not "looking" but this was not the case here.

2) We have similar interests and backgrounds. For me, I don't believe "opposites attract." I think similar interests and backgrounds do.

3) Look at birth order. Sounds silly but we are both the baby in the family. After we were dating, we both realized that we had both had bad times with the "first born." In looking back on our experiences, the best was with the "baby" of the family or the "second baby."

4) Approach your search like you would if looking for a job or a new house. Sounds cold, but you are looking for someone (hopefully) with a certain age, body type (perhaps), income, or whatever factors you feel are important. You'd want certain things in a job or house and you would not settle for less. Why do so with a "SO?"

5) If looking online, avoid the cliches. I never gave a second look to women who said they liked, "quiet times at home, walks along the beach, and dining out." Who doesn't. Women who like these things--and these things only--are apt to be dull persons.

Just my $0.02.

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robbiev - singin' off key
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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[\slight hijack]

Question for the women here:

Suppose a guy frequents a store and there is a female employee he sees most every time. She seems to always go out of her way to speak to the guy. He speaks to her and makes conversation, but never asks her out or pursues her because it never occurs to him she doing anything other than just being nice because she works there.

After trip 4 or 5 to the store, girl's coworker calls guy at home (it's video store, so they have his phone number) and says girl is interested in guy, but was too shy to say anything to him in the store.

Guy talks to girl next day in the store and she offers her phone number before he even asks for it. She says to call her the next day because she has to see what time she gets off work and then they can plan a date.

Guy calls the next day and is immediately told she decided she didn't want to go out with him. [Frown]

This (or almost the exact same thing) has happened to me 3 times in the last year, and I am absolutely not trying to get phone numbers. All three of the situations were initiated by someone else. In fact, one of the situations was someone blindly telling me she thought I was interested in a particular girl and when she mentioned it to that girl, the girl said, "Yes, I would go out with him if he asked" but when I asked a day or two later, she said no, and won't even speak to me now, like it pissed her off. She even acknowledged (to me) that she told the other girl she would say yes.

So here's the question:

What's all that about? What can change in one day to go from "she wants me to ask her out" to "she decided she doesn't want to go" when we haven't even discussed anything or even spoken since the night before? Any ideas?

--------------------
Every time I see a good looking woman, I think, "0oooh. There's another one I'll never have!"

Corvette. The louder you scream, the faster I'll go.

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Rhiandmoi
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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It is possible that the shes are embarrassed and it is easier to ignore you than face the embarassment.

They could be embarassed because:
1. They were kidding about going out with you
2. They were serious about going out with you but think you are only asking them because they look/act/sound desperate/easy.

--------------------
I think that hyperbole is the single greatest factor contributing to the decline of society. - My friend Pat.

What is .02 worth?

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Lainie
Ding Dong! Merrily on High Definition TV


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Wow, Robbiev, that is weird. Stuff like that is why I don't date.

When I started reading your description of how the girl acted, I thought "Yes! Ask her out!" Then the story took that weird turn.

Maybe the third person was messing with you and/or the girl, although I don't know why anyone outside of 8th grade would do that.

Does it help at all to know that this woman, at least, is just as mystified by all this stuff as you are?

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How homophobic do you have to be to have penguin gaydar? - Lewis Black

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hoitoider
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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I definitely know what robbiev427 is saying. I've had someone give me their number and/or e-mail unsolicited, perhaps b/c I'm a regular customer at their work or I happen to meet them somewhere. We have one or two enthusiastic phone calls or e-mail exchanges, then I never hear from them again and we never go out. If I see them again they never have anything to say about what happened, but they're not rude. It beats me what turned them on in the first place and why it got turned off so quickly.

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No man has a right in America to treat any other man "tolerantly" for tolerance is the assumption of superiority. -Wendell L. Willkie

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robbiev - singin' off key
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Lainie:

Maybe the third person was messing with you and/or the girl, although I don't know why anyone outside of 8th grade would do that.

Same thoughts here. One of people that did it to me is 41 or 42 years old. I hope she wasn't messing with me, but who knows?

quote:

Does it help at all to know that this woman, at least, is just as mystified by all this stuff as you are?

Yes it does. [Smile]

ETA (although only moments later):

It's weird to me too. One thing that was particularly weird about it is, I don't date much, hardly ever, and I never try to get phone number of women I meet, cause it never used to work.

Then, suddenly, this happened to me, all within a few weeks or each other, and all three incidents were unrelated to each other. Kind of disappointing. [Frown]

Robbiev -holy cow, why am I still up at midnight?- 427

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Every time I see a good looking woman, I think, "0oooh. There's another one I'll never have!"

Corvette. The louder you scream, the faster I'll go.

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Johnny Slick
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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quote:
Originally posted by Rhiandmoi:
It is possible that the shes are embarrassed and it is easier to ignore you than face the embarassment.

They could be embarassed because:
1. They were kidding about going out with you
2. They were serious about going out with you but think you are only asking them because they look/act/sound desperate/easy.

3. She could be a lesbian. In fact, that's probably what's going on. Most women I meet nowadays are lesbians. I mean, they roll their eyes and say "sure" after the 14th or 15th time I ask them that question. Why would they lie?

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Give big space to the festive dog that makes sport in roadway. Avoid entanglement of dog with wheel spokes.

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Troberg
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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I have a much simpler advise, in fact the only tactic that has worked for me:

Let the woman drink you under the table. I seldom drink, but for some reason, everytime I meet a women at some place where alcohol is present and let her get me drunk (but don't overdo it), relationship follows.

Wierd, but it works.

If that fails, you can always try to throw yourself on the ground, hang on to her leg and make puppy sounds until she relents. I usually refer to this as plan B.

If that fails, try to eat your own foot and hope that she'll take you out of pity. This is plan C.

The rest of the alphabet gets pretty desperate, luckily I have never needed to proceed to plan B...

quote:
What's all that about? What can change in one day to go from "she wants me to ask her out" to "she decided she doesn't want to go" when we haven't even discussed anything or even spoken since the night before? Any ideas?
You said it was a video store? You didn't rent anything from the really wierd shelf of the adult section, did you? That could explain it.

I've recieved similar mixed messages. What do you do when the question about further contact is responded to with "Maybe" and nothing else? Not once, but at three occasions. After the third time, I just gave up, no need to continue to humiliate oneself.

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/Troberg

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Oualawouzou
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Regarding rob's scenario: always assume it'll end badly when someone tries to "set you up" with someone else. I've known a few people like this who enjoy getting people together. They genuinely believe they're making people happy: in fact, they're making people miserable. They take a passing "I'd hit that" look, blow it up to a huge love-at-first-sight, then bug both people involved until they go out together. Usually, the one deemed "too shy" gets the blunt of her efforts. (non-denominative "her", but I've seen this behavior in women much much more than in men, so I'll use "her"...) If that person is convincing enough, the "too shy" person will initiate the relationship or accept the possible partner's attempts to initiate the relationship because:

1) this way, the annoying "friend" will shut up;
2) the person is actually feeling guilty of not really being in love and is being pressured, directly or indirectly, to ask you out;
3) is actually too shy... Not too shy to ask someone out: too shy to tell the friend to shut the NFBSK up.

If you are interested in someone, make the first step. If you someone approach you, enjoy. If you get the feeling a third party initiated all this, run. If you are indeed interested, let the dust settle, once the "friend" is off to match two other people together, then start over from the beginning as if the "friend" had never done anything.

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Le champignon arrive.

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Bettie Page Turner
Happy Holly Days


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quote:
Originally posted by Oualawouzou:
Regarding rob's scenario: always assume it'll end badly when someone tries to "set you up" with someone else.

I must politely disagree. I was set up by my friend on a blind date 6 years ago. I've been happily married to Mr. Blind Date for 4 years now. [Smile]

Just like any information you get, consider the source and the source's motivation. If the source and motivation are good, then accept a set up. If you even remotely question the source or their motivation, give it a pass.

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You fail to consider, for such is the tyranny of fashion, that the swan is not a slim animal... -Jincy Kornhauser, Melinda Falling

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Oualawouzou
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Apologies to BGK, I should have been more specific. I fully agree with your addition about the source. A good friend is a way to meet nice people. A stranger trying to match you with another stranger is scary.

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Le champignon arrive.

Posts: 4372 | From: Quebec | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
ThistleSoftware
Little Sales Drummer Boy


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Jaguar: As someone who has actually told one or two guys that they were too nice, let me explain what I meant. I don't need someone to help me or fix me or always be there for me. I do need someone who seems tough enough to not be hurt by my snide comments or occasional grumpiness.

Therefore, if someone says you are too nice, assume that what they really mean is that they are too mean. [Smile]

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Officially Heartless

Posts: 3065 | From: The Montgomery County of the West Coast- Berkeley, CA | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
BeachLife
The Bills of St. Mary's


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We've been through the 'too nice' and nice guy stuff before. And I've put this a lot nicer, but it really comes down to the fact that most women want a man, not a dish rag. Honestly, nice guys try so hard to please a women that they have no substance or form to define themselves as a person. It's hard to be attracted to an amoeba.

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Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone.
Jack Dragon, On Being a Dragon
Confessions of a Dragon's scribe
Diary of my Heart Surgery

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Aptenodytes_Forsteriis
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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As a man who has ended up in the "nice guy" "just want to be friends" category a couple of times, I have decided that this categorization means that I tried too hard. I am not normally regarded as "too nice" in my work or with friends and family. In fact I am actually a sarcastic, often acerbic SOB. However, as is often the case, I tend to go too far the other way when I really love someone. So I bend over backwards to always say the nice thing, do the favor, plan the pleasant surprise and it comes across as desperate (and a little patronizing.) I have recently come to realize that my behavior toward these women was very much the way I behave toward small children and that this overly protective set of behaviors probably came across (given my smart mouth toward everyone else) as phony, or weak, or patronizing. So now I have to figure out a way to keep my sarcastic self on a leash of the correct length so I don't snark a woman away, or syrup her to death.

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'Hello, assorted humanoid strangers. You are standing casually in our forest. This bewilders us.' Blatherskite

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Oualawouzou
Angels Wii Have Heard on High


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Find a snarky woman. [Razz] Snarky people always like to snark at each other for training!

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Le champignon arrive.

Posts: 4372 | From: Quebec | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
Aptenodytes_Forsteriis
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by BeachLife:
We've been through the 'too nice' and nice guy stuff before. And I've put this a lot nicer, but it really comes down to the fact that most women want a man, not a dish rag. Honestly, nice guys try so hard to please a women that they have no substance or form to define themselves as a person. It's hard to be attracted to an amoeba.

Beach, amoebae don't care if you are attracted to them or not. They can handle things all by their two selves.

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'Hello, assorted humanoid strangers. You are standing casually in our forest. This bewilders us.' Blatherskite

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Aptenodytes_Forsteriis
We Wish You a Merry Giftmas


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quote:
Originally posted by Oualawouzou:
Find a snarky woman. [Razz] Snarky people always like to snark at each other for training!

and then we can raise little Damien up right

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'Hello, assorted humanoid strangers. You are standing casually in our forest. This bewilders us.' Blatherskite

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robbiev - singin' off key
Happy Xmas (Warranty Is Over)


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quote:
Originally posted by Oualawouzou:
Regarding rob's scenario: always assume it'll end badly when someone tries to "set you up" with someone else.

I would kind of agree, now. I haven't had much experience with it "setups" (in fact, basically, until it happened three times this last year, it had never happened to me before).


Regarding: nice vs. dish rag

So any guy who is nice is a dish rag? I don't buy that. I don't let people walk over me. In fact, I quite often stand up for myself, I just happen to be a nice guy.

I think we need to define our terms. By nice, I simply mean "polite" and "not a jerk," not "pussy."

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Every time I see a good looking woman, I think, "0oooh. There's another one I'll never have!"

Corvette. The louder you scream, the faster I'll go.

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Echinodermata Q. Taft
It Came Upon a Midnight Clearance


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I don't want to take over the discussion with my peculiarities (well, I do, but I'll pretend I don't) but just a couple of observations:

(1) Friends: If a woman is someone I can feel a bond of friendship with, and if I find her at all sexually attractive (which I do in most cases), then I can at least envision the notion of having a relationship with her. (Though in the case of some of my long-time female friends, I already know why it wouldn't work out...) A lot of women I know, though, once they slot a guy in the "friend" compartment, find the very idea of having a relationship with him too weird to contemplate.

In any case, how do you go about turning a friendship into something more? Since a big part of friendship for me is being able to talk honestly, my impulse is to say something like, "Hey, we like each other and are both unattatched -- how about we become a couple?" Strangely, this never works.

(2) Fortunately, I think I am past the age group where women all seem to insist on attatching themselves to the biggest jerks they can find, and are actually open to "nice" guys. But I do agree, there's a difference between "nice" and "doormat." Most any woman will be a little disconcerted by guys who shower them with gifts and defer to them in every way. On the other hand, that doesn't mean being completely inconsiderate, either. Striking that balance for a given woman is tricky; I think even the women here might agree to that.

(3) I'm not aggressive. In a perfect world, women would approach me -- and in fact, my first relationship and two reasonably succesful subsequent "flings" did begin that way. (And the one relationship that came about through my active pursuing it, and the one that failed to come about despite months if not years of trying everything I could think of, were both cases that left lasting negative effects.) But the most recent case of that was about 15 years ago, now. Either women have stopped coming on to me, or I've grown too dense to notice it.

(4) I believe in honesty and openness in a relationship. Unfortunately, this means that it's likely to come out in the early stages that I have a lack of confidence and a fairly negative view of myself in many ways. (There are positives, too, honest. But they seem less important to me.) This, I think, screws me more than anything else, but I don't know what I can possibly do about it. Guys who aren't aggressive, lack confidence, and don't like to play the "salesmanship" game, are, I think, totally screwed when it comes to getting anywhere with women.

(5) And, of course, add in that I like to dress like a girl sometimes, and you see why I lack optimism in the romance department. (As a side note, it would be nice to date a woman who liked to dress as a girl once in a while herself...)

Anyhow, just my particular problems and tips. Good luck to everyone who's looking and hoping.

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http://eqtaft.blogspot.com

Hope for the future! http://www.runobama.com

Posts: 3218 | From: San Diego, CA | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a moderator
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